creatine cylcing

[dasher]

guys im confused one guy sais to cycle creatine 8 weeks on 2 weeks of and another sais no need to cycle? wat are your opinions?
maybe swapoing brand every time? i feel since being on creatine i feel lighter but i weeght the same?weird :strong:

[gmanea]

It certainly does not have anything to do with brands. Some argue that the body might stop making its own creatine if supplemented for too long a time.

I'm starting again on creatine now but not planning to load or cycle it, just taking 5g per day everyday. There is heaps of information on these forums about creatine, try doing some searches buddy.

[dasher]

ummm ive been using creatine for about 3 mtnhs. will it matter if i keep going? aparently creatin just add water to ure muscles?wats wit that

[gmanea]

Creatine helps with water retention in the muscles yes, to keep them more pumped.
It also helps you have a more intense workout and therefore assist in building muscle faster. To get the full lowdown read the following thread:
http://www.wannabebigforums.com/showthread.php?t=22690

[dasher]

cheers thanks alot

[dasher]

is there any foods not to take coz on this link it sais if u pay for this thing it will tell u wat to take with it?? and most peopel dont get wat they should coz they take it wrong? what dont u take or how do u take it

[dasher]

if i get of creatine will i be lifting the same weights? and poeople say u wil be bursting with energy?? i dont think so

[gmanea]

Well most say it is best not to take creatine with a citric drink (such as OJ), but I don't think that is too valid because the stomach has high acidity levels anyway (but this sort of thing could start all sorts of arguments lol).

I think the simplest way to take it (and the way I do) is to simply open your mouth and tip 5g into it and then wash down with a mouthful of water... no problems.


btw, mate... not trying to pick on you or anything but do you think you could just work a tiny bit on your spelling and punctuation. It doesn't need to be perfect but nearly half the words in your posts are mispelt and the grammar has made it sore on the eyes to read :)

[dasher]

do u mix it with water? i do

[gmanea]

do u mix it with water? i do

As I said above:

I think the simplest way to take it (and the way I do) is to simply open your mouth and tip 5g into it and then wash down with a mouthful of water... no problems.

[dasher]

so u dont mix the creatine first?

[dasher]

i meen u dnt put it in a glass and mix it with waterthen drink it

[gmanea]

No I don't put it in a glass, I have a 5g spoon with the creatine and put a level spoon into my mouth and wash it down with water. I normally follow that with my post workout protein shake.

[EviscerationX]

You could mix your creatine with some carbs to help the creatine uptake into your muscles (if the creatine you're taking doesn't already have carbs, that is). I take CellTech cuz it has Creatine Monohydrate as well as carbs, and some acids to prevent stomach indigestion. Whatever works best for you, you should do THAT...

The cycling thing can become quite annoying at times, but they're coming out with Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL in a few months that you supposedly NEVER have to cycle off. Which, if true, would be a VERY good thing.

[geoffgarcia]

Evisc, how could it prevent having to cycle?
does it somehow allow your body to retain more or something?

[crazedwombat]

Since we're on creatine, I workout 3-4 times a week throwing in weights and cardio, but on my off days, should i use creatine? I'm assuming so, but i dont need the extra energy on my days off. so should it be only the days i work out or what?

[EviscerationX]

Evisc, how could it prevent having to cycle?
does it somehow allow your body to retain more or something?Yeah, it's probably something like that. It's not your traditional Creatine. I've been looking forward to this stuff for a while. I can't wait to try it.

"Creatine ethyl ester hcl (hydrochloride) is an extremely water soluble form of creatine resulting in enhanced absorption, bioavailability, and stability." Basically meaning hardcore creatine uptake...

It's supposedly gonna be the next big thing in Creatine supplementation...I guess. I just know that you don't have to cycle it off.

[gmanea]

You could mix your creatine with some carbs to help the creatine uptake into your muscles (if the creatine you're taking doesn't already have carbs, that is). I take CellTech cuz it has Creatine Monohydrate as well as carbs, and some acids to prevent stomach indigestion. Whatever works best for you, you should do THAT...

The cycling thing can become quite annoying at times, but they're coming out with Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL in a few months that you supposedly NEVER have to cycle off. Which, if true, would be a VERY good thing.

Well you should be taking simple carbs (dextrose and maltidextrose) in your post workout shake anyhow, about 3X the amount of protein you have in that shake. So you might as well be having creatine monohydrate rather than wasting your money on these 'formulas'.

