PDA

View Full Version : UD2: carb load day



JSully
10-19-2004, 12:35 AM
Alright, I'll be putting my carb load together for this PSMF diet I'm on and I'm basing it off of the UD2 diet. I'll do the tension workout before the beginning of carb load on thursday, then the carb load friday, and a power workout saturday, then it's back to PSMF for 12-14 days. Anyways, my LBM is around 220 and 7-8x220 = 1540-1760grams for carbs. That's doable, also, my protein will be approl 220-230. Now, as far as fat, Lyle McDonald says to keep the fat low for better results. I dunno if that means keep the same ratio or >50g or what. What are all of your feelings. I'd like to enjoy a little food and make some good tasting food: rice+kidney beans+ground beef w/taco seasoning (tastes wonderful) as well as rice+tuna+mayo, a couple peanut butter & jelly sandwiches and a couple other meals other than my shakes.

Basically my main question is, would it be alright to keep my fat around the 100-120g range?

I took the "in-between" of each of those to figure out the ratio's and here it is. 225g protein/1650g carb/110g fat = 900cal protein / 6600cal carb / 990cal fat = 8490 calorries.

protein = 10.6%... carb = 77.7%...fat = 11.6%

What do you think?

Vido
10-19-2004, 12:48 AM
That's fine. It's "better" as far as fat loss goes to keep your fat intake low on the carb-up days, but it's also the only day you can eat things that actually taste good, so don't sweat it. Trust me, your proposed diet contains A LOT less fat than some of my refeeds did, and I still did ok.

JSully
10-19-2004, 08:12 AM
Thanks vido, so you think that kind of ratio there is good for continuing fat loss? I don't want to wake up in the morning and look all soft and bloated. LOL. When ppl say keep your fat low I have no clue what that is. IMO compared to how I used to eat that IS low. Any other opinions on the subject?

Maybe I should up the protein a little to make it an even 10/80/10 pcf ratio, or lower the fat?

I'm lost, oh well, my proposed is still clean. I'm getting all that fat fromt he peanut butter, ground beef, and a scoop of mayo. And I'll probably have spaghetti that night too and the sauce has a decent amt.

More answers, more opinions please :help:

Vido
10-19-2004, 11:38 AM
When ppl say keep your fat low I have no clue what that is.

Like I said, your proposed diet is fine. You can carbload on dounts and pizza if you want and still continue losing fat, so it's not the end of the world. An OPTIMAL carbload, however, will just use the trace fats from the carb and protein products, and those alone should be greater than 50g...one might also throw in some fish oil, but no other specific fatty foods.

sixdoubleo
10-23-2004, 02:35 PM
LittleJake...

I have been doing what you propose... a 2-week PSMF w/UD2-style carb load. Working well. I had a spell where I decided to come off of it (life got in the way)...anyway here is a sample carb load I did. It went very clean. The following week I was back down to pre-CL weight pretty easily.

Carb Load Day (http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=sixdoubleo&Year=2004&Month=8&Day=25)

Although you're quite a bit higher LBM than me (I'm around 185-190lb LBM, 230lbs BW) you can tweak the numbers. Basically try to keep fat under 15% of total calories for the CL day.

Anyway, I'll answer what I can. I'm certainly no "expert" though....experimenting myself as it is.

JSully
10-23-2004, 02:57 PM
LittleJake...

I have been doing what you propose... a 2-week PSMF w/UD2-style carb load. Working well. I had a spell where I decided to come off of it (life got in the way)...anyway here is a sample carb load I did. It went very clean. The following week I was back down to pre-CL weight pretty easily.

Carb Load Day (http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=sixdoubleo&Year=2004&Month=8&Day=25)

Although you're quite a bit higher LBM than me (I'm around 185-190lb LBM, 230lbs BW) you can tweak the numbers. Basically try to keep fat under 15% of total calories for the CL day.

Anyway, I'll answer what I can. I'm certainly no "expert" though....experimenting myself as it is.

