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TiGeR AK
03-06-2004, 12:23 AM
anybody care to disagree with me?

this whole mystical, magical, wonderful number - "ONE GRAM PER LB OF BODYWEIGHT"

i personally think it's overkill and definitely not necessary, even for bodybuilders.

i think sometimes people get too infatuated with reaching this magical number that they take in too many calories, and end up gaining a lot of unintended bodyfat.

i've noticed that phenomenon myself.. trying desperately to take in 190-200 g of protein for my bodyweight.. and just getting flabby over time.

i have since decreased my protein intake to a more sensible 120-150 g (this was not at all easy to do.. trust me) I felt like i was gonna shrink into a pile of bones.. but i kept the calories a little bit lower, and have noticed that i have slimmed down, but not lost a step in any of my lifts or in muscle mass.

It might be just me.. but i don't think it's necessary to take in quite as much protein as advertised.. in fact, in some way, i think it's a ploy by protein/supplement companies to encourage people to intake more protein and, thus, purchase more supplements.. leaking out reports that "1g/1lb" is the magic number.

any thoughts on the issue?

TheGimp
03-06-2004, 06:03 AM
Personally I think you may well be right. Bear in mind however that the actual recommended value is 0.8g / lb of body weight and is rounded up to 1g for convenience. Also besides its use in building muscle it's thought that protein might be good for appetite satisfaction and could in fact be the real reason for the success of the Atkins diet, rather than ketosis.

defcon
03-06-2004, 07:12 AM
Personally I think you may well be right. Bear in mind however that the actual recommended value is 0.8g / lb of body weight and is rounded up to 1g for convenience. Also besides its use in building muscle it's thought that protein might be good for appetite satisfaction and could in fact be the real reason for the success of the Atkins diet, rather than ketosis.

Agree, most people that are new to lifting over estimate the power of protein, but I still aim for 1g/lb just because I like to make sure my body has enough. I know its unnecessary, but I do it anyway.

TiGeR AK
03-06-2004, 03:16 PM
i think the body can only assimilate SO much protein. the rest seems to go to waste.

chris mason
03-06-2004, 03:27 PM
Protein is not a magical substance that will make you huge in and of itself.

If you are deficient in protein you will retard your workouts. I prefer to err on the side of safety.

For many years I thought protein intake was no big deal and I often ate less than 100 grams at 220 + in bodyweight. I have since learned that increasing my intake of protein has improved recovery and allowed me to make new progress in the gym.

WillKuenzel
03-06-2004, 03:29 PM
Sounds like you were just eating too much and needed to cut the calories down. I can eat close to 400g of protein a day and don't get flabby or anything. There's been tons of studies done but no magical number of how much protein the body can absorb and use has really been found. Personally I don't mind eating lots of protein, because I love meat and it doesn't bother me. Pasta and carbs just aren't my thing so I eat more protein. What does it boil down to? Calories in = calories out. Bigger guys will need more. Smaller guys need less. Don't over-complicate things.

Saint Patrick
03-06-2004, 03:49 PM
Agree w/ HY.

Tiger AK - can you give us any proof that 1g/lb is BAD for you? I'm eating about 1.2g per lb of BW and I've had good results with it.

But hey, if you can make gains 120-150g, whatever works for you, dude.

NateWheeler
03-06-2004, 05:39 PM
I most definitely disagree..

protein BUILDS muscle!
more protein the more muscle building...

Yes you can eat too much though (and you'll probably develop kidney stones)

More protein is scientifically proven to build more muscle, its a FACT!

Yes, maybe the amount you eat builds plenty of muscle for you, but I am willing to bet if YOU ate more, you would build MORE muscle!

take a look at MANY of the articles on www.ast-ss.com - that site is the best site every created when it comes to supplements, info, research, articles, training programs, proper form, etc etc etc.

I live by that site..

_-_v_-_
03-06-2004, 05:51 PM
Wow.

That's certainly an objective outlook you have there.

