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View Full Version : casein... recommendations plz



T_Chapman
06-15-2004, 12:59 AM
i want to take casein with protein at night. to my understanding it slows down protein absorbtion and is best used before going to sleep. so thats what im planning to do. please correct me if im wrong.

i would like to buy casein but i never bought it before. i would appreciate if you guys would recommend me a brand youve been taking for a long time and believe to be the best to your knowledge.

TheGimp
06-15-2004, 02:24 AM
I buy Reflex brand micellar casein which is 80% casein 20% whey, the ratios of the protein found in milk. I have not tried any other brands because I am happy with it.

You could just buy cottage cheese.

manowar669
06-15-2004, 09:34 AM
yep, cottage cheese.

Shao-LiN
06-15-2004, 10:35 AM
i want to take casein with protein at night. to my understanding it slows down protein absorbtion and is best used before going to sleep. so thats what im planning to do. please correct me if im wrong.

i would like to buy casein but i never bought it before. i would appreciate if you guys would recommend me a brand youve been taking for a long time and believe to be the best to your knowledge.

Casein is protein.

hemants
06-15-2004, 11:22 AM
Skim milk

pruneman
06-15-2004, 11:31 AM
cheese has a lot of casein protein. I have a bowl of ff cottage cheese every night before bed.

T_Chapman
06-15-2004, 12:46 PM
sorry but cottage cheese makes me want to throw up and skim milk has too much carbs to drink before sleeping.

Shao-LiN
06-15-2004, 01:39 PM
Don't fall into the 'carbs before bed make you fat' trap. Plus, 1 cup of milk before bed won't kill you.

PiKappaWRX
06-15-2004, 01:59 PM
I buy Reflex brand micellar casein which is 80% casein 20% whey, the ratios of the protein found in milk. I have not tried any other brands because I am happy with it.

You could just buy cottage cheese.

just go with what thegimp said. btw, gimp, where do u get your reflex from?

TheGimp
06-16-2004, 02:44 AM
Here in the UK I order from www.monstersupplements.com. If I lived in North America I'd just get Nitrean. :)

Cardinal
06-16-2004, 05:09 AM
My recommendation is to go with Milk Protein Isolate from black star labs for a nighttime protein. same ratio casein as regular milk of course but with essentially no carbs. Cheaper than buying powdered milk per gram protein obtained.

Personally, I just took one of Lyle's suggestions and ran with it. I got the 50 lb back of whey protein concentrate 80 and added moderate to large amounts of psyllium fiber to it to considerably slow the digestion. Now that is cheap!

PiKappaWRX
06-16-2004, 01:24 PM
i just use nitrean

T_Chapman
06-16-2004, 03:56 PM
i just use nitrean

i never heard of nitrean. is it good?

T_Chapman
06-16-2004, 03:58 PM
im looking at bulk nutrition.com and they have micellar matrix and vpx micelean. are those good??? i need casein now. i work too hard to get muscles and i cant afford to lose too much. they said that they studied the effects of micellar matrix and found that people who used it had like 35% more muscle than people who didnt. that is so overwhelming. 35% is so much. :strong:

warreport
06-16-2004, 04:19 PM
what if i told you i studied the effects of counting sheep before bed increased my lean mass by 90%. I dont know the idenctical study, but im sure its a loaded scenario, ie trained vs untrained. Muscletech also makes outlandish claims, but you dont see many people on this board clamorign for celltech. I think you are overdoing teh catabolic effects of sleep, you will get some benefit from using casein but your not gona go to sleep l220 and wake up 190

T_Chapman
06-16-2004, 04:29 PM
what if i told you i studied the effects of counting sheep before bed increased my lean mass by 90%. I dont know the idenctical study, but im sure its a loaded scenario, ie trained vs untrained. Muscletech also makes outlandish claims, but you dont see many people on this board clamorign for celltech. I think you are overdoing teh catabolic effects of sleep, you will get some benefit from using casein but your not gona go to sleep l220 and wake up 190

you grow most when youre sleeping. so instead of your body growing 100% to its full potential you only grown 70%. casein helps you fulfill that goal of getting 100% benefit. so you probably wont drop that many pounds in one day. but you wont grow as much. i also talked to a few people and told me they didnt start growing until they started using casein.

Shao-LiN
06-16-2004, 06:59 PM
rofl

Augury
06-16-2004, 08:06 PM
Personally, I just took one of Lyle's suggestions and ran with it. I got the 50 lb back of whey protein concentrate 80 and added moderate to large amounts of psyllium fiber to it to considerably slow the digestion. Now that is cheap!

Did he post that over on his forums? do you have a link to the thread please? Sounds interesting and sensible.

Right now i eat 20g of whey and a half cup of cottage cheese for caesin before bed. Though gos alone knows why.