That's REALLY helpful man, I'm glad. LOL, I can actually have 125g fat and it'll still be only 14% of total calories. I take in close to 1500g in carbs that day, and about 220g protein-at least, normally I get the spillover of the protein in alot of the carbs I eat and it gets to around 250g which is allowable. So, thanks alot man. I'll hafta remember that 15% rule. Is your weight going down as fast as mine? (check my journal: jakes.wannabecut.journal) Also, have you lost alot of strength? I haven't lost much strength but it seems that I'll be doing easy reps then all of a sudden it's stuck on me and I'm completely fatigued and can't move anything. WTF is that ?!?!?

sixdoubleo
10-23-2004, 04:42 PM
That's REALLY helpful man, I'm glad. LOL, I can actually have 125g fat and it'll still be only 14% of total calories. I take in close to 1500g in carbs that day, and about 220g protein-at least, normally I get the spillover of the protein in alot of the carbs I eat and it gets to around 250g which is allowable. So, thanks alot man. I'll hafta remember that 15% rule. Is your weight going down as fast as mine? (check my journal: jakes.wannabecut.journal) Also, have you lost alot of strength? I haven't lost much strength but it seems that I'll be doing easy reps then all of a sudden it's stuck on me and I'm completely fatigued and can't move anything. WTF is that ?!?!?

No problem. The 15% is Lyle's number from UD2...I don't know that it's a hard and fast rule...but just like anything else probably a good guide. As for the protein spillover, I agree. If you look at that day's diet, I didn't specifically eat any protein foods...(other than egg whites)

My weight drops pretty quick doing this....yes. Initially I went from 255lbs to 225lbs in one month. I've attached a before/after comparison of what I did in one month on PSMF. In the left I was about 28% BF. In the right I was about 18% BF.

After that I just maintained for about a month or so. Just this past week I started another PSMF cycle and my weight has literally plummeted. I was 232.4lbs on Monday and am 220.4lbs today (Saturday). Granted most is water, but overall I have estimated I get a .6-.8lb fat loss per day on PSMF.

As for strength, I'm still doing good in all my lifts. Squat feels harder now, but I think it's because I have less overall body mass to spread the weight of the bar over....if that makes sense. Anyway, I'm at about 17% right now and am shooting for low teens at which time I"m going to bulk back up.

sixdoubleo
10-23-2004, 04:56 PM
Also, have you lost alot of strength? I haven't lost much strength but it seems that I'll be doing easy reps then all of a sudden it's stuck on me and I'm completely fatigued and can't move anything. WTF is that ?!?!?

By the way, the fatigue you describe is probably just as a result of doing a keto diet....not necessarily a strength loss. If you do a UD2-style refeed and a power workout every two weeks, if should give you an opportunity to asess your strength and make adjustments to your diet/training to compensate.

What does your training look like DURING the PSMF? While doing the PSMF, the general consensus is to do 2-3 full-body workouts in the 6-8 rep range each week.

My 2-week cycle looks like this (diet type in paranthesis):

Monday: (Zone 80% of maintenance)
Tuesday: (PSMF) Depletion workout
Wednesday: (PSMF) Depletion workout
Thursday: (PSMF)
Friday: (PSMF) Full-body 6-8 rep workout
Saturday: (PSMF)
Sunday: (PSMF)
Monday: (PSMF) Full-body 6-8 rep workout
Tuesday: (PSMF)
Wednesday: (PSMF) Full-body 6-8 rep workout
Thursday: (PSMF)
Friday: (PSMF/Carb Load) Full-body UD2-style tension workout
Saturday: (Carb Load)
Sunday: (Carb Load/Zone) Full-body UD2-style power Workout

JSully
10-23-2004, 05:03 PM
Wow, that looks great man. I was around the 13-15% range in my other pics. I'll attach a little comparison here in case you haven't seen my other Pics. In the first one I was around 18-19% bf @ 267lbs and the second one I'm 143lbs @ between 13-15% (caliper). But I think my bf might have been higher than 19% in the first one. The calipers say I'm between 11.5-12.5% right now so I know I'm losing. I've only been on the PSMF for about a week now and I've dropped a total of 9lbs this past week. Every day I go, I'm either the same as the day before or 1-2 lbs less, and I'll keep on PSMF until my carb load that's on Friday. Hopefully it'll take me up around 230-235 range (probably low 230s) in which I'll still be pretty satisfied.

Menu Item Price *

Grilled CHicken Tuscan Style: 10.99

Chicken breast grilled with olive oil, garlic, sauteed mushrooms, artichoke hearts and tomatoes, with a choice of potato and fresh vegetables

That's what I just had for lunch, except I replaced the potate for more fresh veggies. Tasted EXCELLENT, and it has to be compatible. I'll neglect taking the rest of the fish oil caps today because of all the olive oil it was cooked with. I went online to try to find the exact nutrition facts on it but I can't. I figure between the sauce and steamed veggies there are probably around 15-20g carbs, and maybe another 10-15g fat. Not sure though, if anyone else has more exact numbers please let me know. They said all the taste is from spices and seasonings so lets hope so. I'm going to up the cardio today no matter what because I had that but I'd just like to be for sure on what the nutrients are. If anything I still doubt it took me out of ketosis. And if it did I'll plummet right back into it with the cardio and workout I'm doing this evening.

