stupid newbie Q's

[jazer80]

alright, i'm very new to anabolics, i've used winstrol and durateston (sustanon 250) once, and responded well (actually only to the sustanon, the winstrol didn't work too well for me, but that could've been probs with the gear). Anyways... i want to do a cycle again, and don't know a dealer anymore. which leads me to a choice between M4AD, M1T, and methyldienolone. Now i'm reading that M1T causes tiredness, and it can be substantial, which i cannot deal with. what do you guys think about M4AD, in regards to gains and how hard it is to stay on cycle. again i know info on this is in bits and pieces but i want some info from people w/ experience relating them

[fen2zla]

This is just my opinion, but judging from your other questions on the WBB forums I dont think your experienced enough, or even at the stage where you should even be considering using that kind of stuff.

Like I said, thats just my opinion.

[BUFF STUFF]

Agree with fen

[Reloader]

Dude..Im 30 years old and just now considering anobolics.read..research and EAT..EAT..TRAIN..TRAIN..and to answer your question. Ive been on M1T for 2 weeks now getting ready to cycle off.I have noticed considerable strength gains and added a few pounds of lean mass. But it does make me lethargic and moody ..somewhat depressed even.. havent been real sleepy though.

[jazer80]

ya i've been reading that which is why i don't want to go for the m1t. fen/buff, i know that the typical advice for someone my age is to just eat and lift, but i am set on doing another cycle. i'm not saying i definitely disagree with you, but what really makes the difference between whether or not i'm ready? I was only thinking of 1 mg of methyldienolone daily, and have taken cycles before and know i can handle them. i seldom drink, and have a great diet, training routine and rest. is it because i'm 20?

[jazer80]

and i've been lifting seriously for six years (about)

[Reloader]

yup..your age is what i was getting at..you should have enough natty test in your blood at 20..your hormones and test should be running like a freight train!!!! I know mine was a 20..but everyone is different..in the end its your choice..good luck bro!!

[jazer80]

i know it's not the greatest to do it at my age but doing only 1mg doesn't seem too bad to me relatively. so you're saying not to do any kinds of cycles at all right?

[fen2zla]

so you're saying not to do any kinds of cycles at all right?

Correct, thats what we are saying.

And, like I said in an earlier post, I dont think you have the experience to even consider a cycle at this stage, judging from your questions on this board.

[jazer80]

when you guys are talking about 'experience', what do you mean by that? how does taking more cycles get me ready moreso for another?

[jazer80]

if that's what you meant by experience

[jazer80]

what age would you recommend starting at? you guys wouldn't happen to have any links to literature or sites regarding age / cycles would you? (i'm not at all disagreeing with you, just trying to get a better pro / con worked out before i decide on anything)

[Reloader]

Whats up man..to sum it all up..it depends on your goals. I have been training on and off since i was 19 years old. back then I was a thin kid who was ripped to shreds..i would ay my abs had a good 1/2 inch cut in them but iwas slim for my height..i was 6'2 175lbs..I was in the USAF so I couldnt get gear because I was tested regulary and had no knowledge of where to get them anyway..over the years I gain around 65lbs of muscle..note this has taken 10 years to do..im around 235 now and have decent build im pround of...just now at age 30 i feel i have plateued(sp) and im considering gear...my dream is to be 275 of ripped lean mass..its MY goal and i have made up my mind to try gear..but i have read and researced anabolics for a few years now and just have come across a reputable supplier...all im saying is give your genectics a chance before you go the syntectic router..you never know..you might be that 1 out of a million who can get huge on your own...just be careful..im not trying to sound like your dad or anything..Ive just seen alot of young men screw themselfs up due to being misinformed...and from my research..1 mg of dbol a day wont do much...ask questions..take advice in consideration..and resaerch..God be with ya man..I hope you fullfill your dreams..I hope you becnh 500lbs like its paper wt. someday.....you sound like a dude who has the ambition to do it!!!!! and onec again Ill say it one more time for good mesure...EAT..LIFT..EAT CLEAN!!!!!!! :soapbox: :read: :thumbup:

[Shark]

Perhaps you need it spelled out a little more clearly.

