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vasu
03-22-2004, 02:50 PM
Hey everyone, I'm new around here and just learned about things such as casein and Nitrean. I had a few questions about using Nitrean.

I read an article on wannabebig called "Whey Vs. Casein" in which the author states that since casein gels in the stomach, taking it at the same time as whey will nullify the desireable quick absorbing properties of whey.

My question is if this is in regard to pure whey and casein in food, or in supplements too? For example, since Nitrean has both whey and casein in it, will the casein cause the whey not to be quickly absorbed?

If the case is that it will be ok and the whey will be absorbed quickly and then the casein will be absorbed slowly for the time being after that, could you please explain how and why you are able to do this, i.e., keep the casein from gelling and keeping the whey from being absorbed.

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Next, when are the best times in the day to take it? I've been told before to take casein in the morning and at night, and whey right after a workout. If I switch to Nitrean, do I just use this after a workout, do I also take it in the mornings and before bed? Should I take it less, or more? Also, will I need a plain pure whey protein for right after workouts?

I'm on a low carb diet and a lot of the substitues I use (such as low carb breads, tortillas, flour, etc) are made with soy flour so really high in protein. For example, I get about 25 grams of protein for breakfast eating soy cereal and a cup of sugar free yogurt. And I usually have between 40 and 60 grams of protein for either lunch of dinner (sometimes more). I can easily get up to 100g of protein just from eating, without shakes.

I usually lift in the afternoons between lunch and dinner, although sometimes I lift a couple hours after dinner.

So given the times when I eat, and what I eat (about 40-60 grams of protein from meat, dairy and soy at every meal), when would be the best times to take Nitrean.

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The last question is about what's in Nitrean besides the 3 forms of protein? In the ON Whey proteain I take now there are the following:

Calcium 150 mg
L-Leucine 2470 mg
L-Isoleucine 1520 mg
L-Valine 1440 mg
L-Lysine 2120 mg
L-Methionine 440 mg
L-Phenylalanine 670 mg
L-Threonine 1720 mg
L-Tryptophan 240 mg
L-Alanine 1380 mg
L-Arginine 480 mg
L-Aspartic Acid 2490 mg
L-Cystine 440 mg
L-Glycine 530 mg
L-Histidine 400 mg
L-Proline 1540 mg
L-Serine 1240 mg
L-Tyrosine 590 mg
Glutamine 3870 mg

I couldn't find information on if those things were in Nitrean, so if they are, can you tell me if they are and in what quanities?

Sorry for all the questions, I always ask a dozen questions before I buy any product, and I picked up so much info in the past few days that i'm not throughly confused :)

Thanks for any answers that any of you may have about this!

-vasu

chris mason
03-22-2004, 04:23 PM
Hey everyone, I'm new around here and just learned about things such as casein and Nitrean. I had a few questions about using Nitrean.

I read an article on wannabebig called "Whey Vs. Casein" in which the author states that since casein gels in the stomach, taking it at the same time as whey will nullify the desireable quick absorbing properties of whey.

*************He is right, but not giving the whole story. He is right in that casein combined with whey will attenuate the quickness of absorbtion of whey. There are other desirable properties of whey which will not be affected, and the absorbtion of the whey should still occur more quickly than that of the casein.

Of course, the whole issue of whey absorbtion is essentially moot because it assumes that the individual is consuming the whey on a completely empty stomach. In real life this doesn't happen. People eat meals throughout the day and those meals can take up to several hours to empty the stomach and duodenum. Thus, when they take their post-workout shake they are most likely not doing so on a completely empty stomach and duodenum (even if they think they are). Any food in these organs will slow the digestion of whey and make the whole issue moot.


___________________________________________
My question is if this is in regard to pure whey and casein in food, or in supplements too? For example, since Nitrean has both whey and casein in it, will the casein cause the whey not to be quickly absorbed?

If the case is that it will be ok and the whey will be absorbed quickly and then the casein will be absorbed slowly for the time being after that, could you please explain how and why you are able to do this, i.e., keep the casein from gelling and keeping the whey from being absorbed.


**************Read my explanation above. This "gelling" is not an absolute that "captures" every ounce of chyme in the stomach.

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Next, when are the best times in the day to take it? I've been told before to take casein in the morning and at night, and whey right after a workout. If I switch to Nitrean, do I just use this after a workout, do I also take it in the mornings and before bed? Should I take it less, or more? Also, will I need a plain pure whey protein for right after workouts?


**********************The whole timing issue is an overhyped load which is promoted by most who sell protein. It is more of a marketing gimmick and really only makes sense in laboratory conditions. If you eat 3 or more meals a day the timing of your protein intake is much less important than the overall quantity. I take my protein with a smoothie at lunch and then right before bed. You can take Nitrean post-workout and whenever else you feel it is prudent.

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I'm on a low carb diet and a lot of the substitues I use (such as low carb breads, tortillas, flour, etc) are made with soy flour so really high in protein. For example, I get about 25 grams of protein for breakfast eating soy cereal and a cup of sugar free yogurt. And I usually have between 40 and 60 grams of protein for either lunch of dinner (sometimes more). I can easily get up to 100g of protein just from eating, without shakes.

I usually lift in the afternoons between lunch and dinner, although sometimes I lift a couple hours after dinner.

So given the times when I eat, and what I eat (about 40-60 grams of protein from meat, dairy and soy at every meal), when would be the best times to take Nitrean.