Anyways, out of curiousity, sixdoubleo did you're muscles fill back up the day after your carb load? I mean, did you look like sh1t the entire time you were on PSMF and then you carb loaded and ur muscles got back to regular size. I'm VERY worried they aren't gonna get back to what they were after I carb load. If they don't get back to what they were, then the last 6 months was NOTHING and a complete waste of time bulking and adding all the mass I did. Let me know man.

sixdoubleo
10-23-2004, 05:27 PM
Wow, that looks great man. I was around the 13-15% range in my other pics. I'll attach a little comparison here in case you haven't seen my other Pics. In the first one I was around 18-19% bf @ 267lbs and the second one I'm 143lbs @ between 13-15% (caliper). But I think my bf might have been higher than 19% in the first one. The calipers say I'm between 11.5-12.5% right now so I know I'm losing.

Yeah, I saw your starting pics as well. Excellent progress.



I've only been on the PSMF for about a week now and I've dropped a total of 9lbs this past week. Every day I go, I'm either the same as the day before or 1-2 lbs less, and I'll keep on PSMF until my carb load that's on Friday. Hopefully it'll take me up around 230-235 range (probably low 230s) in which I'll still be pretty satisfied.

Typical fat loss is about .6-.8lbs per day. The first week you will see daily losses of 1-3lbs, most of it water. But if you're doing everything right, you should be able to see 3-5lbs of fat lost per week. YMMV. For instance, I started on Monday at 232.4 and today I am 220.4. So 12lbs in 6 days.




Anyways, out of curiousity, sixdoubleo did you're muscles fill back up the day after your carb load? I mean, did you look like sh1t the entire time you were on PSMF and then you carb loaded and ur muscles got back to regular size. I'm VERY worried they aren't gonna get back to what they were after I carb load. If they don't get back to what they were, then the last 6 months was NOTHING and a complete waste of time bulking and adding all the mass I did. Let me know man.

Yes. You will feel like you just got released from a concentration camp while on this diet. You have no muscle glycogen. My bicep can move as much as an INCH between depleted/refilled states. See your journal. I said you'll feel great after the carb load. Just make sure to select clean carbs for the refeed and get them in every 2-3 hours and keep the fat low.

JSully
10-23-2004, 09:01 PM
My 2-week cycle looks like this (diet type in paranthesis):

Monday: (Zone 80% of maintenance)
Tuesday: (PSMF) Depletion workout
Wednesday: (PSMF) Depletion workout
Thursday: (PSMF)
Friday: (PSMF) Full-body 6-8 rep workout
Saturday: (PSMF)
Sunday: (PSMF)
Monday: (PSMF) Full-body 6-8 rep workout
Tuesday: (PSMF)
Wednesday: (PSMF) Full-body 6-8 rep workout
Thursday: (PSMF)
Friday: (PSMF/Carb Load) Full-body UD2-style tension workout
Saturday: (Carb Load)
Sunday: (Carb Load/Zone) Full-body UD2-style power Workout

My 2 week cycle is really simple.
I do Chest/Shoulders/Tris one day, then Legs/Back/Bis the next. Followed by 2 days of cardio. Basically a little 4 day mini-cycle. When I'm feeling extra fat I'll add a little cardio to the end of my workout. Sometimes I'll just skip the cardio on a workout night. I do abs on cardio nights, and sometimes calves on cardio nights as well. It's working for me so far. The thursday of the beginning of the carb load I'll do the UD2-style tension workout, then the friday carb load, then saturday I'll do the UD2-style power workout with the UD2 style diet here today as well. Sunday is back to the PSMF.

All workouts are 3 excercises per bodypart for 3 sets of 6-8 each to almost failure. If my form is slipping or I'm just burning out before I get to 6 I'll lower the weight to try to get all the reps.

I've taken a couple screenshots of how my carb load will be. Please post suggestions/critiques.

The first screenshot is for the beginning of the carb load Thursday night, and the second is the entire carb load for Friday.

Oh, and the Serious Mass is made by Optimum Nutrition. I just forgot to put ON before it. It's stats are 1250 calories, 50g protein / 252g carb / 4g fat in one serving. Serving size is 2 heaping scoops.

shootermcgavin7
10-24-2004, 08:30 AM
Jake, I like how you have WWB Forum website open on those screenshots.

JSully
10-24-2004, 02:21 PM
LOL, Thanks shooter. It's ALWAYS open!! I'm obsessed, err.. dedicated, yeah that's it, dedicated. *LOL