If I created a "protein drip" and marketed it id be a millionaire in the current "must never have blood protein drop" climate. Another 6 months and you will see articles telling you whatever you do, dont eat protein before bed becasue it inhibits the hepatic portal system and your bowels explode. blah blah. Work hard in the gym. People in the 1960's still grew just fine on 8 hours of catabolic sleep.

Augs

T_Chapman
06-16-2004, 10:04 PM
Did he post that over on his forums? do you have a link to the thread please? Sounds interesting and sensible.

Right now i eat 20g of whey and a half cup of cottage cheese for caesin before bed. Though gos alone knows why.

If I created a "protein drip" and marketed it id be a millionaire in the current "must never have blood protein drop" climate. Another 6 months and you will see articles telling you whatever you do, dont eat protein before bed becasue it inhibits the hepatic portal system and your bowels explode. blah blah. Work hard in the gym. People in the 1960's still grew just fine on 8 hours of catabolic sleep.

Augs

lol in the 60s people were not as big as they were now. only the bodybuilders were big and that was because they probably took casein at night. other people didnt do all that so they are not as muscular as people who are considered muscular nowadays. also dont forget to see the first person to ever win the olympia. if he competed in amateur bodybuilding with that body today he would be laughed at lol :D

Augury
06-17-2004, 06:01 AM
Grrr. I meant to say "bodybuilders/strongmen" in the 60's. I appreciate they arent as huge as people are today with gear...but the basic tenet of eat lean meat, train hard in the gym, sleep, eat more calories than you use will make you grow. Worring about catabolism at night is like worrying about how many wheel nuts your porsche has. You have a goddamn porsche. drive it. Fiddling around with all the supliments and suppliment timing will maybee create 5-10% more growth than not fiddling with sups. 90% of your growth is down to growth stimulation and a good diet. Obviously gear is a different matter.

TheGimp
06-17-2004, 07:03 AM
Agreed. I believe you are blowing this out of proportion T_Chapman. It will help some but it is laughable to say that the reason the bodybuilders in the 60s were big was because they had casein before bed.

Animal flesh is also slow digesting, slower than casein.

Augury
06-17-2004, 08:12 AM
Animal flesh is also slow digesting, slower than casein.

All the more reason to eat your g/f before bed :)

snorre
06-17-2004, 11:34 AM
I gained 100lbs without drinking casein before bed nor the day.. only eat cottage cheese at day time sometimes... I stay with whey!

T_Chapman
06-17-2004, 03:19 PM
Agreed. I believe you are blowing this out of proportion T_Chapman. It will help some but it is laughable to say that the reason the bodybuilders in the 60s were big was because they had casein before bed.

Animal flesh is also slow digesting, slower than casein.

argh i never said it was because of casein. i said bodybuilders took all the supplements available during that time including casein. sorry for not being clearer.

but im still very new to bodybuilding and you guys have been doing this for a long time so who am i to say anything. its just that a couple people told me they really started gaining when they started using casein.

TheGimp
06-18-2004, 03:38 AM
It's not the wonder supplement they have made it out to be. I am sure very few people here actually use casein before bed. Quite a few I am sure will have cottage cheese or mix their protein with milk and having a slow digesting pre bed meal is beneficial. If for example you had some eggs (including the yolk for fat - which also slows digestion) rather than a casein shake would it make much difference? Hard to say but I doubt it. I could not find any studies on catabolism during sleep but there are plenty of people here like snorre who do not take casein and are still successful.

And of course like any supplement, it cannot make up for poor diet or training.

Nitrean (http://www.atlargenutrition.com/nutrition_detail.php?products_id=1) is a protein blend containing egg, whey and casein protein, although I am unsure of the ratios. It's got great reviews and you'll be supporting the site by buying it. Check out the AtLarge forum for more info.

Cardinal
06-19-2004, 05:03 PM
Did he post that over on his forums? do you have a link to the thread please? Sounds interesting and sensible.


Augs

Yep, he posted this at bodyrecomposition....Verbatim...




Yes. the whole issue of whey and casein appears to only matter under the rather artificial situation where you give folks 30 grams of each first thing in the morning with no other nutrients.

When you change the dynamics of the feeding, you change the dynamics of the protein kinetics.

Using whey (cheap as **** in bulk) and adding some psyllium fiber (or throwing it into 8 oz of 1% milk which is still fine on a lowcarb diet or use a small amount of heavy cream diluted with water if the whopping 12 grams of carbs in the milk is offensive to you) eliminated all of the potential 'problems' of insulin spike or whatever. You slow gastric emptying with the fiber and/or fat/carbs and it all becomes a total non-issue.

Seriously, as I said in that 4 piece article so many years ago, I thought the whey vs. casein thing was much ado about nothing and I think I made comments similar to what I just wrote above. It's always nice to turn out to be right in hindsight.

Lyle



Here (http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1161&highlight=whey+fiber)

BulkMeUp
06-21-2004, 03:13 PM
All the more reason to eat your g/f before bed :) :nod: :zipit: