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View Full Version : why can't i drop my body fat?



waynis
09-09-2004, 05:08 PM
I cant figure it out. I been at 14% body fat for a long time. I was doing 3 days of cardio a week at 30 minutes per day. I was doing resistance training the the other 3.

my diet is

breakfast- oatmeal, 1 whole egg, 2 egg whites

lunch- whole wheat bread sanwhich- 99% lean turkey with mayonaise, tomato and lettuce, stonyfield organic fat free yogurt, snyder organice oat pretzels

post-workout- 46gram protien shake and a banana

after workout meal- bowl of brown rice wit vegetables with tablespoon of canola oil- protien.. chicken, fish , or 96% lean beef

dinner- vegetables and protien, chicken, fish, or beef (lean)

before bed- cottage cheese

good fats threwout the day- flax.. fish. borage.. im intaking somewhere around 30grams of omegas

im taking in somewhere of 40 grams of fiber a day

i take a lot of vitamins- c, a, b complex, e, calcium, magnesium,zinc, ext...

so i been strict on this diet for a couple months now.. cant drop the body fat!

here's the only thing i can think of.. I occasionaly drink alcohol on the weekends. usually no more then 6 lite beers. could this possibly be affecting my results that much!!!! or do i have a very slow metabolism.. do i need to bump up my cardio.. or am i somehow storing fat? any suggestions? thanks

ryuage
09-09-2004, 05:11 PM
eat less or workout more.

waynis
09-09-2004, 05:29 PM
if i eat any less I wont have any energy at all. I'am 600 calories under the amount i should be intaking in a day. maybe i just neeed to up my cardio...damn..one friend went from 12% body fat to 9% body fat just by working out(no cardio) and eating a little better. But he eats worse then i do and is not nearly as strict.. what gives? I guess we are all diffrent.

Shadowless
09-09-2004, 05:35 PM
I work cut the beer and do more cardio. Running mostly. Perhaps sit in the sauna or steam room afterwards.

Slim Schaedle
09-09-2004, 05:37 PM
I dropped BF by going from moderate carb diet to higher carb with lower fat....without cardio. I wasn't trying to cut, but it certainly happened. Maybe your body will respond to something different than the low-carb/moderate fat diet.

waynis
09-09-2004, 06:14 PM
I dropped BF by going from moderate carb diet to higher carb with lower fat....without cardio. I wasn't trying to cut, but it certainly happened. Maybe your body will respond to something different than the low-carb/moderate fat diet.

my carbs are relatively high.. i just avoid carbs at night.. if i have any its vegetables. If i lower my fat too much i feel brain dead.

sitting in the sauna would only get rid of water weight.

I just started running again.. I was doing the eliptical for a little while cause my knees started to hurt from running. I been doing exercises to strengthen support around my knees. They feel better so im running again. I think im going to start 40 minute runs 3 times a week. see what happens. I dont won't to do too much cardio where it affects my lean body mass gains.

RichLockyer
09-10-2004, 12:06 AM
sitting in the sauna would only get rid of water weight.

Short term, that is correct, but now look at the body's response to environmental temperature.

When it is cold, the body's response is to add more insulation. This is one reason that swimming, while a great cardio workout, is not a good cutting workout. Look at Olympians... the runners/sprinters are CUT. The swimmers, while solid, are not as well defined.

Ditto for higher temperatures... if the body does not need insulation, it will cut back on fat deposits.

The sauna or hot tub aren't going to "melt fat away", but there is some decent science behind the idea.

sublime99
09-10-2004, 08:01 AM
Use fitday to exactly track what you are eating, it sound like you are just winging it, also raise you cals a bit you will only loose around 2 lbs a week and when you go sub 12% it gets really tedious.

galileo
09-10-2004, 09:03 AM
Might I suggest it's time to take a cyclic approach to your diet? Here are some search terms that may be of use:

refeeds
leptin
cycling
lyle mcdonald
UD2.0
carb cycling
ckd
tkd
ketogenic


Search around, read Lyle's interviews on Wannabebig.com, check out the articles about leptin on AvantLabs.com and get moving with a new plan.

