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View Full Version : Skinny and short guys, Unite!



Spartan936
06-07-2004, 05:12 PM
I'm 5'5 120lbs. 4000 healthy calories a day, plenty of protein, carbs, good fats, I concentrate on heavy compound movements most days of the week. I'm doing pretty good, I've gained 8 lbs in two weeks. I'm wondering what you skinny and short guys are doing to bulk up and how its going for you. We could help each other out.

jazer80
06-07-2004, 05:25 PM
haha i hear ya i'm 5'6'' 156 lbs. , skinny as hell (see my journal). if you gained 8 lbs in two weeks, 1) you're doing something right, 2) you're definitely putting on fat weight - you should not be gaining 8lbs in 2 weeks w/ just eating weights (actually maybe if it's your first 2 weeks of lifting?). 4000 calories is probably too much, which i'd assume is why you got 8 pounds. BUT, you know what to do. eat a ton, make sure you're getting adequate protein, rest properly between workouts/get good sleep, and compound movements. good job

Spartan936
06-07-2004, 05:28 PM
To be fair, these are my first two weeks of serious lifting and eating; and some of the weight probably is fat. My calorie intake changes, I need to moniter it more. What does your program look like Jazer? what kind of gains have you had?

jazer80
06-07-2004, 05:52 PM
check my journal, there's pretty much everything in there, pics and breakdowns of every workout. basically heavy ass lifting, pushing intensity as hard as possible, and eating. i've put on around 10 pounds i think in the past few months, all because of what i've learned around here, i never fully understood the importance of diet, and always overrated supplements. it's cool how much stuff you can learn in forums that have experienced people.

Budiak
06-08-2004, 02:28 PM
Wow.

I'm 5'4" and 3 years ago I was 135lbs at 16%bf, , now I'm 205 at a bit higher bf%.

I hope you can tell which is which.

Keep training and eat like a feedlot heifer. It took me a long time to figure out the eccentricities of my own metabolism and musculature.

I don't know what else to say. Eat...a lot. Everything. Train until women refuse to walk past you in the gym.

Podium Kreatin
06-08-2004, 03:20 PM
Wow.

I'm 5'4" and 3 years ago I was 135lbs at 16%bf, , now I'm 205 at a bit higher bf%.

wtf, i know u for a long time, but i never knew u were teh same height as me (that'd better not be a typo)! i'm 5'4 160lbs at 12%, i can only wish i can go above 180! well, thanks for the motivation, knowing that my limit could be farther than i thought it was (i've lifted for almost 4 years, from 120 to 160)

jazer80
06-08-2004, 03:21 PM
holy **** budiak!! nice f'in gains man! did you take cycles during those 3 years?

Augury
06-08-2004, 08:30 PM
Budiak....my god. That is so utterly encouraging.

Im 5'7 and 140lb right now. Just starting a bulk that should increase LBM whilst keeping bf% where it is or lowering it just a tad.

Whats amazing is that you are 205. I mean....im blown away. seriously. If i could ever get to that stage I would be happy as a happy thing thats just found a big tub of happy to play in and was already in an extraspecially happy mood when it got out of bed anyhow.

So what are your secrets apart from eating a lot? At a guess from 5'4 and 130lbs your maintenance was about 1900? 2000?. So how much more than maintenance have you been eating to add this LBM?

what kinds of workouts have you done and tried?

Augs

Spartan936
06-08-2004, 11:03 PM
Budiak!!!!!!!! :eek:
We are not worthy!:bow::bow::bow:We are not worthy!:bow::bow::bow:
No really man. You're my new idol. Do you have a journal?

Spartan936
06-08-2004, 11:17 PM
Budiak....my god. That is so utterly encouraging.

Im 5'7 and 140lb right now. Just starting a bulk that should increase LBM whilst keeping bf% where it is or lowering it just a tad.

