Cycle,Diet,and training info for me im a newb!!

[magicgear]

Hello here we go I am 22 y/o 19% bf 5 foot 11 and 197 lbs. this is my first cycle i start on monday:

Cut strength cycle:
week 1 - 60mcg clen a day and 200mg of deca durabolin
week 2 - 80mcg clen a day and 200mg of deca
week 3 - 100mcg clen a day and 300mg of deca
week 4 - 50mcg cytomel a day and 400mg of deca
week 5 - 50mcg cytomel a day and 400mg of deca
week 6 - 100mcg cytomel a day and 300mg of deca
week 7 - 100mcg cytomel and 60mcg of clen a day and 200mg of deca
week 8 - 80mcg of clen a day and 200mg of deca
week 9 - 100mcg of clen a day thats it

Training:
Day 1-chest and back
superset (1)
bench press 2-3 sets at 15 reps
seated row 2-3 sets at 15 reps
superset (2)
pulldown to front 2-3 sets at 15 reps
incline press 2-3 sets at 15 reps
superset(3)
Cable crossover 2-3 sets at 15 reps
dumbbell pullover 2-3 sets at 15 reps
and cardio 45 mins

Day2:
Legs:
Superset(1)
leg press and lying leg curl at 2-3 sets at 15 reps
superset(2)
seated leg curl & stationary lungeat 2-3 sets at 15 reps
superset(3)
leg extension & seated calf raise at 2-3 sets at 15 reps
and cardio 45 mins

Day3
shoulders and arms:
superset(1)
seated dumbbell press & seated dumbbell curl 2-3 sets at 15 reps
superset(2)
upright row & triceps pressdown at 2-3 sets at 15 reps
superset(3)
standing curl & bench dip at 2-3 sets at 15 reps
and cardio 45 mins
Day4
(off) except cardio

Day5
(off)

day6
start over

Diet::

meal 1-- 10 am
1/2 cup oatmeal (dry)made with water
1/2 cup strawberries
6 egg whites with 1 yolk
and 2 glasses water

meal 2--12 am
1 cup green beans
8 oz chicken breast
and 2 glasses water

meal 3-- 3 pm
tuna sandwich using 6 oz. can of tuna in spring water
2 slices whole wheat bread (organic bread)
1 tbsp fat-free mayo
2 leaves of romaine lettuce
and 2 glasses water

meal4-- 5 pm
protein shake pro complex 55gr with milk
and 2 glasses of water

meal5-- 8 pm
chicken salad with 8 oz chicken breast
2 tbsp. italian dressing
1/2 medium tomato
2 leaves romaine lettuce
1/2 cup broccoli
and banana
2 glasses of water

TOTAL OF 1,959 CALORIES/ 254 G PROTEIN/132 G CARBS/37 G FAT/ AND 20 G FIBER

PLEASE FEEL FREE TO LET ME KNOW ANY THOUGHTS THX EVERYONE SORRY FOR THE LONG POST!!!!!!

[thetopdog]

I don't think you need to taper the Deca, if anything, look into the way you're tapering the T3 and the clen becuase those are the 2 things (Especially T3) that you really need to taper

And look into something (novla, clomid, HCG, anything) to get your balls back to producing natural test when the cycle's over

[tony touch]

****ty cycle.

your goals seem to be to lose weight and maintain some sort of muscle mass. at 5"11 197 lbs at 19 percent bodyfat, you've got a lot of work to do before sauce is an option.

your first cycle should not include cytomel....period. i have way more experience than you do and you couldnt pay me to **** around with my natural thyroid levels no matter what some internet guru tells u.

your diet blows. only 5 meals? ****ty...whether your bulking or dieting, shoot for 8 (u need what we call a metabolism). bump the protein up by another 100 grams to around 350. get your fat up to over 100 grams (EFAS). drop your carbs to only postworkout(50 grams simple) and morning (25 grams complex)....pound lots of green raw vegetables(not included in the carb count)...include a tablespoon of olive oil with each meal. drink a gallon of water a day. drink black coffee with 2-3 of your meals.

be consistent

[restless]

your diet blows. only 5 meals? ****ty...whether your bulking or dieting, shoot for 8 (u need what we call a metabolism). bump the protein up by another 100 grams to around 350. get your fat up to over 100 grams (EFAS). drop your carbs to only postworkout(50 grams simple) and morning (25 grams complex
be consistent


5 meals is plenty. NO need to bother with 8 at all. And the protein is ok too.

[tony touch]

yes there certainly is a need to bump it up to 8 meals a day and switch his macronutrient ratios around. 5 meals is not plenty. if you want to add a few protein shakes in the mix, thats cool but 5 meals will not cut it.

[restless]

yes there certainly is a need to bump it up to 8 meals a day and switch his macronutrient ratios around. 5 meals is not plenty. if you want to add a few protein shakes in the mix, thats cool but 5 meals will not cut it.


Are you saying that provided calories and macronutrient ratios are the same 8 meals will provide better results?

How come?

If you tell me that in a caloric deficit the feeding frequency may influence the amount of LBM loss, then yes, but in a caloric surplus, there's no evidence whatsoever that you gain anything by eating 8 as opposed to 5.

