Do you see a problem taking all of these?

[_8_Ball]

Hey guys,

Just wanted to get your opinion on this:

I am currently on a slow cut and working out 4 times a week. I was wondering if you see a problem talking all the following vits.

8:00 - Vit C 500mg
10:00 - GNC Mega Man Multi-Vit. + Vit C 500mg
12:00 - B-Complex 100 + Vit C 500mg
4:00 - Will be taking BCAA pre-workout.
5:00 - 5:30 BCAA post workout with PW drink and 5mg Creatine.
9:00 - 500mg to 1000mg VitC.

Do you think I'm over doing it? I might lower the Vit C by removing 10:00's cap....

Most of all the other Vit's are taken with meals.

Also... I've been feeling really tired in the last few months, even when I take a break from the gym and get 6.5+ hours of sleep. I'm not streesed so that should not be an issue.. Any ideas? I eat about 2,250 cals, with HI Pro and lower Carbs / Fat... My worst time is right after work during the bus ride home from 3:00 to 4:00 I tend to get extremly sleepy and almost fall alsleep...

The obvious is "Sleep more dumb*****" :-) ...

thx,

_8_

[defcon]

Whats your stats? maybe work is tiring you out? eat more carbs during work maybe.. im not a big brain on vit's but i say take out some vit.C ..

[geoffgarcia]

how much fat are you taking in?
are you getting enough omega 3's?

why so much vitamin c?
60mg is 100% of the US RDA
yet your taking in a total of 2800mg (300 in the mega man)
for a whopping total of 4666% of the US RDA

[geoffgarcia]

8ball, i recommend getting a diet tracking software for your pc.
Dietorganizer.com is EXCELLENT and tracks all your intake in both macro and micro nutrients! so it'll tell you how much vitamin c your getting from food alone!
Then you can supplement what you feel is lacking...IMHO a multi a day is more than enough! I have a bottle of Centrum Performance that I take (till the bottle wears out then I'll go down to regular centrum!)

if your only taking in that amount of fat its no wonder your feeling tired.
Fat is linked to testosterone production and "feeling tired" is something I tend to notice in myself when my fat/test levels are outta whack!

you should aim for .6g of fat per lb of bodyweight so somewhere in the 100g area would be best for you.
For EFA's you should shoot for 10-20g of fish oil IMHO (~3-6g of EPA/DHA) ...make up the rest w/ olive oil, nuts, or...periodically flax...


If you take a lot of vitamin C and stop taking it suddenly, your liver will take it out of your immune system leaving you vulnerable to infection.
http://www.americanfreepress.net/Alternative_Health/17_02%20HS%20How%20Much%20Vitamin%20C%20Is%20.htm



According to a study of the University of Southern California (U.S.A.), people who assume more than 500 milligrams of Vitamin C integrators each day, increase the risk of developing arteriosclerosis.
http://www.planetfunds.com/english/articles_en.asp?idarticolo=263


"...dietary supplementation of 500mg [milligrams]...[vitamin C] daily (i.e., a common commercial dose) to healthy volunteers for 4-6 weeks causes substantial oxidative DNA damage in circulating lymphocytes [a form of white blood cell.]

http://www.healthbulletin.org/vitamins/vitamins18.htm

[_8_Ball]

One last quesiton.

Does Vit C interfere with my B-Complex? should they be taken seperately?

[geoffgarcia]

I just use google search to find all this info btw!
but I haven't found anything saying they interfere with each other!
but this info is interesting!:


Vitamin B
Prolonged use of isolated B vitamins at high levels may induce a deficiency in some of the other B vitamins.

High intakes of vitamin B Complex can cause stomach cramps, nausea and diarrhoea.

Vitamin B1 above 75mg daily must be supervised by a doctor in patients with diabetes and larger intakes (700-800mg) may cause drowsiness.

Vitamin B2 commonly causes a bright yellowing of the urine with larger intakes possibly affecting laboratory blood tests.

Vitamin B3 (niacinamide) intake above 100mg may aggravate stomach ulcers, glaucoma and diabetes with doses of one gram and above causing impairment of liver function in some individuals.