[EviscerationX]

It's like $20 for a month supply...that's good enough for me. It's 45g of carbs to 5g of Creatine Monohydrate. GNC charges like $35+ for the same thing, which is why buying online is the best way to go...

[dasher]

so would it matter if i mix it with water instead of chucking it in my mouth then washing it down?

[gmanea]

no, it wouldn't matter too much.
I just do it because I know im getting 5g and not wasting any, and its quick and easy.

[geoffgarcia]

It's like $20 for a month supply...that's good enough for me. It's 45g of carbs to 5g of Creatine Monohydrate. GNC charges like $35+ for the same thing, which is why buying online is the best way to go...

500g, 100 servings creatine monohydrate (http://supplementdirect.com/?content=52&product_id=10807&PHPSESSID=073546faec353cefd2e2ecb05b31d9d1) = 9.99$ = <3.33$ per month
11lbs, 100 servings dextrose (http://supplementdirect.com/?content=52&product_id=10807&PHPSESSID=073546faec353cefd2e2ecb05b31d9d1) = 10.00$ = <3.33$ per month
Total <6.66$ per month
vs Cell Tech ~20$ per month
vs GNC ~35$ per month


you should take simple carbs post workout anyway.
So you might as well be use plain creatine monohydrate rather than wasting your money on these 'formulas', and dose with seperate dextrose on off days
teh truth

[restless]

The cycling thing can become quite annoying at times, but they're coming out with Creatine Ethyl Ester HCL in a few months that you supposedly NEVER have to cycle off. Which, if true, would be a VERY good thing.


Why do you think there's a need to cycle creatine?

[GMCtrk]

Why do you think there's a need to cycle creatine?

simply for precautionary reasons

[restless]

simply for precautionary reasons

Please be more specific. I hope you're not about to tell me about the huge load creatine places in the kidneys or something like that.

Creatine supplementation has been shown to be safe for extended periods of time (up to 4 years straight, if memory doesn't fail me) by peer reviewed research. What exactly are your concerns?

Since the poster I quoted is using that overpriced junk by muscle tech I understand the need for some interruptions as it can be pretty hard on your wallet, other than that, I see no reason.

[GMCtrk]

Please be more specific. I hope you're not about to tell me about the huge load creatine places in the kidneys or something like that.

Creatine supplementation has been shown to be safe for extended periods of time (up to 4 years straight, if memory doesn't fail me) by peer reviewed research. What exactly are your concerns?

Since the poster I quoted is using that overpriced junk by muscle tech I understand the need for some interruptions as it can be pretty hard on your wallet, other than that, I see no reason.

I don't think this is rocket science. When you are putting more solutes in your body, you are putting more stress on your kidneys, whether it is creatine or any other substance. Now besides the fact that you are stressing the kidneys more, you are also producing creatinine which is a highly toxic substance in the body. THe body's way of fighting this is to retain more water, this is why water retention is part of taking creatine. So obviously too much of this creatinine in the body can be dangerous.

However, if you stay adequately hydrated, everything should be well. Until I see some solid research later on down the road (brings time into the equation) I will cycle just to be a tad safer.

[gmanea]

the human way of evolving into a camel

[restless]

I don't think this is rocket science. When you are putting more solutes in your body, you are putting more stress on your kidneys, whether it is creatine or any other substance.

What do you mean with solute?


Now besides the fact that you are stressing the kidneys more, you are also producing creatinine which is a highly toxic substance in the body.

ummmm, creatinine is a normal by-product of creatine metabolism that is used as a marker to effectively evaluate kidney function. Can you show some proof it is a "highly toxic substance "?

THe body's way of fighting this is to retain more water, this is why water retention is part of taking creatine. So obviously too much of this creatinine in the body can be dangerous.


It's more like you obviously need to learn a bit on this.....

However, if you stay adequately hydrated, everything should be well. Until I see some solid research later on down the road (brings time into the equation) I will cycle just to be a tad safer.



You haven't seen any research because you probably didn't bother to look at pubmed.

Since you seem to be a nice guy, even if a tad missinformed, here are some for you:




Effects of long-term creatine supplementation on liver and kidney functions in American college football players.

Mayhew DL, Mayhew JL, Ware JS.

Exercise Science Program, Truman State University, Kirksville, MO 63501, USA.