Whats amazing is that you are 205. I mean....im blown away. seriously. If i could ever get to that stage I would be happy as a happy thing thats just found a big tub of happy to play in and was already in an extraspecially happy mood when it got out of bed anyhow.

So what are your secrets apart from eating a lot? At a guess from 5'4 and 130lbs your maintenance was about 1900? 2000?. So how much more than maintenance have you been eating to add this LBM?

what kinds of workouts have you done and tried?

Augs

Hey Augs. You shouldn't worry about fat now. If you want to gain the most amount of muscle, eat more calories. The fat can be lost later. I'm only 120 lbs and I'm eating 3500! Though I have a super-metabolism. Good mass comes from heavy compound movements. Just my 2 cents. Lets see what the Almighty Budiak has to say...

TheGimp
06-09-2004, 05:36 AM
Holy crap two people shorter than me!

5'5 147 lbs here. Just recently finished a bulk from 139 - 149 lbs and now I'm in the middle of using UD2.0 to cut for 6 weeks. Then I plan to pack on the pounds. Full details in my journal.

Truly awesome transformation Budiak! What are your current goals?

Minotaur
06-09-2004, 07:32 AM
Wow.

I'm 5'4" and 3 years ago I was 135lbs at 16%bf, , now I'm 205 at a bit higher bf%.

I hope you can tell which is which.

Keep training and eat like a feedlot heifer. It took me a long time to figure out the eccentricities of my own metabolism and musculature.

I don't know what else to say. Eat...a lot. Everything. Train until women refuse to walk past you in the gym.

Hey Budiak, excellent job, man... and we're not too unlike. I'm 5'5" and 215, ~18% bf. Goal is ~12% and ~200lbs. I guess I'll still be 5'5" :p

Ten years ago I was ~137lbs and ~15% bf, but I really packed it on in the past four years or so, going from about 185 to 220+.

The first pic is about 7 or 8 years ago, the second is a few months ago. Fortunately I've lost some fat since then.

Spartan936
06-09-2004, 09:07 AM
Awesome, Gimp and Minotaur :D
I thought I was the only one! *tears of joy*
As the bible says: "The short shall inherit the Earth!!!" Er...umm... something along those lines. I'd like to see what some of you big guys are lifting. I'll check the journals too.

TOBART
06-09-2004, 10:30 AM
December 2003 5' 7" 120lbs
June 2004 5' 7" 136lbs

Attempting to hit 150 by the end of the year then I'll likely cut for a while. My secret, 2 huge protien drinks a day, non stop eating and lifting angry.

Budiak
06-09-2004, 03:52 PM
The problem is that I was an extremely fat child, I mean orca fat. I went to SeaWorld once and people were throwing frozen squid at me.

I got into a stage where I was absolutely obsessed with losing weight to the point of sickness. At my lightest I believe I was 135 or so and I still had no abs, no arm definition, nothing. I lost all the weight but I lost it for nothing because I looked like ****. Oh God, if I could just have a tally of how much money I spent on idiotic fat burners and magic pills and chromium and useless weightloss plans, oral 'fat inferno' sprays and 'I tried everything, but this worked!' products. Its got to be in the high hundreds if not low thousands of dollars of hard-earned money. My maintenance was in the hundreds of calories. At one point I was eating between 450 and 1200 calories a day consistently and seeing absolutely no change in my physique.

I slowly started eating more and more, but I was still highly inhibited by my fear of getting fat. I was weak as hell but I worked out like a beast but saw no progress because I simply wasn't eating enough.

I believe somebody dug up an old thread of mine a while ago where my max bench was 115x4 or something like that.

I moved from San Francisco to Sacramento in early 2002 and started bulking up. I gained some good weight and went from 150 to 165 but I felt fat, even though I had gained a lot of good mass, the added mass made me feel fat. I was so afraid of being fat and bulky that I couldn't tell the difference.

By this time I'd been working out regularly for 8 years. At the age of 20, I'd been a member of a gym for 9 years already, but I was a sack of **** because I refused to throw caution to the wind and just build.

