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lex
06-07-2004, 08:48 AM
when is too much protein? i weigh 148 and i eat about 210 grams of protein per day..

geoffgarcia
06-07-2004, 08:58 AM
if you were eating 400+ I'd say your on the border of eating to much.
Granted it depends on if your in a bulk or a cut...

furious
06-07-2004, 01:19 PM
there is no such thing as too much

TheGimp
06-07-2004, 02:13 PM
There's always a thing as too much. If too much water can kill you, too much protein can too.

Vido
06-07-2004, 05:20 PM
I'm not really sure where the line should be drawn, but at 210g you have nothing to worry about.

ace dogg
06-07-2004, 05:33 PM
Protein is good. Eat as much as your goals/macro ratio's require. There is no set limit.

latinomasfino
06-12-2004, 09:53 AM
yes protein is very good but its all about calories if ur goal is cuttin..also while cuttin in order to retain ur strength it is important to maintain and increase your protein intake so your gym time will not be hindered

pruneman
06-12-2004, 12:12 PM
How much of the other macronutrients are you taking in?

waynis
06-15-2004, 05:25 PM
there is no such thing as too much

wrong... too much of anything is bad. left over protein that is not put to use will just turn to fat. also excess protien can be bad on your liver and kidneys due to excreting nitrogen.

average human should get 15-20% of their diet from protein. most studies have shown the average person gets well enough protein to control tissue breakdown. but for a athlete or bodybuilder u can up it to 30% u gotta see what works with yah.

for a athlete a accurate amount would be 0.8 grams per lb of body weight. if u go over once in awhile it wont hurt u but over time if u do it all the time it will. you should be closer to your body wieght. your body wont process all that protein , its too much and no need for it. wont help u out any more, like i said about how ther could be negative effects at too high amounts.

Scott S
06-15-2004, 06:57 PM
also excess protien can be bad on your liver and kidneys due to excreting nitrogen.

If there was a single study in history to back that up, I'd agree with you.

waynis
06-15-2004, 07:06 PM
If there was a single study in history to back that up, I'd agree with you.

its what the american heart assiciation has backed up and also the american diabetes association. i dont know of any study specifilly. i would have to look. i got this info specifically from the basic nutrition and diet therepy book from sue rodewell williams. I've also been taught this in school. I dont see anyone disagreeing with it either.

Augury
06-15-2004, 08:25 PM
I havent seen any studys that specifically "prove" that overconsuming protein causes liver and kidney problems. however it is accepted that eating a huge ammount of protein puts a "load" upon the liver that it normally does not have to bear. Any organ that is under undue load will be compromised at performing its normal activities whilst it tries to deal with the abnormal load.

Whilst there dosnt seem to be a study saying this is going to casue any damage - it seems silly to load your liver up (and tax it with the burden of converting the excess to bodyfat) with an expensive food macro it already has more than enough of. If you feel eating 4x your bodyweight in protein is helping you grow then you should carry on. Its been shown over and over again however that 0.8-1.5g per lb is all you need. The rest is converted to fat or glucose (which if not used is converted to fat).

Augs

pruneman
06-15-2004, 09:27 PM
I was reading some of the articles aka posted in another thread. Seems that testosterone levels decrease on proportionately high protein diets. I don't see any need to go over 1g/lb of body weight under most circumstances.

Scott S
06-15-2004, 09:38 PM
Sure, I agree that 4xBW protein intakes are silly, but the medical establishment continues to "back up" a lot of suppositions that don't necessarily hold under intense scrutiny...

Dietary cholesterol? "A killer!"

Any kind of fat? "Bad!"

Secondhand smoke kills 50,000 people a year? "Sounds right!"

Squats? "Bad for the knees!"

You get the idea. :rolleyes:

Augury
06-15-2004, 09:55 PM
yup. I get the idea. However the medical establishment is charged with a difficult job. It has to try to make useful and helpful "soundbytes" for fat, lazy, and generally medically uneducated people to try and give them rules of thumb to live by. Its better to say "fats are generally bad" than "eat only from mono unsaturated sources but 20% of your fat intake can come from satturated sources but try to avoid transfatty acids" becasue people will have switched off at the 4th word and are already chewing on a burger.

i freely admit medical science backtracks and even pretends it didnt say things it did...but it has a tough time simplyfying complex chemical reactions into helpful advice. Every single cell in your body contains and needs cholestorol...but if you say that to the general public you would be crucified. We need some...but not too much.

