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eugeneeg
08-10-2004, 02:22 PM
Hi,

I think I need your help to figure out what I'm doing wrong and where I'm ok. The short story is that I follow Protein Power/Paleo Diet lifestyle and in about 7 month lost 65lbs. Through this period I have been exercising with weight/cardio.

My brief profile. I'm 31 year old caucasian male, 6"00, turning 32 this September. My current weight range is 149lbs - 150lbs and according to Tanita's weight scale my body fat range is 10% - 11.2%, I'm guessing my frame as small to medium.

My focus now is to refine my weight lifting program and gain lean muscle mass. Although I would love to have Arnolds kind of a body my dream body is Bruce Lee's like, very lean, defined muscles and low weight. My problem area is lower abdominal where there seems to be a last hold of visible (at least to me) fat and that area isn't as flat as I would like it to be. Knowing that spot reduction is a myth I think I need to loose a little more weight to be in the range of 143lbs - 145lbs and hopefully my lower abdominal will improve as well.

Hugo, I would really appreciate if could review my eating/supplementation plan and provide your feedback, because I have a feeling I'm not doing it properly for the weight
lifting program. So here we go.

Wake up 6:45 am.

7 am.
On an empty stomach I take Beta 1,3 Glucan (200mg), L-glutamine (2000mg), L-Carnitine (3000mg).

7:45 am.
Protein shake (BioChem Low Carb). I add to it about 3oz of berries (a combination of strawberries, raspberries or blackberries) just a bit of water and either 9 grams soluble
fiber (http://www.benefiber.com) or 15 grams of insoluble fiber (MetaFiber - http://www.metagenics.com/products/...ail.asp?pid=121), I also add to it 1 or
1/2 bottle of Bio-K + original dairy form (1 bottle 98 grams or half a bottle is 49grams) (http://www.biokplus.com/product_det...id=5707&f=1)
With the protein shake I take my vitamins (New Chapter Every Man multi vitamin), plus magnesium (250mg), chromium (200mg), vitamin E (400 UI), selenium (100mg),
potassium (200mg), 1000mg FOS.

11 am.
Water with fiber.
1oz of raw chopped broccoli, 1oz raw chopped spinach or mache. Sometimes I add 0.5oz
of other herbs like cilantro, dill, etc.
2.5oz/3oz home prepared turkey breast roast (no skin).
2 teaspoons of cold pressed oil (walnut, or macadamia, or avocado).
New Chapter Gingerforce.

1 pm.
Atkins Accel

2pm.
Water with fiber.
Same as 11:00 am (the variation can be that I might substitute protein source. Instead of turkey breast 2.5oz/3oz of grilled bison/buffalo, salmon, shrimp, cod or home prepared grilled ground buffalo mini patty). Plus, magnesium (250mg), chromium (200mg), New Chapter Garlicforce, Atkins Fat Burner (protein/carb digestive enzyme formula).

4 pm.
Atkins Accel

5 pm.
Water with fiber.
2.5oz/3oz of either turkey breast, grilled bison/buffalo, salmon, shrimp, cod or home prepared grilled ground buffalo mini patty.
4 - 5 radishes, half of a cucumber.
Atkins Fat Burner (protein/carb digestive enzyme formula).

Between the meals I also take R-Lipoic Acid (400mg) and New Chapter Green/White tea capsules.

8 pm (9pm on the workout day)
Water with fiber.
Same as 11am or 2 pm.
Carlons fish oil – 1 table spoon
CoEnzyme Q10 (200mg)
Potassium (200mg)
Vitamin E (400UI)
Magnesium (250mg)

12pm – 12:30pm
Half a cap (120 grams) of regular goat yogurt.
Magnesium (500mg slow release formula).

1pm.
L-glutamine (2000mg or 3000mg).

