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View Full Version : carbless breakfast bad 4 me?



Short N Buff
10-01-2001, 11:46 PM
Right now after 1 year of sucessful pure weighttraining i'm finally starting to change my diet and bulk w/ a lot of calories (strangely i havve more time to fix my diet now that i'm in college!). My breakfast is usually 3 eggs, or 12 fish sticks. today i ate 3 eggs and 5 strips of bacon. in fear that i'm eating a keto diet when i'm actually trying to bulk i have a glass of milk. Is eggs or fishsticks for breakfast not enuf for bulking? Are carbs necessary?

Spiderman
10-02-2001, 05:31 AM
YES!! Carbs are necessary! You've gone for about 8 hours without eating any carbs, if you don't eat some now your workout will probly suffer. When bulking carbs are very important.

The eggs are good...but how many? As for fishsticks...ummm... yuck. They're probly kinda high in fat, I'd get rid of'em. For carbs have your milk and add half a cup of oats in there. That should do nicely. (for added taste throw some sweetner and cinnamon into the oats. ;))

Tryska
10-02-2001, 05:52 AM
i eat a carbless breakfast all the time.....morning snack too...actually i don't actually eat anything vaguely carby til about noon. but then again I'm ona pseudo keto type thing anyways...so you might not want to take my advice.

Manipul8r
10-02-2001, 07:12 AM
CARBS!!!!!!!!!!!! , eat carbs, have so Oatmeal in the morning, or maybe the less healthy english muffin. I usually throw my eggs on one of those Sandwhich Size english muffins, add a bananna and a fruit cup and your set..

Paul Stagg
10-02-2001, 07:30 AM
It depends.

when do you train?

What is the rest of your diet like?

Spiderman
10-02-2001, 08:28 AM
*scratches head* hmmmmm...that breakfast seems familiar Manipul8r....

Cackerot69
10-02-2001, 09:07 AM
You don't need carbs with breakfast unless you train afterwards.

I eat 8 meals a day, only 4 of them contain carbs.

Answer Paul's q's.

Ronan
10-02-2001, 10:42 AM
You need carbs with your breakfast.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Maki Riddington
10-02-2001, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by Ronan
You need carbs with your breakfast.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:


*** Generally speaking I would say that eating carbs in the morning is a good thing. Of course everyone is different so some may find that eating carbs in the morning is not nessecary. Take myself for instance.

syntekz
10-02-2001, 11:00 AM
Well you ain't eat'n carbs anyway Maki; so your input is garbage. J/K. ;)

Paul Stagg
10-02-2001, 11:33 AM
Originally posted by Ronan
You need carbs with your breakfast.

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Why?

Ronan
10-02-2001, 06:58 PM
You have fasted for on average 8hrs while sleeping, cortisol levels are at their highest and blood glucose levels are at there lowest(besides after intense training)

Also fat storage capacity is very low first thing in the morning.

Marcel
10-02-2001, 08:49 PM
Good points there Ronan. The only reason I would see somebody not having some carbs for breakfast would be if they are doing a CKD or TKD.

Cackerot69
10-02-2001, 09:01 PM
Maki you take "everyone is different" waaaaay too far.

Anyhow, it depends on goals.

For fat loss, you WANT blood glucose low. Low blood glucose = high glucagon = fat burning.

I don't see why cortisol would be high in the morning as it's a stress hormone, I wouldn't exactly call sleeping stressful. hGH is released a lot during sleep and it plays a role in both anabolism and fat burning.

Even when trying to gain I think you should try to take advantage of both glucagon and insulin. Which means some meals have carbs and some don't. I've been going on about this a lot lately but it's for good reason. Separate your carbs and fat. Take advantage of both glucagon and insulin, anabolism and fat burning, etc.

If you don't eat carbs in a meal, then eat fat with that meal. I eat 8 meals/day 4 of them contain bout 40-50g of protein, 50-70g carbs of and little fat (less than 10g). Then the other 4 have 40-50g of protein, 0-10g of carbs, and 30-40g of fat.

