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Vido
10-26-2004, 06:29 PM
Well, I'm going to delve into the journal world, albeit only temporarily. I'm just going to do a brief cut here over the course of the next month, and then I should be in a good position to start my winter bulk. I'm pretty excited about getting an opportunity to actually do a bulk this winter, as I know this is really the time of year to be pushing the calorie limits, what with sweatshirts and long pants being in vogue. I usually go away for Christmas, so I'm always trying to be relatively lean at this time of year. Not this year though...muahahahhahaha

Now, why am I cutting in the first place? Pretty simple, I always recommend to people "bulk until you cannot tolerate your bodyfat level". Well...ya. I'm not trying to get down to single digits with this cut, I just want to be at a "respectable" level, knowing that I am going to gain some fat on my bulk. You may be thinking "how is this idiot planning on dropping so much body fat in such a short period of time"? Well, first off, I really don't have THAT much fat to drop. Secondly, given my lifestyle since school began in September, it shouldn't be hard to see quick results from the EXTREME changes that are about to be made. Just to give you an idea, I've probably been eating about 6K calories/day, including quite a bit of junk, as well as drinking 3-4 nights/week. I had been training only twice/week since the start of school until 2 weeks ago when I got sick. Tonight, will be my first trip back to the gym since then. Oh ya, I haven't been doing any cardio either :redface:.

Today I will do a full body workout, focusing on the core movements: squats (well hack squats actually), deads, db press, chins, and shrugs just to get back into the swing of things. I've also been eating at a relatively "normal" calorie level today:

Meal 1: 6 eggs cooked in 1tbsp olive oil, 2 tbsp ANPB, 3 fish oil caps
Meal 2: 200g turkey, 2 tbsp olive oil, veggies
Meal 3: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 1 cup oats
Workout
Meal 4: 1 scoop whey, 1 cup oats
Meal 5: 200g turkey, 2 tbsp olive oil, veggies
Meal 6: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 2 tbsp ANPB, 3 fish oil caps

That's something like 3600 calories or so. I was eating 4000-4500 on my last bulk, so it's really not that many.

Tomorrow I plan on beginning the first of the low cal days on my PSMF. Now, I called it a "double-modified" PSMF. Why? Well, if anyone remembers, I posted about my so-called "modified PSMF" in response to one of the threads in diet forum. Basically, you've got 3 days of PSMF, followed by a refeed on the 4th day, and repeated, with the reasoning behind the frequent refeeds to keep from metabolic shutdown. Now, after looking into it more, I realize that at worst, one's metabolism is going to shut down by about 30% on a very extreme low calorie diet...not really that much. Then again, I don't want to be starting my bulk at 30% less calories than I was eating before because I like eating. Therefore, 30% or not, I'm going to try to avoid metabolic shutdown as much as possible (although I may extend the low cal days to 4 or 5 or maybe even a week at some point, we'll see).

So there's the "modified", how about the "double-modified"? Well, this is simply due to the fact that I'm still in school and I have a couple of exams during this period. I don't study much for exams anyway, but I don't really want to be looking over the material or writing the exam on 1000 cals if you get my point. I will try to plan my refeeds around exams, or anything else that would require me to be somewhat alert.

The diet:
PSMF days: 1-1.5g protein/lb bodyweight, 6g fish oil
Refeed: 4-5K cals...1g protein/lb bodyweight, 6g fish oil, the rest carbs

Day 1: PSMF
Day 2: PSMF
Day 3: PSMF
Day 4: refeed
Repeat

Training:
This may change if I go longer between refeeds, but for now:

Day 1 (starting after first refeed): upper body
Day 2: cardio (probably 2 20-30 min sessions, one in the early afternoon, one at night...I don't wake up until almost noon, so...)
Day 3: cardio (same as above)
Day 4: legs (middle of the day or so after I've got some carbs back in me)

Well, that's the plan for now. I'm off to the gym.