The purpose of this study was to determine the effect of long-term Cr supplementation on blood parameters reflecting liver and kidney function. Twenty-three members of an NCAA Division II American football team (ages = 19-24 years) with at least 2 years of strength training experience were divided into a Cr monohydrate group (CrM, n = 10) in which they voluntarily and spontaneously ingested creatine, and a control group (n = 13) in which they took no supplements. Individuals in the CrM group averaged regular daily consumption of 5 to 20 g (mean SD = 13.9 5.8 g) for 0.25 to 5.6 years (2.9 1.8 years). Venous blood analysis for serum albumin, alkaline phosphatase, alanine aminotransferase, aspartate aminotransferase, bilirubin, urea, and creatinine produced no significant differences between groups. Creatinine clearance was estimated from serum creatinine and was not significantly different between groups. Within the CrM group, correlations between all blood parameters and either daily dosage or duration of supplementation were nonsignificant. Therefore, it appears that oral supplementation with CrM has no long-term detrimental effects on kidney or liver functions in highly trained college athletes in the absence of other nutritional supplements.

Adverse effects of creatine supplementation: fact or fiction?

Poortmans JR, Francaux M.

Physiological Chemistry, Higher Institute of Physical Education and Readaptation, Free University of Brussels, Bruxelles, Belgium. jrpoortm@ulb.ac.be

The consumption of oral creatine monohydrate has become increasingly common among professional and amateur athletes. Despite numerous publications on the ergogenic effects of this naturally occurring substance, there is little information on the possible adverse effects of this supplement. The objectives of this review are to identify the scientific facts and contrast them with reports in the news media, which have repeatedly emphasised the health risks of creatine supplementation and do not hesitate to draw broad conclusions from individual case reports. Exogenous creatine supplements are often consumed by athletes in amounts of up to 20 g/day for a few days, followed by 1 to 10 g/day for weeks, months and even years. Usually, consumers do not report any adverse effects, but body mass increases. There are few reports that creatine supplementation has protective effects in heart, muscle and neurological diseases. Gastrointestinal disturbances and muscle cramps have been reported occasionally in healthy individuals, but the effects are anecdotal. Liver and kidney dysfunction have also been suggested on the basis of small changes in markers of organ function and of occasional case reports, but well controlled studies on the adverse effects of exogenous creatine supplementation are almost nonexistent. We have investigated liver changes during medium term (4 weeks) creatine supplementation in young athletes. None showed any evidence of dysfunction on the basis of serum enzymes and urea production. Short term (5 days), medium term (9 weeks) and long term (up to 5 years) oral creatine supplementation has been studied in small cohorts of athletes whose kidney function was monitored by clearance methods and urine protein excretion rate. We did not find any adverse effects on renal function. The present review is not intended to reach conclusions on the effect of creatine supplementation on sport performance, but we believe that there is no evidence for deleterious effects in healthy individuals. Nevertheless, idiosyncratic effects may occur when large amounts of an exogenous substance containing an amino group are consumed, with the consequent increased load on the liver and kidneys. Regular monitoring is compulsory to avoid any abnormal reactions during oral creatine supplementation.

Dietary creatine supplementation does not affect some haematological indices, or indices of muscle damage and hepatic and renal function.

Robinson TM, Sewell DA, Casey A, Steenge G, Greenhaff PL.

School of Biomedical Sciences, University of Nottingham Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, United Kingdom.

BACKGROUND: The use of creatine (Cr) as a nutritional supplement to aid athletic performance has gained widespread popularity among athletes. However, concerns have recently been expressed over potentially harmful effects of short and long term Cr supplementation on health. METHODS: Forty eight young healthy subjects were randomly allocated to three experimental protocols aimed at elucidating any potential health risks associated with five days (20 g/day) to nine weeks (3 g/day) of Cr supplementation. Venous blood samples were collected before and after periods of Cr supplementation and were analysed for some haematological indices, and for indices of hepatic, muscular, and renal dysfunction. FINDINGS: All measured indices were well within their respective normal range at all times. Serum creatinine concentration tended to be increased the day after Cr supplementation. However, values had returned to baseline six weeks after the cessation of supplementation. These increases were probably attributable to increased creatinine production rather than renal dysfunction. No indication of impairment to the haematological indices measured, hepatic function, or muscle damage was apparent after Cr supplementation. INTERPRETATION: These data provide evidence that there are no obvious adverse effects of acute or more chronic Cr supplementation on the haematological indices measured, nor on hepatic, muscle, and renal function. Therefore there is no apparent health risk associated with Cr supplementation to healthy people when it is ingested in quantities that have been scientifically proven to increase muscle Cr stores.