I decided to throw caution to the wind and bulk up, to use my metabolism to my advantage. In the fall of 2002 I bulked up for 12 weeks and gained 45lbs, though I'm willing to say that a good half of it was fat, I was 207lbs at the end of it. 207 fat ****in' pounds. I felt huge though. None of my pants fit. I went from a 32 waist to a 38.

Now get this straight, I'm not a hardgainer. You could say that I was a hardgainer because I refused to gain, which is an interesting situation to say the least. It took years for me to accept that if I were going to get big, I'd have to gain fat, too.

I still don't think I'm very big. I'm right now 204lbs at...some bodyfat%. Under 20 I think, but I'm not sure. People around me tell me I'm a beast or I'm huge or I look like a bear when I eat but I'm so ****ed up in the head that there is no way I can believe them.


I don't know if I have any current goals. I am currently bulking up, I've been bulking for 13 weeks and gained 13 net pounds. I gained 10 pounds, had a nervous breakdown and lost all of it, then I've been working my way back up. Technically I've gained 23 pounds so far but...yeah. **** happens.
After the bulk I'm going to enlist a pre-contest professional to help me lean out and get as ripped as possible in sixteen weeks as part of an art project I'm doing about obsession and dysmorphia and self hatred and journalkeeping and social commentary and recreational bodybuilding and plain ol' tom foolery.

I'm only 22 right now (going on 23 in August), so I've got plenty of time to lift. After I complete this project I'm going to take it easy for a good long time (two weeks). I'd like to be 235 at under 10% by the time I'm thirty. I hope I don't die by then. Which leads to my next topic.

As a warning, though. I'd like you all to know that 200+lbs on a 5'4" frame is a LOT of weight and it plays hell on your health. I have problems breathing at times because of the weight that is on my frame, especially when I lie down. Standing up for long periods of time gets tough. When I sleep, I can only sleep flat on my stomach or flat on my back lest my extremeties go totally numb with a quickness. My blood pressure is through the roof, my cholesterol is high, and my liver is messed up as well, and I rarely drink. I'm currently taking some steps to clean myself up inside but as advice to someone who wants to be a 200lb fireplug; stay healthy. Eat your fish and stay away from pop-tarts and fried food. Find a balance. You might have to supplement your diet with horrible food. I also encourage you to stay away from steroids until you get to the point where there's no way you can gain more without them. I will admit here that I ****ed around with fina late last/early this year and God damn, that **** is amazing. I kind of wish I hadn't done it though. I gained 20lbs in 8 weeks on it, about 85% lean gains. Kept all of them. I went from about 180 to 200. I have no doubt that part of my health problems are drug related. I didn't get any noticeable sides though. It was cheap. It worked. Meh. I won't judge any of you either way and I hope you show me the same respect. I'm sure I'll do it again.

Maki Riddington
06-09-2004, 04:03 PM
Nice post Bud.:)

Budiak
06-09-2004, 04:15 PM
Also, the thing about me is that I really don't look as big as I should at this weight. I've got a very thick waist, broad shoulders and big legs, so people see me and they just look at my upper body and don't believe that I weigh 205 or whatever. Its **** you have to deal with as a shrimp, I guess. I have terrible arm genetics and awesome chest/delt/back genetics, so it leads to some strange visuals. I have good leg genetics but I sprained my ankle a while ago which left me without a good leg workout for the entire length of my medically assisted bulk, so I'm STILL working on catching them up. My legs are almost proportional to my musculature but they have a bit to go. I'll have to see myself at 4% bodyfat to tell.

Right now I'm eating 3500-5500 calories a day of filthy calories and gaining 1-2lbs a week. Remember that I have a remarkably slow metabolism. I've got mad muscle mass though, which I think helps keep fat down since I'm so active. Its been very hard to gain weight recently which has been a bit of a shock because it piled on so quickly in the past. I guess I'm reaching my threshold.

