Are Protein Supplements Nessecary?

[Boardwalk]

Reponse sent to me about a query I had concerning whether or not I should be taking a protein supplement such as straight Whey while lifting.

Just want to know how accurate it is.

Many athletes think that they need to consume additional protein in order to increase their muscular strength and lean-body mass and, for that reason, take protein supplements. A number of studies have shown that the protein needs of active individuals may be higher than those of their inactive counterparts. But this need has been drastically exaggerated and overrated by health-food manufacturers and promoters.

The fact of the matter is that individuals who consume adequate calories generally obtain sufficient protein. An individual’s caloric requirements are determined by several factors including size and level of activity. Larger, more active individuals require and consume more calories than the average person. With these additional calories comes additional protein. In other words, the increased protein need of active individuals is met by an increased caloric intake. Dr. Gail Butterfield, a registered dietician and fellow of the American College of Sports Medicine, stated, “I am not convinced that even with the initiation of a [strength-training] program that protein requirement is increased as long as [caloric] intake is increased.”

For adults, the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram of bodyweight per day (g/kg/day). Assuming a sufficient caloric intake, 1.2 - 2.0 g/kg/day (about 150 - 250% of the RDA for adults) is present in any mixed diet that contains 15% of its calories as protein. According to a formula from the U. S. Department of Agriculture, a 180-pound athlete must consume 4,680 cal/day [180 lb x 26/cal/lb/day = 4,680 cal/day] in order to maintain his bodyweight. If 15% of these calories came from protein – a conservative estimate for most American males – he would be receiving 702 calories from protein or 175.5 grams [702 cal ÷ 4 cal/g]. Based upon the RDA of 0.8 g/kg/day, this person would be consuming enough protein to meet the daily needs of a man who weighed a little more than 482 pounds [175.5 g/day ÷ 0.8g/kg/day x 2.2 lb/kg = 482.625 lb]. This amount of protein is actually about 2.15 g/kg/day – or about 2.5 times the RDA. And remember, this is without the athlete making any effort to consume extra protein. So even if the requirement for active individuals may be greater, it’s likely that they’re already consuming enough protein to ensure proper levels of consumption. If you are concerned that he isn’t getting enough protein in is diet, he can obtain sufficient amounts by simply consuming more foods that are high in protein.

While on the subject, understand that an excessive intake of protein carries the potential for numerous unwanted side effects. An intake of protein that’s in excess of his needs for growth, maintenance and repair of tissue is either stored as fat or excreted in the urine. When excessive protein is urinated, it places a heavy burden on the liver and kidneys and may damage those organs. An excessive intake of protein also increases the risk of dehydration which, in turn, increases the risk of developing a heat-related disorder such as heat exhaustion, heat stroke or heat cramps. Other potential side effects from a high intake of protein include an excessive loss of calcium in the urine, diarrhea, cramps and gastrointestinal upset.

[Saint Patrick]

Protein supplements aren't necessary.

However bodybuilders need a higher-than-the-average-joe protein intake. Protein powders make it easier to achieve this.

I take in about 4 times the FDA recommended protein intake and I've never had any gastrointestinal problems.

I'd like to see the muscle size of the person who wrote that article.

[Optimum08]

:withstupi

[EdgarMex]

Pretty much what Patty said. As long as you're getting enought proteing from food you don't need any protein supps.

[Deathwish]

The reason I take protein supplements is because they're quick clean sources of protein. But if you don't have that problem then no need to take them.

I always thought the RDA standard was 12 cals/lb/day for someone on a diet and 15 if they're not...

[Focused]

well im just a average guy trying to get a little muscle..i have no desire of being a pro bodybuilder...so i guess i was wasting time with these protein supps alll the time?

[Deathwish]

No not necessarily. I eat protein bars if I have the money because they're easy to eat and because the ones I have taste good. The only supps I would take are Glutamine and Vitamines.

[TrevorN]

well unless you wanna eat 5 burgers and 10 chicked breasts per day :)

ive been injesting about 150g of protein per day just with shakes and its helping tonnes.

[Ebu]

Yeah, the shakes are all about ease. It beats making 12 scrambled eggs everytime you wanna have some protein. It's just ease of preperation man.