My total water intake for a day is 1 gallon or maybe a little more sometimes.
I forgot to mention that I also use canned, salt free, water packed sardines and eggs as my protein sources. I substitute my 2.5oz - 3oz protein portion with 1.5 cans of sardines, I eat no more then six whole eggs sometimes less (omega 3 enriched eggs). I don't eat: salt, refined sugar (I use Xylinol instead rarely, maybe once a week), any kind of bread, rice, cookies, pasta, serial, no fruits other then barriers in my protein shake or occasional small piece of some kind of fruit. Sometimes I add little bell pepper to my salad or make a salad from mixed greens.

On the weekends I drink 1 cup of coffee with 1.5 teaspoon Xylitol and about 2 table spoons of Half and Half. I also treat myself to up to 2, 3 squares of sugar free 100% chocolate, 1 cup of cocoa with 1.5 teaspoon Xylitol and 2 maybe 3 table spoons of Half and Half. Sometimes I can eat Low Carb mini cheesecake, Low Carb Keto pudding, things like that, but I don't eat it all on one day and not every weekend.

Please let me know what you think about my nutrition/supplementation and how I need to adjust it to have that Bruce Lee like ripped, lean body. I tried to be detailed with my description, but I might have missed something. Please ask questions to get a correct picture of what and how I eat. One last thing I'd like to mention is that when you make your recommendation please keep in mind that I'd prefer to stay away of high carb items like any grains, pasta, bread, oatmeal, rice, etc if possible, beans, etc.

Thank you so much and looking forward to hear from you guys.

P.S. I'm thinking about trying Hot Rox or Lean System 7. This guy (http://www.ultimatefatburner.com/best-fat-burners.html ) seems to recommend Lean System 7 over Hot Rox. What would you recommend? Is there anything better then Hot-Rox or Lean System 7?

-Eugene

geoffgarcia
08-10-2004, 02:44 PM
what are your total daily calories, fats, carbs, proteins?
very roughly adding up what you posted above I can't see that being more than 1300 calories unless I missed something...

Also you seem to be heavily over supplementing yourself...

eugeneeg
08-10-2004, 02:53 PM
geoffgarcia,

I think you're about right. My calories are somewhere in the range you've mentioned. What suppliments do you think I shouldn't be taking?

_-_v_-_
08-10-2004, 03:09 PM
That's an absolutely ridiculous plan.

I've been there. I've starved myself.

Trust me -- you DON'T want to do that.

geoffgarcia
08-10-2004, 03:09 PM
Beta 1,3 Glucan (200mg), L-glutamine (2000mg), L-Carnitine (3000mg).
Protein shake (BioChem Low Carb)
either 9 grams soluble fiber (http://www.benefiber.com) or 15 grams of insoluble fiber (MetaFiber - http://www.metagenics.com/products/...ail.asp?pid=121)
1 or 1/2 bottle of Bio-K + original dairy form (1 bottle 98 grams or half a bottle is 49grams) (http://www.biokplus.com/product_det...id=5707&f=1)
New Chapter Every Man multi vitamin
plus magnesium (250mg)
chromium (200mg)
vitamin E (400 UI)
selenium (100mg)
potassium (200mg)
1000mg FOS
2 teaspoons of cold pressed oil (walnut, or macadamia, or avocado).
New Chapter Gingerforce.
Atkins Accel
magnesium (250mg)
chromium (200mg)
New Chapter Garlicforce
Atkins Fat Burner (protein/carb digestive enzyme formula).
Atkins Accel
Atkins Fat Burner (protein/carb digestive enzyme formula).
R-Lipoic Acid (400mg)
New Chapter Green/White tea capsules.
Carlons fish oil – 1 table spoon
CoEnzyme Q10 (200mg)
Potassium (200mg)
Vitamin E (400UI)
Magnesium (250mg)
Half a cap (120 grams) of regular goat yogurt.
Magnesium (500mg slow release formula).
L-glutamine (2000mg or 3000mg).
XylinolLow Carb mini cheesecake
Low Carb Keto pudding
Hot Rox
Lean System 7In my opinion you should triple your calories, keep the multiVit and fish oils and drop everything else.

