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Alke
06-03-2004, 03:14 PM
I will be lifting westside in a month or two and wanted to let you guys go over the routine.

my westside routine (http://stu.aii.edu/~kpb361/westside.html)

my thus far revised westside routine (http://stu.aii.edu/~kpb361/westfront.html)



......did I miss anything?

Anthony
06-03-2004, 04:02 PM
Looks like the basics are there. Volume looks high on Tuesday, but if you can handle it, go for it. For your DE Squat work, I would personally keep it the same for the entire 9 weeks and use a parallel box. Be sure to hit your hamstrings hard. Don't be afraid to modify your routine if you notice an imbalance - train your weakness. Other than that, maybe allow for more time between ME sets. Good luck!

WillKuenzel
06-03-2004, 05:08 PM
I don't think you need that much lat assistance and if you are doing that much then you don't need the bicep assistance work.

I also think you need more hamstring work. If you compare your routine with this one (http://www.elitefts.com/documents/9week-training-program.htm), you see you are probably trying to do too much upper body work.

I'm also not so sure you should go above 60% for DE days. The recommended percentages are 50% for advanced lifters, 55% of intermediate and 60% for beginners. Somewhere in between there from week to week would be acceptable as you learn how the DE days are specifically supposed to be. Its weird trying to get speed out of it without sacrificing form and explosiveness.

It looks solid though and would work.

How would you be incorporating bands with the ME lifts? You can do that but normally they are used more often for DE days.

Alke
06-03-2004, 05:32 PM
For your DE Squat work, I would personally keep it the same for the entire 9 weeks and use a parallel box.

you think I should keep the box one level for the 9 weeks? I wasnt sure if switching up the box heights would be a good idea or not......


I don't think you need that much lat assistance and if you are doing that much then you don't need the bicep assistance work.
I wondered about that as well......specially after doing an arch on bench for first time, lats really took it hard. I will take lats work off on ME bench day.


I'm also not so sure you should go above 60% for DE days. The recommended percentages are 50% for advanced lifters, 55% of intermediate and 60% for beginners.

I like that idea.........lets go with 60, 50, 55, 50


How would you be incorporating bands with the ME lifts? You can do that but normally they are used more often for DE days.

I read in an article that one should use bands on DE days to maximize speed progression and to use bands on ME days to maximize strength progression, depending on what area you want to focus on.


this one
that was one of my references, you think I should add more hamstring work? I am only doing one exercise per week for arms right now and I am doing a'right by it, so maybe drop the arm work on fridays DE day and add hams there, as well as a hams exercise on moday ME squat day sound good?

WillKuenzel
06-03-2004, 05:43 PM
I agree with Anthony on keeping the box height the same. I'd set it just below parallel actually for the DE days. If you switch up at some point and move to box squats on ME days, I'd set those at parallel.

I'd intially leave the bands out for the first couple weeks. Then add them to your DE days and then to your ME days after that. I probably wouldn't use them on both ME and DE days. They can take their toll on the CNS, surprisingly enough.

In that link, you'll see they are doing both GHR's and reverse hypers on ME days and alternating doing either one on the DE days. That's 2 extra posterior chain exercises on the ME day and one on the DE day. Westside places a big big emphasis on hamstrings, glutes and lower back. I've even read that they've recommended doing GHR's everyday, to at least warm up with to help build general endurance and strength.

Alke
06-03-2004, 05:51 PM
yeah, thats the one thing I hate, no GHR's at my gym and that was a BIG thing in all the articles I read.


I probably wouldn't use them on both ME and DE days. They can take their toll on the CNS, surprisingly enough.

that was another thing I wanted to make sure I understood. one or the other, sounds good. I read the bands make one really sore, and wasnt sure if starting right out was a good idea, but might as well jump into the frying pan and find out what their like

question should I use bands throughout the 9 weeks? right now I am alternating between using them some weeks and NOT using them other weeks. Should I use bands on ME a few weeks, then use the bands DE a few weeks, then back to using them for ME?

bill
06-03-2004, 08:14 PM
Whats a GHR's? I have read some of westside, but still trying to understand and incorporate it. Thanks for any clarification.

KingJustin
06-03-2004, 08:22 PM
I could be wrong on some of this stuff but I think I've got a pretty good grasp on westside as it's what I use for my bench/"push" training and I've read most of the elitefts.com articles.

I would suggest starting out without the bands and then after 4 weeks switching to the bands (for the DE work). If you want to spend a couple weeks with the bands on the ME days that's fine but it's rare to do that.

DE bench days are supposed to stay the same throughout the 8 weeks. Meaning, if your DE bench on week 1 is 200 lbs then your DE bench for week 8 is 200 lbs.

Squats are usually a different story, though. I believe you start low on squats (around 50%) and work your way up to around 80%.

DK
06-03-2004, 08:55 PM
Looks like a pretty good routine. You've done your westside homework. :)

Here is a few things I noticed:

I know it says that begginers can use the same ME lift up to 3 weeks in a row, but I don't know why you would. There are so many ME lifts to use. I'd do the same lift twice maybe, but not three times straight. You could just try and find out if you are able to do it the same lift three weeks in a row. If you hit a PR each week, then your're good for three weeks of the same lift. If you fail on the third week you might want to just do the same ME lift for 2 straight weeks. I usually pick a new one each week.