Frozenmoses
10-26-2004, 06:46 PM
Looks like an interesting cut, Vido. I'm hoping to learn something from this. Gonna do before and after pics?

Stackattack
10-26-2004, 07:34 PM
Good luck with the cut Vido.

Manveet
10-26-2004, 08:27 PM
Sweet, you started a journal:D

Shouldn't you be aiming for a specific number of carbs during your refeed?

Vido
10-26-2004, 08:59 PM
Frozenmoses: Sorry, no pics. I've never taken pics in my life and won't be starting any time in the near future. I go purely by the mirror (not that that helps you guys much, but still)...I rarely even weigh myself, although I will be on this diet just out of curiosity.

Manveet: Assuming I stick to schedule (refeed every 4 days), I'm not going to be totally depleted. Considering it took 2 high-rep workouts and 3-5 30 min cardio sessions to get me fully depleted on UD2, I certainly don't think a regular tension/power-style workout and 4 cardio sessions will get me to that point. Regardless, as this isn't really a glycogen-depleting diet in the same sense as UD2, the refeed isn't really for glycogen replenishment (at least not primarily). The 2 main points of the refeed are 1) to give me enough energy to keep lifting heavy and hopefully not lose any strength and 2) to prevent my metabolism from slowing down.

Vido
10-26-2004, 09:06 PM
217 lbs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :eek:

That's what I weighed in tonight. I was 210 when school started a month and a half ago, and like I said I've only been haphazardly working out. Needless to say, I don't think much/any of that 7 lb gain was of the good variety. I'll weigh-in the day after every refeed to keep an accurate log of my weight loss.

I didn't feel good that workout. I'm clearly not fully recovered from my cold. Starting on the PSMF tomorrow "probably" isn't the most intelligent idea, but I'm not always known for making the right decision.

I just did a bunch of dropsets, so I could get out of there as quickly as possible.

ryuage
10-27-2004, 05:53 AM
hey fatty, good luck with the double modified psmf... hehe I did something similar carbup every 4 days worked well for me.

Vido
10-27-2004, 11:19 PM
ryuage: Thanks for the support.

Day 1:

Diet:
Meal 1: can of tuna, 3 fish oil caps
Cardio
Meal 2: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 3: can of tuna
Meal 4: 15 egg whites
Cardio
Meal 5: can of tuna
Meal 6: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3 fish oil caps

Calories: 1257 Protein: 258 g


Training:
1st cardio session: 25 minutes incline walk 15 degrees, 3.8mph
2nd cardio session: 20 minutes stepper


Thoughts:
If the diet stays this easy to stick to then I'm golden. Then again, I'd hope I wouldn't be tempted to cheat on the first day. It's rare that I'd cheat at school anyway though...it's when I go home (every few weekends) that I'm in trouble. I happen to be going home this weekend, so we'll see how well I control myself.

The cardio sessions were very easy as I didn't really push myself. I haven't been doing any cardio, so I didn't want to kill myself the first workout back. In addition, the DOMS in my legs from yesterday's 3 sets of hack squats was incredible (along with the DOMS in the rest of my body from everything else). I feel like a newbie after his first workout. I did, however, have an amazing sleep after last night's workout, and I think my cold is almost all gone.

Well, I'm happy the Sox won the World Series, but that was a pathetic effort by the Cards. Talk about a letdown after a great regular season, and decent post-season performance prior to the big dance. As I'm not really a Sox fan, I would have much preferred to see an exciting, close series as compared to that lopsided shillacking the Cards took on the chin. I'm also unsure of the rationale behind choosing Ramirez as the MVP. I would think you put a ton of guys above him, ie. Ortiz, Foulke, Lowe, etc.

JSully
10-28-2004, 12:21 AM
dry cottage cheese??? no carbs in that?

Good luck w/the cut BTW. You'll drop a good 8lbs on the PSMF in one month.

Vido
10-28-2004, 12:33 AM
dry cottage cheese??? no carbs in that?

Good luck w/the cut BTW. You'll drop a good 8lbs on the PSMF in one month.