On a 1000-1300 calorie diet taking in all this stuff is probably doing you some good because your basically starving your body...
However if you were eating a proper diet you would probably be healthier, save a ton of money, and have better results in terms of fat loss and muscle gain.

eugeneeg
08-10-2004, 03:13 PM
That's an absolutely ridiculous plan.

I've been there. I've starved myself.

Trust me -- you DON'T want to do that.

I'm not hungry, but I hear ya'. So what is your recommendation?

eugeneeg
08-10-2004, 03:20 PM
In my opinion you should triple your calories, keep the multiVit and fish oils and drop everything else.

On a 1000-1300 calorie diet taking in all this stuff is probably doing you some good because your basically starving your body...
However if you were eating a proper diet you would probably be healthier, save a ton of money, and have better results in terms of fat loss and muscle gain.

Wellwhat would be a proper diet considering my present weight?
I dont want to have huge muscles just have more/defined muscles.
Arnolds body is nice, but my dream is Bruce Lees kind of body.
How do I triple my calories? Do I add protein, carbs? I mean currently
I think I eat about 1 gram of protein for each lbs of my weight. Isnt
that a typical recommendation?

geoffgarcia
08-10-2004, 03:45 PM
Protein is just one of the fuels your body needs.
Calories are king.
You need carbs and fats also!

I dont see how your gettin 1g per lb of body weight in that diet...
I see a total of 6oz of chicken which is about 40g of protein
a protein shake, which I'd guess is about 35g
and MAYBE 10g from those extra sources on your list

also I only see about 15g of fat in there?
and maybe 80g of carbs?

I'd recommend SLOWLY ramping up your diet till your consuming about 2600 calories.
Increase your daily calories by 300 each week.
So week 1 go from 1300 to 1600, then 1600 to 1900 the next week, etc...
If your jump from 1300 to 2600 in one night I guarantee you'll put on a ton of fat...and this would probably discourage you. The fact is you've basically ground your metabolism and leptin levels to the floor...on top of that your running below basal metabolic rate, which means your body is triaging your internal organs to give you enough energy to get by in the day. This is not good.

For 2600 calories a healthy target would be to get fats around 65g, carbs around 250 and proteins around 250.

How to come up to those numbers would depend on what you like ot eat.
proteins: chicken, turkey, fish, eggs, protein formulas
carbs: oatmeal, brown rice, protein enriched pastas, mixed vegetables/fruits
fats: olive, hemp, fish

2600 will not turn you into arnold. 3600 won't either.
5000-6000 for about 15 years straight MIGHT...
so dont worry about turning into arnold over night.

There was an article on yahoo news that said the avg (male/female, all sports) athlete preparing for the summer olympics is consuming 5k calories per day, and the avg weight lifter is taking down 10k

eugeneeg
08-10-2004, 04:10 PM
Protein is just one of the fuels your body needs.
Calories are king.
You need carbs and fats also!

I dont see how your gettin 1g per lb of body weight in that diet...
I see a total of 6oz of chicken which is about 40g of protein
a protein shake, which I'd guess is about 35g
and MAYBE 10g from those extra sources on your list

also I only see about 15g of fat in there?
and maybe 80g of carbs?

I eat 6 times a day every 3 hours.
1 - Protein shake (40grams)
2 - 2.5/3 oz of either turkey breast or lean red meat cut or fish
3 - 2.5/3 oz of either turkey breast or lean red meat cut or fish
4 - 2.5/3 oz of either turkey breast or lean red meat cut or fish
5 - 2.5/3 oz of either turkey breast or lean red meat cut or fish
6 - full fat (not low fat) yogurt (half a cup)

So that is 40 grams of whey in the morning, plus a total of 12 oz or maybe a little less or a little more of protein from either fish or meat (this is not counting yogurt). Does it not add up to about 150 grams of protein a day?

Carbs:

1 half a cup of strawberries and of a cup of other berries (raspberries, blackberries)
2 1oz broccoli and 1oz of spinach (sometime I add about 0.5 oz of other herbs)
3 - 1oz broccoli and 1oz of spinach (sometime I add about 0.5 oz of other herbs)
4 about 5 radishes and half of cucumber
5 - 1oz broccoli and 1oz of spinach (sometime I add about 0.5 oz of other herbs) or 2oz of different herbs like cilantro, etc
6 no veggies, sometimes I can add a few berries to the yogurt.