Jasonl
03-06-2004, 06:02 PM
I agree that 1g per lb is just more of a convenience thing, but it work for most people. I think that 1g per lb of LBM is more important, but since most people don't know exactly what that is, we just do it the ole' fashoned way.:)

NateWheeler
03-06-2004, 06:07 PM
http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=54

Just read this article from WBB..

thought maybe you may want to read it

smalls
03-06-2004, 06:59 PM
[QUOTE=TiGeR AK]
i personally think it's overkill and definitely not necessary, even for bodybuilders.

i think sometimes people get too infatuated with reaching this magical number that they take in too many calories, and end up gaining a lot of unintended bodyfat.

i've noticed that phenomenon myself.. trying desperately to take in 190-200 g of protein for my bodyweight.. and just getting flabby over time.

QUOTE]

I cant imagine getting 190g of protein would throw you over you maintanence calories. You can get high amounts of protein without overeating, lots of us do it.
But I do agree that there is no need to take in huge amounts of protein to gain muscle, or even to retain muscle while dieting. That being said I would much rather err on the side of caution. I never go below 300g while dieting.

TiGeR AK
03-06-2004, 07:35 PM
Agree w/ HY.

Tiger AK - can you give us any proof that 1g/lb is BAD for you? I'm eating about 1.2g per lb of BW and I've had good results with it.

But hey, if you can make gains 120-150g, whatever works for you, dude.

oh no.. i'm not saying it's bad at all.

i'm just saying that i don't think it's absolutely NECESSARY to get quite the amount that people claim.


I'm sure it's great to eat that much.. but for me, i haven't noticed any ill effects from eating a little bit less.. that's all.

HemiVision
03-07-2004, 02:06 AM
protein BUILDS muscle!
more protein the more muscle building...

This is not true. Your body only requires a certain amount of protein, and anything you intake beyond that amount is only going to be broken down by your kidneys.


take a look at MANY of the articles on www.ast-ss.com - that site is the best site every created when it comes to supplements, info, research, articles, training programs, proper form, etc etc etc.)

I'd be cautious about using a site that sells supplements as a guide to how much should be consumed.

Shao-LiN
03-07-2004, 02:25 AM
I don't have a problem eating upwards of 1.5 g/lb of protein or so and still being under maintenance. Your problem lies in the balance of the other macros. If you're trying to eat more protein and not adjusting the other macros accordingly, then you may tip over maintenance, and of course you'll gain weight. I agree that 1 g/lb is more of a convenience estimate, but it is definately a very helpful one.

thanky0ujesus
03-07-2004, 04:06 AM
i dont see how you can eat only 150 grams of protein. i weight 160 and i can easily eat 250g of protein in a day without even trying. and thats with a 40/30/30. a chicken breast has like 70 g of protein in it already and thats just one meal of the day. for convenient sake.. lets just round to 2g/lb :thumbup:

thetopdog
03-07-2004, 04:17 AM
i dont see how you can eat only 150 grams of protein. i weight 160 and i can easily eat 250g of protein in a day without even trying. and thats with a 40/30/30. a chicken breast has like 70 g of protein in it already and thats just one meal of the day. for convenient sake.. lets just round to 2g/lb :thumbup:

I think you're overestimating the amount of protein in your foods if you think a chicken breast has 70g of protein in it. Unless you're eating huge chicken breasts

In unrelated news...I ate 7 (small) chicken breasts tonight :cool:

thanky0ujesus
03-07-2004, 04:35 AM
i count calories from the nutritional facts, i weight my foods using a scale, and i input them into Fitday. Pretty accurate, and yeah.. i like huge breasts..

restless
03-07-2004, 04:37 AM
I agree that 1g per lb is just more of a convenience thing, but it work for most people. I think that 1g per lb of LBM is more important, but since most people don't know exactly what that is, we just do it the ole' fashoned way.:)

Exactly.

cwm
03-07-2004, 11:42 AM
What i never really understood with the 1g per 1 pound rule is that i would think a person at 5'7 190 lbs and 8% BF would need more protein then someone like me who is 6'2 190lbs and 17% BF. I am not big and im wondering if 190g's a day is a necesisty. When i consume protien i usually eat it with WW bread. I am just worried i am over doing it for some one who does not have that much muscle.

smalls
03-07-2004, 12:13 PM
This is not true. Your body only requires a certain amount of protein, and anything you intake beyond that amount is only going to be broken down by your kidneys.