Niacin intake above 100mg daily may cause a temporary flushing sensation.

Vitamin B6 in large levels over 100mg daily for a long period may cause numbness in hands and feet together with headaches (peripheral neuritis)

Vitamin B6 above 20-30mg daily should be used only under supervision in pregnancy.

High intakes of folic acid may mask vitamin B12 deficiency and vice versa.

Vitamin B12 in high levels (mg doses) should be avoided in pregnancy and in children under the age of twelve unless clinically indicated.

Vitamin C
High intake can cause diarrhoea, stomach cramps and flatulence.

Avoid supplementing over 1 gram of vitamin C daily if using the contraceptive pill.

Vitamin C as ascorbic acid may aggravate stomach ulcers if used in high levels.

Long-term use of ascorbic acid at high intake levels may deplete calcium, magnesium and potassium.

Potassium ascorbate is contra-indicated in kidney disease and hyperkalemia.

High intakes of vitamin C may interfere with some cytotoxic drugs used in cancer therapy.

Medical advice should be taken if individuals are on drug therapy before taking large doses of vitamin C and before blood tests.
http://www.health4youonline.com/health_supplements_biocare_b173.htm

[_8_Ball]

I am only using 1 B-Complex 100 a day, and it's during lunch... so some Vit C a multi-vitamin and a B-Complex so not be overdosing on anything...

What do you think?

[geoffgarcia]

I honestly don't know much about vitamins...I was just doing some searches on google and posting the interesting info I found...I don't know squat about the subject!
so your guess would be as good as mine!
why do you feel you need to supplement your diet with extra vitamins though?

I posted above (when I edited/reconciled all my posts) that you might benefit from a diet tracking tool to monitor what you eat and what nutrients your lacking in your diet.
Best of luck to you though!

PS I'm a computer geek too! no wonder we both have all this free time! *hahahh*
I'm a programmer/developer

[_8_Ball]

I was just reading that talking IRON might help the "feeling tired all the time" feeling.

I will try to add EFAs to my diet first, and see what happends...

[Maxgain]

geoff garcia i dont know where your study was taken from but heres one i foound



Oxidative DNA damage estimated by oxo8dG in the liver of guinea-pigs supplemented with graded dietary doses of ascorbic acid and alpha-tocopherol.

Cadenas S, Barja G, Poulsen HE, Loft S.

Department of Pharmacology, Panum Institute, University of Copenhagen, Copenhagen N, Denmark.

Dietary antioxidants may influence cancer risk and aging by modifying oxidative damage. The effect of graded dietary doses of the antioxidant vitamins C and E on oxidative DNA damage was studied in the liver of guinea-pigs under normal conditions. Like human beings, guinea-pigs cannot synthesize ascorbate and alpha-tocopherol. In one experiment, three groups of 6-8 guinea-pigs were fed diets containing 15 mg of vitamin E/kg chow and three different amounts of vitamin C (33,660 or 13,200 mg/kg) for 5 weeks. In a second experiment, three groups of seven guinea-pigs were fed diets containing 660 mg of vitamin C/kg and three different amounts of vitamin E (15, 150 or 1500 mg/kg) for 5 weeks. The three graded levels of each vitamin respectively represent marginal deficiency, an optimum supplementation and a megadose. Oxidative damage to liver DNA was estimated by measuring 8-oxo-7,8-dihydro-2'-deoxyguanosine (oxo8dG) referred to deoxyguanosine (dG) by means of high-performance liquid chromatography with simultaneous electrochemical-coulometric and ultraviolet detection. The level of ascorbate in the liver was 0.034 +/- 0.051, 1.63 +/- 1.06 and 1.99 +/- 0.44 micromol/g in the low, medium and high dose ascorbate groups (59-fold variation). The liver concentration of alpha-tocopherol was 28 +/- 11, 63 +/- 18 and 187 +/- 34 nmol/g in the low, medium and high dose alpha-tocopherol groups (7-fold variation). The level of oxo8dG in the liver DNA was 1.89 +/- 0.32, 1.94 +/- 0.78 and 1.93 +/- 0.65 per 10(5) dG in the low, medium and high dose ascorbate groups (no effect: P > 0.05). In the low, medium and high dose alpha-tocopherol groups oxo8dG level in the liver DNA was 2.85 +/- 0.70, 2.74 +/- 0.66 and 2.61 +/- 0.92 per 10(5) dG (no effect: P > 0.05). It is concluded that even very large variations in the content of the antioxidant vitamins C and E in the diet and liver have no influence on the steady-state level of oxidative damage to guanine in the liver DNA of normal unstressed guinea-pigs.

