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View Full Version : Protein + Calories = Faster/Better absorption?



JTyrell710
05-16-2004, 03:53 PM
Does eating protein with calories increase absorption rate?
does it increase absorption overall?

ryuage
05-16-2004, 04:26 PM
protein + calories ?? I think you mean carbs and the thing is carbs provide an insulin response which in turn transports nutrients.

JTyrell710
05-16-2004, 04:42 PM
uh no i meant calories, im not that dumb- i just had a friend tell me that calories and protein make it better for the protein
i understand its better to have the calories anyway..etc..
but also in this boat, having sugar wouldnt work because the insulin spike is done after the fastest acting protein *whey*..right?

ryuage
05-16-2004, 04:52 PM
ok if you meant calories im clueless because protein is/contain calories for every gram of protein it = 4 calories so have fun finding an answer to this one.

JTyrell710
05-16-2004, 05:12 PM
hahaha you're right, i realize- but I assume my friend was talking about an excess of calories..? Say 2-500 with protein?

ryuage
05-16-2004, 05:15 PM
so was it carbs after all

Jasonl
05-16-2004, 05:26 PM
You have to consume something to get calories, whether it be carbs, fat, protein, etc...

JTyrell710
05-16-2004, 05:57 PM
okay, regardless of whether its carbs or fats for the calories
would it help?

Shao-LiN
05-16-2004, 05:59 PM
Odd question because 1g protein = 4 calories. I'm going to assume you mean carbohydrates, cus that's the only way it would make sense to me. In any event, the point of consuming carbohydrates post-workout is to spike insulin. Insulin is what carries the nutrients you consume to the various cells of your body, be it muscle or fat. Post-workout is when your body is at its most anabolic, so spiking insulin to help transport the protein to your hungry muscle cells is the ideal situation.

JTyrell710
05-16-2004, 06:11 PM
but wouldnt the point b moot because the protein doesn't start acting until at least 45 minutes after, if it's whey?

ryuage
05-16-2004, 06:12 PM
:confused: im gonna leave this thread alone.. im confused

Shao-LiN
05-16-2004, 06:32 PM
but wouldnt the point b moot because the protein doesn't start acting until at least 45 minutes after, if it's whey?

Sooooo...since you believe the protein doesn't start "acting" (whatever that means) until 45 minutes later, we shouldn't spike insulin?

JTyrell710
05-16-2004, 06:38 PM
uh thats not a belief.. thats an apsorption rate..
whey is fastest
egg protein is slower
milk is slower
an food is slowest.
...

Jasonl
05-16-2004, 11:19 PM
:bang: This is making my head hurt. Ok, the ideal thing to do post-workout is to consume whey+dextrose/malto. The dex/malto will help replenish glycogen, aiding in muscle recovery, therfore, making the post-workout shake "better".

TheGimp
05-17-2004, 08:08 AM
but wouldnt the point b moot because the protein doesn't start acting until at least 45 minutes after, if it's whey?

That's why you should be having some whey pre-workout.

What do you think happens to the sugar? That is digested instantly while the whey takes 45 minutes?

Holto
05-17-2004, 12:38 PM
OK

if you have just a whey shake with no carbs or fat some of it will allways be converted to energy

if you take it with either fat OR carbs ie: extra cals

you are likely to spare some protein from being oxidized into energy

but really though if you diet is well structured this should not even be a question

you should be taking your total protein intake for the day and divide it among your meals

that way you allways take your protein with OTHER cals for energy

Shao-LiN
05-17-2004, 01:25 PM
Well, if you define "other" that way, sure. Be easier on the head to say carbs or fat.

Vido
05-17-2004, 02:17 PM
Ok, the ideal thing to do post-workout is to consume whey+dextrose/malto.

That's debateable.

JTyrell710
05-17-2004, 04:51 PM
That's why you should be having some whey pre-workout.