I'd be cautious about using a site that sells supplements as a guide to how much should be consumed.


Um what? Please explain to me how the body will "break down" excess protein. Into what? And will this be utilized or just excreted by the body?

restless
03-07-2004, 12:43 PM
What i never really understood with the 1g per 1 pound rule is that i would think a person at 5'7 190 lbs and 8% BF would need more protein then someone like me who is 6'2 190lbs and 17% BF. I am not big and im wondering if 190g's a day is a necesisty. When i consume protien i usually eat it with WW bread. I am just worried i am over doing it for some one who does not have that much muscle.

That's why the guidelines are 1 gr per pound of LBM.

TiGeR AK
03-07-2004, 01:37 PM
you can only assimilate a certain amount of protein.. and the rest is waste, and excreted through the urine/feces.

your body has limits.. you can't utilize every single gram of it, if you are taking in a lot of protein.

like they say.. only about 25-30 g of protein can be absorbed per sitting.. every 3 hours. the rest will just come right out.

dxiw
03-07-2004, 01:45 PM
i definitely agree - too much protein is stressful on the major organs and most of us eat more than neccessary anyways

medically for inactive people they eat 0.8/1g per KG of BW, for weightlifters it should be 1.2g-1.4g/KG of BW. Anymore than that is not only not going to be used, but can in the long term lead to severe kidney and heart problems. Just ask the really buff 50yr old guys in kidney dialysis with renal failure. At a BW of about 200lb, you need about 110-130g per day.. nothing more.. aside from health effects, the extra protein might just make u fat... oh and I have proof - my uncle is 235lb at 8%bf benches well over 300 and eats 100g per day...my friend is 225lb at 10% bf and is VEGETARIAN!!! you really don't need all this excess protein - its a game for supplement companies to make money - why do you think the FDA recommends 59g for the average healthy person??? just think and stop making supplement companies rich...all the extra protein excreted through urine is only stressing the kidneys more and more... I have been eating around 120g for the past 4 weeks and i am not only getting leaner but making better lift increases then when i used to eat 220g a day (before my 2 doctors told me about the negative effects)...please before you hurt yourself do some medical research there are many medical textbooks that advise against high protein stupidity..

too little is bad and too much is bad, but if you ever have protein in the urine that extremely bad - proteinurea is a sign of kidney damage - ask any true doctor...and 0.8g/lb of LBM sounds good I mean take our 200lb 15% bf guy he has 170lb of LBM and x 0.8 he eats around 136g protein.

HemiVision
03-07-2004, 02:54 PM
Um what? Please explain to me how the body will "break down" excess protein. Into what? And will this be utilized or just excreted by the body?

The difference between a protein molecule and a carbohydrate or fat molecule is the presence of nitrogen. When you've ingested more protein than your body needs, the liver removes this nitrogen from it so the remaining parts of the molecule can be used for calories. The leftover nitrogen is excreted by the kidneys.

NateWheeler
03-07-2004, 07:51 PM
This is not true. Your body only requires a certain amount of protein, and anything you intake beyond that amount is only going to be broken down by your kidneys.



I'd be cautious about using a site that sells supplements as a guide to how much should be consumed.


LOL..

Besides the fact thats incorrect. Remember just exactly WHAT were doing here. We are LIFTING WEIGHTS. When you do this, it brakes the muscle tissue down. In order to regrow and build bigger, it needs protein. Why you ask? Because PROTEIN BUILDS MUSCLE. However, if you werent lifting, I would definitely say that the amount required is significantly less. But since LIFTING is the name of the game, your gonna need MORE PROTEIN

Another thing.. lets say you are taking in plenty of protein and more than enough for rebuilding muscle tissue, there are PLENTY of other actions that excess protein can take, it doesnt just get thrown away.