Working pretty ace as of now, my metabolism seems to be through the roof from this...which I don't quite understand but oh well.

degsta
10-02-2001, 09:07 PM
I'm with Ronan, in the morning cortisol levels ARE at their highest when compared to normal activity throughout the day.

There are probably a host of factors other than stress as to why cortisol is released Cack.

Marcel
10-02-2001, 09:10 PM
Cacker is so right...I always separate my carbs from my fats. I got all the way to 195(LOL might not seem like much but 2 years before I was 140 something!) or so even when I had platued at around 180 something then I started separating and I felt much better. Once I'm done with this ckd I'm gonna go back to the same separating carbs from fats. Works great give it a shot. :thumbup:

Cackerot69
10-02-2001, 09:12 PM
Perhaps higher, but definately not highest. Anyway, what makes you think carbs are the only way to blunt cortisol?

Marcel
10-02-2001, 09:13 PM
Of course right now I'm not eating any carbs(except on the weekend) cuz of the ckd. And of course talk is cheap so I will post some pics once I'm done with this ckd.

Marcel
10-02-2001, 09:15 PM
Maybe cuz you havent eaten in like 8 hours? :(

degsta
10-02-2001, 09:20 PM
I don't think carbs are the ONLY way to blunt cortisol....they'd help though.

Just throwing some facts out there.

Cackerot69
10-02-2001, 09:30 PM
All food blunts cortisol.

If you ate a cow turd it would blunt cortisol.

If those are facts then provide references.

degsta
10-02-2001, 09:31 PM
Shouldn't be that hard to find this info...it came off the top of my head.

You surf the net, you do it.

Cackerot69
10-02-2001, 09:36 PM
That's what I thought.

degsta
10-02-2001, 10:16 PM
http://www.aeiveos.com/diet/melatonin/mlref/reproduction/94120296.html


This isn't even where I heard about cortisol levels during sleep, but this backs it up.

I'm sure I can find more.

Paul Stagg
10-03-2001, 08:00 AM
Interesting.

Carbs are most certainly NOT the only way to blunt cortisol. Further, I'm not so sure cortisol levels will be an issue at all if you are eating enough (of anything).

I still don't see why you HAVE to eat carbs in the morning. (please note, I am not suggesting it is better to not eat them, just pointing out that this is not black/white)

BTW, I looked at that study. It backs up nothing said in this thread.

the doc
10-03-2001, 09:27 AM
I agree with cackerot
Cortisol is relatively high in the morning (as hgh output is highest in the first few hours of sleep) but is greatly elevated by not eating breakfast (the stress is from the fasting state effect). ANd food will alleviate this problem.
carbs are not necessary for breakfast.

Cackerot69
10-03-2001, 01:59 PM
I'm not a mother of term and preterm infants, dunno about you ;)

I'm sure it is higher, but not highest, or high enough to really matter.

degsta
10-03-2001, 02:55 PM
My original statement if you read carefully was cortisol levels are highest in the morning during NORMAL day activities. That study backed it up.

I wasn't even trying to argue about carbs to begin with.

Paul Stagg
10-03-2001, 03:12 PM
"Salivary cortisol concentrations were significantly higher in the mothers of preterm infants than in the mothers of term infants throughout the 10-week study period, but the peak in salivary cortisol concentrations occurred between 2 a.m. and 10 a.m. in both the term and preterm groups."

Where does it say normal? The study was done on new mothers, who are quite possibly suffering from all sorts of things that don't happen to everyone else (sleep deprivation and lack of a sound diet would be the two big ones I can think of)

That's an 8 hour range, that happens to be 'in the morning'. Meaningless with respect to our discussion.

Don't want to harp on this, but it is a pet peeve of mine.

Ronan
10-03-2001, 03:45 PM
Putting all studys aside dont you actually feel like ****/alot weaker if you dont eat carbs in the morning Paul? I certainly do.

Cackerot69
10-03-2001, 04:25 PM
Actually, I felt best on a diet containing less than 20g of carbs.