The jist
There are various approaches to a cyclic diet. Some have low carbs (moderate fat) for a while, then a period of very high carbs (low fat). Some cycle carbs low, none, high. Some go extremely low calories for a brief period followed by extremely high, then maintenance for a few days (ala UD2). Although there are various approaches, all have science behind them and you will definitely be able to find one that matches your needs.

In my opinion, which may suck but some people believe me, here is how I rank some of these common diets. FWIW, I've tried them all.

UD2.0 - Lyle McDonald (bodyrecomposition.com)
I'd consider this the most effective, yet most difficult to follow. There is a strict training program and some people just can't handle the low calories (50% maintenance for 3 days).

Carb Cycling - Twin Peaks (mindandmuscle.net)
I'm currently doing this as an alternative to UD2, because it allows me to customize my workout schedule slightly better. I've found it to be effective, yet it is not as fast as UD2.0. This diet, out of all of them, feels the least like a real diet due to the frequently changing intakes.

Isocaloric with Periodic Refeed (common)
This diet works and I used it for a long time. In fact, the first time I cut I had some great successes with this diet. However, the refeeds are often difficult to control (you must control them!) and it is easier to justify cheating when on a less strict diet. I dropped about 15lbs on this over a few months (no cardio).

Ketogenic Diets
Some people love'm, some people hate'm. In general, I am not really a ketogenic diet guy. However, with all this new Atkin's Approved bull****, I imagine this diet has become far easier than the days I spent eating butter garlic wings and chicken smothered in mayo every single day. It's difficult to get enough fat on this diet to live, as you're aiming for a mild deficit which can mean around 150g of fat, which you want to get a lot of in a quality oil (olive, minor fish oil) and nuts (walnuts, almonds, etc). The weekend refeeds that occur on a CKD hold the same problems as the isocaloric diet, difficult to manage. Take a week of eating practically no carbs then give yourself a bagel and all of a sudden you ate 3 large pizzas and a half-gallon of ice cream.


Do your homework! There are pros and cons to all diets and you need to figure out which one fits your lifestyle the best. Good luck and you can visit my journal or pm me if you need more information.

waynis
09-10-2004, 10:58 AM
thanks a lot galileo.. I know the atkins is bull****.. yeah you will drop weight but you lose LBM and have no energy. :rolleyes: I think im starting to realize dieting might be like working out. YOU need to change your routine every few weeks to see big results. I'll have to see what works best for me cause i'am not gifted with a fast metabolism even with a strict diet. I busted my hand and havent lifted the whole week and might be out part of next week. I was thinking i could do cardio every day? I know im going to lose Lean body mass but im already losing it not lifting anyway. I think i needed a rest anyway. what do you think? lots of cardio since i cant lift?

galileo
09-10-2004, 11:23 AM
thanks a lot galileo.. I know the atkins is bull****.. yeah you will drop weight but you lose LBM and have no energy. :rolleyes: I think im starting to realize dieting might be like working out. YOU need to change your routine every few weeks to see big results. I'll have to see what works best for me cause i'am not gifted with a fast metabolism even with a strict diet. I busted my hand and havent lifted the whole week and might be out part of next week. I was thinking i could do cardio every day? I know im going to lose Lean body mass but im already losing it not lifting anyway. I think i needed a rest anyway. what do you think? lots of cardio since i cant lift?

No problem.

The main problem with Atkins would be the lack of firm requirements. The premise of a (conscious) ketogenic diet has been around for about a century, yet when Atkins brought it to the mainstream, it has been totally bastardized. If you get enough fat to meet your caloric needs for the day, you may be surprised to find that you do have ample energy, provided you're keeping yourself in ketosis. Some people respond better than others though, I must add.

No need to change routines every few weeks in any case. I believe 8 weeks is a minimum to adapt for training and for diet, you just need to be cycling in the short term. Not necessarily a different diet every few weeks.

You won't lose mass over the course of 2 weeks by not working out. If you eat ample protein and keep your calories at maintenance, you should rebound very easily. You'll lose strength, but that is from synaptic defacilitation, not (necessarily) muscle loss.

