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T_Chapman
06-16-2004, 03:55 PM
lets say i stop working out for one week. i eat a lot and gain 10 pounds. then i play basketball to lose the 10 pounds before i start lifting again. would i lose muscle when i lose the 10 pounds even though i wasnt even weightlifting or gaining any muscle when I got it?

Spartacus
06-16-2004, 04:58 PM
yeah your body will use muscle for energy when youre dieting no matter what you were doing in the past

JTyrell710
06-16-2004, 05:01 PM
its true, kinda sucks when ya think about it.

T_Chapman
06-16-2004, 05:06 PM
that really does suck.

what if i ate just ate a big mac combo right now and then i play basketball to burn off the calories? would i still lose muscle even though i burned off fewer calories than the big mac has?

JTyrell710
06-16-2004, 05:17 PM
--hmm i dont think so
i think you'd burn it before it turned to body fat

T_Chapman
06-16-2004, 05:33 PM
--hmm i dont think so
i think you'd burn it before it turned to body fat

thats what im hoping for so i could play a lot of basketball. i think i probably burn at least 2000 calories when i play.

Jasonl
06-16-2004, 06:01 PM
10lbs in a week is likely a lot of water weight.

JTyrell710
06-16-2004, 06:12 PM
you'd still gain a little more fat then u would if you ate healthy but if ur doin bball im sure u can eat a bigmac or 2 or 3 or 4(only 4 if youre me)

Augury
06-17-2004, 05:49 AM
Its going to be about partitioning, but first off you are going to have to do some serious eating (i dont think its even close to possible) to put on 10lbs in a week - even of fat. Water/glycogen perhaps...not fat. Anyhow...

If you eat more calories than you burn you will gain weight. How much of that weight gained is stored bodyfat, water and muscle is down to what you are doing when you gain it. Each of us has a genetic ratio of fat to muscle when we gain weight...so i might gain 1 lb of fat with every 1 lb of muscle i put on. These numbers arent real...just examples. If i weight train, eat protein etc etc as im in a calofiic excess (ie stimulate growth of muscle) i can shift the balance perhaps to 1.5 lb of muscle and 0.5lb of fat. The excess calieries are being driven into muscular growth/repair and so less of them get stored as fat.

On the flip side when you diet the reverse happens. You may generically lose 1lb of muscle for every 1 lb of fat you lose in a diet. (poor sod). Again you can shift this balance by weight training during the process...stimulating new growth of muscle. So the protein wasting effect of the diet is countered either totally or partially by the weight training, protein sparing effect of a high protein intake etc. So you may lose 1.5lb of fat and 0.5lb of muscle as the diet progresses assuming training and good diet setup.

If you do none of these things...then you can bet your ass your body will be inefficient with regards to muscle sparing. You eat to put on weight but dont train...assume more of it is fat and water than muscle (you arent training why would your body need to maintain calorifically expensive muscle?). You then do cardio at a later date to burn it off in conjunction wioth a calorific deficit (this is a form of exercise even if not directly a hypertrophic growth stimulant) and so you will be using up glycogen and it needs replacing and it will come from your diet first. If you dont eat enough it will come from fat stores.

However the fater you try and lose weight the more your met rate slows down to compensate. Cyclical carb diets get around this with refeeding. The net upshot of all this is going to be that it might take you 2 weeks to put on some weight (think high fat + water and low muscle) and 6 weeks to get it back off again (think low fatloss, high waterloss, high muscle loss) , but in the process you will have lost more muscle than you started with.

The trick is to train weights when you bulk (no ****) and to train weights when you diet. That way the muscle stays and the fat goes. Simplistically speaking. there are too many variables in the above examples to be even close to accurate but the general picure is there. The body likes to store fat (it keeps you alive in famine) and i likes to shed muscle (it costs a calorific fortune to keep it hanging off your skeleton). It will only keep the muscle if there is a reason - ie: its being used/stimulated. Thats why you lose muscle when you lay in a hospital bed for 12 weeks. it wastes away as its not needed (atrophy)

Im not even sure if that answered the question. I got a little sidetracked :)

Augs

T_Chapman
06-17-2004, 03:26 PM
omg what the heck was that? you didnt answer my question at all and you made me read paragraphs of scientific info i understand none of. im sorry but im still new to weightlifting and i would appreciate a direct answer in plain ol english thank you! example: "yes you will still lose muscle." or "no the big mac has not been converted to fat yet so your muscle will stay. all of it!"