Don't mess with gear or prohormones till at least, (at least, at least) 21. At least. Then i would say go about it with extreme caution.

Don't mess with gear or prohormones until you understand what they are, how they work, why they work, what happens to your body, and what sides you may and probably will experinence. When people say you don't have enough experience what they are saying is that you need to learn more before you decide to take that stuff. You might say, "but that's why i am asking questions, so i can learn more." To that i answer, you need to read and understand a lot more about the products before you ask which one to take. Honestly if you did the research you really shouldn't have to ask except for confirmation on what you already thought was correct.

[jazer80]

reloader: i know i'm not one of those people. as i said earlier i've been lifting for many years, and have actually experimented before. and i'm not taking dbol it's methyldianalone, which is a prohormone (methylated), and i've read it's supposed to be similar to winstrol/parabolan (sp?)
crussow: that's funny because i'm actually gonna be 21 in 1mo 1 day, so i'm jumping the gun by two weeks by the time the stuff arrives. i think i'm gonna go for it, and gonna do 1mg/day.

Thanks again you guys for the info, i know it seems kinda rash but i'm gonna chance it, and if **** happens then it does. probably already has anyways from sustanon

[fen2zla]

I still stand by my earlier comments, but I wish you good luck with the cycle.

[Shark]

Fool.

[EdgarMex]

Turning 21 doesn't automatically makes you ready to use PHs/AAS. With experience the other guys mean knowledge of training, diet and the PHs/AAS you are going to use. If you're not prepared to use them all you'll get is a lighter wallet and possibly health problems. Just my $.02

[BigMatt]

What at 155 and 20 ? I understand if your 4.7 feet tall!But man You gotta Eat.

[jazer80]

crussow - why would you say i'm a fool when in like 3 weeks i'm going to be in your designated 'alright to use w/ caution' area? i'm just asking for advice, and you said yourself that i could go about it w/ extreme caution, now you say i'm a fool cuz i'm gonna take 1mg / day? OK..... thanks for your words of wisdom.

[jazer80]

347d1sc- i'm like 5'6'', and ridiculously low bodyfat, but i cannot manage to make weight stick. i've had good results with cycles in the past, and have tons of training experience. the only issue is the age factor, which i just haven't found to be risky enough to merit not taking a light cycle.

[jazer80]

and edgar - i know 21 isn't a real 'barrier', it's just something someone said earlier. as stated i have a lot of training experience, and some anabolic experience, and an incredible diet, routine, and am very, very healthy all around. i think i'm gonna take some b4 / after pics. since i'm so damn skinny i show small gains in muscle real well. and yes, i'm done posting repeatedly for now

[Shark]

an incredible diet, routine, and am very, very healthy all around.

No jazer80, that statement is not correct. If it were you would realize that you don't need prohs/aas to make big gains. You're unwilling to go on a proper bulk. Don't ask for advice and then get upset when everyone tells you what you don't want to hear. If you mind is closed why post to begin with?

[fen2zla]

What at 155 and 20 ? I understand if your 4.7 feet tall!But man You gotta Eat.

Exactly. Theres no 'easy' way out. Taking a cycle isnt going to help if your diet isnt in order. I know that you said that your diet was excellent, but after 6 (or however long you said you were training for) years of consistent weight training, and adequate diet, you should have put a lot more weight on.