I was a late bloomer, I don't think I felt the true effects of puberty until I was about 19. I started losing weight the year after sophomore year in high school but I never felt truly verile until my ultimate teen year.

My lifts right now are surprisingly unimpressive.
Squat: 325x8
Bench:245x10
BB Row: 265x5
OH Press: 175x8
Skullcrusher: 130x12
Dead: Untested. No longer included in my regimen. Late 2003, 425x1.
JM Press: 205x8

The first bulk when I moved back to Sacramento (150-165) was WBB1, which worked very well. I then started doing pretty much my own thing, a modified WBB1/2 plan. Early 2003 I tried a 1 month Westside powerlifting cycle and I learned a LOT about form and strength just from a month. I suggest everybody try Westside or another form of powerlifting for 1-2 months because you will find out how much you don't know about stability, form, and your own musculature. I didn't get that much stronger but I'm extremely happy I did it. Right now I do a fairly instinctual program. I do one bodypart a day with a six day split. I have a minimum set count for the target bodypart and then I do any catch-up work after that. Chest day I'll go in and usually start with 4 sets of bench, then I'll do 4 supersets of high/low cables, and perhaps a dumbell movement or dips, depending on whether or not I feel like it. So far its been working. The main concern is intensity of the individual reps. My sets run the gambit from 4 reps to 20, depending on how I feel.

I tried HST-type volume programs and I absolutely hate them. Progress? Sure...but I absolutely hate the workouts and I'm more concerned with the pleasure of lifting and meeting my goals on my terms than getting results as fast as possible regardless of how I feel about it.

I'm no hero. I'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut.

Spartan936
06-09-2004, 08:02 PM
It takes balls to tell the truth like that Budiak. Thanks for the great advice! I think that your lifts are very impressive; holy crap, I don't personnally know anyone who could ever bench over 180, and I can only deadlift 180! Have you considered cleaning up your diet and doing some cardio to improve your overall health? Do that, and you're set. :D

Augury
06-09-2004, 08:46 PM
Very interesting and candid post Budiak. It was enthralling reading. From the hints you made regarding general self loathing, all the issued regarding putting on fat etc...do you think now that you are not in a very enviable position to lose BF? I know you said you were going to enlist a pre-contest trainer etc....but with the muscle mass you have I think the BF would literally fall off you if you went on even a fairly unfocused cutting routine, let alone a focued one like CKD, TKD, or UD2. Anyhow...thanks for the post and you remain an inspiration regarding simply "getting on with it and growing". Cheers.

Augs

Budiak
06-09-2004, 11:22 PM
My main problem with losing fat is motivation and really the will to work for it. I got big because it was actually fairly easy once I decided to take the gloves off, but I've never been below 12% bodyfat and when I was (just before I left SF I was about 150, 12%) I had to be on the ball every second of every day and it was so much work just to maintain 12% but at the time I was actively trying to cut to below 10% but was getting nowhere.

Now I'm somewhat convinced that with my muscle mass it may be easier to lose the fat but there is a huge chasm between my desire to work for it and my will to work for it. Motivation is my #1 problem. I'll get three weeks into a cut and be making good progress and just...give up. I guess its mental. I was so small and weak for so long I guess that subconsciously I don't want to get small again, I want to stay big. I'm hardly in the mood to discuss how much I hate myself right now.

Ta!

Minotaur
06-10-2004, 08:07 AM
The problem is that I was an extremely fat child, I mean orca fat. I went to SeaWorld once and people were throwing frozen squid at me.

I got into a stage where I was absolutely obsessed with losing weight to the point of sickness. At my lightest I believe I was 135 or so and I still had no abs, no arm definition, nothing. I lost all the weight but I lost it for nothing because I looked like ****.

...