If I were you, I'd continue to use machines and workout my lower body. Forget the cardio until you're recovered, then attack with some strategy based on the information I've given you.

BulkMeUp
09-10-2004, 11:30 AM
Use fitday to exactly track what you are eating, it sound like you are just winging it,
I agree. However if diet is in order, then i would investigate galileo recommendations, esp refeeds coz it could be that you need one.

waynis
09-10-2004, 04:32 PM
what do u mean by i'am winging my diet? It's not strict enough or something? It's basically close to a body builders diet but maybe it's not for me. What are refeeds? thanks

BulkMeUp
09-10-2004, 04:54 PM
If you feel that your diet is in order, then consider other factors. Cant comment definately on your diet as need to know your stats and macros.

Refeeds (http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=25250)

waynis
09-11-2004, 11:58 AM
see also i have a problem with low blood sugar(hypoglycemia) I cannot have that much of a insulin spike.. this is why i eat plenty of whole wheat products and very little sugar. any suggestions?

Max-Mex
09-11-2004, 06:20 PM
Switch the whole wheat products with green veggies. Broccoli, spinach, romaine lettuce. You feel full longer and you shouldn't get that much of a spike because those veggies take longer to digest, especially broccoli. To add to that, make sure they are raw or lightly cooked.

waynis
09-11-2004, 06:38 PM
hmm...maybe i should try chicken, egg, salads for lunch more often and try to avoid the bread. if i use vegtables as my main source of carbs is there any harm in that? any energy concerns?

RichLockyer
09-11-2004, 08:27 PM
hmm...maybe i should try chicken, egg, salads for lunch more often and try to avoid the bread. if i use vegtables as my main source of carbs is there any harm in that? any energy concerns?
You'd do fine limiting the starchy carbs to the morning... get onto the fibrous carbs after mid-day. That has worked well for me. Basically, a turkey sandwich for breakfast and lunch is the routine, though weekends may bring a potato for lunch. No bread/potato after lunch.

BulkMeUp
09-11-2004, 08:30 PM
hmm...maybe i should try chicken, egg, salads for lunch more often and try to avoid the bread. if i use vegtables as my main source of carbs is there any harm in that? any energy concerns?
Volume of carbs from most veggies is quite low compared to grain sources.

waynis
09-11-2004, 08:39 PM
yeah it is.. The only thing i changed in the last week was limiting my complex carbs after 3 pm. I read it in a mag and decided to try it. basically im getting carbs from oatmeal-breakfast, wheat bread-lunch- brown rice or artichoke noodles around 3 pm... After 3 pm i've been doing sweet potatoes, veggie chips, or diffrent types of vegetables as my carbs. either quick digesting carbs or low glycemic index carbs.

I'am yet to decide which new diet im going to start or just pound out more cardio. I cut my hand and i should be getting the stitches out in a couple days and hopefully it wont be too long till i can lift again. I was thinking intense training. 40 minutes of cardio 3 times a week with resistance training 6 days a week of some sort. example.. back, bi's monday, abs, lower back , cardio tuesday, ext. With all this rest i've been having im gonnna be pumped and energized when i start lifting again and should see good results hopefully. Before I hurt my hand i think i basically hit a plateau and was getting un motivated. Now I cant wait to go to the gym being stuck in the house for a week so far.

RichLockyer
09-11-2004, 09:29 PM
40 minutes of cardio 3 times a week with resistance training 6 days a week of some sort.
Reverse that... and only do half the cardio on resistance days. I do 30 minutes on resistance days and 60-70 on non.

Resistance training in and of itself is a low heart rate, fat burning workout, but it doesn't elevate the metabolism to the same degree as higher intensity cardio, except in that it builds muscle mass (which does burn fat while resting).

Doing cardio prior to resistance training will blast your glycogen stores and you will not be at 100% for lifting. Attempting to do a full 40-60 minute cardio session immediately following resistance training will totally exhaust you. Best to split by 8 hours if possible, but if not, the shorter cardio session FOLLOWING resistance training is fine.

