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Growth
03-08-2004, 08:26 PM
Ive just been skimming some of the member pics and its obvious the people juicing are just plain massive, but im interested to see what level some people have reached who are doing it naturaly.

So if you huge and uve done it without the juice could you reply to this post so i can check out your pics.

Saint Patrick
03-08-2004, 08:46 PM
BCC was pretty damn buff before he ever touched the goodies. Maybe he's got a "before" pic.

Allyrulez
03-09-2004, 02:19 AM
That "w84me" dude is huge and natural i think from what i lurked

Exnor
03-09-2004, 04:06 AM
I believe this member was said to have been natural. He has one of the best physiques I have seen on the board.

http://64.191.89.22/showthread.php?t=26903

zxjuiced
03-09-2004, 06:13 AM
Been lifting 4 yrs. All natural.

work out 2 times per wk.
I hit ;chest,tri`s,bi`s,legs.traps.each workout.
total: 30 set
350 reps per. workout

Cardio=2 times per wk.
treadmill 30 mins.
jump rope 30 mins

sensible diet!

1 max rep bench= 265 lbs.

Going to start my 1st.cycle in april!

tigerroar
03-09-2004, 08:33 AM
great job guys!!! glad that you could build such great bodies naturally!!!!!!!!! but can we please get some juiced up people in here so that we may see there pictures and compare them to the naturally built ones otherwise this thread is totally useless.

thanks TIGERROAR

p.s. if anyone is bored please PM me. no one has sent me a private message in a long time and i don't know wehy

thanks again
TIGERROAR

WillKuenzel
03-09-2004, 09:16 AM
Here I was a couple weeks out from my first show and natural. Its not the greatest picture or pose but you get a rough idea.
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8925

BCC
03-09-2004, 09:18 AM
Here are a few from when I was natural and 16-17 years old.

Alke
03-09-2004, 09:30 AM
still natural, havent done a cycle but thought about it.............

Beast
03-09-2004, 09:39 AM
I believe this member was said to have been natural. He has one of the best physiques I have seen on the board.

http://64.191.89.22/showthread.php?t=26903
I don't know, but I have a hard time believing that. Not like it really matters, though. Although I'd probably say the same about HY and Chase, but I trust them. ;)

Hey Chase, do you remember what types of lifts you were making back then?

BCC
03-09-2004, 10:03 AM
I don't remember a lot of them. I know I had a 475 deadlift before I even tried the AM dbol. And after that it was 500, which I probably could have done before dbol. I also hit a 385 ATF squat. Other than that, I don't really recall a whole lot.

Anthony
03-09-2004, 10:19 AM
You don't see very many people who look like that, let alone a 16 year old. Damn.

GrumpyTX
03-09-2004, 10:28 AM
Crap, need to get some pics done. I am holding a fair deal of bf right now, close to 20%, since I took the last year off after my daughters birth. I am 5'11" and weighing 248. I have thought about doing a few cycles but with a 6 year old boy and a 1 year old girl, $$$ just dont allow it.

Will see if I cant locate some kind of pic at lunch today.

GrumpyTX
03-09-2004, 10:36 AM
BCC very impressive pics man.

tigerroar
03-09-2004, 11:28 AM
home yield

you have the most impressive body that i have ever seen in a long time. could you please PM me so that i could ask you a few questions about how you became so successful in the bodybuilding industry?

thanks
TIGERROAR

BigMatt
03-09-2004, 11:55 AM
I believe this member was said to have been natural. He has one of the best physiques I have seen on the board.

http://64.191.89.22/showthread.php?t=26903

I need to get some pics,i got similar body genetic.Im 5.11 196 now,20yold

Im sure it can be done...

GrumpyTX
03-09-2004, 12:58 PM
This is about the best I have. I had been away from the gym since my daughter was born and she was app 4 months old in this pic. I believe I weighed app 255-265 in this pic. Currently weighing in at 248.

Exnor
03-09-2004, 01:35 PM
Beast: I agree, it looks a bit suspect, but indeed, its futile pondering over it. I however do know that its quite possible to have a physique like that naturally, with diet and years of training in the gym.

347D1SC: Cool. I await to see your pictures.

HY/BCC: You both look really good.

Growth
03-09-2004, 01:52 PM
Excellent reponses guys, and like that other dude said if ur massive and on juice then just say so and post ur pic, if you have a before juice and after then that would be great too. Good to see you can get massive without it :thumbup:

GrumpyTX
03-09-2004, 01:58 PM
I havent used any gear, contemplated it once or twice, but have never used. I have never really cut either, just wanted to get as big as I could possibly get. Starting April 1, I will be cutting for the first time. Thinking I can get down to about 215-220 but I havent been that light since I was 23.

EdgarMex
03-09-2004, 02:33 PM
Maybe I'm ignorant, but I don't understand why people make so much fuzz about whether a guy does gear or not. He still looks great and even if he juiced he still had to worked hard to get there.

BCC
03-09-2004, 02:34 PM
I think he's just curious to see what can realistically be achieved without it. From real people, not your Skip La Cours.

EdgarMex
03-09-2004, 02:54 PM
My comments wasn't just in regards with this thread. I've noticed that very often when somebody posts a picture and the guy looks pretty big, people will start asking/making comments on whether he has done gear.

Allyrulez
03-09-2004, 02:54 PM
Got any bigger pics of your current back Mr BCC???

cphafner
03-09-2004, 03:31 PM
Damn chase, you looked amazing for a natural guy of your age. I'll kill to look like that in a few years, and I'm almost 25.

antek
03-09-2004, 04:35 PM
natural : only been lifting for a year and a half.

smalls
03-09-2004, 05:25 PM
im interested to see what level some people have reached who are doing it naturaly.

So if you huge and uve done it without the juice could you reply to this post so i can check out your pics.

I can understand wanting to see what is possible with and without juice, but what is possible for others may not be for you. It's a trap im sure all of us fall into, comparing ourselves to others and looking at people of similar heights to see what we will look like at their weight.
Anyway my point is what is possible with juice for some may be possible without it for others, (even when correct dieting, training, etc principles are applied). JMO.

Growth
03-09-2004, 06:03 PM
Ok im natural, and i am wanting to see what other natural bodybuilders have accomplished, i realise i may or may not reach the levels of these big guys. Thats not what im interested in. Im interesed in seeing what people have achived naturally, what people have achived with some extra help, and just seeing the difference. And instead of trudging through hundreds of posts looking for what i want, if someone fits the bill they can simply post a link on this tread. That what forums are for isnt it?

Growth
03-09-2004, 06:05 PM
Well done Antek, lookin good :nod:

smalls
03-09-2004, 08:24 PM
Ok im natural, and i am wanting to see what other natural bodybuilders have accomplished, i realise i may or may not reach the levels of these big guys. Thats not what im interested in. Im interesed in seeing what people have achived naturally, what people have achived with some extra help, and just seeing the difference. And instead of trudging through hundreds of posts looking for what i want, if someone fits the bill they can simply post a link on this tread. That what forums are for isnt it?

I actually think the post was a good idea, just stating my opinion on the subject in general.

And yes antek, you look awesome.

BCC
03-09-2004, 08:39 PM
Got any bigger pics of your current back Mr BCC???

I do :angel: But I don't think I'm going to post anymore pictures until I'm sub 7 percent bodyfat or close to contest shape.


cphafner, thanks for the words. Hopefully after 2 years and some gear I'll make those pictures look like shiat this summer.

Daz
03-09-2004, 08:40 PM
Hi does any one know if Bill Davies who claims he is natural. His physique is unreal.

YoBrickWall
03-09-2004, 09:27 PM
not sure how to transfer a pic here from my online journal cause i had a friend do it for me. im 100% natural and if your interested in looking at them go to whipping pups ass by yobrickwall. theres some pics thru out the journal

YBW

rookiebldr
03-09-2004, 11:09 PM
I do :angel: But I don't think I'm going to post anymore pictures until I'm sub 7 percent bodyfat or close to contest shape.


Damn, didn't want to have to wait till after the cut!


cphafner, thanks for the words. Hopefully after 2 years and some gear I'll make those pictures look like shiat this summer.

From what I've seen thus far, you definitely will make them look like shiat!

Ozzy Osbourne
03-10-2004, 12:13 AM
I don't know, but I have a hard time believing that. Not like it really matters, though. Although I'd probably say the same about HY and Chase, but I trust them. ;)

Hey Chase, do you remember what types of lifts you were making back then?


I don't believe that guys natural either. As soon as I saw that first pic of his I thought he was on gear for sure. Just because someone says they're not on it does not mean that they aren't. I wouldn't just take someones word for it. I'm sure there are many people that don't like to admit they are using. I could be wrong, maybe he is natural, but that was my first impression.

tigerroar
03-10-2004, 06:00 AM
where are all of the people that take steroids?

BCC
03-10-2004, 09:08 AM
Some steroid action from November, just for a comparison. Basically a year and a half and a cycle and a half after the last pictures I posted in this thread.

GrumpyTX
03-10-2004, 09:13 AM
Good Lord son where did you find the flesh colored shoulder pads? Your huge. Looks very proprtionate. Good work.

BCC
03-10-2004, 09:14 AM
Lol. You're the second person that has said that to me in those exact same words. Don't know where they came from, but I'll accept 'em.