What do you think happens to the sugar? That is digested instantly while the whey takes 45 minutes?
yea pretty much

Saint Patrick
05-17-2004, 05:50 PM
:newbie:

JTyrell710
05-17-2004, 05:53 PM
:newbie:
subtle
lol

well then how long does sugar take to digest?? I thought like 5-10 minutes.

Jasonl
05-17-2004, 06:00 PM
That's debateable.
http://www.timinvermont.com/fitness/postwo.htm
http://www.johnberardi.com/articles/nutrition/importance.htm
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=46352

Vido
05-17-2004, 07:24 PM
First off, I will point out that the last link (the one to the WBB thread) doesn't say anything about the carbs you have post-workout having to be in liquid form...it just says eat carbs, which really isn't debateable at all.

The first link says that post-workout carbs should come in liquid form, but then suggests juice as an example. This ruins the credibility of the article right there.

As for Berardi, I didn't look at that article, but he's also the guy who suggests you consume 10000+ cals per day on a bulk...again, not overly credible.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but there are other options.

JTyrell710
05-17-2004, 07:26 PM
whats wrong with juice may I ask? Fructose?

Vido
05-17-2004, 07:28 PM
Yes, fructose replaces liver glycogen. You are trying to replace muscle glycogen after a workout.

Holto
05-17-2004, 08:05 PM
grape juice has no fructose just dex

I think half the places you read "juice" they really should specify grapejuice

and unsweetened grape juice at that

Vido: are you one of those ground oatmeal guys ?

that seems the other "most popular" choice

windwork
05-18-2004, 08:45 AM
grape juice has no fructose just dex

I think half the places you read "juice" they really should specify grapejuice

and unsweetened grape juice at that

Vido: are you one of those ground oatmeal guys ?

that seems the other "most popular" choice

so grape juice is a good idea to take after workout as a carb source with whey protein?

TheGimp
05-18-2004, 08:49 AM
Grapes contain fructose. What's so special about the juice?

windwork
05-18-2004, 09:09 AM
Grapes contain fructose. What's so special about the juice?

first post on this page says dex, no fructose in grapes

Vido
05-18-2004, 09:11 AM
Vido: are you one of those ground oatmeal guys ?

that seems the other "most popular" choice

I don't think it's necessary to ground it up, but sure I'm one of those "oatmeal guys".

TheGimp
05-18-2004, 09:18 AM
first post on this page says dex, no fructose in grapes

That's why I mentioned it. Grapes do contain fructose, at least the European varities do. As you can see other 50% of the sugar in them is fructose. Unfortunately the USDA (http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/search/) does not list the breakdown of sugars for American grapes (I'm guessing Concorde) but I am sceptical that they contain only dextrose.