i would prefer the latter lol

JTyrell710
06-17-2004, 03:32 PM
yeaa augs, only geniuses like me might understand that-- not to get side tracked, augs- answer tchap's q, then answer this- in Kill Vill volume 1, a lady is in a coma for four year, she wakes up, falls out of her bed an drags her self into a car, now she tries to move her little toe, and it takes a while but she wiggles it- now i was thinkin
with 4 years of muscular atrophy, her toes WOULD still work (does the cns /neurons degrade? i didnt think too much) but she wouldnt have been able to move her body any distance, especially not crawling on her stomach, walking definatley not.. etc.. but im just askin i guess- do neurons/cns degrade simillar to muscular atrophy if not used? and, how much would she be able to do of what she did after 4 years of atrophy.

Holto
06-17-2004, 04:08 PM
neural efficency (strength) declines when activity is reduced

70% of the strength old people lose with aging is due to neurological decline

conversely this strength is much easier to regain as it's not dependant on protein synthesis

T_Chapman
06-17-2004, 04:13 PM
neural efficency (strength) declines when activity is reduced

70% of the strength old people lose with aging is due to neurological decline

conversely this strength is much easier to regain as it's not dependant on protein synthesis

i hope you were refering to jtyrell's question because i have no idea what you just said right now.

JTyrell710
06-17-2004, 04:44 PM
if you have enhanced neural efficiency, and it declines due to x factor (aging, coma whatever) is it easier to regain your efficency up to the point you were at before, then it is to go over that point?
il rephrase that, is it easier to regain neural efficency then it is just to gain it?

Augury
06-17-2004, 06:38 PM
*grumbles*

you pm'd me Tchapman and asked me to answer this thread cos im always posting scientific claptrap and then when i do you moan you cant understand it lol.

it wasnt that tricky. if you eat a load of crap, dont train you will put on fat and muscle. just mostly fat and a little muscle. when you then try to reverse that effect with a diet and cardio (and it takes a LOT longer than putting it on to get it off) you will lose fat and muscle.

The proportions you lose are down to what you are planning on doing when you gain the weight and lose the weight.

The chances are you will lose more muscle than you started with if you just eat crap and then go on a diet with cardio and no weight training. i hate making generalizations tho....cos in a month you will be telling me that you did it all and gained muscle or something and ill be like..."well....i was generalizing cos you asked me too" and you will be like "eat me" and ill be like "WHATEVER"....etc etc.

Anyhow im having a laugh typing this even if you arent laughing reading it.

As for the Kill Bill thing....what a pile of crap. 4 years in a coma and there would be atrophy. i can live with the "figuring out how to move the toes and limbs thing" over a period of 12 hours....but there aint no way you will have recovered from the muscular atrophy in 12 hours enough to walk and drive the "pussy wagon". would take months and months of rehab. tsk. Hollywood.

Still....nice swords.
Augs

T_Chapman
06-17-2004, 11:43 PM
*grumbles*

you pm'd me Tchapman and asked me to answer this thread cos im always posting scientific claptrap and then when i do you moan you cant understand it lol.

it wasnt that tricky. if you eat a load of crap, dont train you will put on fat and muscle. just mostly fat and a little muscle. when you then try to reverse that effect with a diet and cardio (and it takes a LOT longer than putting it on to get it off) you will lose fat and muscle.

The proportions you lose are down to what you are planning on doing when you gain the weight and lose the weight.

The chances are you will lose more muscle than you started with if you just eat crap and then go on a diet with cardio and no weight training. i hate making generalizations tho....cos in a month you will be telling me that you did it all and gained muscle or something and ill be like..."well....i was generalizing cos you asked me too" and you will be like "eat me" and ill be like "WHATEVER"....etc etc.

Anyhow im having a laugh typing this even if you arent laughing reading it.

As for the Kill Bill thing....what a pile of crap. 4 years in a coma and there would be atrophy. i can live with the "figuring out how to move the toes and limbs thing" over a period of 12 hours....but there aint no way you will have recovered from the muscular atrophy in 12 hours enough to walk and drive the "pussy wagon". would take months and months of rehab. tsk. Hollywood.