TiGeR AK
03-08-2004, 04:07 AM
i definitely agree - too much protein is stressful on the major organs and most of us eat more than neccessary anyways

medically for inactive people they eat 0.8/1g per KG of BW, for weightlifters it should be 1.2g-1.4g/KG of BW. Anymore than that is not only not going to be used, but can in the long term lead to severe kidney and heart problems. Just ask the really buff 50yr old guys in kidney dialysis with renal failure. At a BW of about 200lb, you need about 110-130g per day.. nothing more.. aside from health effects, the extra protein might just make u fat... oh and I have proof - my uncle is 235lb at 8%bf benches well over 300 and eats 100g per day...my friend is 225lb at 10% bf and is VEGETARIAN!!! you really don't need all this excess protein - its a game for supplement companies to make money - why do you think the FDA recommends 59g for the average healthy person??? just think and stop making supplement companies rich...all the extra protein excreted through urine is only stressing the kidneys more and more... I have been eating around 120g for the past 4 weeks and i am not only getting leaner but making better lift increases then when i used to eat 220g a day (before my 2 doctors told me about the negative effects)...please before you hurt yourself do some medical research there are many medical textbooks that advise against high protein stupidity..

too little is bad and too much is bad, but if you ever have protein in the urine that extremely bad - proteinurea is a sign of kidney damage - ask any true doctor...and 0.8g/lb of LBM sounds good I mean take our 200lb 15% bf guy he has 170lb of LBM and x 0.8 he eats around 136g protein.

thanks for your input.. it pretty much follows my own personal observations and hypotheses.

geoffgarcia
03-08-2004, 08:02 AM
a chicken breast has like 70 g of protein in it
is that 1lb chicken breast?

Minotaur
03-08-2004, 08:07 AM
is that 1lb chicken breast?

Probably a whole breast, both sides. The prepacked and deboned chicken breasts are one half of a breast and usually have average 30g of protein. So a whole breast could have 70g of protein.

RomeoJunior
03-08-2004, 09:39 AM
....you mentioned that you were trying to lose weight.

<<<<< have since decreased my protein intake to a more sensible 120-150 g (this was not at all easy to do.. trust me) I felt like i was gonna shrink into a pile of bones.. but i kept the calories a little bit lower, and have noticed that i have slimmed down, but not lost a step in any of my lifts or in muscle mass.>>>>>


slimming down (losing weight),...has NOTHING to do with how much protein you take in, or fat or any other calories for that matter. It is as simple as the # of calories you take in a day compared to the number of calories your body burned that day. If your body burned more than you consumed, no matter what types they are, you will lose weight. It'd be smart to ingest enough protein as you're working out to keep your muscle on and burn fat, but that's besides the underlying theme I just stated.

As for me, I'm skinny, and i don't want to just get big for the sake of getting big. I want muscle. Protein ='s muscle.

Protein is not overrated at all,..it's just misunderstood. Nothing magical at all about it or about the calorie expenditure/calorie consumption biological rule.


And with all this powdered stuff we're hawking down... that's true, protein can be stressful inside our bodies if we're not drinking enough water a day with the stuff (clear water), which is a chore i'm not yet fond of myself.

Paul Stagg
03-08-2004, 09:53 AM
you can only assimilate a certain amount of protein.. and the rest is waste, and excreted through the urine/feces.

your body has limits.. you can't utilize every single gram of it, if you are taking in a lot of protein.

like they say.. only about 25-30 g of protein can be absorbed per sitting.. every 3 hours. the rest will just come right out.

This is wrong.

Budiak
03-08-2004, 10:03 AM
Ha!

galileo
03-08-2004, 10:20 AM
This thread is largely full of assumptions based on personal accounts, which are inherently skewed. If you guys want to make this a productive discussion, start pulling in facts, not beliefs.

xxr79xx
03-08-2004, 10:33 AM
Sounds like you were just eating too much and needed to cut the calories down. I can eat close to 400g of protein a day and don't get flabby or anything. There's been tons of studies done but no magical number of how much protein the body can absorb and use has really been found. Personally I don't mind eating lots of protein, because I love meat and it doesn't bother me. Pasta and carbs just aren't my thing so I eat more protein. What does it boil down to? Calories in = calories out. Bigger guys will need more. Smaller guys need less. Don't over-complicate things.
:withstupi

BCC
03-08-2004, 11:03 AM
Galileo is right.

