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Y2A
06-05-2004, 03:47 PM
Does a diet based on bodytype make sense at all? By bodytype, I mean Endo, Ecto, Mesomorph. Just curious :thumbup:

Max-Mex
06-06-2004, 05:49 AM
I think it does, as far as calories counts go. I know I can't do a hardgainer diet cause I would just get fat. I really don't need that many extra calories to gain weight. Losing weight is a different story. I'm for the most part a Endpomoprh.

Vido
06-06-2004, 01:00 PM
Obviously bodytype should be taken into consideration when planning a diet. That's why those calorie formulas are junk.

Jasonl
06-06-2004, 01:50 PM
Obviously bodytype should be taken into consideration when planning a diet. That's why those calorie formulas are junk.
I think they provide a good "starting point" for most any kind of body type, it gives you an idea of where to start and adjust accordingly.

Y2A
06-06-2004, 01:56 PM
I think it does, as far as calories counts go. I know I can't do a hardgainer diet cause I would just get fat. I really don't need that many extra calories to gain weight. Losing weight is a different story. I'm for the most part a Endpomoprh.

Im teh natural fat boy too lol. :mad: I also mean the type of diet. For example, maybe an endo should go on a low-carb diet because carbs will make them store fat more easily. Hardgainers should take in lots of carbs so they can store proteins better. Something like that :confused:

Vido
06-06-2004, 02:02 PM
I think they provide a good "starting point" for most any kind of body type, it gives you an idea of where to start and adjust accordingly.

I disagree. I'll use the article Chris Mason keeps referring to on the At Large site. This article recommends 25 cals/lb bodyweight for bulking. Although I think this would be a good "starting point" for an ectomorph, and MAYBE a mesomorph, an endomorph would most likely turn into a ball of lard eating this much.

Vido
06-06-2004, 02:06 PM
Im teh natural fat boy too lol. :mad: I also mean the type of diet. For example, maybe an endo should go on a low-carb diet because carbs will make them store fat more easily. Hardgainers should take in lots of carbs so they can store proteins better. Something like that :confused:

I don't know if you're talking about cutting or bulking, but in either case I'd tend to agree that endos would probably do better on lower carbs. However, it's more a function of total caloric intake than anything else. All bodytypes need the same amount of protein and EFA's. Ectos and mesos need more total calories, so where will these come from? Carbs, of course. That's pretty simplified, but it makes sense to me.

Jasonl
06-06-2004, 03:33 PM
I disagree. I'll use the article Chris Mason keeps referring to on the At Large site. This article recommends 25 cals/lb bodyweight for bulking. Although I think this would be a good "starting point" for an ectomorph, and MAYBE a mesomorph, an endomorph would most likely turn into a ball of lard eating this much.
And this is why we check out weight weekly to see how much we're gaining/losing......

aka23
06-06-2004, 05:22 PM
Sheldon's somatotyping models (endomorph, ectomorph, and mesophorph) have been heavily criticized and discredited. These generalizations are largely based on appearance characteristics, which change over time with training and diet. I think it makes more sense to adjust diet with specific physical or biological characteristics, rather than umbrella generalizations.

For example one might vary diet according to things like body fat percentage, metabolism, insulin sensitivity, and thyroid function. Such characteristics might influence rate of weight gain/loss, how a person responds to specific macronutrients, and other dietary components. Note that these characteristics may change with training and weight gain/loss.


More information about somtatotyping theory is listed at http://www.longevitywatch.com/Somatotypes.htm . Using the definitions on this page, I have had the primary physical characteristics of an endomorph, ectomorph, and mesomorph at different periods in my life. My personalty has more closely resembled an ectomorph than the other somatotypes throughout my life.

Vido
06-06-2004, 06:15 PM
Albeit using somatotypes is still generalizing, it IS more specific than using the standard cutting/bulking formulas. At least somatotypes provide 3 classes, instead of just assuming everyone is identical.

Max-Mex
06-06-2004, 06:30 PM
Well, I am an endomorph for sure. Kills me when all these hardgainers complain about not gaining weight. Wish I could give them some of mine sometimes.

Vido
06-06-2004, 06:30 PM
Sheldon's somatotyping models (endomorph, ectomorph, and mesophorph) have been heavily criticized and discredited. These generalizations are largely based on appearance characteristics, which change over time with training and diet.

I think the somatotypes are better used to judge someone who is new to working out. If one is training and dieting correctly, said person should develop more mesomorphic appearance characteristics as time goes on. However, that does not mean he is now a true mesomorph.