[jazer80]

i've been training for a very long time, since freshman year wrestling in high school, and i'm a junior in college. i have not worked out 100% continuously, but have most of the time. I didn't have the nutrition part down that whole time, but even after i got that down i barely went another 8 pounds. right now i weigh 154, and to give you an idea of why i think i'm a hardgainer is that i wrestled at 140 (but my body would have been low 40's if i weren't cutting for wrestling) in high school in my junior year of high school, which is a little over 4 years ago. and in addition, through those four years i have grown taller, so it's not like that's all muscle

[jazer80]

but as said before, my diet is great, i take in optimal types / amounts of food, and know how to train right and rest / recover properly. anyways...... i think this thread is done because it has just turned into an arguement. i'll let you guys know how it turned out in the end (i'm planning on having before / after blood work/ pics)

[geoffgarcia]

how many calories, protein, fat, carbs do you take in on an avg day?
how many will you be taking in on cycle?
will you be dosing with any creatine/aminogen/hmb or any other supps?
What are you using for PCT?
What is your current bf?

while I don't know anything about AAS I do know that at 5'6 there is no reason you should weigh what you do unless your diet sucks...putting on weight is merely a matter of calories. If you eat more you'll gain weight and your muscles will grow, plain and simple.

[DragonRider]

i've been training for a very long time, since freshman year wrestling in high school, and i'm a junior in college. and in addition, through those four years i have grown taller, so it's not like that's all muscle


And that would be the evidence that you are not eating enough.

Remember, the definition of insane is to keep doing the same thing the same way and expect different results. No matter how many times you watch "Titanic", the boat still sinks in the end.

Change your diet!

It takes 10 to 15 pounds of added bodyweight to put 1 (one) inch on your arms.

[jazer80]

my diet is huge. i'm taking around 3800k/day. it's almost all whole food, maybe 800 out of the 3800 is weightgainer/protein (if even that much). besides that it's just creatine, vit C, E, multi, fish oils, and sometimes eca b4 workouts. you know to be fully honest i haven't checked my ratios in a bit, but it's generally 40 40 20, it's very balanced.

[DragonRider]

my diet is huge. i'm taking around 3800k/day. it's almost all whole food, maybe 800 out of the 3800 is weightgainer/protein (if even that much). besides that it's just creatine, vit C, E, multi, fish oils, and sometimes eca b4 workouts. you know to be fully honest i haven't checked my ratios in a bit, but it's generally 40 40 20, it's very balanced.

Bro, 3500 calories a day is an average diet. That's what it takes for a couch potato to maintain his current weight.
ECA stacks are for losing weight. You wouldn't want to take one when you are trying to gain, especially if you have a fast metabolism.

[jazer80]

i said 3800, which is totally enough for someone who weighs 154. or at least that's what i've been told, that's like 24k/lb. the eca's are just for pre workout energy, i usually just take 1 pill (servings are 2) right before workouts, so like 5 pills total weekly. i'm actually on my last few of those, gonna get just caffeine next.

[jazer80]

as a matter of fact i've been told on these boards that i need 18k/lb/day, i'm taking in like 30% more than that

[fen2zla]

Well if your not making any weight gain, increase your calorie intake to 4000 or so. Keep increasing it until you are putting on a pound (or so) a week. And drop the ECA.

[geoffgarcia]

Well if your not making any weight gain, increase your calorie intake to 4000 or so. Keep increasing it until you are putting on a pound (or so) a week. And drop the ECA.
amen!

and its not a "ratio" that matters...
its how much of each your getting...

if your not gaining weight then boost your fats up.
your probably taking about 80ish g a day now, try going up to 120 or 130.
Also, how can you be sure how many calories your getting if your not counting them?

[jazer80]

i am gaining some weight, just not fast at all. i thought that was why you would take hormones in the first place, is to speed up the rate... or if you're old and don't have much test any more. boosting my fats will help me gain muscle? i know because i have a very good routine, where i eat around the same time every day, and i don't have very much variety (well, enough variety that i'm not eating just chicken, but not so much that daily values are jumping around). i count once in while to make sure i'm still on track and i usually am, and on when i'm not right around 3800 i'm over it

[Brownie]

Your very young and your metabolisim is very high you are going to find it hard to but on wieght and by the sounds of things your thin naturaly. but really at your wieght there is a lot room for natural gain before you think of using gear, i'm 29 and on my first cycle but got to 180lb @17%bf before i tried anything and even this is not very good,
Really give it another veiw years and do more research

[DragonRider]

i said 3800, which is totally enough for someone who weighs 154.