Nutritional Info for 1 tub dry cottage cheese:
Calories: 510
Protein: 105g
Fat: 2.5g
Carbs: 11g
Sodium: 75mg
Potassium: 200mg

Thanks for the support. I really like the PSMF diet. I know I'll get to where I want to be in no time, even if I have a couple of hiccups in the diet along the way.

Vido
10-28-2004, 11:00 PM
Day 2:

Diet:
Meal 1: 15 egg whites, 3g fish oil
Cardio
Meal 2: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 3: can of tuna
Meal 4: can of tuna
Meal 5: 1/2 tub of cottage cheese, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1099 Protein: 225g


Training:
Cardio: 35 minutes incline walk 15 degrees, 3.9mph


Thoughts:
The DOMS from the workout 2 days ago is unbelievable. I feel like I got hit by a bus, especially my legs.

What I forgot about this diet (and UD2 or any other really low calorie diet) is that it's not the eating that's a problem, it's the training. Sure, I've had visions of pizza and apple pies dancing through my head (and that f#@%er that brought McDonald's into class and stunk the WHOLE room up didn't help), but for the most part, I'm really not hungry at all. In fact, I'm basically having to remind myself to eat at all, and then forcing it down.

The cardio, on the other hand, was BRUTAL. It seriously felt like it was the toughest session of my life. I never got a second wind the entire time, or if I did, it lasted about 20 seconds, before I began breathing heavier than 350lb man walking up 14 flights of stairs. From the 7th minute on I was completely light-headed. In the 23rd minute, I got a shooting pain in my shoulder that lasted on and off for the duration of the session. I had people on the bikes in front of me, and treadmills beside me, turning around to see if the guy who was panting heavily behind them was ok. I usually do a 5-minute cool down where I gradually decrease both the incline and speed until I am walking on level ground and barely even moving...this time once the clock hit the 35 minute mark, I just slammed the "off" button as fast as I possibly could, and went over and lay in the stretching area with my eyes closed for a while. Now, I'm quite aware that I'm not in top cardiovascular form, but that was a lot tougher than it should have been.

Alke
10-28-2004, 11:15 PM
omg, you got a journal....

looking forward to your posts bro!

Jasonl
10-28-2004, 11:32 PM
Good luck Vido, you seem to know your **** so I'm sure you'll hit your goals sooner rather than later.

I know how it feels to collapse after a cardio session... When I did HIIT for the first time on a quiet street in my neighborhood I was doing 30 second sprints for 15 intervals and a brisk walk back to the starting point. After that I just coulnd't walk back to my house for about 10 mins and I layed on the sidewalk like a drunk bum. :D

Vido
10-28-2004, 11:47 PM
Alke: Thanks for stopping by, input is always welcome!

Jasonl: Thanks for the encouragement! I know what you mean about HIIT, and it's not just the first time you do it. It really is a killer workout, especially sprinting (running) moreso than any other kind I find. I'm just a little perturbed that I was struggling so much with a WALK, but hey, it's over now. Hopefully tomorrow's session will go a little more smoothly.

Vido
10-29-2004, 03:09 PM
Day 3:

Diet:
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Cardio
Meal 2: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meals 3+: undetermined as of yet


Training:
Abs: nothing much, 1 long set of Swiss Ball crunches to warm-up, 3 sets reverse incline sit-ups (the name has escaped me for the moment...it's the ones where you lie on a decline bench with your feet below your head and pull your legs up), 1 set static holds with 55lb dumbbell
Cardio: 20 min stepper


Thoughts:
I think the difficulty of the cardio is a perfect negative correlation to the amount of eye candy there happens to be at the gym. (Or maybe it has to do with the length of the session, but all I know is that was easy, and wow, there was a lot of nice-looking girls there :D)

I usually do 3-5 sets of the weighted static holds for abs, but those reverse sit-ups really killed me (hadn't done them in a while). I felt at that point that I had done a sufficient job on my abs.