Beast
03-10-2004, 09:14 AM
Chase has an abscess on his right quad. :(




:D

BCC
03-10-2004, 09:20 AM
I like to think of it as more of an injection port :D

Actually, it's numb for about a 3 inch radius, so it's the perfect spot.

briancurran01
03-10-2004, 09:43 AM
damn chase I wish i had your size.

BCC
03-10-2004, 09:51 AM
Keep up what you're doing Brian, and you'll get there one way or another.

briancurran01
03-10-2004, 10:31 AM
hey chase. I wanted to ask you...what does insulin do for you in bodybuilding? i am asking because since I have been taking insulin for my diabetes it seems that my gains have gotten bigger. Is that because of the insulin or just a coincidence.

BCC
03-10-2004, 10:47 AM
Most likely a coincidence in your case. Although I know there are diabetic bodybuilder out there which still vary their use of insulin to build muscle.

I haven't been taking it anymore because it makes me too tired and sometimes a little sick feeling.

The main benefits are the increased transport of nutrients into muscle cells, increased appetite, and sometimes increased pumps while working out. Although if abused and combined with a poor diet, it's very easy to accumulate fat.

Bruteman
03-10-2004, 11:12 AM
The only juice in me is teh cow juice :p . I'm 5'11" and about 197 in these pics I think. You might want to put on your sunglass's before viewing :) .

antek
03-10-2004, 11:17 AM
The only juice in me is teh cow juice :p . I'm 5'11" and about 197 in these pics I think. You might want to put on your sunglass's before viewing :) .

damn dude, you're so white you look clear..
hah, no offense, good build though :)

antek
03-10-2004, 11:18 AM
Well done Antek, lookin good :nod:
Thanks man, the gains are slowly coming along, I notice with every workout :)

the doc
03-10-2004, 12:05 PM
Keep up what you're doing Brian, and you'll get there one way or another.
remember he didnt get there overnight.

a lot of hard work and dedication will get you there!

Growth
03-10-2004, 12:12 PM
BCC is just plain fckn massive, Awesome effort man.

Antek: i also used to see gains on a weekly basis but i seem to have plateaued a bit which i saw as a good opportunity to cut nad i think that any gains i make are harder to see since ive put more fat. Im looking to get to a bf similar to yours, do you know yours?

YBW: Found a shot in your journal on page 18, is this the only pic you got? and its like 5-6 months old. Maybe you can get some new pics and post em here

ectx
03-10-2004, 01:18 PM
Keep up what you're doing Brian, and you'll get there one way or another.

It's comments like these that remind of what an awesome forum this is. Everybody encourages everybody.


Chase, you're still a joto though. ;)

BCC
03-10-2004, 01:27 PM
It's Chasper, your local friendly joto ;)

YoBrickWall
03-10-2004, 01:37 PM
yo growth- go to page 10. ill look thru the rest of the journal for others. im 10 lbs heavier now so ill try to get a recent pic. and have pup post it

YBW

Bruteman
03-10-2004, 01:45 PM
damn dude, you're so white you look clear..
hah, no offense, good build though :)
Thanks dude! I am a bit pale huh. I need to quit being so self conscious and take my shirt off when I'm outside once in a while and get some rays.

Growth
03-10-2004, 01:54 PM
YBW: looking big man, exc cuts, i was wondering what was going on with the pic on page 18 hehe, those are some good shots.

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=27605&page=10

For all those interested, theres a link, about 2/3s down the page. Well worth a look.

Rock
03-10-2004, 02:25 PM
here is me when I was 18 at 230+lbs, and 19 at 225lbs, I am natural and want to make it big in the natural competitions, not saying I will, but I want to..



But I will :)

Beast
03-10-2004, 03:18 PM
lol damn, rock, your head became small. :D

antek
03-10-2004, 05:11 PM
Im looking to get to a bf similar to yours, do you know yours?

No man, I don't know, gotta get it checked, I think around 8% maybe.

TKoziol
03-10-2004, 10:04 PM
antek: very nicely done.

Saint Patrick
03-10-2004, 11:57 PM
Okay, I'll bite:

Still natty at this point.

http://64.191.89.22/attachment.php?attachmentid=10619

Lance
03-11-2004, 12:02 AM
Okay, I'll bite:

Still natty at this point.

http://64.191.89.22/attachment.php?attachmentid=10619

Natural. I'm 18. 5'11'' , 195lbs. (I don't know why i weigh so much)

These were taken February 7th.

Saint Patrick
03-11-2004, 12:17 AM
Looking good, Lance.

Sinep
03-11-2004, 02:04 AM
In the natural...

Franco
03-11-2004, 02:50 AM
Do you have any current pics Marc?

ElPietro
03-11-2004, 07:19 AM
peniS you're looking damned ripped! :thumbup:

TheGimp
03-11-2004, 08:41 AM
Aye penis, looking awesome.

Got some great looking guys in this thread.

illa_noize
03-11-2004, 08:53 AM
Where's the juicing members at? I know they didn't put in all that work to not post here and show off what their hard work got them. C'mon, don't be scurrd.

chris mason
03-11-2004, 09:05 AM
I've put some pictures up on this site in the past. I am natural and weigh ~230 at 5'11". My strength is very good for a natural, and my size is pretty decent as well. Unforunately, I think my bf is a bit high with respect to what you may be looking for in pictures here. That said, maybe I will get some pics up soon.

Jasonl
03-11-2004, 01:10 PM
Damn, all you natural guys are making me look bad.:) I gotta pick up the pace.

illa_noize
03-11-2004, 01:32 PM
Damn, all you natural guys are making me look bad.:) I gotta pick up the pace.
Serious. But I've only been hitting the gym everyday since Nov.

All the natrual guys have more balls then the "juicier" ones. What's up with that? outnumber

JD77
03-11-2004, 01:41 PM
Serious. But I've only been hitting the gym everyday since Nov.

All the natrual guys have more balls then the "juicier" ones. What's up with that? outnumber

juicier? wtf?

Jasonl
03-11-2004, 01:50 PM
Serious. But I've only been hitting the gym everyday since Nov.

All the natrual guys have more balls then the "juicier" ones. What's up with that? outnumber
Well I'm not on the "juice", nor do I ever intend to be, but really, some of you guys seem to have great genetics along with good training and diet.

Rock
03-11-2004, 02:42 PM
chris, I still remember that lat pose of yours, damn good pic.

Blitzforce
03-11-2004, 05:04 PM
I'll post a few new pics later in the year when I lean up a bit, but I'm a natty and have been training for about 3 years, and getting quite large even though i don't train for size :)

currently 5'9" and 99kg or 218lbs, bulked, mostly legs and back :D

UKmarkw
03-12-2004, 04:10 AM
I think Chris Mason's photos that I've seen on this site are a great example of large muscle size that can be acheived naturally, depending on each individuals genetics obviously.

BennettBoy
03-12-2004, 05:44 AM
Totally natural back shot.
5'9" 175

Rock
03-12-2004, 07:26 AM
BennettBoy your wicked, just wicked

Beast
03-12-2004, 07:31 AM
BennettBoy your wicked, just wicked
:withstupi
Yeah, you look like someone I would say was not natural, so that means you look great. ;)

VasDeferens
03-12-2004, 09:10 AM
I hate most of you

Allyrulez
03-12-2004, 11:28 AM
DAmn bennetboy those forearms are monstrous

Reinier
03-12-2004, 11:46 AM
Totally natural back shot.
5'9" 175

you def dont look natural, and you look better than many juicers I know

cphafner
03-12-2004, 12:29 PM
I haven't acheived largeness, but I guess I'm an example of a natural with low BF%.

BennettBoy
03-12-2004, 12:39 PM
you def dont look natural, and you look better than many juicers I know

Well thank you much Reinier. I once considered doing 1-AD but opted to just stay completely natural. I'm too old to worry over it now. :D

BennettBoy
03-12-2004, 12:40 PM
Looking good cphafner. Very lean indeed.

Allyrulez
03-12-2004, 01:22 PM
BennetBoy can you please briefly list the excercises you do for those lats??

antek
03-12-2004, 01:48 PM
cphafner and benettboy, you guys look awesome. keep up the hard work :)

cphafner
03-12-2004, 01:57 PM
Craig: thanks man. I'm heavier and fatter than that now, you'd still kick my butt in a comp.

Antek: thanks man, I'd love to trade my abs for yours.

geoffgarcia
03-12-2004, 02:42 PM
I also hit a 385 ATF squat. Other than that, I don't really recall a whole lot.thats re-don-culous! :strong:
how do you hold the bar? I feel like jumping for joy because I can finally do 150 buckaroos!!!!
(I hold the bar in the front and do it for 3x10 btw, and its at the end of my quad day)

BigMatt
03-12-2004, 03:33 PM
Totally natural back shot.
5'9" 175


BennetBoy- What was your BF in that pic? approximatly... Lean and good size!

BCC
03-12-2004, 08:23 PM
thats re-don-culous! :strong:
how do you hold the bar? I feel like jumping for joy because I can finally do 150 buckaroos!!!!
(I hold the bar in the front and do it for 3x10 btw, and its at the end of my quad day)


Hmmm may be a bit of miscommunication here. The ATF is ass to feet squats. With the bar on the back. You may be thinking of front squats. In that case, I could do 315 for a few reps naturally for front squats and ass to feet.

geoffgarcia
03-12-2004, 08:45 PM
Hmmm may be a bit of miscommunication here. The ATF is ass to feet squats. With the bar on the back. You may be thinking of front squats. In that case, I could do 315 for a few reps naturally for front squats and ass to feet.
yah, I do ass to feet/floor front squats....I have a hard time putting the bar in the back...