I knew that. My point was to demonstrate that you are only 300 cals above average.

But, the most important thing is this. The evidence of whether or not you are taking in enough calories, is whether or not you are gaining weight. This may not be what you want to hear.

I had the same problem when I was your age. I thought I ate a buttload of food. Mostly because my parents and everyone else I knew thought that I did. When I went in the military, I could eat as much as I wanted for the first time in my life. Most people lose weight in basic. I went from 155 to 175 in 8 weeks. When I got to my first duty station, I worked night shift. I would eat breakfast when I got off duty then set my alarm for noon and go eat lunch. Then I would go back to the barracks and sleep for 3 or 4 more hours and get up and go eat supper. Then I would eat a large lunch at night while I worked. In about 9 months I went from 155 to 205.

[HahnB]

In addition to what everybody else said-if you are truely ready for anabolics(mentally) the only questions you should have would be very technical ones. Other than that your research should answer all the rest for you.

[jazer80]

well you guys convinced me not to, thanks for the advice. i've been thinking though, what about the tier beneath prohormones, stuff like tribulus, 60x0, etc. Should i stay away from those too (or are they not even worth the time)?

[BigMatt]

stay away from prohormone, what is your height?
I forgot, Your chick is hot!

[jazer80]

tribulus + 60x0 are prohormones? i'm 5'6'' / 5'7''

[jazer80]

347 - she's from ur neck of the woods

[jazer80]

someone? are they prohormones that i should stay away from / even effective?

[Shark]

What is really going to be effective for you is what we told you in the beginning of the post. Up your food consumption. If you trainging and rest really is good then the only thing holding you back is going to be the amount of food you take in.

Prohormones are not necessary (regardless of their safety and effectivness) at your training level because you are not anywhere near reaching your genetic potential. Once you start taking cycles you are going to find that its much harder post cycle to add mass naturally than it was pre-cycle. You will regret using at such an early age/physical maturity level.

What you really need to go is get off the supplement train. So many people our age (i'm 22 btw) are convinced by all of our friends at school and the dudes at the supplement store that you absolutly need creatine, glutamine, muscle milk, phosphagen, ZMA, or whatever else it is that they happen to have overstocked. The truth is you need good clean food, protein shakes, and maybe creatine if you really want to take it, and a good multi vitamin. Outside of those things you need to train and sleep.

I know i was a big rude with you before but its frustrating to have several people repeatedly posting the same thing and to have you continualy refusing to listen. I'm glad you chose not to cycle and i hope you will refrain from doing so untill you have more experience (the right kind) under your belt.

[BigMatt]

Get Protein whey, ****load of Food, Creatine(if you really want to Get a supplement), + Hardtraining+ Good Sleep= Big Gain.

No other bull**** product,zma,gluta**** all those things are crap

[Shao-LiN]

i said 3800, which is totally enough for someone who weighs 154. or at least that's what i've been told, that's like 24k/lb. the eca's are just for pre workout energy, i usually just take 1 pill (servings are 2) right before workouts, so like 5 pills total weekly. i'm actually on my last few of those, gonna get just caffeine next.

Your body doesn't look at your calculator. If you aren't gaining, eat more. Just because it's enough for other people doesn't mean that it is for you.

[Shark]

Get Protein whey, ****load of Food, Creatine(if you really want to Get a supplement), + Hardtraining+ Good Sleep= Big Gain.

No other bull**** product,zma,gluta**** all those things are crap

So basically what I said :).

[chris6969]

i am gaining some weight, just not fast at all. i thought that was why you would take hormones in the first place, is to speed up the rate... or if you're old and don't have much test any more. boosting my fats will help me gain muscle? i know because i have a very good routine, where i eat around the same time every day, and i don't have very much variety (well, enough variety that i'm not eating just chicken, but not so much that daily values are jumping around). i count once in while to make sure i'm still on track and i usually am, and on when i'm not right around 3800 i'm over it

Your answer is right there.... you ARE making gains.... you're just being impatient.