And from personal experience, I made the best gains with 2gs/lb of bodyweight.

smalls
03-08-2004, 11:06 AM
you can only assimilate a certain amount of protein.. and the rest is waste, and excreted through the urine/feces.

your body has limits.. you can't utilize every single gram of it, if you are taking in a lot of protein.

like they say.. only about 25-30 g of protein can be absorbed per sitting.. every 3 hours. the rest will just come right out.

Paul is right, this is horribly wrong.
Please dont give diet/nutrition advice on things you know very little about. And dont believe everthing "they" tell you. Thank you.

Minotaur
03-08-2004, 11:27 AM
Everyone repeates it, but no one has yet come up with the source of the only about 25-30 g of protein can be absorbed per sitting.. every 3 hours. the rest will just come right out. magical number.

hemants
03-08-2004, 01:35 PM
Protein requirements ARE generally overrated.
1.2-1.4g per kg of bodyweight are the most I have seen in a study that was not limited in carbohydrates; basically if you limit carbs, your body makes glucose from protein. So yes you CAN utilize more than 40g at one sitting but probably not towards muscle synthesis.

RomeoJunior
03-09-2004, 09:53 AM
Protein requirements ARE generally overrated.
1.2-1.4g per kg of bodyweight are the most I have seen in a study that was not limited in carbohydrates; basically if you limit carbs, your body makes glucose from protein. So yes you CAN utilize more than 40g at one sitting but probably not towards muscle synthesis.


care to tell us how you know that as a fact? any studies?

hemants
03-09-2004, 12:05 PM
Here are a few citations. But if you were wondering about the 40g per sitting, that is an unkown but a reasonable expectation given daily requirements. I highly doubt the body can build muscle for 2 hours in a day and then spend the other 22 hours doing nothing.

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Sterck, J. G., Ritskes-Hoitinga J., & Beynen, A. C. (1992). Inhibitory effect of high protein intake on nephrocalcinogenesis in female rats. British Journal of Nutrition, 67 (2), 223-233.

Tarnopolsky, M. A., Atkinson, S. A., MacDougall, J. D., Chesley, A., Phillips, S., & Schwarcz, H. P. (1992). Evaluation of protein requirements for trained strength athletes. Journal of Applied Physiology, 73, 1986-1995.

Tarnopolsky, M. A., MacDougall, J. D., Atkinson, S. A., Blimkie, C., & Sale, D. (1986). Dietary protein requirements for body builders vs. sedentary controls [Abstract]. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise, 18, S64.

Tesch, P. A. (1992). Training for bodybuilding. In: P. V. Komi (Ed.), Strength and power in sport (pp. 370-380). Cambridge, MA: Blackwell Science.

Ullrich, I. H., Reid, C. M., & Yeater, R. A. (1987). Increased HDL-cholesterol levels with a weight-lifting program. Southern Medical Journal, 80 (3), 328-331.

Vega, F. & Jackson, R. T. (1995). Dietary habits of body builders and other regular exercisers. Nutrition Research, 16 (1), 3-10.

Walberg, J. L., Leedy, M. K., Sturgill, D. J., Hinkle, D. E., Ritchey, S. J., & Sebolt, D. R. (1988). Macronutrient content of a hypoenergy diet affects nitrogen retention and muscle function in weightlifters. International Journal of Sports Medicine, 9, 261-266.

Wallace, M. B., Moffatt, R. J., Haymes, E. M., & Green, N. R. (1991). Acute effects of resistance exercise on parameters of protein metabolism. Medicine and Science in Sport and Exercise, 23 (2), 199-204.

HemiVision
03-09-2004, 12:17 PM
"Despite what is written in muscle magazines, there is little reason to consume more than 1 gram/lb., IF long as caloric intake is high enough (this is a big if for many people). There is a limit to how much muscle protein can be synthesized in a given time period, and eating more protein is simply converted to glucose."