I'm not really sure what I'm doing for the rest of today. Being Halloween weekend, there are a TON of parties, so I'm quite tempted to go out. The diet, however, has been right on track so far, so I'm in a bit of a bind. I said this wasn't going to be an overly strict diet, but coming off on Day 3... :confused:

Frozenmoses
10-29-2004, 03:41 PM
I feel ya on the Halloween deal, Vido. There are a ton of parties going on at the beach, and I'd love to go out and drink, but I just hate what it does to me. Alcohol is teh dehbul.

Dirt
10-29-2004, 11:05 PM
If you're not drinking tonight, that's just weak.

Ğragons
10-30-2004, 01:17 AM
omg i gotta get me some of that cc..

good luck with the cut

ryuage
10-30-2004, 08:17 AM
halloween = refeed

Mystic Eric
10-30-2004, 03:58 PM
halloween = refeed

LOL that's quite the understatement... you should have seen him last night. I'll let him give you the details lol.

Maki Riddington
10-31-2004, 09:23 AM
Details! Details!

Vido
10-31-2004, 08:37 PM
Days 3-5: The "refeed"

lol, this is embarassing to post:

Diet:
Day 3 (cont. from above):
Meal 4: chicken fajitas at The Keg
Meal 5: mickey of Ballantine's Finest Scotch, 4 Buds
Meal 6: a few beers at the party
(Meal 5 was the pre-drink...Meal 6 was while out)
Meal 7: 2 Big Macs, 2 McChickens, 3 double cheeseburgers

Calories: a lot Protein: enough

Day 4:
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 2: 2 massive burritos (one beef, one chicken) from Taco Del Mar
Meal 3: about 3/5 of a 26 Maple Syrup Liqueur
Meal 4: 1 shot of jager, 8 Buds
Meal 5: 2 Stouffer's frozen dinners

Calories: a lot Protein: not so much

Day 5:
Meal 1: 2 chicken pitas
Meal 2: 2 pieces banana cream cake
Meal 3: medium BBQ chicken pizza from Panago (thin crust...hey, this is a cut here)
Meal 4: 600g caramel apple cheesecake
Meal 5: medium tropical hawaiian pizza from Panago (thin crust)

calories: a lot protein: enough


Training:
None (well, does grinding on girls count? :angel: )


Thoughts:
I don't think there's really very much to say here. I drank a lot, ate a lot, had a good time, that's about it. I didn't look too bad in my skin-tight Digimon children's costume, so I can't really be "that" messy :).

Tomorrow will be a good workout.

ryuage
11-01-2004, 04:06 AM
hrmm arent we supposed to refeedon carbs? :)

Vido
11-01-2004, 10:40 AM
hrmm arent we supposed to refeedon carbs? :)

Refeed wasn't in quotations for no reason ;) .

Regardless, just as a tribute to this diet (the actual PSMF diet, not my haphazard version) I looked in the mirror this morning, as you're supposed to do after the carb-up on UD2, and I was pleasantly surprised. I had made so much headway in the few days I was actually dialed in, that overall for the week I'm convinced I made progress.

Now, off to the gym for a little cardio to get the ball rolling again.

ryuage
11-01-2004, 10:45 AM
no doubt you probably did make progress psmf = severe caloric restriction... especially at your bodyweight :)

Vido
11-01-2004, 10:50 PM
Day 6:

Diet:
Cardio
Meal 1: 170g salmon
Meal 2: 170g salmon
Meal 3: 1 scoop whey
Workout
Meal 4: 170g salmon
Meal 5: 1 can tuna

Calories: 1090 Protein: 180-200g


Training:
Cardio: 30 minute incline walk at 15 degrees, 3.8mph
Workout: Upper body


Thoughts:
Did cardio on an empty stomach this morning. With classes and group work that's the only time I was going to have. I felt pretty light-headed again during this, which doesn't really make any sense because I had carbs in me. In fact, as I mentioned above I actually woke up quite full today. Even with a couple more nights of going out on the town thrown in here, this cut won't take more than another 3 weeks. The current plan is low cal tomorrow, refeed Wednesday (yeah, yeah it's only 2 days but give me a break) low cals Thur-Sat, extended refeed (with less cals each day) Sunday/Monday because I have an exam on Monday, then I'll see if I can go PSMF for 5-6 days before the next refeed.