Be patient, the slower gains that you make naturally will stick. The fast synthetic gains you make will most likely fade quickly. Unless you "re-earn" them naturally after the cycle. Now if you had made 0 gains in over a year. I would say maybe you're stuck at a plateau (or natural barrier your body wants to stay below) and you might need to hit a little juice to get you past it. But if you're making any gains at all, even if sometimes nothing for a few months, stick with it. BTW, if you're very lean 8-12% BF you probably need a lot of fat in your diet. But try good fats... like olive oil.

However, I found I made my best gains at 19-21 (strength and weight) when I was eating 2-3 big sloppy triple cheeseburgers from burgerking, etc. Anything and everything. I did put on a little bit of fat, but you need some to bulk up. Thats why people have "offseasons" where they get "fat" to bulk up. If you're too lean its harder to gain muscle.

BTW, the only "supplement" that I think works well is Creatine. I think most pro-hormones are bullcrap!

[jazer80]

actually i work at a supplement store, and have access to really cheap tribulus, and i know that people expect supplements to make up for sub par eating, training, etc, but was thinking since i shouldn't be taking prohormones, maybe tribulus would have been something that would be effective yet pretty safe.

[chris6969]

I just looked at your journal, you're ripped. Nice abs.... makes me pissed off at my flabby abs! >:/ I'm going to some cardio and crunches :(

You're lean, so you probably need a decent amount of fat in your diet. It will give you a little more energy for longer, better work outs.

[jazer80]

so tribulus is going to hurt my natural test production too? i know you guys think it's worthless but i'm getting it for next to nothing (if it's not gonna hurt me), and i know no one thinks it's 'worth it' but there's things it does i've read besides muscle, namely increased sex drive, which i'd get a kick out of. i work at gnc, and i know we got rid of all prohormones, so i'm assuming it's safe for me to take, unless someone knows otherwise. (again i do not think it's gonna make me huge)

[chris6969]

Like I was saying I think its bull****, but I dont think it would necessarily hurt you.

At your age you shouldnt need a test boost. Your natural HGH and Test should be fairly high already. Unless you've already messed it up (temporarily) with cycling and not taking proper PCT (post cycle therapy)

Take Creatine. Thats all you need. Try OptiATP I've had some good results with it. Keep good written records of your work out weights. And work on gradually increasing weights. WIth increased strength will come increased size. Keep reps fairly low, and every other week finish with a high rep burn out (like 15-20 reps until complete failure)

Keep the exercises simple. bench, military presses, squats, etc. Dont do complex rotating exercises like Arnold presses.(asking for a shoulder injury)

About once a month do some negatives (on benchpress) take 10-20% above your 1 rep max and just go down as slow as you can with it. Then someone helps you lift it back up. That will help stimulate your other non-muscle tissues to grow to keep up with the added weight you're attempting. (tendons ,etc)

[jazer80]

no i know it's bull as far as weight gains, i've read a lot on these boards, but people do seem to be in agreement it enhances sex drive. mine is at least average right now, so i guess i don't know what exactly i'm trying to accomplish here, maybe just fuk like a rabbit? well i started them today, gonna stop if (and prolly when) it becomes an interference when i'm not 'in the proper situation'

[jazer80]

oh i'm already taking creatine, about 2-3 g/day, and keeping track of workouts. actually keeping track a little less now because i don't have access to the gym over the summer and i'm using home equip which needless to say sux

[chris6969]

you need a home gym like mine.... http://www.masterofeverything.com/weightroom.asp

[jazer80]

ya that'd be nice, but i live in 1 bedroom apt., so limited to incl/decl bench w/o barbell spot, just bench w/ leg attachment + adj. db's that only hold 60 each