BennettBoy
03-13-2004, 02:18 PM
BennetBoy can you please briefly list the excercises you do for those lats??

I usually start with neutral grip pullups. 4 sets or so x 8-10 reps.
Then move to do wide lats. 3-4 more sets or so in the 120-140 range.
Then I do 2 rowing movements of any sort. 8 more sets.
Then I finish usually with hammer lat pulldowns....another 4 sets.
I do deadlifts every other week usually. Sometimes I do them with legs and sometimes with back.

Basically, I have no routine. I seek to do different excercises each week and mix up the order too sometimes. I just do ALOT of sets for back.

I do alot of sets unlike alot of people. Seems to work better for me.

BennettBoy
03-13-2004, 02:28 PM
BennetBoy- What was your BF in that pic? approximatly... Lean and good size!

I'd say about what I am currently at 8% or so.

Gavan
03-13-2004, 03:20 PM
I hate most of you

:D

I too !

here are 4 examples of big natural lifters :

http://fr.f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ncodelporte/my_photos
http://fr.f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/thejeriko/my_photos
http://fr.f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/pousseur_fontes/album?.dir=/2c3f
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ritt_guillaume2000/album?.dir=/e10b


GENETIC ! my beeing ectomorph and weak I'll never look like them :(

BennettBoy
03-13-2004, 08:35 PM
Just for the hell of it I'll post a different back pose.

JD77
03-14-2004, 12:02 AM
You're in incredible shape BennettBoy. Nice work.

TheGimp
03-14-2004, 03:13 PM
Looking good cphafner. Love the lean look :thumbup:

BennettBoy
03-15-2004, 08:41 AM
No man, I don't know, gotta get it checked, I think around 8% maybe.

I'd say you are probably closer to 7%.

ianack4life
03-15-2004, 08:19 PM
Some steroid action from November, just for a comparison. Basically a year and a half and a cycle and a half after the last pictures I posted in this thread.

wow, crazy traps

Growth
03-16-2004, 01:48 PM
Have to agree with the other BennettBoy has a great physique. Although i may not personal reach the levels of a bodybuilder such as this its good to know whats possible without anabolics...and what is (BCC) :nod:

Sh!mA
03-17-2004, 07:10 PM
Sinep, how come in the first pic you have one hairstyle and are "of a darker tone" and in the next u look different....

Beast
03-17-2004, 07:29 PM
Sinep, how come in the first pic you have one hairstyle and are "of a darker tone" and in the next u look different....
I think because they were taken at different times witrh different hair cuts.

Rock
03-18-2004, 10:40 AM
yes, I think that is the reason too, yes I do agree, your honour what do you say? do you agree?

You must explain your self sinep, this is highly unheard of, this is a scandale, this is madness.

Holto
03-19-2004, 11:26 AM
I swear to god laughing at Rocks jokes are saving me money on therapy later in life

looking awesome guys

smalls
03-19-2004, 03:55 PM
Okay, I'll bite:

Still natty at this point.

http://64.191.89.22/attachment.php?attachmentid=10619

Looking good bro, I wish my abs where half that thick.

There are a lot of good physiques on this thread.

Rock
03-20-2004, 07:19 AM
thanx holto!

Paddy did you steal ronnie colemans abs or something, you look good generally, but your midsection is taken out of flex or something.

JustinASU
03-20-2004, 08:37 AM
thanx holto!

Paddy did you steal ronnie colemans abs or something, you look good generally, but your midsection is taken out of flex or something.


I always think the same thing but it just seems like Patty's abs are insanely large. Although abs are not something you'd think to see on a irishman. :p

Saint Patrick
03-20-2004, 09:01 AM
Paddy did you steal ronnie colemans abs or something, you look good generally, but your midsection is taken out of flex or something.

LOL thanks rock. Nah, I didn't steal ronnie's GH gut. Keep in mind I'm prepping for a show, so my bf% is lower than usual right now.

What can I say? some of us have chest, shoulders, or biceps, I've got Calves and Abs! :)

furious
03-20-2004, 09:59 AM
Is bigchaseylane natural? That guy's physique is unreal

BCC
03-20-2004, 10:04 AM
LOL @ chasey lane.

The first set of 5 pictures I posted, I was natural in.

Mademan118
03-22-2004, 07:20 PM
do you guys think this guy is natural?
this is exactly how i want to look
http://www.bodybuilders.com/davey04.jpg

Beast
03-22-2004, 07:23 PM
I would say definitely not.

Mademan118
03-22-2004, 08:02 PM
oh

Big Brother
03-22-2004, 10:37 PM
No, that smile is sooo the result of plastic surgery.
:boring:

Seriously though, not natural-looking at all.

WillKuenzel
03-22-2004, 10:53 PM
do you guys think this guy is natural?
this is exactly how i want to look
http://www.bodybuilders.com/davey04.jpg
I'd be hesitant to think he's natural but just looking at the upper body, its possible. Through proper diet and nutrition and the proper routine, as well as a good and proper tan, its possible.

WillKuenzel
03-22-2004, 11:10 PM
Lets look at some progression. You'd be surprised with what a little manipulation of light, tanning and water can do. There are quite a few people out there I might not be so quick to toss on the steriod band wagon.

Here's a few more pics from when I was preparing for and in my first competition. I competed completely natural.

While cutting. (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=8999)

A week later with a tan (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9000)

Most muscular in competition. (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9073)

Stupid cropped pic of ab and thighs at comp. (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9070)

Side chest (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9068)

You can see what a bit of tan and oil can do.

antek
03-22-2004, 11:43 PM
I'd be hesitant to think he's natural but just looking at the upper body, its possible. Through proper diet and nutrition and the proper routine, as well as a good and proper tan, its possible.

Yeah I agree, tans can do a lot.
that body is possible to have without roids, but not sure whether the guy actually is or isn't.

ectx
03-23-2004, 01:10 AM
do you guys think this guy is natural?
this is exactly how i want to look
http://www.bodybuilders.com/davey04.jpg

There's actually a thread on him in general chat...

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=44264

embro
03-23-2004, 01:11 AM
do you guys think this guy is natural?
this is exactly how i want to look
http://www.bodybuilders.com/davey04.jpg


One word..... MAKE UP

Big Brother
03-23-2004, 03:19 AM
You can see what a bit of tan and oil can do.

You have to do something about those eyes of yours.. you look positively EVIL
:evillaugh

TheGimp
03-23-2004, 04:14 AM
:withstupi

It's scary

Rock
03-23-2004, 09:13 AM
I didnt know you looked that good Homeyield, I am impressed.

Max-Mex
03-23-2004, 09:33 AM
A week later with a tan (http://www.wannabebigforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=9000)

Insane in the membrane. Intense look there HY.

WillKuenzel
03-23-2004, 10:19 AM
LOL, okay, so I make some weird faces while posing. :p

Thanks for the compliments and I'll take the evil look as one too. :D

Isaac Wilkins
03-23-2004, 12:47 PM
It's funny that people don't realize you're like 5'2" when you appear in these pictures.

;)

WillKuenzel
03-23-2004, 01:42 PM
*flips off Borris*

Don't be hatin', yo.

Isaac Wilkins
03-23-2004, 02:30 PM
:D

ericg
03-23-2004, 02:57 PM
Seriously Will, are you 5'2"?

WillKuenzel
03-23-2004, 03:30 PM
No. Stupid Borris thought he'd be funny. ;) I'm 5'10". In the pre-contest pics I'm about 180. During contest and after cutting water, I'm probably 175-178. I weighed in at 172lbs, but I know that's crap because the scales were so damn light to help guys in the open division make weight.

Allyrulez
03-23-2004, 04:04 PM
Awesome natural traps HomeYield, simply devastating!!!!

VasDeferens
03-23-2004, 05:59 PM
Seriously Will, are you 5'2"?

heh. even a girl will feel insulted by this question.

cphafner
03-24-2004, 02:24 PM
I used to workout with Will, he's atleast a good 5' 4" or 5' 5".

JustinASU
03-24-2004, 06:00 PM
Yeah, Will is really just a well built, strong, redneck midget.

Teufelhund
03-25-2004, 01:45 PM
Hey Will, take your pick! We have a choice of two all time favorite midget-exploiting theme songs:
"We represent the lollipop guild..."
or
"Oompa Loompa, oompadee doo..."


I dare you to use one of them at your next show! :p

Alke
03-25-2004, 01:54 PM
never saw your comp pics before now homeyield, **** you really dialed into that cut. awesome work man!

bill
03-25-2004, 03:04 PM
HY how did feel getting that cut physically great job what place did you get

W8_4_Me
03-27-2004, 03:34 PM
Wow! Props to Home Yield, Bennett Boy, BCC... awesome work!

Someone said something early on in this thread.... I've never taken a steriod. I have tried creatine and thermogenics, but that's about it.

Here are the most recent I have.... from a previous thread.

http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=37581

bill
03-28-2004, 05:26 PM
good job any stats

BennettBoy
03-29-2004, 04:26 PM
Wow! Props to Home Yield, Bennett Boy, BCC... awesome work!




Thank you sir. Here is one from front view relaxed since I only posted back pics. This is less than 1 month old.