Proximates
Water g 80.54 8 0.411
Energy kcal 69 0 0
Energy kj 288 0 0
Protein g 0.72 8 0.031
Total lipid (fat) g 0.16 8 0.03
Ash g 0.48 8 0.038
Carbohydrate, by difference g 18.10 0 0
Fiber, total dietary g 0.9 8 0.114
Sugars, total g 15.48 8 0.277
Sucrose g 0.15 8 0
Glucose (dextrose) g 7.20 8 0.096
Fructose g 8.13 8 0.218
Lactose g 0.00 8 0
Maltose g 0.00 8 0
Galactose g 0.00 8 0
Starch g 0.00 4 0
Minerals
Calcium, Ca mg 10 36 0.418
Iron, Fe mg 0.36 36 0.048
Magnesium, Mg mg 7 36 0.206
Phosphorus, P mg 20 34 0.987
Potassium, K mg 191 36 6.312
Sodium, Na mg 2 31 0.273
Zinc, Zn mg 0.07 36 0.01
Copper, Cu mg 0.127 36 0.016
Manganese, Mn mg 0.071 36 0.002
Selenium, Se mcg 0.1 4 0.01
Vitamins
Vitamin C, total ascorbic acid mg 10.8 6 0.858
Thiamin mg 0.069 8 0.002
Riboflavin mg 0.070 8 0.007
Niacin mg 0.188 8 0.016
Pantothenic acid mg 0.050 4 0.005
Vitamin B-6 mg 0.086 8 0.009
Folate, total mcg 2 4 0
Folic acid mcg 0 0 0
Folate, food mcg 2 4 0
Folate, DFE mcg_DFE 2 0 0
Vitamin B-12 mcg 0.00 0 0
Vitamin A, IU IU 66 0 0
Vitamin A, RAE mcg_RAE 3 0 0
Retinol mcg 0 0 0
Vitamin E (alpha-tocopherol) mg 0.19 5 0.014
Tocopherol, beta mg 0.00 5 0
Tocopherol, gamma mg 0.07 5 0.005
Tocopherol, delta mg 0.00 5 0
Vitamin K (phylloquinone) mcg 14.6 5 0.761
Lipids
Fatty acids, total saturated g 0.054 0 0
4:0 g 0.000 0 0
6:0 g 0.000 0 0
8:0 g 0.000 0 0
10:0 g 0.000 0 0
12:0 g 0.000 0 0
14:0 g 0.001 0 0
16:0 g 0.046 0 0
18:0 g 0.006 0 0
Fatty acids, total monounsaturated g 0.007 0 0
16:1 undifferentiated g 0.000 0 0
18:1 undifferentiated g 0.007 0 0
20:1 g 0.000 0 0
22:1 undifferentiated g 0.000 0 0
Fatty acids, total polyunsaturated g 0.048 0 0
18:2 undifferentiated g 0.037 0 0
18:3 undifferentiated g 0.011 0 0
18:4 g 0.000 0 0
20:4 undifferentiated g 0.000 0 0
20:5 n-3 g 0.000 0 0
22:5 n-3 g 0.000 0 0
22:6 n-3 g 0.000 0 0
Cholesterol mg 0 0 0
Phytosterols mg 4 0 0
Amino acids
Tryptophan g 0.011 0 0
Threonine g 0.022 0 0
Isoleucine g 0.011 0 0
Leucine g 0.022 0 0
Lysine g 0.027 0 0
Methionine g 0.009 0 0
Cystine g 0.010 0 0
Phenylalanine g 0.019 0 0
Tyrosine g 0.010 0 0
Valine g 0.022 0 0
Arginine g 0.130 0 0
Histidine g 0.022 0 0
Alanine g 0.022 0 0
Aspartic acid g 0.038 0 0
Glutamic acid g 0.081 0 0
Glycine g 0.016 0 0
Proline g 0.080 0 0
Serine g 0.022 0 0
Other
Alcohol, ethyl g 0.0 0 0
Caffeine mg 0 0 0
Theobromine mg 0 0 0
Carotene, beta mcg 39 2 0
Carotene, alpha mcg 1 1 0
Cryptoxanthin, beta mcg 0 0 0
Lycopene mcg 0 1 0
Lutein + zeaxanthin mcg 72 1 0

windwork
05-18-2004, 09:22 AM
:whip:
whipping the grape

Holto
05-18-2004, 12:16 PM
considering hepatic glycogen levels are one of the most critical factors required to be in an anabolic state

even if the concorde grapes (welch's) have SOME fructose that is a very good thing

TheGimp
05-18-2004, 01:31 PM
You're preaching to the choir as far as fructose consumption goes, I'm just pointing out that grapes do contain fructose, and it's not some, it's a lot. They do contain a good amount of dextrose for a fruit though, and I often have grapes for post workout nutrition when there are not better alternatives available.

Holto
05-18-2004, 03:07 PM
I'm just pointing out that grapes do contain fructose, and it's not some, it's a lot

the european type does anyway

either way it looks like there is likely some fructose in concorde's which I didn't know

TheGimp
05-19-2004, 02:32 AM
One thing I was curious about was whether welch's is pure grape juice or has added sugar - presumably dextrose?