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View Full Version : any non-ephedra ECG stack ?



J_C
04-08-2004, 03:36 AM
Any ideas for a any nonephedra -ECG stack ? that will work when trying to lose fat

JC1

Khar
04-08-2004, 11:39 AM
replace ephedra with synephrine

geoffgarcia
04-08-2004, 01:17 PM
when you say ECG what exactly are you referring to?

ECA is the typical stack, and I have yet to see any information that there is a better stack.

If your anti E then synephrine is the latest hot buzz word.

Do a little DD on google and let us know what you come up with.
In my short reading it doesn't appear that there is any meaningful data on its weight loss benefits to humans.

here are some interesting articles
http://www.bodyandfitness.com/Information/Weightloss/Research/synephrine.htm
http://www.philkaplan.com/thefitnesstruth/synephrine.htm
http://www.getbig.com/articles/ephed1.htm

Shao-LiN
04-08-2004, 01:29 PM
I believe he is talking about green tea extract.

geoffgarcia
04-08-2004, 01:39 PM
Scientists at the University of Chicago's Tang Center for Herbal Medicine Research have found that a major chemical component of green tea caused rats to lose up to 21 percent of their body weight. Rats injected with epigallocatechin gallate (EGCG) derived from green tea leaves lost their appetites and consumed up to 60 percent less food after seven days of daily injections.

rats injected with EGCG had lower levels of testosterone (70 percent less in the bloodstream) and insulin.

EGCG was less effective when rats were given the substance orally. "This may be because of poor absorption of EGCG or possibly because of an interaction with food," said Liao. The researchers also found that EGCG reduced abdominal and subcutaneous (just under the skin) fat, and blood levels of lipid, glucose and cholesterol, but did not appear to cause liver damage.

Although oral administration of EGCG was ineffective even after 14 consecutive days of large doses, Liao thinks that long term oral consumption may mimic some of the results obtained with injection.

"A person would have to drink green tea almost constantly to obtain these results," said Liao. "And since some of the hormonal changes we saw in the rats could have negative effects, especially in younger people, I don't recommend drinking large quantities of green tea for everybody. Much more research needs to be done," cautioned Liao.
The University of Chicago Medical Center
http://www.uchospitals.edu/news/2000/20000223-tea.php

Ebu
04-08-2004, 04:09 PM
WAIT! I love drinking green tea. Aren't there other effects it has, that are positive?

Spartacus
04-12-2004, 04:01 PM
if it made them eat less than half as much as before, that is going to **** with their hormones. so there is no reason to say egcg affects hormone levels in humans.

Dedicated
04-12-2004, 04:14 PM
if it made them eat less than half as much as before, that is going to **** with their hormones. so there is no reason to say egcg affects hormone levels in humans.
I read the entire study and they had a second set of rats which they "starved" just as much as the EGCG rats, and the rats who took the EGCG still had negative hormonal effects. In other words, the ECGC does cause negative hormonal effects. Personally I would never supplement with it after reading that.
Overall though ephedrine is probably alot worse, so I guess it just depends on what you are willing to do to lose that fat etc.

Shao-LiN
04-12-2004, 05:05 PM
I read the entire study and they had a second set of rats which they "starved" just as much as the EGCG rats, and the rats who took the EGCG still had negative hormonal effects. In other words, the ECGC does cause negative hormonal effects. Personally I would never supplement with it after reading that.
Overall though ephedrine is probably alot worse, so I guess it just depends on what you are willing to do to lose that fat etc.

Personally, I wouldn't bother with green tea cus I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference in the long run. But you shouldn't get all psyched out cus of a study done on rats. Find one done on humans that has those results and then be worried.

ryuage
04-12-2004, 05:17 PM
doesnt gree tea promote a lot of health benefits...

Spartacus
04-12-2004, 07:01 PM
well this is turning into the same thread as http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?p=765633

and yeah green tea has many health benefits.

chris mason
04-12-2004, 07:23 PM
That's right, just because a rat experiences something doesn't mean you will. Animal studies often do not translate to humans.

Shao-LiN
04-12-2004, 09:09 PM
doesnt gree tea promote a lot of health benefits...

Yes, but I was speaking more towards its thermogenic and fat loss aspects in terms of not bothering with it.