WillKuenzel
03-29-2004, 04:43 PM
Thank you sir. Here is one from front view relaxed since I only posted back pics. This is less than 1 month old.
Wow, so you are still working out. :p

Impressive as always, Craig.

JustinASU
03-29-2004, 04:45 PM
Craig, What's the highest bf level you allow yourself to get to? you must know exactly how to eat to not gain unneeded fat.

Saint Patrick
03-29-2004, 06:21 PM
Damn, Bennett, talk about chiseled pecs. Looking ace.

cphafner
03-30-2004, 03:58 PM
Craig, you're ridiculous. Lookin awesome!

Focused
04-04-2004, 08:29 AM
so im guessing that "gear" and " juice" means taking steroids?

jagleaso
04-04-2004, 09:22 AM
you are guessing right

Reala
08-06-2006, 08:50 AM
Can someone define 'juiced' please? :S

McVein
08-06-2006, 09:57 AM
on roids

ehscrewdude
08-06-2006, 10:09 AM
Dead threads should never be brought back to life.... especially 2 year old ones... :newbie:

Kevin89
08-06-2006, 10:10 AM
this is a really old thread :o

Bohizzle
08-06-2006, 10:59 AM
a good thread nonetheless, definitely some very impressive physiques, both natural and not.

Andrew

McVein
08-06-2006, 11:29 AM
a good thread nonetheless, definitely some very impressive physiques, both natural and not.

Andrew

haha for a minute i thought that said natural and HOT.........:omg: back away not today haha

KarateBoy
08-06-2006, 05:12 PM
Nowhere near big but my profile has a pic that encourages leaness (I hope)

Edit: http://www.wannabebigforums.com/image.php?u=15369&dateline=1151559536&type=profile

Arms are always lagging. Hoping to add atleast 10lbs by Christmas and of that to add 1.5'' to each arm. Also hoping to be @ a 29'' waist by then.

KingWilder
08-06-2006, 06:54 PM
you want to only add 10 lbs and expect your arms to grow 1.5" ??? props if you can make it happen, but don't hold your breath.


Glad this thread got brought back up, interesting and inspiring to look through for those of us that don't plan on using steroids.

KarateBoy
08-06-2006, 06:59 PM
you want to only add 10 lbs and expect your arms to grow 1.5" ??? props if you can make it happen, but don't hold your breath.


Glad this thread got brought back up, interesting and inspiring to look through for those of us that don't plan on using steroids.

Thats how much they grew in the last 10 lbs. Stop trolling me:rolleyes:

KingWilder
08-06-2006, 07:07 PM
haha sorry I'm "trolling you". I just think gaining 1.5" on your biceps with only 10 lbs, even if it happened in the past, is a bit of an unreasonable goal. But hey, prove me wrong. What are they at now?

KarateBoy
08-06-2006, 07:09 PM
haha sorry I'm "trolling you". I just think gaining 1.5" on your biceps with only 10 lbs, even if it happened in the past, is a bit of an unreasonable goal. But hey, prove me wrong. What are they at now?

13.5'' from 12''

Why would it matter what they are now? You want to make sure I can add?

I didn't hit my bicep that hard..mostly tricep.

wannab250
08-06-2006, 09:46 PM
because you got a 1.5 inch gain from your first 10 lbs doesnt mean your gonna get another 1.5 inch from the next 10, trust me ive been at your weight before and stats were almost identical,

i was even close to your weight, i am now well over 200 lbs, but when i went from 205 to 230 lbs i barely gained an inch on arms (17" to 18"), but like the above said , mad props *IF* you can do it..

Nosaj
08-07-2006, 02:07 AM
Hi, I like to measure my biceps often. :cool:

Jinkies
08-07-2006, 02:07 PM
Threads like this make me want to run a cycle, its clear that I can't get the results I want naturally.

Jordanbcool
08-12-2006, 07:25 AM
Threads like this make me want to run a cycle, its clear that I can't get the results I want naturally.

Why? The major advantage of juicers over natural bodybuilders is time (and of course size). The last bodybuilding competition I went to I saw some fantastic physiques, even though the whole competition was drug tested. The down side? The biggest guys were in there late 30's to early 40's and they had started lifting very young. So you can get comparable results going natural, its just going to take you decades to reach. Granted they probably had crazy genes but you'd be surprised how good you can be with some knowledge, determination and hard work.

Keep at the weights.

-jordan

P.S. If its any comfort I'll be running a cycle this summer or next summer. I'd rather have a god-like body when I can enjoy it :D

cphafner
08-12-2006, 07:56 AM
Why? The major advantage of juicers over natural bodybuilders is time (and of course size). The last bodybuilding competition I went to I saw some fantastic physiques, even though the whole competition was drug tested. The down side? The biggest guys were in there late 30's to early 40's and they had started lifting very young. So you can get comparable results going natural, its just going to take you decades to reach. Granted they probably had crazy genes but you'd be surprised how good you can be with some knowledge, determination and hard work.

Keep at the weights.

-jordan

P.S. If its any comfort I'll be running a cycle this summer or next summer. I'd rather have a god-like body when I can enjoy it :D


Natual orgs have a timeframe that you needed to be clean. The most strict is the INBF/WNBF with a 7 year period. Musclemania shows are only 1 year. Most natural guys have ran cycles earlier in their life. I was very impressed with the physiques at my show, but doubt most were lifetime naturals. You also have to note most of the guys are very short.

cphafner
08-12-2006, 07:58 AM
I'll add a new picture in here. I'm only 180, and just starting a bulk. I plan on hitting 200. Nothing too impressive, but I like to think I show what proper nutrition, training, and dedication can yield for the typical hardgainer. This isn't the best photo, but I'll try to get some this weekend with a digi.

SaVvY
08-12-2006, 09:56 AM
two pics, one of how low ive had my body fat @ 191lbs a while back

the 2nd is after a lengthy bulk - 258lbs

both @ 19 years old - ive never used roids

dav619
08-12-2006, 10:57 AM
SaVVy, I'm loving the wrestling picture in the background!! Is that the rock!!

(I could be completely wrong by the way, it just looks like a poster my little bro's got in his bedroom)

dav619
08-12-2006, 10:58 AM
SaVVy, great gains by the way, how long did that take? Looking big mate!

SaVvY
08-12-2006, 12:22 PM
thanks man

thats a poster of dave batista

before i say this, know that its not even supposed to be possible, so its not a realistic goal for most people - it took me around 8 months to go from 180lbs @ 14% body fat, to 260lbs @ 17% body fat

s0500947
08-12-2006, 12:54 PM
Savvy, the first picture is 14% body fat?? No way, it looks much much less, are you sucking in your gut or something?

Jordanbcool
08-12-2006, 04:02 PM
Savvy didnt you tell us a different bodyfat percentage the first time you made these claims?:rolleyes:


it is how it works, all my tutors in college agreed on all of what i say, years of research ive done myself also goes towards my opinions - theres nothing wrong with what im saying or my reasons imo

cardio is the best way to lose fat, if it wasnt nobody would do it, this is very well known - you cant lose any body fat through diet alone, none at all, you have to do exercise, and the most efficient form of fat loss without raising the metabolism is less intense, lengthy cardio sessions / the most efficent way of fat loss with increased metabolism is shorter, more intense cardio sessions

raising the metabolism will burn off calories, which will prevent fat storage, but it wont help so much with keeping / gaining muscle (although there is times when a raised metabolism is a good idea), its a better idea to do less intense, lengthy cardio sessions - this is the way to gain muscle / drop body fat at the same time

lifting weights is done to gain muscle, gain strength, or gain endurance, it can lose body fat but thats not what its general aimed at because its not the most effective way to go about this

if i dont know what im doing / dont know what im talking about, how is it i can cut and get ripped (see attachment) in a couple of months from an average amount of body fat, without steroids, while still gaining muscle? an then bulk for 6 months and gain 70lbs while increasing body fat by only 1%, without steroids? as well as throughout this time literally double (or more) all my lifts?

surely i would have to have some of the best genetics on the planet - however before i started lifting i was a skinny but fat kid, with very little strength

Makes you wonder..

Jordanbcool
08-12-2006, 04:04 PM
Natual orgs have a timeframe that you needed to be clean. The most strict is the INBF/WNBF with a 7 year period. Musclemania shows are only 1 year. Most natural guys have ran cycles earlier in their life. I was very impressed with the physiques at my show, but doubt most were lifetime naturals. You also have to note most of the guys are very short.

Theres no way anyone could know that....unless I had access to their results. I dunno I believe them simply because of their age.

SaVvY
08-13-2006, 12:30 PM
Savvy, the first picture is 14% body fat?? No way, it looks much much less, are you sucking in your gut or something?
you cant make your abs show by sucking in a gut haha no this was later on, i at first was cutting, i just gained size as well

SaVvY
08-13-2006, 12:32 PM
Savvy didnt you tell us a different bodyfat percentage the first time you made these claims?:rolleyes:



Makes you wonder..
i started @ 14%, i went down lower, but at the end of the 6 or so months i was 15%, now @ 260 im 17% because i gained 2% when i got burnt on holiday from bad food an loss of muscle

JamesBOMB
11-09-2006, 01:40 AM
Mine as well revive it with my sexy pic. Im n/a not blown or nos assisted. 6' 2" 221lbs
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7065/1102062247ia8.jpg

Guido
11-09-2006, 08:23 AM
I suppose I can include my obligatory Before and After pics. Ignore the dates, BTW. The "before" are actually from 04, not 05. Yes I know the "afters" are kind of old now. I need new pics.

bill
11-13-2006, 08:57 PM
guido You've made some impressive gains!

