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Decent
03-21-2004, 08:24 PM
I've read a few dozen threads here about HIIT, but I'm not as familiar with Max OT Cardio. From my understanding, you basically work on a stationary bike, stair stepper or treadmil for 16 minutes and gradually add resistance. Am I way off?

Which method do you guys think is best for fat burning? What routines are yall on for either?

gopher
03-22-2004, 09:52 AM
Either is good. I like to alternate between HIIT and MaxOT style cardio sessions. I'd much rather have a short very intense cardio session than to plod along for an extended time at lower intensity. I believe that burning 500 calories in 20 minutes is much more benificial than burning 500 calories in 40 minutes. There are 2 reasons for this. One is that the shorter higher intensity workout will have a much greater and longer lasting effect on your metabolism. Each workout burned 500 calories but the more intense workout will cause you to burn more calories through out the rest of the day. Secondly, Higher intensity cardio sessions are more benificial to your cardio vascular health.
Oh, and third, higher intesity workouts get me off of that damn bike or stepper that much quicker!

the doc
03-22-2004, 10:03 AM
if you are looking to improve your vO2 max then you will want to perform endurance type cardio. If you are looking to work your heart for shorter durations then either max-ot or HIT

Deathwish
03-22-2004, 10:36 AM
I like HIIT because of how quick it is and how good I feel after doing a session

aka23
03-22-2004, 12:59 PM
if you are looking to improve your vO2 max then you will want to perform endurance type cardio. If you are looking to work your heart for shorter durations then either max-ot or HIT

I would generally expect HIIT to produce more rapid increases in VO2max than endurance cardio. For example Tabata's HIIT study described at http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8897392&dopt=Abstract found a 14% improvement in VO2max in only 6 weeks. Tabata said that, "the rate of increase in VO2max [14% in only 6 weeks] is one of the highest ever reported in exercise science."

The exact rate of improvement will vary tremendously depending on the type of endurance cardio or HIIT performed. Generally training at an intensity near your VO2max produces more rapid improvements in your VO2max than lower intensity sessions. Noakes suggests that the especially rapid changes with sprint training (HIIT) are related to neural changes, in addition to metabolic adaptions. Note that VO2max is primarily determined by genetics, not training. Healthy persons training for endurance events (usually includes some sprint training, along with the endurance training) typically increase their VO2max by 5-15% comparing untrained to trained states. The full range may vary from as little as 0% to as much as 60%. Other measures of fitness and performance change more dramatically than VO2max.

KingJustin
03-22-2004, 01:49 PM
That's pretty interesting, Aka ... and from experience that probably seems to be true. Over the years running cross country my VO2Max improved, but I always thought it was a limiting factor. My endurance and such saw much more significant changes.

As far as the original question, I think that MaxOT cardio is going out for about 16 minutes and running that 16 minutes without pacing yourself -- going as hard as you can through the whole thing. I don't think the amount of time ever changes though the distance you covered will. I may be wrong about this and I apologize if this is so.

Decent
03-22-2004, 05:08 PM
if you are looking to improve your vO2 max then you will want to perform endurance type cardio. If you are looking to work your heart for shorter durations then either max-ot or HIT
I'm looking to lose fat


As far as the original question, I think that MaxOT cardio is going out for about 16 minutes and running that 16 minutes without pacing yourself -- going as hard as you can through the whole thing. I don't think the amount of time ever changes though the distance you covered will. I may be wrong about this and I apologize if this is so.
Yeah, that doesn't seem right. I don't see how anyone could go for 16 minutes running as fast as they can. You'd have to pace yourself to last that long.

Thanks for the replies

aka23
03-22-2004, 06:02 PM
That's pretty interesting, Aka ... and from experience that probably seems to be true. Over the years running cross country my VO2Max improved, but I always thought it was a limiting factor. My endurance and such saw much more significant changes..

I think VO2max can become a limiting factor at elite/competition levels, but there are many other factors. It is important to distinguish between VO2max and VO2max pace. VO2max is a measure of maximal oxygen uptake and is usually expressed in mL O2/kg*min . It is difficult to get an accurate VO2max measure outside of a laboratory environment. VO2max is a relatively poor predictor of performance compared to other things that are easier to measure, such as the max speed reached during a VO2max test (VO2max pace). This pace depends on running technique, body mass index, and many aspects of cardiovascular fitness besides VO2max. Endurance and most other key measures of cardiovascular fitness have a potential for greater improvement than VO2max.

Spartacus
03-22-2004, 06:35 PM
is vo2 a good measure of how healthy your heart is?

KingJustin
03-22-2004, 06:54 PM
Interesting Aka, thanks.


What is Max-OT Cardio?