Long-term oral creatine supplementation does not impair renal function in healthy athletes.

Poortmans JR, Francaux M.

Chimie Physiologique, Institut Superieur d'Education Physique et de Kinesitherapie, Universite Libre de Bruxelles, Brussels, Belgium. jrpoortm@ulb.ac.be

PURPOSE: Oral creatine supplementation is widely used in sportsmen and women. Side effects have been postulated, but no thorough investigations have been conducted to support these assertions. It is important to know whether long-term oral creatine supplementation has any detrimental effects on kidney function in healthy population. METHODS: Creatinine, urea, and plasma albumin clearances have been determined in oral creatine consumers (10 months to 5 yr) and in a control group. RESULTS: There were no statistical differences between the control group and the creatine consumer group for plasma contents and urine excretion rates for creatinine, urea, and albumin. Clearance of these compounds did not differ between the two groups. Thus, glomerular filtration rate, tubular reabsorption, and glomerular membrane permeability were normal in both groups. CONCLUSIONS: Neither short-term, medium-term, nor long-term oral creatine supplements induce detrimental effects on the kidney of healthy individuals.


Creatine supplementation does not affect kidney function in an animal model with pre-existing renal failure.

Taes YE, Delanghe JR, Wuyts B, van de Voorde J, Lameire NH.

Laboratory of Clinical Chemistry, Department of Internal Medicine, University Hospital Ghent, De Pintelaan 185, B-9000 Ghent, Belgium.

BACKGROUND: Creatine is widely used as an ergogenic substance among athletes. Safety of prolonged creatine intake has been questioned, based upon case reports and animal data. We investigated the effect of prolonged creatine ingestion on renal function in animals with normal kidney function or pre-existing kidney failure, respectively. METHODS: Male Wistar rats were randomly allocated to four experimental groups: (i) sham-operated, control diet; (ii) sham-operated, creatine-supplemented diet (2% w/w (0.9+/-0.2 g creatine/kg body weight/day)); (iii) two-thirds nephrectomized, control diet; and (iv) two-thirds nephrectomized, creatine supplemented diet. Glomerular filtration rate was determined using inulin and creatinine clearance, together with albumin excretion, urea clearance, muscle and serum creatine and serum cystatin C concentrations. RESULTS: In contrast to previous reports, no detrimental effects of creatine supplementation on the renal function indices were observed in two-thirds nephrectomized or sham-operated animals. No differences were observed in inulin (0.28+/-0.08 vs 0.25+/-0.08 ml/min/100 g; P=NS) or creatinine clearance rates. Serum cystatin C concentration, urinary protein excretion, and albumin and urea clearance were comparable between creatine-supplemented and control-diet fed animals in both sham-operated and two-thirds nephrectomized animals. Serum creatine and intramuscular total creatine concentrations were higher in creatine-supplemented groups (P<0.05). CONCLUSIONS:Creatine supplementation at a dosage of 2% w/w for 4 weeks does not impair kidney function in animals with pre-existing renal failure or in control animals.

[geoffgarcia]

pwnd!!!

[jAy_Dub]

Nice post restless, that changed my thoughts on cycling

[migs]

Will prolonged creatine supplementation cripple the body from synthesizing its own ?

[Holto]

no

your heart would stop beating if you ran out of creatine

but I'm sure you knew that...

there are studies on creatine lasting 22 months - 10 years

if the body dosen't lose the ability to synthesize creatine after 22 months of continuous usage why would it stop after 30 or 60 or 90 months ?

[Deathwish]

500g, 100 servings creatine monohydrate (http://supplementdirect.com/?content=52&product_id=10807&PHPSESSID=073546faec353cefd2e2ecb05b31d9d1) = 9.99$ = <3.33$ per month
11lbs, 100 servings dextrose (http://supplementdirect.com/?content=52&product_id=10807&PHPSESSID=073546faec353cefd2e2ecb05b31d9d1) = 10.00$ = <3.33$ per month
Total <6.66$ per month
vs Cell Tech ~20$ per month
vs GNC ~35$ per month

Where do you get Cell Tech for $20 a month(which I assume is 30 servings)?