1mmort4l
11-14-2006, 04:09 AM
I have seen this thread, but never considered posting in it.
Since its back again... Why not...
This pic was early 2005.


http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/259/1001466kx5.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1001466kx5.jpg)

Edit: Oh, definately non juiced BTW..

Davidelmo
11-14-2006, 11:16 AM
I have seen this thread, but never considered posting in it.
Since its back again... Why not...
This pic was early 2005.


http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/259/1001466kx5.th.jpg (http://img183.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1001466kx5.jpg)

Edit: Oh, definately non juiced BTW..

Is that really you?!

You look way bigger than you do in your av and way bigger than the stats in your sig.

1mmort4l
11-15-2006, 01:05 AM
Is that really you?!

You look way bigger than you do in your av and way bigger than the stats in your sig.


Of course its me.. Why would i put someone elses ugly mug up on the net?

In that pic i weighed about 78kgs/170lbs at 5'9".
Must have been good light or something because even i thought i looked decent size.. :clown:

Ruffian
11-15-2006, 01:50 PM
Wow... Never seen this thread before!

Its crazy the differences though, but I have to admit that I have a preference for the natty look as compared to the juiced one.... Of course, dont get me wrong, BCC is friggen massive and quite good looking. In general though, most ppl who do roids dont care for their diet and just allow the drug to give them the advantage adn because of that, look quite ugly.... *Shrugs*

Just my preference anyway, plus, I think those of you who dont do steroids and get accused of doing them will feel much better about yourselves then the chemically enhanced ppl (no offense to those of you that do of course)!

Just my $0.02

However, everyone is looking Grreat on here! BCC, I had no idea you looked that good when you were natural; quite insane really! This is a great thread, it really shows the differences between what you can/cannot achieve on and off roids.

JHolmes145
11-15-2006, 02:23 PM
In general though, most ppl who do roids dont care for their diet and just allow the drug to give them the advantage adn because of that, look quite ugly.... *Shrugs*



i never heard of that stereotype amongst ppl who use steroids, from my experience ppl who do steroids diet harder then ppl who dont, but i do agree that steroids can not make up for a bad diet.

Ruffian
11-15-2006, 09:24 PM
i never heard of that stereotype amongst ppl who use steroids, from my experience ppl who do steroids diet harder then ppl who dont, but i do agree that steroids can not make up for a bad diet.

Generally ppl who take the time to post in a forum like this will care about diet, but the ppl who just pick up the needle and plunge away just want quick gains.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the majority of ppl I see around here who obviously do it.

JamesBOMB
11-16-2006, 05:05 PM
IDIOTS take steroids to do quick gains. Hardworking and dedicated guys take steroids, cycle it, pct,cycle it again and keep consistant in there training. The idiots fail to eat like horses, fail to bust there ass day after day and go out drinking everynight, do a half assed pct if any at all blah blah blah.

Iv done them before and it wasnt for the quick gains they provide when you bust your ass. Most guys that do steroids anyway for the first time cant even rep there body weight because they dont have the will power or the knowledge

jdeity
11-17-2006, 05:55 PM
If it wasn't for the quick gains, what was it for? Have you maxed your genetic potential?

BFGUITAR
11-17-2006, 06:42 PM
This thread makes me depressed.
I assume you dont get bodies like those with WBB1 hahahaha.

jdeity
11-17-2006, 06:50 PM
? There are a lot of great bodies that are natty in this thread.

JamesBOMB
11-17-2006, 08:41 PM
If it wasn't for the quick gains, what was it for? Have you maxed your genetic potential?

It was curiosity, how they worked, how well etc etc. No ones going to bust there balls just so they can reach there genetic potential. Real guys want to be past there natural potential so they use. Little guys want quick results, so they inject and complain later why they have boobs, or swollen ass's etc.

Who just wants to be average anyway, I want to be above:nod:

HahnB
11-18-2006, 09:53 AM
I would hope that if you've taken steroids, one of the reasons was so you could add LBM at a faster rate. That seems like a pretty good reason to me.

Stumprrp
11-18-2006, 10:26 AM
you can be above average without roids, end of story :D

no hating on the roid users though u guys slay too

jdeity
11-18-2006, 11:49 AM
It was curiosity, how they worked, how well etc etc. No ones going to bust there balls just so they can reach there genetic potential. Real guys want to be past there natural potential so they use. Little guys want quick results, so they inject and complain later why they have boobs, or swollen ass's etc.

Who just wants to be average anyway, I want to be above:nod:
Agreed. That's why i first used, and am using now. I don't believe i'm at my genetic limits, I want to get more muscle, faster.

I just seems people are so ready to make it seem like you have to 'earn' steroids by hitting your natural limits, but the thing is that (as mentioned in this thread), what the hell are natural limits? Someone already mentioned that the best guys at natural shows are older, as it took that long to get the muscle they have. Gear makes you grow faster, and not that i'm recommending it for everyone, people make it seem like a last resort type of venture.

HahnB
11-18-2006, 12:59 PM
I'm not so sure if I'd want to go much over my natural limit. I'd rather just keep getting leaner and leaner, and get as big and as lean as I can with-in my natural limit. Going past your natural limit usually means you'd have to consistently cycle to keep most of the lbm you've added beyond your natural limit. When you stay with-in your limits and concentrate on getting leaner you can always keep what you have when you come off.

jdeity
11-18-2006, 01:18 PM
I guess maybe 'natural limit' wasn't the right way of phrasing what i mean. What i mean is that, very commonly, you'll hear things on this board like 'you only weigh ***, you don't need to be anywhere near steroids yet. Wait a few years and then try'. I see those kinds of statements, and it just makes me wonder what the hell the difference is. I DO understand that you need to be making gains on your own in the first place, so that you will get the most out of a cycle, and so your body will be equipped to lift (ie you won't be breaking yourself wiht your new strength). But It seems that people only 'respect' using steroids if they've already made huuge natural gains, but i don't understand why the magnitude of what you did naturally really makes you 'ready' for using gear (again, imo, you need to have made decent progress, otherwise you'd likely have a crappy cycle, lose everything after it, and maybe even hurt yourself on it. But there almost seems to be this attitude of 'earning' the gear by having very impressive results beforehand, whihc i just don't get, since gear is for most people just something to make the gains faster)

JamesBOMB
11-18-2006, 03:38 PM
I guess maybe 'natural limit' wasn't the right way of phrasing what i mean. What i mean is that, very commonly, you'll hear things on this board like 'you only weigh ***, you don't need to be anywhere near steroids yet. Wait a few years and then try'. I see those kinds of statements, and it just makes me wonder what the hell the difference is. I DO understand that you need to be making gains on your own in the first place, so that you will get the most out of a cycle, and so your body will be equipped to lift (ie you won't be breaking yourself wiht your new strength). But It seems that people only 'respect' using steroids if they've already made huuge natural gains, but i don't understand why the magnitude of what you did naturally really makes you 'ready' for using gear (again, imo, you need to have made decent progress, otherwise you'd likely have a crappy cycle, lose everything after it, and maybe even hurt yourself on it. But there almost seems to be this attitude of 'earning' the gear by having very impressive results beforehand, whihc i just don't get, since gear is for most people just something to make the gains faster)

I say that alot mainly because alot of young people are looking for an escape to put on muscle, but they dont even really have the knowledge to build on muscle they can easily get by just eating and lifting hard. Plus those guys are just set in there mind they wanna be huge and absolutly have no idea how they want to look, or if they have the time to dedicate to lifting in a few years. I guess its kinda like this, steroids is for life (for above nat gains) and you have to have your diet and lifting down to keep the gains you got. So how will someone that cant even gain a certain bench press/squat etc that EVERYONE can acheive do steroids, and expect to keep there gains off of THAT if they cant even do it naturally? Thats all I say when youngers want to roid. I think I made sense, its alot easier to explain it when I talk.

HeavyBomber
11-18-2006, 08:57 PM
One of the problems with turning to AS too early is after you use them and see the results you'll never be happy with your gains and physique without them.
Another thing to consider is this, a person needs to learn how their body responds to different diet and training schemes. AS can skew your perception dramatically.

Also, everybody gets older. If you start roids early on before you know it you've used for a lot of years. Who really knows how this will affect you later on in life.

Okay, enough preaching. sorry. :)

Gabrielle
11-19-2006, 02:39 AM
HahnB has some excellent advice. I am definitely way past my natural limit, thus I have to maintain with "supplements" and it sucks.

HILL
11-19-2006, 07:51 AM
Gabrielle out of interest do you have any current pics. I only ask because you are obviously knowledgable in most areas and give great advice alot of which i take myself and it would be good to see how you look.

I know some people dont post pics on here just thought id ask

HILL

ArchAngel777
11-19-2006, 08:36 AM
It was curiosity, how they worked, how well etc etc. No ones going to bust there balls just so they can reach there genetic potential. Real guys want to be past there natural potential so they use. Little guys want quick results, so they inject and complain later why they have boobs, or swollen ass's etc.

Who just wants to be average anyway, I want to be above:nod:

Well, I guess I am not a real guy then? That is a pretty weak statement. I bust my balls and train just as hard as anyone else, why? To achieve my genetic potential. You get a thumbs down man.