Workout was "blah". When I know I'm only trying to maintain muscle, and not build it, I can't get the same level of intensity. Strength was the same as last workout, which is all I'm concerned about for the next few weeks.

Alke
11-01-2004, 11:07 PM
wow, light headed? I would be on that amount of calories....

you should do well maintaing strength for a while. my own strength didnt really start dropping till I was about 5 weeks into reduced calories, then it was just a matter of strategically planning refeeds till the end of the cut.

if you keep feeling light headed maybe suck on a few spree or make a maltodextrose solution to sip during the workout?

JSully
11-01-2004, 11:10 PM
Good job man, should stick to the PSMF a little longer this "cycle". Try to stay on it for a week-2 weeks you'll see better results. After about 4 days you'll start losing .4-.8lbs per day. I was losing a pound every other day the entire 2nd week I was on it. Strength is doing alright, but I fear I'm getting too lean to wait a whole 2 weeks, well 12 days before my Carb Load. I have a modified version I'm looking at doing, what do you think about this?:

Day1: Cardio ::: PSMF
Day2: Chest/Shoulders/Tris :::PSMF
Day3: Legs/Back/Bis ::: PSMF
Day4: Cardio ::: PSMF
Day5: Chest/Shoulders?tris :::PSMF
Day6: Legs/Back/Bis :::PSMF
Day7: Cardio
Day8: Full Body Tension Workout UD2 Style :::PSMF/Begin Carb Load After Workout
Day9: Off ::: Carb Load
Day10: Power Workout-Chest/Shoulders/Tris :::2g/lb Low GI Carbs
Day11: Power Workout-Legs/Back/Bis ::: 1g/lb Low GI Carbs

And then cycle back around. That's about a week and a half cycle. Once I get around 9% bf I'll switch it up to a modified UD2 but I'll make it an 8 day cycle instead of 7 days, because I hate the Full Body Power workout. I'd rather stretch out the power workout into 2 days and add another day to the cycle for rest after the 2nd power workout day.

Anyways, don't mean to intrude on your journal, good luck with the cut, you're doin great. As far as you're "feelings" on the cardio. I couldn't agree more, lightheadedness, nausia, headaches, its all horrible. Try doing hi reps/no rest workouts. :( That's not cool either.

Vido
11-01-2004, 11:13 PM
wow, light headed? I would be on that amount of calories....

you should do well maintaing strength for a while. my own strength didnt really start dropping till I was about 5 weeks into reduced calories, then it was just a matter of strategically planning refeeds till the end of the cut.

if you keep feeling light headed maybe suck on a few spree or make a maltodextrose solution to sip during the workout?

I don't know what spree are, but I do know I can't sip on a carb shake due to the nature of the diet. I appreciate the suggestion as it would definitely be beneficial to have some carbs, but that's just not a part of the PSMF diet. It's all about keeping calories as low as humanly possible, while still getting a decent amount of protein.

Unfortunately, light-headedness is going to be a side effect of a diet like this, as is an overall feeling of lethargy. It's the price you have to pay to get the same results you would on a normal, reduced-calorie diet in a fraction of the time.

Alke
11-01-2004, 11:23 PM
cool, stay focused then bro.....if your resrticting carbs to a tee then the malto woyuld not work = it would just screw up the results. (spree is candy like sweet tarts composed of dextrose, works in a pinch if you forget your own dextrose/malto dextrose solution)

I really like the way carb loading works after restricting carbs, I am still playing with my own percentages and calorie counts on that.

