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Dirty Sanchez
09-05-2004, 08:28 AM
Anyone have success with these? How many carbs (if any) did you consume?

harryhoudini66
09-05-2004, 02:44 PM
Less then 20 grams per day. Two day loading per week. Lost 70 pounds.

Dirty Sanchez
09-06-2004, 08:52 AM
What was the breakdown as far as %'s for P/C/F ? Congrats on losing 70 lbs. Did you loose any strength?

Adetweiler
09-06-2004, 09:07 AM
What kind of foods did you eat on your loading days?

harryhoudini66
09-06-2004, 12:55 PM
Go for about 75-100 grams of fat. 150-170 grams of protein.

900 Fat Calories
680 Protein Calories


loaded on:

Bagels
Cereal
Low fat ice cream
Oatmeal
Pretzels
Fruit Snacks
Chex mix
Natural Peanut Butter Sandwiches (Whole wheat bread)

harryhoudini66
09-06-2004, 12:59 PM
What was the breakdown as far as %'s for P/C/F ? Congrats on losing 70 lbs. Did you loose any strength?

not sure on the strength loss since I did not have much or excercised before I started.

Mannequin
09-13-2004, 06:16 PM
what importance do the loading days hold?

waynis
09-13-2004, 07:30 PM
Less then 20 grams per day. Two day loading per week. Lost 70 pounds.

how much of that do you figure lean body mass? By doing this can you force the body to only use fat as it's main energy source? or will you start using amino acids as well? YOu can't have much energy can you?

Mission
09-13-2004, 09:55 PM
The body needs carbs. Otherwise it'll start using proteins/fats for engergy (most of you prolly know this already).

I eat a well balanced variety of foods. Here's my usual meal plan and it's given satisfying results:

Breakfast- 2 packets of oatmeal, a glass of milk, some fruit
Mid morning- a scoop of whey protein isolate powder mixed with milk and a banana
Lunch- turkey sandwitch with lettuce and mayo, ice tea, candy bar, apple
Late afternoon- cake/pie/cookies, milk
Dinner- some kind of meat (steak, honey ham, burger or whatever), bread, salad
Snack- cottage cheese, bread, a tablespoon of peanut butter

Keep in mind, hroughout the whole day I'm drinking water

Vido
09-13-2004, 09:58 PM
The body needs carbs. Otherwise it'll start using proteins/fats for engergy (most of you prolly know this already).

I eat a well balanced variety of foods. Here's my usual meal plan and it's given satisfying results:

Breakfast- 2 packets of oatmeal, a glass of milk, some fruit
Mid morning- a scoop of whey protein isolate powder mixed with milk and a banana
Lunch- turkey sandwitch with lettuce and mayo, ice tea, candy bar, apple
Late afternoon- cake/pie/cookies, milk
Dinner- some kind of meat (steak, honey ham, burger or whatever), bread, salad
Snack- cottage cheese, bread, a tablespoon of peanut butter

Keep in mind, hroughout the whole day I'm drinking water

The body doesn't "need" carbs. You can argue that the brain needs carbs, but that's about it.

I'm quite certain that you would see more "satisfying results" if you weren't eating cookies or cake as a meal.

Mystic Eric
09-13-2004, 10:30 PM
The body doesn't "need" carbs. You can argue that the brain needs carbs, but that's about it.

I'm quite certain that you would see more "satisfying results" if you weren't eating cookies or cake as a meal.

Well, not to knit pick but you eat boxes of cookies (about 3 at a time) as meals and you're pretty stacked (214).

Maki Riddington
09-13-2004, 11:52 PM
214 huh. Wow, last time I saw you, you were about 200.

Paul Stagg
09-14-2004, 08:31 AM
Anyone have success with these? How many carbs (if any) did you consume?

I had some success with a TKD.

70% fat, 30% pro, nearly 0 carbs.

25-50g of dextrose either right before, during, or right after training (I did before), with a protein shake immediately after, then a keto meal about an hour later.

waynis
09-14-2004, 05:39 PM
The body doesn't "need" carbs. You can argue that the brain needs carbs, but that's about it.

I'm quite certain that you would see more "satisfying results" if you weren't eating cookies or cake as a meal.

I would disagree with this unless your talking about less energy and still going? From personal experience I'd feel like I had the flu all the time if i didnt eat carbs.

Mannequin
09-15-2004, 12:48 PM
Go for about 75-100 grams of fat. 150-170 grams of protein.