You mention "getting a metabolism". What do you mean?

Do you have any evidence that 8 meals will increase thermogenesis over 5 or something like that?

If so I'd like to see it.

[restless]

Here's something for you Tony:

Studies number 1,2,3 found no effect in diet-induced thermogenesis and/or in average daily metabolic rate resulting from increased meal frequency.

Study number 4 makes a case for NOT eating one single meal a day as opposed to 5 in a slight hipocaloric diet as this may have a slight impact in protein metabolism as shown by the increased nitrogen excretion. No difference in bodyweight but I speculate there were probably differences in the fat free mass lost.

Study number 5 goes along the same lines as 4, but confirm that two meals only on a severe calorie restriction diet will result in increased muscle mass loss as opposed to six a day.

I could not find the one that showed a decrease in protein synthesis with extremely frequent feedings though, which would be the best to use in this argument.



"1-Effect of the pattern of food intake on human energy metabolism.

Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Westerterp KR, Kester AD.

Department of Human Biology, University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.

The pattern of food intake can affect the regulation of body weight and lipogenesis. We studied the effect of meal frequency on human energy expenditure (EE) and its components. During 1 week ten male adults (age 25-61 years, body mass index 20.7-30.4 kg/m2) were fed to energy balance at two meals/d (gorging pattern) and during another week at seven meals/d (nibbling pattern). For the first 6 d of each week the food was provided at home, followed by a 36 h stay in a respiration chamber. O2 consumption and CO2 production (and hence EE) were calculated over 24 h. EE in free-living conditions was measured over the 2 weeks with doubly-labelled water (average daily metabolic rate, ADMR). The three major components of ADMR are basal metabolic rate (BMR), diet-induced thermogenesis (DIT) and EE for physical activity (ACT). There was no significant effect of meal frequency on 24 h EE or ADMR. Furthermore, BMR and ACT did not differ between the two patterns. DIT was significantly elevated in the gorging pattern, but this effect was neutralized by correction for the relevant time interval. With the method used for determination of DIT no significant effect of meal frequency on the contribution of DIT to ADMR could be demonstrated.



2-Frequency of feeding, weight reduction and energy metabolism.

Verboeket-van de Venne WP, Westerterp KR.

Department of Human Biology, University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.

A study was conducted to investigate the effect of feeding frequency on the rate and composition of weight loss and 24 h energy metabolism in moderately obese women on a 1000 kcal/day diet. During four consecutive weeks fourteen female adults (age 20-58 years, BMI 25.4-34.9 kg/m2) restricted their food intake to 1000 kcal/day. Seven subjects consumed the diet in two meals daily (gorging pattern), the others consumed the diet in three to five meals (nibbling pattern). Body mass and body composition, obtained by deuterium dilution, were measured at the start of the experiment and after two and four weeks of dieting. Sleeping metabolic rate (SMR) was measured at the same time intervals using a respiration chamber. At the end of the experiment 24 h energy expenditure (24 h EE) and diet-induced thermogenesis (DIT) were assessed by a 36 h stay in the respiration chamber. There was no significant effect of the feeding frequency on the rate of weight loss, fat mass loss or fat-free mass loss. Furthermore, fat mass and fat-free mass contributed equally to weight loss in subjects on both gorging and nibbling diet. Feeding frequency had no significant effect on SMR after two or four weeks of dieting. The decrease in SMR after four weeks was significantly greater in subjects on the nibbling diet. 24 h EE and DIT were not significantly different between the two feeding regimens.(ABSTRACT TRUNCATED AT 250 WORDS)

Eur J Clin Nutr. 1990 May;44(5):389-95. Related Articles, Links


3-Effect of meal frequency on the thermic effect of food in women.

Kinabo JL, Durnin JV.

Institute of Physiology, University of Glasgow, Scotland.

The effect of meal frequency on the thermic effect of food (TEF), also referred to as dietary induced thermogenesis (DIT), was investigated in eighteen non-obese female subjects. Their metabolic rate before and after consuming the test meal was measured by open circuit indirect calorimetry using the Douglas bag technique, while the subjects were in the resting state (lying down). Eight subjects consumed a high carbohydrate-low fat (HCLF) meal providing 70, 19 and 11 per cent of the energy content from carbohydrate, fat and protein, respectively, and ten other subjects consumed a low carbohydrate-high fat (LCHF) meal providing 24, 65 and 11 per cent of the energy from carbohydrate, fat and protein, respectively. On two separate occasions, each subject consumed the appropriate diet either as one large meal containing 5040 kJ (1200 kcal) or as two smaller meals each containing 2520 kJ (600 kcal). TEF values were calculated for 6 h after the test meal and the mean values after consuming the HCLF meal were 377.0 +/- 30.0 kJ (90 +/- 7.2 kcal) and 381.0 +/- 26.5 kJ (91.0 +/- 6.3 kcal) for the one meal and the two meals, respectively. The mean TEF values for the subjects who consumed the LCHF meal wre 356.0 +/- 23.0 kJ (85.0 +/- 5.5 kcal) and 340 +/- 15.9 kJ (81.0 +/- 3.8 kcal) for the one meal and the two meals, respectively. No significant differences were found between the two feeding regimens (HCLF, P = 0.94; LCHF, P = 0.64) as well as between the compositions (P = 0.57). Thus, meal frequency and meal composition did not seem to influence the TEF.

