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jazer80
05-06-2004, 10:05 AM
i just want to make sure - ass to the floor is the right way right? someone was trying to tell me that parallel or slightly past it was better for your knees, but i thought i read somewhere that was wrong. can't find where that was now. in lifting comps you have to go atf right?

Anthony
05-06-2004, 10:24 AM
Go to at least parallel, but other than that it depends on whether you compete or not.

jazer80
05-06-2004, 10:29 AM
i don't compete at all (only with myself :) but i just want to do what is best for my muscles, and moreso what's best for my joints. right now i am going down as low as i can possibly go, but i always see people using more weight than me, but only going down to parallel (if that - i hate seeing people who i know aren't even strong throwing on 2 45's and going down a few inches). i know i feel it more in my knees going all the way down, but i want to say i was told that develops them better. i just don't wanna wreck my knees, because i know people with knee problems (not from liftin) and they suk

justhrowit
05-06-2004, 03:42 PM
i don't compete at all (only with myself :) but i just want to do what is best for my muscles, and moreso what's best for my joints. right now i am going down as low as i can possibly go, but i always see people using more weight than me, but only going down to parallel (if that - i hate seeing people who i know aren't even strong throwing on 2 45's and going down a few inches). i know i feel it more in my knees going all the way down, but i want to say i was told that develops them better. i just don't wanna wreck my knees, because i know people with knee problems (not from liftin) and they suk


SQUATTING IS NOT BAD FOR YOUR KNEES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chicker
05-06-2004, 03:47 PM
I just go parallel (or a couple inches lower). I used to go all the way, and my knees would crack on the way up, and it was grossing me out. lol...Anyway, I've been doing fine just going parallel, so it works for me.

I went to a powerlifting competition, they all went ass to floor. I spoke to a few, and a couple didn't train going all the way down.

I don't know, it's one of those things that everyone disagrees on, I think. My gym teacher has told us absolutely never to go all the way down, but tons of people do.

EDIT: I just spoke to someone (who competes) about it, and they said that as long as you warm up properly, going all the way is fine...but if you aren't competing, then parallel (or a little lower) will do.

drew
05-06-2004, 03:52 PM
just remember, parallel is probably much lower than you think it is. If you can go rock bottom without any problems, why not do it? I'm not saying go ATF or nothing at all, but if you want the maximum benefit, use the maximum ROM.

DontGiveUp
05-06-2004, 04:22 PM
Just don't bounce your hamstring off of your calves. This is the only place you may run into a problem.

drew
05-06-2004, 04:32 PM
Well, if you're bouncing, you probably aren't in control of the weight, so yeah that's a definite sign that you're going to have a problem.

Anthony
05-06-2004, 05:00 PM
Define bounce.

biggimp
05-06-2004, 07:18 PM
whoever said you need to go ATF in competition lied. theres no way to tell whether you are all the way down or not. to have your squat count in competition, the top of your knee and your hip joint have to form a line parallel to the ground. basically your thighs need to be parallel to the ground. some people actually call this ATF. lol.

jazer80
05-06-2004, 09:49 PM
wait - so you're saying that it doesn't really matter at all, and that neither way is posing a greater risk of knee injury (or any risk at all)? i mean i guess if i don't go all the way down i'll be able to add weight which will work most of the muscle better (not all of it as i'm not going through my full range of motion)

DontGiveUp
05-06-2004, 10:52 PM
Define bounce.

It's ok if the calf and hamstring touch.

The problem arises if you still moving downward after they touch. The muscles are both flexed and only allow so much cushion before the knee joint get's "pulled apart"(for lack of better words). This is where micro tears in tendons and ligaments happen.

biggimp
05-07-2004, 09:28 PM
wait - so you're saying that it doesn't really matter at all, and that neither way is posing a greater risk of knee injury (or any risk at all)? i mean i guess if i don't go all the way down i'll be able to add weight which will work most of the muscle better (not all of it as i'm not going through my full range of motion)

you only really hurt your knees if you stop above parallel.