[Boardwalk]

I apologize, I guess what I was trying to get out of you all, was are his numbers on point in terms of how much protein one should be eating per day?

[Exnor]

I believe most experts say around 1gram per pound of bodyweight for weight lifting. Most people here I think recomment 1.5 - 2g. There has been much discussion on this subject, use the search feature on the forums.

Also check this article: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/proteinrda.php

[chris mason]

a) Who exactly sent you this "response"?

b) Read this article: http://www.atlargenutrition.com/proteinrda.php

No, protein supplementation is not "necessary". Plenty of men were able to get big and strong way before protein supplements were widely available. Protein supplements are an easier, lower total calorie way in which to increase your protein intake.

After you have read the article, let me know if you have any further questions.

[aka23]

Reponse sent to me about a query I had concerning whether or not I should be taking a protein supplement such as straight Whey while lifting.
As others have stated protein supplements are not necessary, so long as dietary protein is sufficient. I think there is little evidence that protein from suppelements is superior to dietary protein, and protein needs can easily be met by dietary protein.

Just want to know how accurate it is.
I think the article is full of inaccurate and misleading statements. I will go into more detail below.

For adults, the Recommended Dietary Allowance (RDA) for protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram of bodyweight per day (g/kg/day).
The RDAs are generally set at 2 SD above the average nutrient needs of healthy, sedentary persons. They do not apply to persons doing strenuous physical activity (such as weightliftting). This is clearly stated in Recommended Daily Allowances (RDA) by the National Research Council.

Assuming a sufficient caloric intake, 1.2 - 2.0 g/kg/day (about 150 - 250% of the RDA for adults) is present in any mixed diet that contains 15% of its calories as protein. According to a formula from the U. S. Department of Agriculture, a 180-pound athlete must consume 4,680 cal/day [180 lb x 26/cal/lb/day = 4,680 cal/day] in order to maintain his bodyweight.
Such formulas often do not work well due to variations in metabolism and activity level, but I think 26xBW is far too high for the majority of amateur bodybuilders. If you must use a formula, some ones that I think are more accurate are listed at http://www.hypertrophy-specific.com/HSreport/iss04/index.html#art_1 and http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html . I would instead recommend slowly adjusting calories until you are gaining or losing weight at your desired rate.

Many athletes think that they need to consume additional protein in order to increase their muscular strength and lean-body mass and, for that reason, take protein supplements. A number of studies have shown that the protein needs of active individuals may be higher than those of their inactive counterparts. But this need has been drastically exaggerated and overrated by health-food manufacturers and promoters.
This is one of the few statements that I agree with. Some good example studies are the ones done by Lemon, such as the following:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1400008&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=9841962&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3356636&dopt=Abstract

Dr. Gail Butterfield, a registered dietician and fellow of the American College of Sports Medicine, stated, “I am not convinced that even with the initiation of a [strength-training] program that protein requirement is increased as long as [caloric] intake is increased.”.
I took a nutrition class taught by the late Dr. Butterfield at Stanford in which she discussed the studies which led her to this conclusion. She suggested that protein needs are increased during the start of strength training, as might occur with beginners making rapid gains. The needs drop to a more normal level over longer periods. She discusses this in the study at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=3316915&dopt=Abstract among others. I would agree that in many cases, the increased calorie level would meet the increased protein needs. Due to the large variations in metabolism, activity level, diet, and speed of gains (especially with AS users); I believe that there are also many cases in which the needs would not be met by increased calorie intake. I would suggest doing a simple check at fitday to see if you are meeting the levels suggested by Lemon as a minimum, which is significantly higher than the RDA for sedentary persons.

While on the subject, understand that an excessive intake of protein carries the potential for numerous unwanted side effects. An intake of protein that’s in excess of his needs for growth, maintenance and repair of tissue is either stored as fat or excreted in the urine. When excessive protein is urinated, it places a heavy burden on the liver and kidneys and may damage those organs. An excessive intake of protein also increases the risk of dehydration which, in turn, increases the risk of developing a heat-related disorder such as heat exhaustion, heat stroke or heat cramps. Other potential side effects from a high intake of protein include an excessive loss of calcium in the urine, diarrhea, cramps and gastrointestinal upset.
Much of the information above is misleading. A large portion of protein is deanimated into nitrogen and a carbon skeleton. Only the nitrogen component is excreted in the urine. The carbon skeletons are primarily converted to glucose and used for energy. Very little is directly strored as fat. However, the excess protein calories indirectly lead to fat accumulation. People have been consuming high protein diets for decades, and few have experienced most of the effects listed above. There is little risk or liver or kidney problems unless one has a preexisting medical conditions. Calcium loss usually occurs when high protein is combined with inadequate dietary calcium (as is common in many amateur bodybuilder’s diets). Calcium gain usually occurs when high protein is combined with adequate dietary calcium.