Then again, I'm not Teen musclemania champ 2000.

:)

Spiderman
10-03-2001, 04:27 PM
Get ready......


Here it comes....


Are ya ready??


Bet you're not......












I agree with Ronan. ;)

Cackerot69
10-03-2001, 04:29 PM
Your point?

Ronan
10-03-2001, 04:31 PM
EXACTLY Cack! I am the champ and your the punk

So shut your trap and listen to me;)

Cackerot69
10-03-2001, 04:38 PM
Don't make me pay someone to kick your ass.

degsta
10-03-2001, 04:56 PM
Paul, what's your take on the cortisol levels after sleep without breakfast since it seems you want to knit pick a reference I found in 5 min which can't hurt my original idea?

Please provide a reference for good measure if you oppose my stance.:)

Maki Riddington
10-03-2001, 05:52 PM
Originally posted by the doc
I agree with cackerot
Cortisol is relatively high in the morning (as hgh output is highest in the first few hours of sleep) but is greatly elevated by not eating breakfast (the stress is from the fasting state effect). ANd food will alleviate this problem.
carbs are not necessary for breakfast.

*** HGH is highest at around 1-2 am in the morning.
It is even more elevated if you can hold out for more than 12 hours.
Eating breakfast would need to be defined as a specific time.

Paul Stagg
10-04-2001, 08:38 AM
You all are not getting my point.

I nitpick the study becasue that's what I do when studies that have no bearing on the conversation at hand are used. The particular study posted has nothing to do with what we are talking about.

I didn't dispute that cortisol levels are high in the morning after fasting for 8-10 hours. They probably are.

What I suggested was that ANY food, regardless of what it is, will help alleviate that problem. NOT a fact, just my educated opinion.

Further, what I'm nitpicking (and it is nitpicking, I'm not saying anyone is totally off base here), is the carbohydrates are somehow NECESSARY as part of the first meal of the day. They are not.

Are you better off if you eat carbs in all of your meals (assuming you are not keto dieting)? Probably. Do you HAVE to? Certainly not.

See, I'm nitpicking the certainty.

Ronan, I feel fine if I just eat meat and fat for breakfast. I've experimented with waiting until my 3rd meal of the day to eat carbs, worked just fine.

Now, if Ronan feels like crap if he doesn't eat carbs in the morning, by all means, he should eat carbs inthe morning. That doesn't make it a hard and fast rule, which seems to be what some of you are saying.

Cackerot69
10-04-2001, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by Paul Stagg
Are you better off if you eat carbs in all of your meals (assuming you are not keto dieting)?Probably.

Bollox.

Paul Stagg
10-04-2001, 09:13 AM
See, I'm totally fine with disagreement.

That's just my opinion. I have no idea if it is true or not. Seems logical to me. Certainly doesn't make it a hard and fast rule.

Cack disagrees.

Obviously, Cack is wrong. I'm bigger and stronger. :)

Cackerot69
10-04-2001, 09:19 AM
Haha, ace.

:dj:

pwb69
10-11-2001, 08:42 PM
u absolutely DONT need carbs for breakfast, nor do u need much carbs to put on quality muscle. Unless you have a super fast metabolism, you'd be better off putting on muscle with a fairly low carb intake, unless you want to put on a lot of fat. If you dont respect my opinion just ask Dr. Mauro DiPasquale, Dr. Eric Serrano, Dr. Carlon Colker, Charles Poliquin, etc. I don't eat carbs for breakfast and I have more energy than I've ever had in my life. Eggs and bacon are good, but the bacon should be nitrate free since it is carcinogenic. Fats and Protein are KEY to putting on quality muscle, dont let anyone fool you otherwise. You can carb load which helps, but dont get into the habbit of overdoing the carb thing unless you want to, its absolutely not necessary.

Wizard
10-12-2001, 11:38 AM
Why going from the one edge to the other and not trying to understand the real facts?....

I don't agree with the ones who claim that a high carb diet is the best for your health and your performance nor with the ones that claim that high fat or protein diets are the best diets....