Max-OT Cardio can be described as ultra-high intensity cardio performed in 16-minute sessions and performed progressively from session to session. What this means, and itís very important, is that each proceeding cardio session should be more intense than the one before. In other words, you should expend more energy (burn more calories) during every new 16-minute Max-OT Cardio session.
http://www.ast-ss.com/articles/article.asp?AID=97
(This was just a short excerpt)

CraigVA286
04-03-2004, 03:03 PM
I like HIIT because of how quick it is and how good I feel after doing a session


I agree, i feel stoned after an intense HIIT workout lol

Spartacus
04-16-2004, 11:35 PM
is vo2 a good measure of how healthy your heart is?

bump

Canadian Crippler
04-16-2004, 11:37 PM
I agree, i feel stoned after an intense HIIT workout lol Haha, same. I feel good, thats after everyything starts like zooming in very fast :P

PiKappaWRX
04-16-2004, 11:45 PM
Yeah, that doesn't seem right. I don't see how anyone could go for 16 minutes running as fast as they can. You'd have to pace yourself to last that long.

Thanks for the replies

Well that's what it is...you go as hard as you can for 16 minutes. they chose 16 minutes as the time because it is believed that 16 minutes is a short enough time that one will not have to pace themselves. you go balls out for 16 minutes, and keep doing better and better each time. the first time you do it you don't go all out though, only about 75-85%, then its 100% each session from there. and you have to keep increasing intensity with each session, whether it be in terms of distance or cals burned

JSully
04-17-2004, 12:41 AM
Well that's what it is...you go as hard as you can for 16 minutes. they chose 16 minutes as the time because it is believed that 16 minutes is a short enough time that one will not have to pace themselves. you go balls out for 16 minutes, and keep doing better and better each time. the first time you do it you don't go all out though, only about 75-85%, then its 100% each session from there. and you have to keep increasing intensity with each session, whether it be in terms of distance or cals burned

holy ****..

id only last 2 minutes balls out as hard as i can go.... you think that will actually increase endurance as time goes by so that i can eventually go 16 minutes balls to the wall?

thatd be amazing.. i'd be shredded.. lol

aka23
04-17-2004, 07:53 AM
is vo2 a good measure of how healthy your heart is?

Vo2max is only a measure of maximal oxygen uptake. There are much better measures of cardiac health. Vo2max increases with a roughly linear relationship with the stroke volume of your heart, ignoring the effects of training on the response level of maximal stroke volume. It depends on many other factors including age, gender, training, altitude, and genetics. There is a weak correlation with various measures of cardiac health, as well as lifespan.

PiKappaWRX
04-17-2004, 09:12 AM
if only i knew what vo2max was, i'd know what this thread was about...

ryuage
04-17-2004, 10:08 AM
do a search.

aka23
04-17-2004, 06:02 PM
I've read a few dozen threads here about HIIT, but I'm not as familiar with Max OT Cardio. From my understanding, you basically work on a stationary bike, stair stepper or treadmil for 16 minutes and gradually add resistance. Am I way off?

Which method do you guys think is best for fat burning? What routines are yall on for either?

The link Bizatch listed decribed Max OT Cardio as using a 16 minute interval program at a high intensity on a cycling machine, starimaster, or similar device. This type of high-intensity interval program is a form of High-Intensity Interval Training (HIIT). Most 16 minute interval programs would probably involve a series of 1 minute work periods and 1 minute rest periods. Longer intervals like this tend to be better for glycogen depletion and lactate accumulation. This influences body composition and offers a nutrient partioning benefit.

Spartacus
04-17-2004, 07:57 PM
Vo2max is only a measure of maximal oxygen uptake. There are much better measures of cardiac health. Vo2max increases with a roughly linear relationship with the stroke volume of your heart, ignoring the effects of training on the response level of maximal stroke volume. It depends on many other factors including age, gender, training, altitude, and genetics. There is a weak correlation with various measures of cardiac health, as well as lifespan.


what would you consider a good measure of cardiac health and what sort of excercise would be best for that?

NaturalBuilder
04-17-2004, 09:55 PM
This should be a sticky.

aka23
04-18-2004, 01:22 PM
what would you consider a good measure of cardiac health and what sort of excercise would be best for that?

When most people say "cardiac health" they mean the risk of having a heart attack. Decent measures of this risk include medical tests such as a lipid profile or serum homocysteine. I suspect you mean a fit and well-trained heart. A well-trained heart is larger in size, has a larger stroke volume, and has a lower resting heart rate. There are several aspects of this type of fitness. Measures might include things like maximum cardiac output, maximum cardiac work that can be done over a given time period, and pulse recovery rate. I think it is more important to compare changes over time in such measures rather than absolute values since they depend on many variables other than training that vary from person to person.

I think the most efficient way to improve this type of fitness would be to train at high intensities near ones lactate turnpoint. I would include both intervals of a variety of lengths, and longer, fixed-pace type sessions. I would recommend that beginners start out by focusing on duration and slowly work they way up to higher intensity sessions. While higher intensities sessions result in the most rapid adaptations, they also present a higher risk of overusage/"overtraining", injury, and interference with weightlifting sessions. At some point it does not become practical to continue to try to increase intensity/distance/time/calories burned with each session, unless frequency of training is very low. Mark Allen (has won the 226-km Hawaiian Ironman Triathalon many times) said, "Do more faster really only worked for those so talented that their genetics were going to override the lunacy of their training and take them on to greatness anyway." I avoid doing higher intensity or higher impact (running) sessions on sequential days. Athletes in carido sports often vary intensity over longer periods and incorporate some type of periodization into their training.