[defcon]

I was just reading that talking IRON might help the "feeling tired all the time" feeling.

I will try to add EFAs to my diet first, and see what happends...

Ive been told that iron helps with tiredness.. some foods rich in Iron almost all meat, i think its higher in red meat? Nuts are also good, along with green veggies. . So you may give that a try also.

[Sir Foxx]

Only take iron if you're anemic otherwise it could be harmful to your heart. A protein, meat rich diet provides plenty of iron, not including what you get in daily multivit.

[Shao-LiN]

I've seen people take upwards of 3g of Vitamin C. I think I remember Lyle McD mentioning he takes around 3g of Vit C a day.

[Optimum08]

3g sounds a bit steep, i usually take 1000mg(2 caps) in tha morn wit breakfast and 1000mg wit dinner, wit a multi both times...

[mmckinley]

Spinach is awesome for iron among other things. I recommend Superfoods RX by Steven Pratt. It teaches you about vitamins and minerals/antioxidants etc and also some foods that have a lot of good stuff. I found it at borders.

[Holto]

the US RDI's for vitamins are the BARE MINNIMUM to prevent disease like scurvy

you can't base anything on them

4000 C is not alot for someone who trains and creates more oxidative stress than the average couch potatoe

[_8_Ball]

This is exactly what I mean, one person will say more then 500mg is bad for ya, then other others will say 2000 is "ok" it's hard to figure out what is better.

I realize, I should use what "works for me", but how is one to know? I mean I almost never get sick.... mabye the Vit C helped...

Who knows... ?? :)

[Exnor]

IMO, that is a stupendously high amount of vitamin C within such a short period. You will urinate most of that out.

[geoffgarcia]

This is exactly what I mean, one person will say more then 500mg is bad for ya, then other others will say 2000 is "ok" it's hard to figure out what is better.
Show me one study that says its ok, healthy or beneficial to take in over 1g

the people that take more do it based on their opinions....

[Holto]

Show me one study that says its ok, healthy or beneficial to take in over 1g

do we have studies that show it's not OK ?

good lord 1g is nothing for someone that eats alot of fruit...

[geoffgarcia]

do we have studies that show it's not OK ?

there were several posted above....and a simple search on google returns plenty of them. Just put in:
study, studies
harmful, negative
impact
vitamin c

[Holto]

thanks Geoff...

[Holto]

Geoff:

not trying to be rude but the most convincing thing you posted was this

"Dr. Pauling reported that he took 18 grams of it every day and he lived to be over 90"

from your first link...

I'm still looking

I cant believe the major companies that make 1G tabs...nutraceuticals etc...

[geoffgarcia]

not trying to be rude but the most convincing thing you posted was this

nah, not rude at all!
I have no emotional attachment to this, the stuff I posted was just from my queries for negative impact...its possible there are some positive benefits...and I would love to know if there are!

[dxiw]

way way way too high

a good 20 studies show that vitamin C above 500mg actually has a harmful impact in that it becomes pro free radical .. should take 400-500mg a day...oh and the RDA is 60mg... so your already taking nearly 10 times...taking outrageous amounts like 4000 is simply stupid... and same with the other vitamins don't over do it.. too much can have really nasty side effects

most important are B complex vitamins - give lots of energy

[Spartacus]

i don't think we know enough about how antioxidants to rule out prooxidant nature of some as a bad thing.

here is an article with various perspectives http://www.1fast400.com/?ingredients_id=45