Calf raises aren't all that important of an exercise to help your squat and dead. But they can really help stabilize you when you walk the bar out of the squat rack.

You've got some good lifts picked out as supplemental and accessory movements, but there are so many more to choose from. Instead of having to choose between 5 or so. You could choose from 20. Especially on the accessory stuff. It isn't that important to keep doing a certain lift for x number of weeks. Experiment and have fun.

On speed bench day I don't go by a certain percentage anymore. Sure it can help you find where you need to be, but after you've trained awhile you can go by "feel". If your moving slower drop down the weights and vice versa.

On DE Squat day. I like to follow this chart:

Box Squats: 8x2
(Straight weight)
Week 1: 45% for 8 sets of 2 reps with 60 second rest
Week 2: 50% for 8 sets of 2 reps with 60 second rest periods
Week 3: 55% for 8 sets of 2 reps with 60 second rest periods
(Green Bands)
Week 4: 47% for 8 sets of 2 reps with 60 second rest periods
Week 5: 49% for 8 sets of 2 reps with 60 second rest periods
Week 6: 51% for 8 sets of 2 reps with 60 second rest periods
(Heavy band Two Green Bands and a Purple Band)
Week 7-8: 20-30% for 5 sets of 2 reps

On Speed Bench days I like to go 2 weeks straight weight, and then 2 weeks bands. This will keep your body from adapting. Plus using bands all the time is killer.

Try and find your weaknesses and then use the lifts that will help you overcome them. I usually do some type of board press on ME bench day, and I do a lot of low box squatting on ME squat day. I have to deadlift or I will go crazy, so sometimes I will do deads as a second ME lift. Do you have a real reverse hyper, or are you doing them some other way? The real thing is great and is a lot different than any other method. I use bands on ME and DE days.

Really, if you like your routine there is nothing I would change. I just gave suggestions. There is definately nothing seriously wrong with it at all. If you have any questions, Ask away.

wibble
06-03-2004, 11:21 PM
Whats a GHR's? I have read some of westside, but still trying to understand and incorporate it. Thanks for any clarification.

Glute Ham Raises

Paul Stagg
06-04-2004, 07:47 AM
Looks decent - I woul dsimplify it a bit though - use the templates available.

If you are new to things, and pretty much train raw for now, I would do the DE squatting using a wave from 60-70% on a one inch below box. Week 1 60%, week 2 65%, week 3 68%, week 4 70%... something like that.

The DE benching I'd go with 60% for now, and reduce if your speed isn't there.

I don't think you can go wrong doing lots of lat work, but I would like to see more hamstring work.

Here is my basic template for comparison.

ME squat/dead
1) ME lift. 40%gms, 40% good mornings, 20% deads
2) Supplemental lower body (for now, this is leg press, because that's MY weakness), some sort of hamstring work
3) Accessory pull (shrug, high pull, clean, etc)
4) accessory lower body/low back (pull thru, hypers, etc)
5) accessory abs

ME Bench
1) ME lift
2) Supplemental - high volume triceps ext (for now, this is where I would throw in DB presses sometimes)
3) Supplemental - lats - Horizontal pulling (row)
4) accessory - shoulders
5) prehab - cuff work, bicep work

DE squat
1) Box squat (currently using bands cycle, 3 or 4 4 week waves.)
1a) Speed deads
2) Supplemental - Heavy hamstrings (if no deads)
3) Accessory - high pull (shrug, high pull, etc)
4) accessory - low back hams (pull thru, hypers)
5) accessory - abs

DE bench
1) Bench press (3 weeks straight weight at 60%, 3 weeks bands using 135)
2) Supplemental - Heavy triceps (glose grips, lockouts, JMs)
3) Supplemental - Lats (vertical pull - chins, pulldowns)
4) accessory - shoulders (usually rear delts)
5) prehab - cuff, biceps

Sets and reps vary. I add stuff in and take it out based onhow I feel that day, how things have been going over time, etc.

bill
06-04-2004, 10:38 AM
Thanks wibble

Alke
06-04-2004, 07:27 PM
wow, thanks guys.....I will definitely get more hams in here, and re-read through everything this weekend and update my routine.

good stuff, the fun begins in a month or two then :)


one last question
depending on how I feel the first two weeks I want to add some sled pulling somehwere, using cables attached to my ankles.

When would the best time be to do this using the schedule thus far?

Paul Stagg
06-07-2004, 06:55 AM
Go by how you feel.

Anthony
06-07-2004, 07:40 AM
Are you new to sled dragging? If so, I'd start with the rope around your waist and get used to it before doing the ankles.

ryuage
06-07-2004, 10:42 AM
damn pl routines look so damn complicated, I was looking into starting one myself but I guess I better get started on getting materials, boxes... etc =\

Alke
06-07-2004, 10:54 AM
paul cool, thanks

anthony thanks, thats probaly best. I will start out pulling by the waist first then move up to ankle pulling if I feel up to it.

ryuage hey man, not complicated if you read up on it. check out my links in my jounal, I posted where I got all my reading done on it there.

the bands and chains are extra, you dont need them....powerlifters were lifting like powerlifters before bands, the bands just maximize the routine.

squatting on boxes = you dont need boxes, just use a bench to sit on. I am going to use the areobic boxes in the cardio room to squat on myself as I am pretty tall and they allow me to go below parallel a bit.