The Never Ending Cycle?

[Maki Riddington]

What do you guys think about this article?

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=460291

[Teh BDK]

Hm.

I didn't see any indication on what they think 'long term' is. Are they talking six months or three years? I also don't know if doing nothing but orals for extended periods of time is a good idea, especially since most of the time you keep your Dbol, Halo, and Anadrol cycles from 4-8 weeks at the most.

I don't know. As soon as I saw the word 'T-Nation' I immediately thought it'd be full of ****.

[Teufelhund]

At the very end they said "4-AD, or 4-AD-EC, definitely seems to be the safest for long-term usage (possibly up to 16 weeks at a time)." then take two weeks off and start again. That was about the only cycle length related info I could find.

I guess I just didn't feel like any new info was really being presented. And I'm pretty sure 16-week prohormone cycles was not what most people were thinking when they read the title of the article, lol.

[tony touch]

garbage...i thought the article was completely useless.

winstrol a good option for long-term use? lol sorry brotha.

the fact that he even mentioned halo as part of a long-term cycle is hysterical.

unless i totally read it wrong...i think its useless

[restless]

T-mag material......

[BCC]

Total garbage. What was the point of writing that article? Stating that winstrol, dbol, and halo are great for long term usage, and then saying you shouldn't use them for long periods of time due to liver toxicity?

[Severed Ties]

I think you have a better chance of achieving enlightenment from taking a large bowel movement than learning something from that article.

That article is pure T-fag marketing.

Winstrol at 6mg/day lowers HDL by 33% in healthy male athletes, it's probably the single worst steroid for ones health so the idea of recommending it for long term use is not only idiotic but dangerous and irresponsible.

Halotestin is another idiotic recommendation for long term use. Halotestin is the harshest on the liver because Halo incorporates a combination of features including a 17-a methyl group, a 9-a fluorine, and a 11-OH group. If you look at Halo’s structure you can easily find that it has 17A methyl(17alpha alkylated) which is absolutely toxic as with all other 17aa steroids. Halo also contains 9alpha fluorine (as Fluorine is used to protect substances from being broken down) this version of Fluorine is very toxic. Lastly Halotestin is the 11-Hydroxyl Group which is must be enzymatically reduced to the corresponding 11-hydroxy derivative before they are biologically active. This reaction is carried out by a distinct 11-hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase isozyme in the liver that operates in a reductive mode this process by it self is toxic not just to the liver but for the renal function as well.

4-AD could be used for extended cycles by itself it's conversion to testosterone and then to estrogen is going to cause similar LH inhibition. The idea that you can use androgens and still maintain full HTPA function is false. The inhibition to testosterone would probably be similar to what is seen with dianabol. However since 4-AD will convert to Testosterone total T levels would probably stay about the same.

If I had to hypothesize what the safest long term cycle would be I'd say

600-1000mg/week of testosterone
.25mg/arimidex EOD
10mg nolvadex ED
HCG 500 iu's 2x week

Long term being 6 months to 1 year of continuous use.

ST

[BCC]

ST, do you think the arimidex being used for that long would be quite detrimental to one's lipid profile, or would the nolva help balance it out being that it's only .25 eod?

[Hatred]

Ok it is about time a really good thread was posted. <watches eagerly waiting to learn>

[Severed Ties]

Chase I included nolva to help balance any effect arimidex might have on cholesterol.
I don't think at that dose there would be much of an effect since aromatase inhibtors only seem to effect blood lipids when estrogen drops to low. Dr. John of allthingsmale.com has observed that at .25mg EOD estrogen levels are usually on the higher end of the normal range in his HRT patients. So while I don't think it would be much a problem since we're talking long term I prefer to be cautious.

ST

[BCC]

Excellent. That's what I've been doing with my nolvadex and arimidex although I was only theorizing. I'll find out for sure when I have my bloodwork done Monday.

[Severed Ties]

Awesome post up the vitals when you get your blood work back.

ST

[tony touch]

i wouldnt use anti-es for extended periods of time except low low dose nolva but thats just me...i ****ing hate anti-es.

long term? test and eq at low doses...ramp up for gaining periods...throw whatever u want in. i would just coast at HRT dosages in between heavy periods.

[Teh BDK]

Hey ST, what would you suggest (chemically) to do in terms of lipid control if nolva makes you absolutely bat**** loco?
Actually...PM me.