Aka23 let's look at 2 examples, you and I. You look like the classic ectomorph to me...I'd have a hard time believing you were ever a chubby kid. (If you were, I apologize, and my example goes out the window.) I, on the other hand, am more of an endomorph. However, if you were to look at us both now, we would probably be classified as mesomorphs. BUT that does not mean we can eat like mesomorphs and maintain our current physiques. You, being an ectomorph, have to eat a lot of calories to maintain your weight (moreso than would a true mesomorph). I, being an endomorph, cannot eat as much as a mesomorph or I would begin to gain fat quite easily. Of course, muscle does a better job of burning calories than does fat. So, can I eat more now than I used to be able to? Yes. Can I eat as much as some of my "hardgainer" friends and not gain fat? No. Do you see where I'm coming from? Physical characteristics change over time; however, I believe somatotype is relatively stable.

Note: I'm only referring to the nutritional aspect of varying body types. Somatotypes also refer to personality characteristics, which may in fact change over time, as one gains/loses confidence.

JTyrell710
06-06-2004, 06:44 PM
that personality stuff is bs and only a product of society
people fill those roles because they are encouraged
hey ur fat why arent you jolly
hey ur strong why arent u bold and adventurous
hey ur skinny, why dont u crawl in a hole, paint some pictures and die like the frail little animal you are!

Vido
06-06-2004, 06:46 PM
that personality stuff is bs and only a product of society
people fill those roles because they are encouraged
hey ur fat why arent you jolly
hey ur strong why arent u bold and adventurous
hey ur skinny, why dont u crawl in a hole, paint some pictures and die like the frail little animal you are!

I'm wondering what relevance this has in relation to the thread. You sound like you're just pissed off and venting.

aka23
06-06-2004, 07:16 PM
You look like the classic ectomorph to me...I'd have a hard time believing you were ever a chubby kid. (If you were, I apologize, and my example goes out the window.)

There were several points in my childhood in which I was clearly overweight and had a "pot belly". These points were usually closely correlated with eating a poor diet. During most of my childhood, I looked average. I was definitely not skinny and did not resemble an ectomorph. I only had a low body fat and had to consume a large number of calories to maintain my weight, after I started working out. After about a year of working out, I probably looked more like an ectomorph than the other somatotypes. After a couple years of training, I probably looked more like a mesomorph than the other somatotypes.



You, being an ectomorph, have to eat a lot of calories to maintain your weight (moreso than would a true mesomorph). I, being an endomorph, cannot eat as much as a mesomorph or I would begin to gain fat quite easily. Of course, muscle does a better job of burning calories than does fat.

I believe that my high calorie intake is related to my high activity level and my large amount of LBM. I do cardio for a median length of 1 hour, 5-6 days per week. Calorie calculators on the web and on machines estimate that I may burn well over 1000 calories in some of these sessions. I also do weight training 5-6 days per week . Calorie calculators on the web estimate that these session burn ~400 calories during the activity. The weight sessions would also result in calories being burned after the activity through increased metabolism + repair. I believe that if I stopped training, then my ectomorphic characteristics would disappear.

I agree that some people's weights are resistant to change beyond a certain range, while others can gain weight easily. Some think the extra calories are used in "futile cycles" that waste energy via dietary thermogenesis. In overfeeding experiments, there have been drastic variations among different persons. For example, In the Sims overeating studies, prisoners with average weights tried to gain 20-25% of their bodyweight by eating as much as they could for 6 months. Sims found the amount of calories eaten was relatively independent from the weight gained. Some were resistant to gaining weight and needed to eat 10,000 calories per day to maintain the weight. Over the 6 month experiment, some gained ~12lb by eating 3000-5000 calories per day above their maintenance level at the start of the experiment. Others gained more weight with a small fraction of this total. These persons whose weight is resistant to change tend to be lean, often resembling "ectomorphs", for obvious reasons. Other persons who gain weight easily and become lean through diet and/or training may also resemble “ectomorphs”.

lex
06-07-2004, 07:09 AM
heh i didnt even know about these things..after reading the article i am clearly an ectomorph..what does this mean?! haha useful info cool

Jasonl
06-07-2004, 07:49 AM
heh i didnt even know about these things..after reading the article i am clearly an ectomorph..what does this mean?! haha useful info cool
It means you are a so-called "hard gainer", but it also means you'll have a hard time getting fat, which is a good thing!!