SW
05-14-2004, 08:07 PM
:evillaugh i go atf and love it. i think it's the best squat workout to be had. parallel is good, but i feel like i've shortchanged myself unless i can squat down no furthur. tip: if u think that u lose your balance when u try to go atf when u squat, try widening your stance

BigRic
05-14-2004, 09:01 PM
I don't think it's really about the distance you go down, I mean I go to just before parallel and I find that this really works my hamstrings and quads really well, of course I use quite heavy weight when doing this.

biggimp
05-14-2004, 10:25 PM
well, the point is, you need to go to parallel or below. why don't you? just so you can use more weight? although it seems like you work your legs enough and that you are just a little bit above parallel, you are missing out on a huge part of your workout. i know guys that squat 400 pounds just above parallel, and only 350 or less when they go parallel. this shows how important and how much of a factor those 2 inches are. you NEED to go parallel. unless you don't want to give your legs the full workout or you want to hurt your knees.

BigRic
05-15-2004, 04:16 PM
But I train for football and NEVER, ever, ever in a game will I go below parallel. or even parallel. I'm going to try front atf squats today though.

bmanderson
05-15-2004, 04:32 PM
Here's a good article on squatting:

MORE ON THE SQUAT
By Dick Conner

Posted on NaturalStrength.com on June 20, 1999

I have for the last few years become a strength coach who does not always favor the squat--not because it will not bring you at least as much or more size and strength than any other movement, but because I see so few people who do it right. There are so few who do understand that, no matter what you do, you have to work it hard, very hard.

Most who do the squat believe it is what will make them big and strong. They don't think enough about HOW they do what they are doing.

If you do squats correctly, then you will go down below parallel, turn around at the bottom with great control, and return to the standing position.

If you do not go down below parallel, then you will not get the results you should, which is more power and size in the hip and low back.

If you do not turn around to come back up with good control (in other words, if you bounce out of the bottom), then you will not work the hip as hard as the low back, and if you bounce out of the bottom, in time you will without a doubt hurt your back and knees.

Another problem with the squat is having good leverage; some do,..some don't. If you don't, you will find it much harder to do a correct squat.

Again, the squat is a great movement if done correctly, but it is very seldom that I hear why it is better than a Hammer Leg press. And while I stated I do not favor it for most people, it's not because it does not have more to offer than the leg press.

The squat brings into play more muscle than does the leg press in that it works the thigh, hamstring, hip, and low back. During the leg press, the low back is supported, and therefore the low back does not get direct effect but gets only indirect effect.

The squat done correctly directly affects more muscle fiber than any other movement. The trouble is, many people do not have the proper coaching and/or leverage to do the squat correctly. If you do partial squats and compare it with a leg press, thinking you are building more strength, you are wrong. Only when you go deep enough in the squat will you bring all the fibers into play to make the squat superior. And when you do go deep enough, you had better do it right or risk back injury.

And, while on the subject of the squat, the correctly done squat is probably the best pure thigh movement going--but it must be done with proper style, no jerking, bouncing and yanking.

Once again, the squat is a great movement for those few who do it right, but it is not the only way to get where you are going.

bmanderson
05-15-2004, 04:47 PM
'But I train for football and NEVER, ever, ever in a game will I go below parallel. or even parallel. I'm going to try front atf squats today though."

That's faulty reasoning-- training is to make the muscles stronger and larger, not to mimic the exact movement performed in a particular sport. Yes, you squat down while playing football, but that doesn't necessarily mean it should dictate your ROM while training. (Unless you are playing against a team of barbells that happen to rest on your traps).

A full ROM will work the musclature harder, will hit it more comprehensively, and ultimately, make for a stronger body-- which should make you a better equipped athlete.

BigRic
05-15-2004, 07:48 PM
Disregard anything I said I hit ATF today and man it got the whole quad, but my hamstrings and butt weren't really feeling fatigued but I guess we will see tommorow.