Vido
11-01-2004, 11:29 PM
Good job man, should stick to the PSMF a little longer this "cycle". Try to stay on it for a week-2 weeks you'll see better results. After about 4 days you'll start losing .4-.8lbs per day. I was losing a pound every other day the entire 2nd week I was on it. Strength is doing alright, but I fear I'm getting too lean to wait a whole 2 weeks, well 12 days before my Carb Load.


***I know full well I'd see better results staying on the PSMF for a longer period of time. Like I said, I'm not really looking to lose that much fat. If I managed to do a complete 2-week PSMF (no refeeds), I'm sure that would be enough to end the cut right there. However, I'm still in university, and hitting my goals in 4 weeks, as opposed to 2, is just fine if it means I get to go out and have fun with my buddies. In addition, as I've stated before, I have exams and studying for/writing exams on 1000 cals is a recipe for disaster.

I personally don't think it takes 4 days to start losing .4-.8lbs/day...I think you start losing weight as soon as you begin each cycle (and I'm not talking about water).***


I have a modified version I'm looking at doing, what do you think about this?:

Day1: Cardio ::: PSMF
Day2: Chest/Shoulders/Tris :::PSMF
Day3: Legs/Back/Bis ::: PSMF
Day4: Cardio ::: PSMF
Day5: Chest/Shoulders?tris :::PSMF
Day6: Legs/Back/Bis :::PSMF
Day7: Cardio
Day8: Full Body Tension Workout UD2 Style :::PSMF/Begin Carb Load After Workout
Day9: Off ::: Carb Load
Day10: Power Workout-Chest/Shoulders/Tris :::2g/lb Low GI Carbs
Day11: Power Workout-Legs/Back/Bis ::: 1g/lb Low GI Carbs

And then cycle back around. That's about a week and a half cycle. Once I get around 9% bf I'll switch it up to a modified UD2 but I'll make it an 8 day cycle instead of 7 days, because I hate the Full Body Power workout. I'd rather stretch out the power workout into 2 days and add another day to the cycle for rest after the 2nd power workout day.


***Looks good to me. You're basically doing a week of PSMF and then using the refeed from UD2, so of course you should see good results. Personally, I don't like all the workouts on the PSMF. I know 3 full-body workouts/week are suggested, and you're splitting these up so you end up with 4 workouts/week, but I just don't see the point. Aside from glycogen depletion, which I don't think is as big a deal on PSMF as it is on UD2, I feel they really serve no purpose. That's why you don't see me doing very many workouts, and I focus more on cardio for calorie-burning. We're in different situations though. You're cutting for quite a long time, whereas I'm basically just transitioning off a bulk, into a brief cut, and then back into a bulk. I like to workout more when I'm bulking, and I don't want to be lifting 5-6 days/week year round, so I just back off the volume during a cut.

So, would I ever do the workout you're proposing? No. But for your purposes, I think it will work quite well.***


Anyways, don't mean to intrude on your journal, good luck with the cut, you're doin great. As far as you're "feelings" on the cardio. I couldn't agree more, lightheadedness, nausia, headaches, its all horrible. Try doing hi reps/no rest workouts. :( That's not cool either.


***Thanks for the encouragement, and trust me, I've done the high-rep UD2 workouts before, and I know how much "fun" they are.***

Vido
11-01-2004, 11:34 PM
I really like the way carb loading works after restricting carbs, I am still playing with my own percentages and calorie counts on that.

I agree. I strongly feel that this is a far more efficient way of cutting than the traditional diets. It'll probably take you a couple of carb-ups to figure out exactly how many you need to fully replenish glycogen. You'd be surprised how many carbs your body can store after it's been depleted. The first few times on UD2 I didn't eat ENOUGH carbs (even though I was eating like 1000g), and was weak during the power workout.

SalahG
11-01-2004, 11:44 PM
Just out of curiousity, where did you guys get your information on PSMF?

Vido
11-01-2004, 11:48 PM
www.bodyrecomposition.com

Go to forums, General Diet Questions, and it's a sticky

Alke
11-01-2004, 11:53 PM
ooooh, more reading material to keep me up all hours of the night, I was just gonna ask a similiar question.......