JamesBOMB
11-19-2006, 10:16 AM
So your willing to bust balls, and end up NOT being able to go anywhere, EVER? If I am gonna try for 1000 years to hit my max limit, mine as well get there faster, blow past it and laugh at you guys still trying to reach it

RBB
11-19-2006, 12:42 PM
Gabrielle out of interest do you have any current pics. I only ask because you are obviously knowledgable in most areas and give great advice alot of which i take myself and it would be good to see how you look.

I know some people dont post pics on here just thought id ask

HILL
i'll second that. but no worries if you don't want to post up that kind of stuff bro.

Bohizzle
11-19-2006, 12:51 PM
i'll second that. but no worries if you don't want to post up that kind of stuff bro.
:withstupi :withstupi

Andrew

cphafner
11-19-2006, 03:45 PM
guys this thread is not to debate the use of steroids. Keep it on topic or this thread will be closed.

jdeity
11-19-2006, 04:33 PM
guys this thread is not to debate the use of steroids. Keep it on topic or this thread will be closed.
sorry man, i'll post my stuff (relative to this thread).

I'm early 20's, have used gear twice. One cycle was a short (relatively, it was ~2months) one, using testosterone (sustanon 250 to be precise, which is a blend of short/medium/fast acting testosterones. Sounded cool at the time lol). I gained well, but lost *everything* i gained (what, protein doesn't count as pct?).

Currently I'm on Halodrol, and am weighing in at ~163 today.

The attached pics are of me weighing within five pounds of 160, so they're not up to the minute accurate, but are close.
(i should also mention that if i were to show you a picture of me the day before my first cycle, i'd still look kinda similar to these pics, as i was probably ~140 then, so it's not a huuge difference by any means)

Beast
11-19-2006, 05:16 PM
You look great, bro. Nice and lean.

I'm not sure why you would take a step down from sust to a prohormone, though. It's going to be a waste of money.

jdeity
11-19-2006, 05:23 PM
thanks. there's practical reasons, trust me on that. I'd much prefer doing a cycle of test (not the durateston stuff again tho) to prohormones - longer cycle, no methylated orals, higher quality / more known product, more predictable results, etc.

My choice was halodrol/tamoxifen or no cycle, so i went with the halo. Hopefully we'll have a nice test log starting up sometime in early/mid '07.

The prohormones are a total rip off cash-wise, luckily i got mine for a decent price, spending about $100 for both my cycle and pct. Considering I'd expect to drop a couple hundred for a real test cycle, which would last twice as long, it's really not so bad relatively speaking (although maybe I jsut waaay overpaid for test back then, considering i was completely clueless)

8.8
11-19-2006, 05:43 PM
here me at my first show in september- i was 138 pounds at 6-7% bodyfat

HeavyBomber
11-19-2006, 05:59 PM
guys this thread is not to debate the use of steroids. Keep it on topic or this thread will be closed.

Oh no. [edit]

jdeity
11-19-2006, 06:01 PM
(edited, ugly topic to be talking about anyways..)

Beast
11-19-2006, 06:02 PM
here me at my first show in september- i was 138 pounds at 6-7% bodyfat
You look great. Look at those hamstrings!

JamesBOMB
11-19-2006, 06:23 PM
here me at my first show in september- i was 138 pounds at 6-7% bodyfat

excellent

8.8
11-19-2006, 06:25 PM
You look great. Look at those hamstrings!



thanks but i was still holding some fat and water im my legs next time i compete i want striated glutes!!!

jdeity
11-19-2006, 07:08 PM
this is going to sound ******ed, but being that i know ZERO about women's stuff, and that this thread IS juiced v. natural, i'm gonna go ahead and ask. Do you use gear? (and don't take that the wrong way, i just don't know how women who compete in that kind of thing go about it. excuse my ignorance plz)

Jordanbcool
11-19-2006, 08:22 PM
She isnt at 6-7% bodyfat either. She'd be dead.

Probably more like 13%

Considering it though thats an extremly low bodyfat as you can see and would be equal to a male having 6-7% :D

I like the body though, looks good. Most female bodybuilders look like crap.

Alex.V
11-19-2006, 09:16 PM
Probably not dead, but probably not feeling very good. lol.

I'd guess around 12-13 as well, probably natural.

8.8
11-19-2006, 09:59 PM
this is going to sound ******ed, but being that i know ZERO about women's stuff, and that this thread IS juiced v. natural, i'm gonna go ahead and ask. Do you use gear? (and don't take that the wrong way, i just don't know how women who compete in that kind of thing go about it. excuse my ignorance plz)



im 100% natural - i ment to put that on there but forgot


I do believe a lot of girls do use gear tho

8.8
11-19-2006, 10:06 PM
She isnt at 6-7% bodyfat either. She'd be dead.

Probably more like 13%

Considering it though thats an extremly low bodyfat as you can see and would be equal to a male having 6-7% :D

I like the body though, looks good. Most female bodybuilders look like crap.



nope I was defianly under 8% for sure I had my body fat tested two or 3 weeks before my show and was 8% and then lost about 5 more pounds. and most of the women pros are around 2 or 3 % bodyfat when the compete


now the figure girls are around 10-12 % when they compete

Jordanbcool
11-20-2006, 07:18 AM
Quotes from Lyle Mcdonalds UD2 diet.

"Healthy bodyfat levels are considered 11-18% for men and 18-25% for women."

"This makes good evolutionary sense, at 5% bodyfat you're basically starving to death"

"First is essential bodyfat, which exists in small quanities in the brain, spinal cord etc. (3% for men and 9-12% for women)." "You can't lose it and if you could you'd be dead". "I should note that you will occasionally see claims of bodyfat percentages less then 3% for men or less then 9% for women. It's not that these folks are lying, so much as the fact that the measurement methods being used arent as accurate as they need to be".

Done and done. Lyle is one of the leading researchers/scientists on the planet. He has huge credibility. I don't doubt him one bit. He even has some articles on WBB.

P.S. Not trying to bust you're chops. Just trying to throw out facts.

jdeity
11-20-2006, 09:34 AM
i'll second seeing bf% tests variating wildly depending on instrument/administrator.

8.8
11-20-2006, 11:39 PM
Quotes from Lyle Mcdonalds UD2 diet.

"Healthy bodyfat levels are considered 11-18% for men and 18-25% for women."

"This makes good evolutionary sense, at 5% bodyfat you're basically starving to death"

"First is essential bodyfat, which exists in small quanities in the brain, spinal cord etc. (3% for men and 9-12% for women)." "You can't lose it and if you could you'd be dead". "I should note that you will occasionally see claims of bodyfat percentages less then 3% for men or less then 9% for women. It's not that these folks are lying, so much as the fact that the measurement methods being used arent as accurate as they need to be".

Done and done. Lyle is one of the leading researchers/scientists on the planet. He has huge credibility. I don't doubt him one bit. He even has some articles on WBB.

P.S. Not trying to bust you're chops. Just trying to throw out facts.



i've read information like that was well and im not saying there aren't side effects, when your body fat is that low you have to wacth out for things like organ failure and going into ketosis, im not saying its healthy by all means , ITS NOT AT ALL, but its possible, for one my body stoped its menstural cycle when my bf got so low- also I felt as if I was in a haze most of the time. my body was baically starving( even though i was consuming 2000 calories a day)- i was not as alert i was not as strong- i couldnt not think as well - that is not a bf % i would ever try to maintain for a long period of time

bloodninja
11-21-2006, 01:28 AM
Here's my natural fat ass.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7191/yeeepoo7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Davidelmo
11-21-2006, 02:32 AM
i've read information like that was well and im not saying there aren't side effects, when your body fat is that low you have to wacth out for things like organ failure and going into ketosis, im not saying its healthy by all means , ITS NOT AT ALL, but its possible, for one my body stoped its menstural cycle when my bf got so low- also I felt as if I was in a haze most of the time. my body was baically starving( even though i was consuming 2000 calories a day)- i was not as alert i was not as strong- i couldnt not think as well - that is not a bf % i would ever try to maintain for a long period of time

How did they measure your body fat?

It's possible to be a different %age in different areas. You may have been under 8% on your abs but your legs dont look below 12 to me.

Still looking very good though, especially for a natural. Was it a natural competition or were you against chemically assisted girls?

Jordanbcool
11-21-2006, 07:34 AM
Here's my natural fat ass.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7191/yeeepoo7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Nice blood.

Alex.V
11-21-2006, 08:02 AM
i've read information like that was well and im not saying there aren't side effects, when your body fat is that low you have to wacth out for things like organ failure and going into ketosis, im not saying its healthy by all means , ITS NOT AT ALL, but its possible, for one my body stoped its menstural cycle when my bf got so low- also I felt as if I was in a haze most of the time. my body was baically starving( even though i was consuming 2000 calories a day)- i was not as alert i was not as strong- i couldnt not think as well - that is not a bf % i would ever try to maintain for a long period of time

I agree, I've maintained a very low bodyfat, and to say you'll keel over and die is hyperbole to say the least. Lyle is actually wrong in that post... essential bodyfat is identical for both genders as far as the fat located in neural tissues and surrounding vital organs (which is essential but not critical...i.e. dangerous but not immediately fatal if gone.). The brain and nervous system weighs around 6-7 pounds all told, (the brain being about 3 pounds), of which around 40% by volume is solid, the plurality of that being fat, which amounts to 2-3 pounds of fat ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM (likely less than half that) in the average human. For me, that's around 0.95% of my bodyweight or some such. So there's 2% to play with before I keel over and die.

