Keto diet + lots of protein = add muscle???

[Another1]

I read a somewhat similar thread from a while back and everyone seemed to think that you can't gain muscle on Keto or you will gain very little.

I've been working out for over a year now and for the past 5 months I've been hitting it hard every day except Sat. and Sunday.

For the last month (a little over actually) I've been on a very strict super-low carb diet. The most carbs I get in a day probably come from the Optimum Nutrition Whey powder mixed with water that I drink a few times a day.

As of today I've never been stronger and at the same time I've dropped about 20 lbs. I'm still taking my 5g a day of creatine and drinking tons of water so I'm hoping a lot of that was actually body fat and not just water. If so then I can assume that I've put on new muscle. I'm definitely stronger as my lifts have gone up. My energy level is great now as well.

BUT I'm about to start 4 weeks of M1T and 4AD and hit it harder than ever. I don't want to do all this for nothing and make no decent strengh gains.
Is it possible for me to make decent gains if I have a high enough protein intake?

Does it really matter if my body is using fat or carbs for fuel as long as I have good workouts and a high calorie and protein intake?

Thanks.

[Another1]

Nobody?

[Maxgain]

I dont know about the cycle you are going on but normally you cannot gain muscle without having a calorie surplus keto or no keto diet

[Relentless]

you are probably seeing your strength gains continue while low-carbing it because of those whey shakes you're having. I assume you're drinking 'em pre and post workout, yes?

What you're doing is what Lyle Macdonald calls a 'TKD' or Targeted Ketogenic Diet... basically low-carb but with high-GI carbs around a workout specifically to provide energy to lift and to recover. The real trick is avoiding carbs elsewhere as well... especially now that you're a month into it, you may find it harder and harder to stay in keto and often this means you have to reduce carb intake further still..

when doing a TKD myself, I found that I had to shoot for <50g carbs daily to maintain ketosis, and that was including 30g in a preworkout whey shake, leaving only 20g for elsewhere in the diet.

personally, I wouldn't worry about continuing to gain strength or not; if you're cutting, your priority should be what you see in the mirror (i.e. lowering bodyfat). While some people can continue to gain while cutting, I'd consider it a tacit victory if you can minimize strength and size losses while cutting.

I don't know enough about prohormones to say for sure, but I do know that people use actual gear to help them cut, so there's no reason why the 1Test/4AD wouldn't help you achieve your goals.

[galileo]

CNS adaptation is accountable for a lot of one's strength gains. It's not extremely likely that you're putting on muscle unless you are quite overweight. Otherwise, listen to Cal.

[Cardinal]

I am not sure how much protein you consider a lot but. Run the diet with large amounts of protein, say 2g/lb and you may very well knock yourself right out of keto.

That wouldn't be all that different than a moderate diet, say 1g/lb lbm protein and ~100 grams carbs each day. In that case you most definitely might gain muscle, though it would most likely take the form of a slow bulk.

I got this idea essentially from the thread over at bodyrecomposition, comparing very high pro low carb diets and a moderate approach discussed by Lyle and the gang over there.

[Another1]

Cal - you got it. Protein before and after workout mixed with water to avoid all the carbs in milk. Plus creatine, multivitamins, potassium, and fish oil.

One thing I notice is that on my arm day (which was last night) I experience much more pain in my biceps and tris than I used to. I am still able to finish my workout but man it hurts.

I'm about 6'1" and I'm about 198lbs right now so I don't think I'm that overweight. I would like to lose a little bit in my neck and face but other than that I'm fine.

Starting next week when I begin the prohormones I want to gain all the strengh and muscle I can so it looks like I should start working some carbs back into my diet pretty soon. I just don't want to gain any more FAT while gaining muscle. I'll go back to the Keto or TKD after this cycle is done and just run like a madman I guess :)

Thanks for all the good info everyone.
Another1