Still....nice swords.
Augs

im so sorry. i really dont know what youre talking about. okay. i know what youre talking about kind of. but what are you talking about? oh boy. i feel like im going in circles here.

i asked you if i ate a big mac and then played basketball enough to burn all 1000 calories of a big mac would i lose any muscle? this is what i asked you. i dont know whos question youre answering above. it sounds nothing like what i asked you. youre talking about going on a diet. who said im going on a diet???

if im wrong then im so so so sorry. i guess im just really stupid. i still dont understand. i wish you would just refer to the question that i asked you and you stopped talking about things i didnt ask about. please dont get angry. thx...

btw youre very funny. :p

JTyrell710
06-18-2004, 12:00 AM
btw youre very funny. :p


stop hittin on augs, he drives the pussywagon. :hump:

Augury
06-18-2004, 05:35 AM
lol. glad i amuse.

honestly...ive been posting into this thread whilst revising so hard for some exams and also on the low carb portion of my diet (call me Mr Fuzzyhead) this week that i am prolly answering the wrong question. sorry if im totally confusing you.

The reason i answered about "diets" was becasue i was answering this question "lets say i stop working out for one week. i eat a lot and gain 10 pounds. then i play basketball to lose the 10 pounds before i start lifting again. would i lose muscle when i lose the 10 pounds even though i wasnt even weightlifting or gaining any muscle when I got it?".

to gain 10lbs in a week isnt a bigmac...its a diet. its a significant change of eating habbits. and so will trying to get rid of that 10lbs.

eating a bigmac will flood your body with fat and protein. if you do cardio straight after then you will burn up glycogen stores in the muscle which will be eventually replaced by the carbs that were in the bun of the bigmac. the fat and protein of the bigmack will be stored as you havent stimulated muscle growth or have a need to burn the fat. will you loose muscle after doing this exact thing? no. will you loose muscle by trying to work of 10lbs off weight gain through only cartdio and a calory deficit diet? yes.

I cant think of any other way to answer this so i officially give up if you still dont get what im saying and hope someone else can shoot ya an answer.

Note: I can only dream of owning a pussywagon. I used to own a BMW M3 a few years ago but i also has a longtern g/f at the time and so it didnt quite generate the same....erm...effect. Mind you...it was FAST.

back to revision.
Augs

Holto
06-18-2004, 10:18 AM
il rephrase that, is it easier to regain neural efficency then it is just to gain it?

absolutely

this is part of the phenomemon people refer to as muscle memory

strength is re-gained much more easily

in BB it also has to do with Motor Programs developed for each exercise

I belive the Motor Cortex stores this info...

and this is why a guy with a huge incline can struggle with flat if he dosen't do it regularly

*done trashing T's thread now*

HemiVision
06-18-2004, 11:31 AM
omg what the heck was that? you didnt answer my question at all and you made me read paragraphs of scientific info i understand none of. im sorry but im still new to weightlifting and i would appreciate a direct answer in plain ol english thank you! example: "yes you will still lose muscle." or "no the big mac has not been converted to fat yet so your muscle will stay. all of it!"

i would prefer the latter lol

Here's some even simpler advice - stay away from that McDonald's trash. It's horrible, foul stuff. Seriously.

T_Chapman
06-18-2004, 03:23 PM
Here's some even simpler advice - stay away from that McDonald's trash. It's horrible, foul stuff. Seriously.

lol yeah i know. i hate mcdonalds and i havent eaten a burger from them for four years now. the only thing i eat from mcdonalds is apple pies and ice cream cones. the rest are a ripoff and it doesnt even feel like i ate anything. the only reason why i used mcdonalds as an example is because everyone knows what mcdonalds is.

ill eat carls jr guacamole bacon six dollar burger which is my favorite.

Maxgain
06-20-2004, 03:03 PM
*

As for the Kill Bill thing....what a pile of crap. 4 years in a coma and there would be atrophy. i can live with the "figuring out how to move the toes and limbs thing" over a period of 12 hours....but there aint no way you will have recovered from the muscular atrophy in 12 hours enough to walk and drive the "pussy wagon". would take months and months of rehab. tsk. Hollywood.

Augs

Ah! maybe for normal people but for the deadliest assassin of the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad who can dodge bullets puch through buried coffins and kill armies of men with her sword nothing is impossible.

Maxgain
06-20-2004, 03:04 PM
*

As for the Kill Bill thing....what a pile of crap. 4 years in a coma and there would be atrophy. i can live with the "figuring out how to move the toes and limbs thing" over a period of 12 hours....but there aint no way you will have recovered from the muscular atrophy in 12 hours enough to walk and drive the "pussy wagon". would take months and months of rehab. tsk. Hollywood.

Augs

Ah! maybe for normal people but for the deadliest assassin of the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad who can dodge bullets punch through buried coffins after being shot with a shotgun and kill armies of men with her sword nothing is impossible.