[Boardwalk]

Edit: Just saw the big above post, it might answer my questions below.
don't have time to read it now, will get to it soon.


The response was sent to me by a strength coach at a D1 University.

And as for the link you both sent me, it is interesting and informative.

I have three 'issues' with it though.

First, the author who wrote it is trying to sell protein from that website.
Second, his rather vague citing is worrysome.
Third, he continously refers to the RDA and others as "Anti-Protein." Why would anyone be so adamantly against protein??
Could someone shoot me in the direction of an argument against 2.0g being nessecary?

Thanks for the help.

[chris mason]

As you find a lack or references worrysome, please name the strength coach who sent you the response.

Why would anyone be so anti-protein? Good question, why would anyone be so against the supplement sellers in general? I suppose a simple answer to that might be that supplements companies have historically used misleading practices to sell their wares. There have been and continue to be a lot of charletans in the supplement business. Thus, individuals in the government see it as necessary to "protect" the consumer. These individuals then seek the advice of scientists and others. It is then quite natural for them to promote the advice of those who are against the basics of nutritional supplementation, those who think that the standard US diet is perfectly acceptable and that optimal health can be had by following a "normal" diet.

Unfortunately, the more you learn, the more you realize adulthood and real life are more about promoting of ideas and agendas than being concerned with the truth.

So, as I said, protein supplementation is not necessary, but it can be a very helpful and useful tool in one's nutritional arsenal.

Just for your information, I wrote the article you read. Am I trying to sell protein, sure I am, but I try to do so in as truthful and rational a sense as is possible. As I recommended in the article, you should experiment on yourself to determine the optimal protein level in your own diet. If you find that obtaining that optimal level would involve the consumption of excess saturated fats or calories in general, then a protein supplement would be in order.

[chris mason]

Much of the information above is misleading. A large portion of protein is deanimated into nitrogen and a carbon skeleton. Only the nitrogen component is excreted in the urine. The carbon skeletons are primarily converted to glucose and used for energy.


This statement needs the caveat that the carbon skeletons will be used for energy only if (more or less) there is an inadequate supply of carbohydrates consumed in the diet.

In other words, the body only needs so much glucose. Excess glucose gets stored as glycogen or as fat. If your intake of carbs is sufficient to fill your energy and glycogen storage needs, then (over time) the balance will be stored as fat. Please note I said "over time".

[aka23]

This statement needs the caveat that the carbon skeletons will be used for energy only if (more or less) there is an inadequate supply of carbohydrates consumed in the diet.

In other words, the body only needs so much glucose. Excess glucose gets stored as glycogen or as fat. If your intake of carbs is sufficient to fill your energy and glycogen storage needs, then (over time) the balance will be stored as fat. Please note I said "over time".

We have had this discussion in another thread. According to Jungas' research, the carbon skeleton is primarily converted to glucose in normal conditions, including high carb intake. I meant that the glucose or stored glycogen will be eventually used for energy. One generally needs to eat a massive amount of carbohydrates/protein for the body to convert a signifcant amount of carbs directly to fat. Excess calories cause an increase in fat through a different dietary mechanism involving altering fuel mixtures and storage so that more dietary fat is stored and less fat is burned. When glycogen stores are high a larger portion of the body's energy needs are derived from glycogen stores and a smaller portion from fat. In this way excess calories cause an increase in fat balance over time regardless of their macronutrient source. Note that I said, "However, the excess protein calories indirectly lead to fat accumulation." in my earlier post.

[chris mason]

Right, I wasn't trying to argue the point, only clarify. I didn't think it was necessarily clear (from your post) to the average Joe that any excess calories will result in increased fat stores over the course of time.