-- http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/mcdonald/baseline-diet-02.htm

TiGeR AK
03-09-2004, 12:43 PM
Protein requirements ARE generally overrated.
1.2-1.4g per kg of bodyweight are the most I have seen in a study that was not limited in carbohydrates; basically if you limit carbs, your body makes glucose from protein. So yes you CAN utilize more than 40g at one sitting but probably not towards muscle synthesis.

yes.. this is of course wut i meant.

u can absorb the protein.. but u can't assimilate ALL of it towards building muscle.

eating more protein than you need does not cause your body to grow any more muscle than if you would have eaten AT your limit. it's just overkill, and will get broken down by body and partioned into different nutrients.. like carbs, as mentioned before.. or in a very inefficient process, to fat.

i like how there are so many people who want facts/data saying that you don't need 1g/1lb... yet where are THEIR facts saying that you do?

and also.. wut about the fact that protein synthesis slows after about 48 hours after working out.. does this justify taking in copious amounts of protein? as if.. the mere presence of protein will "kickstart" your body into building more muscle?

your body's main goal is homeostasis, and it will never allow too much of anything to get put to use in that way, because it will throw everything out of balance.. there is always some kind of regulation as to how much of a certain process you can accomplish. there are limits to protein intake, where above a certain point you will receive no further benefits.

smalls
03-09-2004, 12:43 PM
"Despite what is written in muscle magazines, there is little reason to consume more than 1 gram/lb., IF long as caloric intake is high enough (this is a big if for many people). There is a limit to how much muscle protein can be synthesized in a given time period, and eating more protein is simply converted to glucose."

-- http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/mcdonald/baseline-diet-02.htm

Yes, converted to glucose and utilized, not wasted. Again, most people would rather err on the side of caution and get more than less. Of coarse calories are the most important factor. IMO.

HemiVision
03-09-2004, 12:54 PM
Yes, converted to glucose and utilized, not wasted. Again, most people would rather err on the side of caution and get more than less. Of coarse calories are the most important factor. IMO.

Depends what you mean by "wasted." The nitrogen is wasted, so what you're intaking as protein isn't all used as protein. I understand erring on the side of caution, but the only result of eating ridiculuous amounts of protein will be liver/kidney damage. It makes a lot more sense to get as close as possible to a properly balanced diet, while still giving yourself a slight margin for error. The idea some posters have that "the more protein the better" is just dangerous.

I suspect anyone who claims to need 2g/lb/day isn't getting enough calories from other sources and their body is making up for it by breaking down protein.

hemants
03-09-2004, 01:04 PM
1g of protein per pound of LBM IS erring on the side of caution.

RomeoJunior
03-10-2004, 01:43 PM
and also.. wut about the fact that protein synthesis slows after about 48 hours after working out.. does this justify taking in copious amounts of protein? as if.. the mere presence of protein will "kickstart" your body into building more muscle?

great great great point!! Now stay with me here,... you are right, extra protein 48 hrs. after a (one) workout will probably not be needed as much as the 48 prior hours.

The smoking gun in this whole argument?

The fact that people like me workout different body parts a good 5 times a week! Not only that,... but my weight lifting is pretty intense,... From what I know, I'm doing alot of muscle damage in all my workouts (otherwise, I don't go).

Now if you aren't working out intensely and working out often thru-out the week, then this info isin't for you. Stick to your low-protein intake views.... but if you do workout intensely (and if you're into body building, why wouldn't you...?),...then tell me what you think of an exerpt from this website (AST) and the doctors and nutritionists they reference that have no ties to them ( like 2. Curr Opin Clin Nutr Metab Care. 5:43-45 2002.)... are they just blowing smoke up our _____'s ??....


How Much Protein? Intake Article, only a week old. (http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=220)
Factors that influence protein requirements . . .
Exactly how much protein a bodybuilder needs to optimize muscle growth is not easy to determine. Individual goals, energy (calorie) intake and exercise intensity, duration and type, as well as training history, gender and age all shape a personís protein requirements.[3] In all honesty, I doubt whether scientists will ever be able to calculate the exact amount of protein each individual requires Ė a testimony to how complex human physiology really is.