You get the idea lol :)
Augs

Scott S
06-18-2004, 06:21 PM
Good points. It's just irritating to hear things dumbed down all the time when you're capable of thinking at a higher level.

waynis
06-18-2004, 06:32 PM
i freely admit medical science backtracks and even pretends it didnt say things it did...but it has a tough time simplyfying complex chemical reactions into helpful advice. Every single cell in your body contains and needs cholestorol...but if you say that to the general public you would be crucified. We need some...but not too much.


Augs

like eggs. eat the yolk! it makes it a complete source of protein. but dont go eating a ton of em.. haha moderation

alcatraz
06-20-2004, 12:31 AM
water man water. The most serious concern with high protein intake is dehydration, because it takes a lot of water to metabolize protein. This can be avoided by drinking at least a gallon of water a day.

Reinier
06-20-2004, 01:51 AM
Nice conclusion, people are too stupid to be told the truth.

Anyway I agree high protein is not really bad for your kidneys and liver, the real reason many elite lifters die from kidney and liver disease is that they pop 100 dBols every day.

TiGeR AK
06-20-2004, 02:10 AM
blah.. i still think u don't need that much protein.

but it's always better to be safe than sorry.

pruneman
06-20-2004, 10:19 AM
High amounts of dietary protein in relation to carbohydrates can significantly lower testosterone levels.

http://www.wsu.edu/~strength/testcort.htm

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/incledon/diet-01.htm

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/incledon/diet02.htm

jimlynch11
06-20-2004, 11:27 AM
High amounts of dietary protein in relation to carbohydrates can significantly lower testosterone levels.

http://www.wsu.edu/~strength/testcort.htm

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/incledon/diet-01.htm

http://www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/incledon/diet02.htm

Some of the ideas presented in these articles are a complete 180 from what alot of people around here describe as methods to maximise test and muscle growth. (high unsaturated fat intake, high protein intake, etc). I'd be interested to hear input from some of the board experts (GeoffGarcia, Augury, etc.) and their opinions on this. The third article suggests a diet breakdown of 55% carbs, 30% fat, and only 15% protein to maximize free test in the body. Any thoughts?

TheGimp
06-20-2004, 11:46 AM
I find myself (do I count as a board expert? :p) frequently informing people that fat is not the enemy and that at least 20% of calories should come from fat to maintain healthy hormone production, with this coming from healthy unsaturated sources.

pruneman
06-20-2004, 12:32 PM
I think that the articles bring up some very good points. I don't think I agree that protein should only be 15% of your diet unless you have extremely high caloric needs. The point I was trying to make by posting those links is that consumption of more than 1g per lb of bodyweight of protein is unnecessary to maximize gains and actually may reduce gains because of the effect it has on test production.
Also, although a diet higher in sat fat than polyunsaturated fat may increase test levels, I would not advocate eating a lot of sat fat. This issue could possibly be overcome by reducing the amount of polyunsaturated fat in the diet. I am not sure, but I believe I have read that higher levels of monounsaturated fat also show positive correlation with higher test levels.
I know that those articles seem to contradict some of the foundations of what is considered a healthy diet. I am interested to hear other people's views on this.

Maxgain
06-20-2004, 03:10 PM
Saturated fat positively correlates to test levels while polyunsaturated fats have a negative effect

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11525593&dopt=Abstract
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=6538617&dopt=Abstract

Maxgain
06-20-2004, 03:25 PM
Dietary lipids: an additional regulator of plasma levels of sex hormone binding globulin.

Reed MJ, Cheng RW, Simmonds M, Richmond W, James VH.

The effect of dietary lipid consumption on plasma levels of sex-hormone binding globulin (SHBG), free testosterone and cholesterol was studied in 6 normal men. After consuming a diet with a high fat content (greater than 100 g fat/day) for two weeks, the mean plasma cholesterol level increased (p less than 0.02) while the mean SHBG level decreased (p less than 0.02). Changing the diet from one with a high fat to low fat content (less than 20 g fat/day) for a further two week period resulted in a significant reduction in mean plasma cholesterol level (p less than 0.001) while the mean SHBG level increased (p less than 0.01). The increase in plasma SHBG was associated with a significant decrease in the free testosterone fraction and free testosterone concentration. No significant changes were detected in plasma samples obtained from the same men during a control period. The results from this study demonstrate that dietary lipid intake is an additional factor involved in the regulation of plasma levels of SHGB.

Its all about getting a balance getting sufficient EFAs in without believing more is better while controlling saturated fat intake. The rest of the fat intake can be made up with the "neutral" monunsaturated such as olive oil