JSully
11-01-2004, 11:54 PM
Those workouts I've stated aren't really for glycogen depletion as I only do 6-8 reps. I just do them to stay strong, and I don't bother with 60 seconds rest either. But I feel as if the diet isn't working if I don't workout plus I don't want to lose too much muscle mass.

And out of curiosity, what kind of a carb load do you do? I saw your previous load that looked like sh1t, LOL, is that the type of load you'll do each time, or will you try to do a "clean" load. (Pasta, Milk, Bagels, Dextrose?)

One last ??, do you think results would be better or pretty much the same doing a clean carb load compared to a sloppy carb load.

Say:

500g Dextrose
8 bagels = 400g carbs
8 total servings pasta w/tomato sauce = roughly 400g carbs

That = approx 1300g carbs, also while keeping dietary fat decently low w/peanut butter & protein fats.

Or would you see the same results just eating sh1t all day? I'm going for MAXIMAL results but I was wondering, since you seem more experienced at it, if you would see better results clean vs sloppy?

Vido
11-02-2004, 12:06 AM
Little Jake:
First off, if you're working out for psychological reasons (you said you don't feel like the diet is working if you don't lift), then fine. If you're doing it to keep strength up, I can't really agree with that. One workout/week is perfectly sufficient to maintain strength.

Now, as for the carbload, the next one will probably be a mess again because I'm going out (c'est la vie). After that, I will do clean carbloads. I have done both before on UD2, and can say with certainty that clean is the way to go for optimal results.

I have to say I wouldn't really consider the carbload you suggested "clean" though. Of course it's cleaner than my mess of a refeed, but I feel that a truly "clean" refeed is basically just all oats, brown rice, yams, and veggies (perhaps with some high GI carbs for the first meal or 2). 500g of dextrose is assinine imo...you have to remember that, although it's recommended for post-workout, it's still just pure sugar. You may as well be eating cookies and cake if that's the case because at least they taste better.

JSully
11-02-2004, 12:17 AM
I have to say I wouldn't really consider the carbload you suggested "clean" though. Of course it's cleaner than my mess of a refeed, but I feel that a truly "clean" refeed is basically just all oats, brown rice, yams, and veggies (perhaps with some high GI carbs for the first meal or 2). 500g of dextrose is assinine imo...you have to remember that, although it's recommended for post-workout, it's still just pure sugar. You may as well be eating cookies and cake if that's the case because at least they taste better.

Sweet, no pasta though? It's hard to carb load 1200g+ off of oats, brown rice, and sweet potatoes.

You'd feel sick all day. If you're going to do that clean of a carb load would it just be better to try to fit all the carbs into a 2 day load? (ie. thursday night friday and saturday, then mod carbs on sunday?)

BTW, thanks for all you're info, very helpful, and I'm talking ALL of this into consideration for my next carb load on the 12th.

Vido
11-02-2004, 01:03 AM
Sweet, no pasta though? It's hard to carb load 1200g+ off of oats, brown rice, and sweet potatoes.

You'd feel sick all day. If you're going to do that clean of a carb load would it just be better to try to fit all the carbs into a 2 day load? (ie. thursday night friday and saturday, then mod carbs on sunday?)

BTW, thanks for all you're info, very helpful, and I'm talking ALL of this into consideration for my next carb load on the 12th.

I don't put pasta in the category of "cleanest" foods out there, but it's only one step down. I think there's a hierarchy that goes something like this:

Cleanest: oats, brown rice, yams, fibrous veggies
Clean: pasta, potatoes, whole wheat bread/bagels, white rice
Iffy: white bread, cereals
Bad: basically all baked goods

I also think there's a trade-off between enjoying the carb-up and seeing optimal results. Clearly, carbing up on oats and brown rice is going to make you feel like vomiting, and wish you were still on the low cal days...BUT it's going to give the best results. Carbing up on pizza and donuts will still work and you'll enjoy it a lot more, but the results won't be on par with the clean carb-up. It's really up to you.