Fats:

a total of 1.5 maybe 2 table spoons of either walnut, macadamia, avocado or olive oils, plus 1.5 table spoon of a fish oil.

geoffgarcia
08-10-2004, 04:22 PM
Eug, I punched ur diet into my diet tracking software and this is how it looks, only thing is it doesn't take into account your protien shake!
I just grouped the carbs, fats, proteins, together to make it easier for me to add in.
If you want me to adjust anything and reprint it lemme know!

calories: 876
fats: 45
carbs: 24.5
protein: 83.2

if ya add 40g of protein from that shake it bumps ya up to this:
calories: 1036
fats: 45
carbs: 24.5
protein: 123.2

unless I'm missing some things in your diet?

Also attached are the vits/minerals in the food you eat.
And the other one attached is what your vits would look like from just adding a centrum performance multi vit.
BTW, ur potassium intake is around 1400mg on that diet.

eugeneeg
08-10-2004, 09:26 PM
Geoffgarcia,

Thank you for doing all the work with numbers.
I have the software as well just hadn't have time to get to it yet, but I will soon. I did do some ruff calculations and came up a bit higher (or so I thought) on the protein. With regard to vitamins/mineral I do take New Chapter Multi Vitamin for men formula, so those numbers should be different.
You can see what is in them by following this link.
http://www.newchapter.info/product/pro_nutrient.lasso?-database=NC_Products&-layout=Product&-response=%2fproduct%2fproduct.lasso&-recordID=53&-search

Sooo...How my ratios should look like?
40/40/20 (protein/carbs/fats)?

What about post workout protein shake?
Should I use it? What kind...whey, casein, protein matrix? With or without carbs, like should I add berries to it?

Thanks!

geoffgarcia
08-10-2004, 09:58 PM
eug,
whether you take chicken/turkey/fish the numbers will be slightly different and can be +/- 40g or so for the same quantity, based on density of the food, and fat content as well.
A pound of chicken thighs won't be the same as a pound of turkey breasts.

Don't worry so much about ratios. Just use them as a general rule of thumb. Your total calories, and total grams of each thing are whats most important.

Your multivit looks good.
The only concern would be cost.
That bottle is 30$ for 90 pills vs something like centrum performance (120 pills for 19$) or its generic competitors (120 pills for 12$) which you can get for a fraction of the cost.

As for post workout protein there are 2 camps with differing opinion
camp 1 says go for a blended protein from different sources (meaning not just milk proteins) and that variety in absorption rates, amino acids, etc.. is most important

camp 2 says to go for a fast digesting protein source and carbs (such as dextrose/maltodextrin) to cause an insulin spike and be a catalyst for faster protein absorption at this time.

Camp 1 disagrees with camp 2 because they believe that the stomach and duodenum are most likely not empty post workout, so digestion isn't going to be fast anyway. So rather than waste money/effort on a fast digesting protein you should just go for the sure thing which is a blend which, both camps agrees tends to have greater absorption.

Camp 2 disagrees with camp 1 because by arguing that liquid meals can circumvent solid food and basically cut in line. Also they believe that "just in case it works" that its worth the effort.

There are plenty of topics/threads that have already been made on this subject, mostly because there is a ton of good information to support/refute each side, yet nothing decisive!
You can use the search tool to find the posts here on WBB.

The most important thing is to get enough calories in a day, and ideally to get a variety of sources to make sure your diet is well balanced and your not missing any vital nutrients.

Anyway, I hope this helps. And don't take my word for it on any of this stuff, there are plenty of people on this board that are much smarter than me, they just dont have the gobs of free time that I have to respond so much *hahahah*

I have collected some useful information that I've learned on this board so if you ever get bored and feel like wading through some nutrition information check this link:
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?p=825217#post825217