I still don't think I'm very big. I'm right now 204lbs at...some bodyfat%. Under 20 I think, but I'm not sure. People around me tell me I'm a beast or I'm huge or I look like a bear when I eat but I'm so ****ed up in the head that there is no way I can believe them.

...

As a warning, though. I'd like you all to know that 200+lbs on a 5'4" frame is a LOT of weight and it plays hell on your health. I have problems breathing at times because of the weight that is on my frame, especially when I lie down. Standing up for long periods of time gets tough. When I sleep, I can only sleep flat on my stomach or flat on my back lest my extremeties go totally numb with a quickness. My blood pressure is through the roof, my cholesterol is high, and my liver is messed up as well, and I rarely drink. I'm currently taking some steps to clean myself up inside but as advice to someone who wants to be a 200lb fireplug; stay healthy. Eat your fish and stay away from pop-tarts and fried food. Find a balance.

...

Also, the thing about me is that I really don't look as big as I should at this weight. I've got a very thick waist, broad shoulders and big legs, so people see me and they just look at my upper body and don't believe that I weigh 205 or whatever. Its **** you have to deal with as a shrimp, I guess.

...




I selected parts of your posts because I cannot believe how similar we are, though over 20 years age difference (I'll be 47 next month). Those passages from your posts could describe me exactly. Not to take away from your story or steal your thunder, but I can certainly relate. And I'm sure there are a lot of other guys out there like us.

When I was about 36-37 years old, I lost a lot of weight, from about 165 down to 137. Before that I had only brief flirtations with exercise. I lost the 30lbs through dieting and aerobic exercise. Only later did I add weights. But even at 137 (and a 31-32" waist) I was still 'fat' and flabby. People told me I lost too much weight and was too skinny, but I thought I looked all that. :rolleyes:

Then I joined a health club and started lifting weights. I got some muscle. After a few years I joined the Y, learned to deadlift and squat, and bench (at my first gym my best bench was 95 lbs and I pinned myself... twice :rolleyes: ). At the Y I got more muscle. Two years ago I joined another gym (more equipment, more serious weightlifters and bodybuilders) and am getting more muscle. :) Though my bench still sucks @ 185. My goal is just 225. Anything after that is gravy. My best deads and squats are 315 for a few reps. But at 47, it takes me a little longer to recover than you young studs, and a few more joints snap, crackle and pop, so I don't push for any records. Still, better than most 47 year olds, no!?

My arms fall asleep in bed, too. I can't get comfortable and am always bouncing around. I'm also fighting to get my blood test numbers into shape. My fasting glucose is 5 points over the scale, I may be insulin resistant and prediabetic (my father was Type II), my triglycerides are through the roof, my LDL is high and my HDL is low, but my total cholesterol is tolerable, my liver test comes out a little funky.

Like you, I am short and broad. Even if I get back down to a 36 waist (I'll never see 32-34" and still keep the muscle mass), I will always look 'fat', unless I wear a wet T shirt and a jockstrap. I'll probably still need to wear size 38 or 40 pants for the legs and butt, but have the waist taken in. I wear XL shirts (shoulders are 52", chest is 46-47"), so of course the body is wide and makes me look wide. My hips and butt and legs have grown from squatting and dl'ing. My chiropractors and MDs even said I have short thick bones and short thick muscles. People don't understand that short and thick does not = fat! But you know what? I LIKE myself being a short thick musclebear. :)

I'm currently doing a ckd to get the fat down (currently 18-19%); people have said it's scary watching me eat. Ever watch Star Trek TNG and watch the Klingons eat? :eek:

Stay big and strong, and know that there's others like us out there. ;)

Spartan936
06-10-2004, 09:34 AM
But at 47, it takes me a little longer to recover than you young studs, and a few more joints snap, crackle and pop, so I don't push for any records. Still, better than most 47 year olds, no!?