The necessary amount of lipid stores in other tissues are very low, and it IS possible for both genders to drop well into the 4% range and survive. I've been there, measured both by dunk tank and bod pod (air displacement). This was at a time where I would nearly black out after going up a flight of stairs. I would get bruising on my butt and soles of my feet from walking or sitting. My immune system was so compromised that I had a scrape on my elbow last a month and contracted a case of strep throat which lasted an equal time, even with antibiotics. At times I would have difficulty putting full sentences together... I'd forget what I was talking about halfway through and wander off.

That last part hasn't changed.

Keep in mind this was on a pure starvation diet aided by DNP and usinic acid.

I don't recommend it. But I guarantee very few people have even been close to that point.

But for most women, dropping below 12-13% is very difficult. Thank estrogen for that, among other factors. For most men, anywhere below 8-9% is tough. In that picture, 8.8, you're most likely around 13%, there's simply not enough definition anywhere to claim single digit body fat. This is not an insult, you look fantastic, but people need to be realistic here.

I do maintain around 7-8% now, which means veins on the abdomen, quads, shoulders, and lats... no fat on my legs, visible striations in my glutes, and only about a quarter to a half inch to pinch (ha! rhyme) in my lower back/love handle area. I was around 6.5-7% for a while, but my stores were so low that I would sometimes get near fainting if I went for more than a few hours without eating.

So really, be realistic about bodyfat. Don't get caught up in the damn number, go by the mirror.

sharkall2003
11-21-2006, 08:13 AM
Here's my natural fat ass.

http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/7191/yeeepoo7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Dude, you don't look fat. You look solid! Mad props. I'm aiming to be about that size, if not bigger.

sharkall2003
11-21-2006, 08:15 AM
8.8 you are very very good looking.

Jordanbcool
11-21-2006, 08:51 AM
I agree, I've maintained a very low bodyfat, and to say you'll keel over and die is hyperbole to say the least. Lyle is actually wrong in that post... essential bodyfat is identical for both genders as far as the fat located in neural tissues and surrounding vital organs (which is essential but not critical...i.e. dangerous but not immediately fatal if gone.). The brain and nervous system weighs around 6-7 pounds all told, (the brain being about 3 pounds), of which around 40% by volume is solid, the plurality of that being fat, which amounts to 2-3 pounds of fat ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM (likely less than half that) in the average human. For me, that's around 0.95% of my bodyweight or some such. So there's 2% to play with before I keel over and die.

The necessary amount of lipid stores in other tissues are very low, and it IS possible for both genders to drop well into the 4% range and survive. I've been there, measured both by dunk tank and bod pod (air displacement). This was at a time where I would nearly black out after going up a flight of stairs. I would get bruising on my butt and soles of my feet from walking or sitting. My immune system was so compromised that I had a scrape on my elbow last a month and contracted a case of strep throat which lasted an equal time, even with antibiotics. At times I would have difficulty putting full sentences together... I'd forget what I was talking about halfway through and wander off.

That last part hasn't changed.

Keep in mind this was on a pure starvation diet aided by DNP and usinic acid.

I don't recommend it. But I guarantee very few people have even been close to that point.

But for most women, dropping below 12-13% is very difficult. Thank estrogen for that, among other factors. For most men, anywhere below 8-9% is tough. In that picture, 8.8, you're most likely around 13%, there's simply not enough definition anywhere to claim single digit body fat. This is not an insult, you look fantastic, but people need to be realistic here.

I do maintain around 7-8% now, which means veins on the abdomen, quads, shoulders, and lats... no fat on my legs, visible striations in my glutes, and only about a quarter to a half inch to pinch (ha! rhyme) in my lower back/love handle area. I was around 6.5-7% for a while, but my stores were so low that I would sometimes get near fainting if I went for more than a few hours without eating.

So really, be realistic about bodyfat. Don't get caught up in the damn number, go by the mirror.

Belial

Theres a huge difference between coming close to dying and being dead. These fat stores are essential fat that you cannot lose if you tried. Think of it this way. If pro bodybuilders at the Olympia could get below 3% dont you think they would? They are judged on muscle and conditioning mostly. Anyone in their right mind would want to be lower then 3% to gain that edge. But even with their steroids and amazing genetics they cannot get that low. Its an absurd claim. Maybe your measurements werent counting essential bodyfat but instead viscal bodyfat. There are four different kinds that we recognize so far.

Anyways under 5% your body starts to shut down, it gets worse as you go. However someone at 3% bodyfat looks totally different then someone at 3% with almost no water in their system (severly dehydrated). Bodybuilders do this to get the most possible cuts and deep sitrations.

I think you may have had a pretty low fluid balance which could easily explain the many health problems, not to mention the extremely low bodyfat. This can also have an effect on some measurements.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=2280540&postcount=9

Alex.V
11-21-2006, 12:36 PM
Belial

Theres a huge difference between coming close to dying and being dead. These fat stores are essential fat that you cannot lose if you tried.

Yes. I know, this is exactly what I was discussing.


Think of it this way. If pro bodybuilders at the Olympia could get below 3% dont you think they would? They are judged on muscle and conditioning mostly. Anyone in their right mind would want to be lower then 3% to gain that edge. But even with their steroids and amazing genetics they cannot get that low.

No, they cannot. I was around 135 pounds of bodyweight at the time, the majority of it being bone, organs, and water. These professional bodybuilders often retain quite a bit of visceral fat, their definition coming from low subcutaneous fat and fluid manipulation. These guys will often dunk tank around 7-8% when appearing to be completely lean (and claiming to be at 2%)


Maybe your measurements werent counting essential bodyfat but instead viscal bodyfat. There are four different kinds that we recognize so far.


I hate to sound patronizing, but believe me, I know. In fact, I mentioned two kinds of fat (Neural and visceral) that are considered 'essential', and mentioned the relative amounts of each which can afford to be lost. I didn't go into specifics, but I thought I was specific enough.


Anyways under 5% your body starts to shut down, it gets worse as you go. However someone at 3% bodyfat looks totally different then someone at 3% with almost no water in their system (severly dehydrated). Bodybuilders do this to get the most possible cuts and deep sitrations.

Somebody at 3% wouldn't likely survive long if they were dehydrated. Bodybuilders, as you stated, don't even get close. At 3-4% I didn't look shredded, I looked skeletal and deathly ill. No amount of fluid manipulation would make much difference.


I think you may have had a pretty low fluid balance which could easily explain the many health problems, not to mention the extremely low bodyfat. This can also have an effect on some measurements.

I appreciate the conjecture, but I certainly didn't need to be told that. The health problems were pretty significant, and if you think I'd make the mistake between low fluid balance and low bodyfat, you give me no credit.



http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showpost.php?p=2280540&postcount=9

I absolutely mean no disrespect here whatsoever, but that link is horrible.



I do appreciate the reply, bro. And I know, certainly, for reader's sakes, many of the points you mentioned are very valid. But in my case, believe me, they were all taken into account.

JHolmes145
11-21-2006, 12:57 PM
No, they cannot. I was around 135 pounds of bodyweight at the time, the majority of it being bone, organs, and water. These professional bodybuilders often retain quite a bit of visceral fat, their definition coming from low subcutaneous fat and fluid manipulation. These guys will often dunk tank around 7-8% when appearing to be completely lean (and claiming to be at 2%)



i was jus curious how long it took you to go from 135 7% bf to your sig that says your 225 7% bf?and did you bulk up and gain alot of bf or did you jus slowly do quality over qunatity?

Alex.V
11-21-2006, 01:49 PM
No, they cannot. I was around 135 pounds of bodyweight at the time, the majority of it being bone, organs, and water. These professional bodybuilders often retain quite a bit of visceral fat, their definition coming from low subcutaneous fat and fluid manipulation. These guys will often dunk tank around 7-8% when appearing to be completely lean (and claiming to be at 2%)



i was jus curious how long it took you to go from 135 7% bf to your sig that says your 225 7% bf?and did you bulk up and gain alot of bf or did you jus slowly do quality over qunatity?

135 4%. I was anorexic, severely. The first thirty pounds came on very quickly... I was around there about a year before I started posting on WBB... whenever that was. So it's been quite a few years, and I never really got above 10%. So... slowly. :)

Bohizzle
11-21-2006, 02:01 PM
135 4%. I was anorexic, severely. The first thirty pounds came on very quickly... I was around there about a year before I started posting on WBB... whenever that was. So it's been quite a few years, and I never really got above 10%. So... slowly. :)
did ending up in the hospital just give u a slap in the face to start eating? did it take a while to get used to eating? awesome dedication to come from that point to where u are now. congrats to u, I had no idea u were that small.

Andrew

Chubrock
11-21-2006, 02:06 PM
The necessary amount of lipid stores in other tissues are very low, and it IS possible for both genders to drop well into the 4% range and survive. I've been there, measured both by dunk tank and bod pod (air displacement). This was at a time where I would nearly black out after going up a flight of stairs. I would get bruising on my butt and soles of my feet from walking or sitting. My immune system was so compromised that I had a scrape on my elbow last a month and contracted a case of strep throat which lasted an equal time, even with antibiotics. At times I would have difficulty putting full sentences together... I'd forget what I was talking about halfway through and wander off.