900 Fat Calories
680 Protein Calories



How much did you weigh before when you did this intake?

geoffgarcia
09-15-2004, 01:11 PM
Lost 70 pounds

900 Fat Calories
680 Protein Calories

Total= 1580 calories
your weight loss probably had more to do with you eating only 1600 calories per day than the fact that you had eliminated carbs.

waynis
09-15-2004, 02:55 PM
your weight loss probably had more to do with you eating only 1600 calories per day than the fact that you had eliminated carbs.

i agree.

Leprechaun
09-16-2004, 07:19 AM
1. Does the body need carbs? yes and no. At the cellular level the body needs to be able to convert glycogen to ATP to run cellular respiration, so this would be the yes part. The no part is that regardless of your metabolic state (sugar or fat burner) the body will utilize some protein through gluconeogenesis to provide the glycogen, otherwise the millions of people in this country using the atkins, south beach, etc. diets would fall over dead.

2. Types of ketogenic diets? so many that you can't even count. If you exercise, the only 3 that i would recommend would be a TKD, CKD or NHE because the others don't factor in glycogen supercompensation or the testosterone improving effects of carb loading.

3. Does just eating a balanced diet and eating below maintenance calories work just as well as more targeted approaches like low carb diets? If you are an ectomorph and parition nutrients mostly as energy then the answer is yes. If you do not partition well, I will never believe that merely cleaning up your diet or dropping calories is the key, there are many overweight people, especially women, that have used intense decreases in calorie consumption and all they got were smaller versions of the same body type. Because i do not yet have the training or the vocabulary to get into the fine details, i believe that a combination of calorie cycling and keeping insulin stable will yield the best results to someone who is overweight trying to improve their body composition.

waynis
09-16-2004, 07:52 PM
why would you wanna become catabolic on your muscles though by letting protein be one of the main fuel sources to break down for energy? There's only 2 if i remember amino acids that can be turned into glucose. Protein is definetly not a reliable or the best source for energy. Carbs clearly are.

EviscerationX
09-17-2004, 02:39 AM
The need for carbohydrates in the diet varies a great deal depending on your level of activity. The body requires about 60 grams of carbohydrates simply to carry on the basic processes of the nervous system (the brain, for example, is fueled almost entirely by carbohydrates).

Carbohydrates are also an important fuel for muscular activity (duh). So if your diet is too low in carbohydrates, your workouts will suffer.

When it comes to carbohydrates, the amount you choose to eat is largely governed by whether you are trying to gain, lose or maintain weight. If your not getting enough, your body goes into a state of ketosis, hence the name of the ketosis or keto diet.

In nutritional terms, your best bet is to include some of each type of carbohydrate in your daily diet. Some carbs can metabolize very quickly. Fruits contain high glycemic carbs, so they are good for providing short-term energy, as well as being loaded with essential vitamins. Low glycemic carbs, which take a much longer time for the body to process, turn into energy and provide long-term, time-release energy and nutrition with minimum calories. Green an yellow vegetables are good carbs source.

Ketosis is the result of carb deprivation. Your body requires adequate amounts of carbs in order to properly metabolize fat. When there is not enough carbs in the body for this process to take place (usually the result of an over-strict diet like the one you're proposing), the body has to take emergency measures. The primary symptom of ketosis is ketonemia, the appearance of ketone bodies in the blood. Ketone bodies are the product of the incomplete burning of fats. These ketones can be used in place of glycogen for energy production, and they can also be used as energy to fuel brain and nervous system funtion (which otherwise rely entirely on glycogen).

The problem is that ketone bodies are not nearly as efficient in fueling exercise as glycogen. In a prolonged state of ketosis, you tend to be sluggish, your mental processes suffer, and your body gradually becomes dehydrated. Worse, in the absence of carbs you body begins to metabolize larger and larger amounts of amino acids (protein...duh) for additional energy. This is obviously highly counterproductive for anyone trying to build and maintain a foundation of solid muscle mass (so this is a crappy diet if you're going to be working out as well...it's a "lose weight only" diet).
You could also confuse the loss of fat with the loss of water weight due to the dehydration. The ketosis diet seems to make you not feel as hungry as well.

Low carb would still be better than no carb if you really want to go on this diet. Just drink an assload of water and get lots of fat and protein, but don't plan on gaining massive mucle tissue in the process...