*********** I would suggest you take it before bed. Depending on your weight and the amount of protein you are trying to ingest daily, you could then spread it out when it is convenient for you throughout the day.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The last question is about what's in Nitrean besides the 3 forms of protein? In the ON Whey proteain I take now there are the following:

Calcium 150 mg
L-Leucine 2470 mg
L-Isoleucine 1520 mg
L-Valine 1440 mg
L-Lysine 2120 mg
L-Methionine 440 mg
L-Phenylalanine 670 mg
L-Threonine 1720 mg
L-Tryptophan 240 mg
L-Alanine 1380 mg
L-Arginine 480 mg
L-Aspartic Acid 2490 mg
L-Cystine 440 mg
L-Glycine 530 mg
L-Histidine 400 mg
L-Proline 1540 mg
L-Serine 1240 mg
L-Tyrosine 590 mg
Glutamine 3870 mg

I couldn't find information on if those things were in Nitrean, so if they are, can you tell me if they are and in what quanities?

Sorry for all the questions, I always ask a dozen questions before I buy any product, and I picked up so much info in the past few days that i'm not throughly confused :)

Thanks for any answers that any of you may have about this!

-vasu

****************Now you are making me work. I have to get the amino acid profile from our R&D guys. I should have it for you by tomorrow.

vasu
03-22-2004, 04:55 PM
Thanks for the replies! How much protein do you think I should be getting per day? I weigh 210 and am trying to build up a good ammount of muscle, nothing too crazy and intense, just look good. I read somewhere to consume in a day my weight in pounds, in grams of protein. But 210g of protein seems excessive, should I be getting that or less, or more?

When I take the ON Whey protein shake right after a workout, it makes me feel immensly better and soothed. More so than if I just drank water and took vitamins. So I like the idea of taking a shake right after a workout.

Will the Nitrean be fast absorbing enough after a workout?

Also you mentioned quanity is important... should I use 1 or 2 scoops.

And again, thanks for all the answers. I'm just debating what flavor(s) to get. Are you guys planning any other flavors in the future?

-vasu

NateWheeler
03-22-2004, 05:54 PM
you should probably get around 350-400 grams of protein a day.

vasu
03-22-2004, 07:08 PM
woah! really? That seams like a lot of protein, is there a chance it could make me fatter? In that quanity, is there any chance of it being really hard on liver, or esp. kidneys?

I was also told that the body can only process 1000 calories a day of protein, which works out to 250g of protein. Any truth to this?

-vasu

Jasonl
03-22-2004, 10:20 PM
you should probably get around 350-400 grams of protein a day.
I think that is probably unnecessary for the average person, the old 1g/lb seems to be a good rule to live by. A little extra won't hurt though.

Optimum08
03-23-2004, 12:50 AM
:withstupi

im about 200/205lb. ish and im tryin to get about 200/205g of protein per day, but a lil extra won't hurt as Jasonl said...

chris mason
03-23-2004, 05:42 AM
Give this article a read, it explains our position on the subject of protein ingestion:

http://www.atlargenutrition.com/proteinrda.php


For the time being we are going to stick with chocolate and vanilla flavoring for our proteins. Our next flavor addition will probably be strawberry, but that will not be for some time.

The number of scoops you should use will depend on what you decide to take daily and how often. Read the article, order the product, and then come back to us if you have any questions.

chris mason
03-23-2004, 09:34 AM
Here is our amino acid profile per serving of Nitrean:

Alanine 1.1g
Arginine .8g
Aspartic Acid 2.26g
Cystine .46g
Glutamic Acid 3.0g
Glycine .5g
Histidine .52g
Isoleucine 1.38g
Leucine 2.33g
Lysine 1.93
Methionine .59g
Phenylalanine .97g
Proline 1.44g
Serine .93g
Threonine 1.3g
Tryptophan .39g
Tyrosine .90g
Valine 1.34g
Ornithine .33g

vasu
03-23-2004, 11:47 AM
Spiffy! One last question...

How does your Vanilla taste compared to ON's Vanilla? Their vanilla is "vanilla ice cream" and I hate it because it tastes like melted cafeteria ice cream

-vasu

Y2A
03-23-2004, 01:15 PM
Spiffy! One last question...

How does your Vanilla taste compared to ON's Vanilla? Their vanilla is "vanilla ice cream" and I hate it because it tastes like melted cafeteria ice cream

-vasu

Kinda like coffee creamer IMO, its good... I dont like the taste of ON, this At Large I like.

vasu
03-23-2004, 05:56 PM
chris i just sent you a PM ... i'm having an issue ordering

dxiw
03-23-2004, 07:56 PM
0.8g/BW is all you need, less if most of that BW is fat... no point in going above 0.8g unless your a pro BB or huge. insane protein will lead u too liver/heart/kidney problems from the protein

Saint Patrick
03-24-2004, 01:33 AM
0.8g/BW is all you need, less if most of that BW is fat... no point in going above 0.8g unless your a pro BB or huge. insane protein will lead u too liver/heart/kidney problems from the protein

Got any studies to back that up, or did you just hear it somewhere?

chris mason
03-24-2004, 05:25 AM
0.8g/BW is all you need, less if most of that BW is fat... no point in going above 0.8g unless your a pro BB or huge. insane protein will lead u too liver/heart/kidney problems from the protein


I completely disagree with your assertation. There are so many variables involved that to make a blanket statement like that is silly.

In addition, you shouldn't repeat statements as though they are fact when you don't really understand what you are saying. You have no idea why the person/group that made the statement you are regurgitating came to that conclusion, do you? If not, you might say in the future something along the lines of "I have read that...".

vasu
03-24-2004, 03:39 PM
heh, zing.