However, always remember that the recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for protein (0.8grams/kg/day) does not recognize any increased protein need for a physically active lifestyle.[5] Recent scientific evidence on physically active individuals indicates that regular exercise increases daily protein requirements by as much as 100%, thatís double the RDA.[9-12] Even so, protein requirements during intense exercise training have not been investigated adequately. Most scientists in the field of protein metabolism now grudgingly admit that protein requirements to optimize results from intense training may be much higher than previously suspected.1,2

Dieting . . .

For almost 50 years it has been known that energy (calorie) restriction leads to increased dietary protein needs.[6] To maintain low body fat levels, most bodybuilders and bodyshapers restrict their energy intake, particularly their intake of carbohydrates. Carbohydrate is the most important fuel, it powers effective exercise training. The less carbohydrate that is available for energy, the greater the breakdown of muscle tissue during and after exercise.[7] Any person that trains intensely and restricts their energy intake is going to need a whole lotta protein!

Exercise frequency, type and intensity . . .
Any increase in exercise intensity or frequency also causes an increased need for protein.[8] Any time you up the intensity or frequency of your weight training or cardio sessions, your protein requirements will increase.[3] People who are unaccustomed to intense training will breakdown greater amounts of lean tissue.9 Therefore, the protein needs of a novice bodybuilder are probably even greater than that of a veteran bodybuilder.[10]

Isotope tracer studies reveal the reason for increased protein requirements from resistance exercise are not due to an increased need for fuel. Rather, these increased needs are the result of changes in muscle protein synthesis rates and the need to maintain greater overall amounts of lean tissue (which is why people have diets days after workouts with relatively high amounts of protein).10,11

Protein and muscle growth . . .

One of the most important findings in exercise biochemistry for the last 50-years is the confirmation that blood amino acid concentrations dictate muscle growth.[4] A high concentration of amino acids in the blood is essential for stimulating muscle protein synthesis rates. A high protein intake (above 1.5g/kg/day) is needed to maintain a high concentration of amino acids in the blood and stimulate muscle protein synthesis. This anabolic effect is not seen with lower (normal) protein intakes.[4]

Recent strength training research has shown that blood amino acid levels decline dramatically after a workout, even in athletes that consume a relatively high protein intake of 1.26 grams of protein per kg of body weight per day.[15] When blood amino acid levels drop, muscle building rates diminish. A high protein intake is essential for maximizing the anabolic effect of resistance training.

Are high protein intakes safe?

High protein intakes do not harm a healthy body. Several studies demonstrate that protein intakes (up to three times the RDA) cause no harm to healthy people.[1-4] In fact, protein intakes above the RDA appear to enhance health. Excess protein and amino intake is shown to be harmless in healthy people. Therefore, to ensure results from intense training, it is a far smarter strategy to consume more protein than to senselessly restrict protein intake.[2]>>>>>>

TiGeR AK
03-10-2004, 01:55 PM
^that's some great info..

but doesn't that website sell supplements?

i tend to be on the skeptical side of websites looking to make a profit on supplements, and having information encouraging increased intake of protein/supplements.

HemiVision
03-10-2004, 02:04 PM
However, always remember that the recommended dietary allowance (RDA) for protein (0.8grams/kg/day) does not recognize any increased protein need for a physically active lifestyle.[5] Recent scientific evidence on physically active individuals indicates that regular exercise increases daily protein requirements by as much as 100%, thatís double the RDA.[9-12]


Keep in mind, the RDA number is per kilogram of bodyweight, not per pound.

2.2lbs to a kilogram.

Let's round for simplicity and say that means the RDA recommends roughly 1gram of protein per 2lbs of bodyweight. The convention of 1gram per pound for weightlifters IS twice the RDA recommendation.

HemiVision
03-10-2004, 02:06 PM
i tend to be on the skeptical side of websites looking to make a profit on supplements, and having information encouraging increased intake of protein/supplements.