That last part hasn't changed.

Keep in mind this was on a pure starvation diet aided by DNP and usinic acid.

I don't recommend it. But I guarantee very few people have even been close to that point.






Belial, I've got great respect for what you've done strength wise and the knowledge you have on bio/chem topics. My question is, if you don't mind answering, why'd you get down that low? I noticed you mentioned eating disorders, but didn't know if you were referring to the quote above or not. Just curious as to why you'd take it to the point you did.

Jordanbcool
11-21-2006, 02:28 PM
No offense to anyone but I'm still not really convinced.....sorry.....If you guys want to discuss this more about how low one can go bodyfat wise I'd like a new thread to be made so more of the board can put fourth some input. I'm not calling anyone a liar or anything I just want facts. I don't know the specifics of bodyfat and fluid balance I only know the grand overall picture. I know what I know from research and reading other then that I dont have time to expirement on myself to see whats true and whats not.

8.8
11-21-2006, 02:33 PM
very good information there guys- so maybe i wasnt under 12 maybe i was- its impossible to tell from a picture- those pictures were from the stage they dont really show how my body really looked - i just chose those ones cuz i thought i looked hot lol

Jordanbcool
11-21-2006, 02:36 PM
very good information there guys- so maybe i wasnt under 12 maybe i was- its impossible to tell from a picture- those pictures were from the stage they dont really show how my body really looked - i just chose those ones cuz i thought i looked hot lol

You were still an insanly low bodyfat I think thats the bigger picture. You were in top contest shape. A NORMAL HEALTHY women can carry as much as 25% bodyfat and be perfectly fine/sexy even. What you did is a pretty huge accomplishment. I'm a guy and I'm close to 20% so just call me porker if I get too obnoxious.

lol "I thought I looked hot".

:rolleyes:

8.8
11-21-2006, 02:38 PM
You were still an insanly low bodyfat I think thats the bigger picture. You were in top contest shape.

lol "I thought I looked hot".

:rolleyes:



exactly and next time i compete i plan on being in even better shape

jdeity
11-21-2006, 02:58 PM
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=88526

let's move the bodyfat thign to that link, so we can keep this thread alive, as it's a good thread and shouldn't be derailed.

care_bear
11-21-2006, 03:17 PM
http://i60.photobucket.com/albums/h27/aaronboz/DCFN0001a.jpg

very natural and nearly 6 months at it
only one pic thats recent

galileo
11-30-2006, 05:30 PM
Keep in mind this was on a pure starvation diet aided by DNP and usinic acid.

Was this back in the 135lb days?

Alex.V
12-02-2006, 12:56 AM
Yes indeed. Clothes did fit better back then.

That included women's and children's sizes.

galileo
12-02-2006, 12:39 PM
Yeah, but I bet they were all a nice yellow hue.

Anyhow, that's incredible. Glad the experience didn't kill you.

ebo
12-02-2006, 11:03 PM
A lot of nice physiques in here. Belial, any comparison pics of when you were natural versus now? Any of you other big guys as well....BCC, Narc, RBB, Brawl just to name a few.

derrick
12-04-2006, 10:33 AM
Attached are 2 photos of my workout partner. His guns measure 19"
his thighs 27". He has never touched a growth hormone in his life I know
this for fact. Ironically he is much weaker than I, in fact I can outlift
him by a great deal in every exercise we do. His gift is his ability to build
muscle with very little activity. His downside is his in-ability to loose fat
easily which makes his contest prep/dieting brutal, whereas I have difficulty putting on muscle but can loose fat while eating pizza.

He also gets injured very easily.

Some guys/gals just have exceptional genetics when it comes to putting on size. Most of us have to work hard at it and will likely never get the same sizes without using decent suppliments, but you can do it without using synthetic growth hormones.

Remember it should always be quality over quantity. The guys that juice up simply don't care about their bodies and beleive me I've seen some disturbing side affects from it and then I see kids following the same stupid path just
because they think its cool.

The stuff is:
-expensive
-physcially destructive to your body
-illegal if not done with a prescription.
-And you have to keep increasing the dosages the bigger you get
expodentially increasing the destruction to your organs and bone
structure for that matter.

Arnold S. has had numerous heart bipasses because of his habits
so is that a good role model? Juicers make it on the front covers of magazines
because their freaks and freaks draw attention.

I don't mean to lecture but the bottom line is you don't have to take
the stuff to get bigger especially when you're younger and producing
natural testosterone, you have time on your side..just pay your dues
and do the work, in the end you will have a much healthier and much
better looking body without the extra nipple sticking through the t-shirt.

MY 2 CENTS.





great job guys!!! glad that you could build such great bodies naturally!!!!!!!!! but can we please get some juiced up people in here so that we may see there pictures and compare them to the naturally built ones otherwise this thread is totally useless.

thanks TIGERROAR

p.s. if anyone is bored please PM me. no one has sent me a private message in a long time and i don't know wehy

thanks again
TIGERROAR

galileo
12-04-2006, 10:40 AM
Maybe if he did some "growth hormones" then his legs might be proportionate to his arms.

Jordanbcool
12-04-2006, 11:39 AM
Maybe if he did some "growth hormones" then his legs might be proportionate to his arms.

Hey calm down buddy.

Sike, I think he looks fine. Although a persons choice to juice or not is his own decision, not the governments or anyone else's. If you are forunate enough to have an amazing physique without steroids then you've saved yourself a ton of potential health risks and money to boot.

All the rest of us though, well we arent as lucky ;)

smokinHawk
12-04-2006, 11:44 AM
me all natural (my whole life) at 163lbs after i got done cutting to get to weight for a bench contest last saturday.

Ruffian
12-04-2006, 12:23 PM
I agree with Jordan... If you choose to juice then it is your own choice, just as long as you go into it knowing all the potential effects (good as well as bad).

You can look good without doing steroids, but to some people they would rather look 'better' doing them.

RBB
12-04-2006, 09:06 PM
Maybe if he did some "growth hormones" then his legs might be proportionate to his arms.

agreed. he looks good, but i'd have to doubt those measurements.

derrick - don't try to pass your opinions on AAS off as facts. i think we get enough of that everywhere else without having to read it on WBB.

Alex.V
12-04-2006, 09:27 PM
I don't mean to lecture but the bottom line is you don't have to take
the stuff to get bigger especially when you're younger and producing
natural testosterone, you have time on your side..just pay your dues
and do the work, in the end you will have a much healthier and much
better looking body without the extra nipple sticking through the t-shirt.

MY 2 CENTS.

Don't worry. Nobody pays attention to lectures from the uninformed.

the doc
12-04-2006, 09:53 PM
8.8
I think it was mentioned but unless you had a dunk tank BF test it would be very difficult to know your true BF % (and even that measurement - which is one of the more accurate, practical methods to use has quite a bit of error). Look for things like striations, vascularity, etc. and throw away skin calipers as they tell you what you already know by looking in the mirror.

Belial I know for a fact was a smaller fella when I first met him - how much were you weighing in at then - about 160 or so? The man worked damn hard though, put on a lot of LBM over a couple of years, and finally outgrew those blue sweats... lol

outlawtas
12-08-2006, 02:49 AM
Some guys/gals just have exceptional genetics when it comes to putting on size. Most of us have to work hard at it and will likely never get the same sizes without using decent suppliments, but you can do it without using synthetic growth hormones.

Remember it should always be quality over quantity. The guys that juice up simply don't care about their bodies and beleive me I've seen some disturbing side affects from it and then I see kids following the same stupid path just
because they think its cool.


Wow, you couldn't be any more misinformed.

1. Your body has a natural potential, a weight at which you cannot surpass (being lean). It doesn't matter how hard you work. Keep in mind if your under 220 (and average height) your probably under your genetic potential, so don't jump the gun! Just take a look at the number natural bodybuilder and compare hime to anybody competing for the O. There is no comparison.

2. Guys who juice don't care about their bodies? That's just ignorant.

3. Permanent and "disturbing" side effects come from 1 of 2 things. Lack of knowledge or abuse. I wouldn't put any drug into my body with knowing what it is and what it's going to do, steroids are no different. Obviously if you abuse any drug you will have negative side effects - if you abuse Advil it can kill you.

That being said, there is no evidence to support that conservative doses of steroids used in healthy, adult males causes any long term negative side effects when used properly.

I agree that steroids are definitely not for everyone, and should only be used if you wanna be really big or really strong. You don't need it to be 180lbs ripped.

galileo
12-08-2006, 08:14 AM
Hey calm down buddy.

Sike, I think he looks fine. Although a persons choice to juice or not is his own decision, not the governments or anyone else's. If you are forunate enough to have an amazing physique without steroids then you've saved yourself a ton of potential health risks and money to boot.

All the rest of us though, well we arent as lucky ;)

19" arms and 27" legs sounds like Johnny Bravo.

Beast
12-08-2006, 09:53 AM
Attached are 2 photos of my workout partner. His guns measure 19"
his thighs 27". He has never touched a growth hormone in his life I know
this for fact.
So he doesn't use GH. Any idea how much testosterone he takes?

Jordanbcool
12-08-2006, 04:04 PM
19" arms and 27" legs sounds like Johnny Bravo.

I never got into that. I always thought the show was kinda lame. Although some of the things he said were funny.