Wow Minotaur, Thats dedication. And Budiak, we're behind you all the way. I have a hard time staying disciplined when my alarm clock goes off, getting up and lifting does'nt sound fun at 6 am. And I'm only 17! I'm not built thick like you guys, I have a light bone structure. Right now I weight 120, my long term goal is around 160-170. :thumbup:

Budiak
06-10-2004, 11:49 AM
Minotaur, I've been watching a lot of Deep Space Nine and those Klingons got nothin' on us.

Minotaur
06-10-2004, 02:34 PM
I think you're right, my friend, I think you're right. ;)

jazer80
06-10-2004, 06:50 PM
budiak that was a great post man. i wish you well with the cutting and your project. i'm sure that just those before / after pics helped a lot of people on this board. congratulations on your accomplishments

jazer80
06-10-2004, 06:52 PM
i'm sure you know this, but the amount of people who were in your shoes/mindset who could actually do what you've done with yourself are pretty f'in slim. you should really be proud

Augury
06-10-2004, 08:45 PM
Budiak? Minotour? have either of you heard or read about the UD2 fatloss diet? Its well worth reading. Its motivational just to read let alone do. It allows loss of bodyfat (at or faster than 1/lb per week) whilst maintaining (if not sneaking on a little ) muslce mass. Ive seen people have really fantastic results with it and journals to back it all up.

Augs

Minotaur
06-11-2004, 08:06 AM
Budiak? Minotour? have either of you heard or read about the UD2 fatloss diet? Its well worth reading. Its motivational just to read let alone do. It allows loss of bodyfat (at or faster than 1/lb per week) whilst maintaining (if not sneaking on a little ) muslce mass. Ive seen people have really fantastic results with it and journals to back it all up.

Augs

I've briefly read about it. I think it's a keto diet? I'm ketoing now. I did a ckd last year from March to June and had good results. I just got bored with the food. I can't let that happen now; I need 3 months to see what happens to my blood sugar and triglycerides levels being off carbs (I'm doing about 10% of cals., avg. 50g/day).

This is the second full week of ketoing, so I have to decide if I'm going to do a carb refeed this weekend. I've been feeling fairly energetic on low carbs, so far.

I'll look into UD2 again. Thanks. :thumbup:

TheGimp
06-11-2004, 08:40 AM
Yeah definitely give UD2.0 some consideration, especially if you're already ketoing. It's essentially a CKD.

Budiak
06-13-2004, 05:23 PM
I lack discipline. Period. I don't think I could follow the UD2.0 to fruition without serious and constant external influence.

I'll give it a read. I've heard a lot about it, actually, and it seems like it is just a CKD...but I don't know what difference there could be, really. Anything beyond the basic diet archetypes tends to be too gimmicky to be viable for use by myself.

dyslexic_banana
06-18-2004, 08:55 PM
At 6', I'm not short, but at 155 pounds, I'm perhaps skinny; or at least what some would class as such. I used to be a lot lighter, actually, being about 135 pounds at the same height as I am now. Whether my weight gain's been down to my metabolism slowing down, muscle gain or both, I know not.

I can't really offer much helpful, but can say that I understand the plight of the skinny guy only too well. I was always taunted with being weedy, regardless of the fact that I didn't really lack strength. Even today, people seem to laugh at the idea of being muscular, assuming that, because I'm slim, I must also be weedy. Does the logic necessarily follow? I tend to feel too embarrassed to so much as hint that I might be slightly muscular, for fear of people laughing in my face or believing me to be being sarcastic. I personally wonder, though, whether or not it's skinniness or simple slimness, from which I've always 'suffered.' Is it to be skinny, if you simply have a naturally small frame? Does being naturally slim equal having relatively little strength? I don't know, but I don't see why it should.

I personally just reckon that slim guys simply need all the more calories to compensate for their liable slow metabolisms. I don't really see why being slim should have too negative an influence on one's muscle gaining potential. But hey: I'm not an expert.

dyslexic_banana (who is a bit perturbed as to the number of guys of his weight or above considering THEMselves skinny).