4-[Thermogenesis in humans after varying meal time frequency]

[Article in German]

Wolfram G, Kirchgessner M, Muller HL, Hollomey S.

To a group of 8 healthy persons a slightly hypocaloric diet with protein (13% of energy), carbohydrates (46% of energy) and fat (41% of energy) was given as one meal or as five meals in a change-over trial. Each person was 2 weeks on each regimen. Under the conditions of slight undernutrition and neutral temperature the balances of nitrogen, carbon and energy were assessed in 7-day collection periods, and according to 48-hour measurements of gaseous exchange (carbon-nitrogen balance method) by the procedures of indirect calorimetry. Changes of body weight were statistically not significant. At isocaloric supply of metabolizable energy with exactly the same foods in different meal frequencies no differences were found in the retention of carbon and energy. Urinary nitrogen excretion was slightly greater with a single daily meal, indicating influences on protein metabolism. The protein-derived energy was compensated by a decrease in the fat oxidation. The heat production calculated by indirect calorimetry was not significantly different with either meal frequency. Water, sodium and potassium balances were not different. The plasma concentrations of cholesterol and uric acid were not influenced by meal frequency, glucose and triglycerides showed typical behaviour depending on the time interval to the last meal. The results demonstrate that the meal frequency did not influence the energy balance.


5-Effects of meal frequency on body composition during weight control in boxers.

Iwao S, Mori K, Sato Y.

First Division of Health Promotion Science, Graduate School of Medicine, Nagoya University, Japan.

The effects of meal frequency on changes in body composition by food restriction were investigated. Twelve boxers were divided between a two meals day-1 group (the 2M group) and a six meals day-1 group (the 6M group). Both groups ingested 5.02 MJ (1200 kcal) day-1 for 2 weeks. Although there was no difference in change of body weight by food restriction between the two groups, the decrease in lean body mass (LBM) was significantly greater in the 2M group than in the 6M group. The decrease in urinary 3-methylhistidine/creatinine was significantly greater in the 6M group than in the 2M group. These results suggest that the lower frequency of meal intake leads to a greater myoprotein catabolism even if the same diet is consumed."

[tony touch]

first of all, i do not care for reviewing studies when it comes to bodybuilding nutrition. studies do jack **** for me. i know what works from making mistakes...making progress...hitting plateus and finding solutions. anybody can copy and paste but sharing your ACTUAL experiences with anything is far more productive.

the best gains of my life was when i was eating 10 small meals throughout the day and night. yes i was in a calorie surplus. 400-500 grams of protein a day

the best fat loss regimen ive ever experienced called for 8 meals a day..small meals..evenly spaced throughout the day and very high protein...if u want ill post the diet, frequency of meals, and supplement routine. 400 grams of protein a day

when i first went to college, i decided to eat 5 meals a day, mostly b\c i couldnt afford to eat any more and i wanted to lose some bodyfat. I was training my ass off, takin my supps, etc. well i lost weight but i looked soft. my metabolism had slowed up because it was used to having to deal with 8 small meals throughout the day instead of 5. i lost muscle mass...dont you hate when that happens?

[Shao-LiN]

yes there certainly is a need to bump it up to 8 meals a day and switch his macronutrient ratios around. 5 meals is not plenty. if you want to add a few protein shakes in the mix, thats cool but 5 meals will not cut it.

During a UD2, I only eat 4 meals a day. During a bulk or much saner cut, I generally get in 5-6...I don't see why 8 is required.

In any event, if it works for you, great...doesn't mean it works for everyone else.

[tony touch]

to each his own, i gave my opinion

[BCC]

I agree with Tony. Just my personal experience as well though. I made some of my greatest gains in a caloric surplus on 10 small meals per day. When I diet, I eat 7-8.

[restless]

I agree with Tony. Just my personal experience as well though. I made some of my greatest gains in a caloric surplus on 10 small meals per day. When I diet, I eat 7-8.


I don't question that you both did well. I'm just saying that 5 meals with the same exact calorie intake and macronutrient ratio would give the same results.

Controled studies will always mean more to me than anedoctal evidence, especially when people haven't even tried both sides.

[tony touch]

none of those studies were done on bodybuilders...unless i missed something. So those studies mean absolutely jack ****. A boxer's body is quite different from a bodybuilder

[smalls]

A boxer's body is quite different from a bodybuilder

How?

I also have made my best gains with 9 meals a day. But that is mostly because it was much easier to get in over 5000 cals that way. The only benefit in eating that many meals while dieting would be it's ability to satisfy hunger (with me personally). But as long as calories and macronutrients are the same then 8 meals carries no real benefit over 5. (IMO)

To state that studies carry no relevance whatsoever is a little close-minded. Again IMO.