Remember... you don't build muscle at the gym. You tear down muscle at the gym. You build muscle when resting on the off days. That's the whole theory behind overtraining problems.

shootermcgavin7
09-11-2004, 10:59 PM
galileo had a very good post.

I've never used the UD 2.0 but have heard very good things from it.

I used to use a CKD to cut but I've switched to a high-protein diet with some carbs (60-90g) from veggies (no starches) with 1 or 2 cheat days mixed in and have seen results that were just as good as CKD without the absolute ****ty feeling/energy drop that you get from a no-carb diet.

GMCtrk
09-12-2004, 12:52 AM
Reverse that... and only do half the cardio on resistance days. I do 30 minutes on resistance days and 60-70 on non.

Resistance training in and of itself is a low heart rate, fat burning workout, but it doesn't elevate the metabolism to the same degree as higher intensity cardio, except in that it builds muscle mass (which does burn fat while resting).

Doing cardio prior to resistance training will blast your glycogen stores and you will not be at 100% for lifting. Attempting to do a full 40-60 minute cardio session immediately following resistance training will totally exhaust you. Best to split by 8 hours if possible, but if not, the shorter cardio session FOLLOWING resistance training is fine.

Remember... you don't build muscle at the gym. You tear down muscle at the gym. You build muscle when resting on the off days. That's the whole theory behind overtraining problems.

Personally, I find doing anything more than 10 minutes of cadio following a lifting session as almost oxymoron. You are burning away the energy that your body needs to build itself with! This is why it's hard for me to figure out the appropriate amt of cardio. Lukily, I am blessed with good genetics.

RichLockyer
09-12-2004, 02:03 AM
Personally, I find doing anything more than 10 minutes of cadio following a lifting session as almost oxymoron. You are burning away the energy that your body needs to build itself with! This is why it's hard for me to figure out the appropriate amt of cardio. Lukily, I am blessed with good genetics.
At 10 minutes, you're not getting any benefit from the cardio... 20-30 would be the minimum.
Like I said... it's best to have a break between them, but the post-workout cardio has worked just fine for me. Remember... he's talking about getting the fat level under control. That needs to be done before any serious bulking attempts can be fruitful. For this, development of the glutes and quads are the most effective resistance training, and cardio is going to burn that fat.

Now keep in mind that I'm not suggesting HIIT after weights... I'm hitting the treadmill at 4-4.5mph and holding my heart rate in the 120-130 range. I'm not blowing out a lot of energy here. That is saved for the non-resistance days when I do an hour of a cycle... 5 minutes at 4mph, 5 minutes at 7. 5 minute warmup at 3.5mph and 10 minute cooldown ramping from 4mph down to 2 (so the total workout time is 75 minutes give or take).

waynis
09-12-2004, 11:15 AM
no i was planning on doing the cardio after the resistance training. but only do abs or a muscle that does not work against my cardio output

AstronautJones
09-13-2004, 02:10 AM
When it is cold, the body's response is to add more insulation. This is one reason that swimming, while a great cardio workout, is not a good cutting workout. Look at Olympians... the runners/sprinters are CUT. The swimmers, while solid, are not as well defined.

I'm curious, how warm/cold do the temperatures have to be for these changes to occur? The pools that Olympians swim in are usually kept around 80 degrees!

RichLockyer
09-13-2004, 09:38 AM
I'm curious, how warm/cold do the temperatures have to be for these changes to occur? The pools that Olympians swim in are usually kept around 80 degrees!
It depends on the time you spend in the water. I've forgotten how much faster water draws heat from your body as compared to air (I think it's 20x), but IIRC, it's at about 90-92 degrees that your body loses the ability to keep up with the heat loss, regardless of activity level, and you will eventually suffer hypothermia.

On scuba vacations, wearing a full 3mm suit, I've gotten cold by the 4th day/7th dive, with each dive being about an hour, in 82 degree water.

AstronautJones
09-13-2004, 03:44 PM
Very interesting. I had no idea.