Right on.

Max-Mex
03-10-2004, 02:17 PM
I agree that 1g per lb is just more of a convenience thing, but it work for most people. I think that 1g per lb of LBM is more important, but since most people don't know exactly what that is, we just do it the ole' fashoned way.:)

:withstupi

HemiVision
03-10-2004, 02:26 PM
:withstupi

x2

restless
03-10-2004, 02:30 PM
i like how there are so many people who want facts/data saying that you don't need 1g/1lb... yet where are THEIR facts saying that you do?





There's extensive research showing that the gr per pound rule is the point where you start maintaining a positive nitrogen balance. Of course, someones who repeats garbage like this quote of yours below probably knows nothing about this....

"like they say.. only about 25-30 g of protein can be absorbed per sitting.. every 3 hours. the rest will just come right out.

Do you have any kind of logical reasoning (because I know you can't have anything that can even remotely qualify as evidence) to support this?

bill
03-10-2004, 03:13 PM
personally I think u just experiment and find out what works for yourself,

bIgHwN86
03-10-2004, 03:15 PM
personally I think u just experiment and find out what works for yourself,

I agree..if something works for you, stay with it..

meister
02-02-2005, 09:56 PM
I might be in trouble. I had like 300g+ protein today. 2 big Chicken Sandwhices, 1 Meal Replacement Shake, 2 Chicken Breasts, 1 Turkey Wrap and what ever protein came from the eggs, etc

smalls
02-02-2005, 10:23 PM
I might be in trouble. I had like 300g+ protein today. 2 big Chicken Sandwhices, 1 Meal Replacement Shake, 2 Chicken Breasts, 1 Turkey Wrap and what ever protein came from the eggs, etc

Uh, why would you be in trouble?

Vapour Trails
02-03-2005, 11:55 AM
What's missing from this thread is a discussion on how the body adapts to high and low protein intakes. There is a reason some can consume much less than others and still make and retain gains: the rate of protein turnover in the body.

When a lot of protein is consumed, the body will increase protein breakdown.

When protein intake is lowered for a period of time, the body adapts and lowers the rate of protein breakdown, so a balance is retained.


Read here http://www.karlloren.com/diet/p51.htm

"The body has several potential mechanisms by which it can attempt to maintain protein stores. Arguably the primary method, other than growth, is via alterations in the rate of AA oxidation (17,43). When the intake of an AA is below what is required for maximal growth, oxidation of that AA remains low (43). When human AA intake is in excess of requirements, oxidation is increased. This adaptive response has been demonstrated in several studies on humans, with oxidation increasing or decreasing in response to high- or low-AA intakes (3-7).

In a study involving weight training, subjects received either 1.3 g/kg or 2 g/kg of protein per day (41). In the high protein group, AA oxidation was increased by 150% above normal levels. In addition, while there was no change in protein synthesis or breakdown in the low protein group, the high protein group increased synthesis by 105% and breakdown by 107%. Despite this increase in AA oxidation, there was a significant amount of lean body mass gained, approximately 3 lbs over a 4 week span, further supporting the concept that AA oxidation is not the negative it has been made out to be."

"In humans, similar results occur: with increased protein intake, there is an overall increase in protein synthesis and breakdown. With decreased protein intake, protein synthesis and breakdown eventually fall so that the body can reattain balance (45,46). Ultimately this reflects an overall decrease in protein turnover (21). In a sense, AAs within the body are being more efficiently reutilized since there is decreased breakdown and oxidation."

chris mason
02-03-2005, 12:03 PM
The question of protein ingestion is a complex one indeed from a physiological perspective. That is why relying on individual studies can be misleading.

In the end game I know that the biggest and strongest men in the world have always consumed more protein than the average individual. Two of the biggest and strongest natural lifters ever were Doug Hepburn and Paul Anderson. Both men were know for their ingestion of huge quantities of milk.

All of the powerlifters we sponsor use large quantities of protein of their own choice. We do not encourage it, they want it. In fact, they sought us out in order to be able to afford the protein intake they need on a daily basis.