I don't really like the idea of an extended carb-up to be honest (which is one of the main reasons I prefer PSMF over UD2). Now I know my first refeed lasted 3 days, but that was the exception, not the rule. The low cal days are where the fat is lost, so you want to get your carb-up over and done with and get back on the track to fat loss as far as I'm concerned.

JSully
11-02-2004, 01:59 AM
The reasoning behind the 30hour carb load and the 2 following mod carb days was to raise leptin levels again which in turn sets the metabolic rate back to normal, or back as high as possible in 3 days. I'm not quite sure if that's precise, but I believe that was the reasoning Lyle had behind it.

Jezmason
11-02-2004, 02:56 AM
What are the exact maths behind this. I get the 1-1.5g/Ib for protein, but how do you figure out the figures for refeeds, and are there any workout rules like UD 2.0 or do you just fit it when you choose?

momomess
11-02-2004, 12:52 PM
vido: do you recommend this diet for a 200 pound mess?

TheGimp
11-02-2004, 01:18 PM
Hey Vido, good to see you've started a journal even if it is going to be shortlived :) Good luck with things, although with your know how, you don't really need it ;)

Vido
11-02-2004, 11:44 PM
Little Jake: Thanks for that info. I had forgotten about that, and that is definitely something to keep in mind.


Jezmason: You can read the sticky on the forums at www.bodyrecomposition.com, under General Diet Questions to get a better grasp on the diet. I'm not performing the diet exactly how it is meant to be done, so you wouldn't want to copy me unless you had a very good understanding of your body and knew how it reacted to various diets. I even stated that my idea of a "refeed" on this diet is just eating enough calories for your body to realize you are not trying to starve it (thus avoiding metabolic shutdown) and to have enough energy for the following day's lift. If you were to do the diet as suggested, you would probably come up with more specific ratios for the refeed.

Likewise with the training, the way I'm doing it is not typical. You are supposed to do 3 full body workouts/week. I don't feel that many workouts are necessary, or even helpful, so I'm choosing to do them more infrequently.


momomess: lol, I can't believe you signed up for this board. The diet should work for anyone, even you, but it might be hard for you to adjust to strictly protein foods when you're used to living off pizza pops and McDonald's ;) .


Gimpy: Thanks for stopping by and for the support!

Vido
11-02-2004, 11:56 PM
Day 7:

Diet:
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Meal 2: 2 scoops Dorian Yates ProPeptide
Cardio
Meal 3: 290g salmon
Cardio
Meal 4: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1284 Protein: 221g


Training:
1st cardio session: 3 minutes stepper, 10 HIIT intervals (30 seconds each) on the stepper, 17 minutes stepper
2nd cardio session: 20 minute incline walk at 15 degrees, 3.9 mph


Thoughts:
Due to some project that's just absolutely killing me, I had to squeeze those 2 cardio sessions into a 4-hour timeframe (before the gym closed). When I went the first time I intended on only doing 20 minutes on the stepper, regular pace. Once I got going though I was feeling good, and I also wasn't sure if I was going to come back later for another session, so I decided to push it and do some HIIT. Surprisingly, it wasn't overly difficult, even though I haven't done it in close to a month. Once I finished that, I was still unsure about the second session, so I decided to go for a little bit longer just in case. I did, however, end up going back just before the gym closed as I was feeling quite energetic and wasn't really in the mood to do any homework. That session was also quite easy.

Diet was decent today. I should probably be shooting for a little more protein, but I need them from more pure sources so I can keep the calories low. I was hungry for about an hour today, but aside from that, I've been perfectly content.

JSully
11-03-2004, 12:13 AM
Good job man, my cardio session today wasn't bad either. Although the headache was killin me. And the abs I did today made me want to keel over.

The dry cottage cheese.. where can I get that? I wanna try it out. I'm sure it would fill me up better than the 2 protein shakes I'm having every day. And they'd be about the same calories between a tub of dry cottage cheese and the 2 protein shakes I'm having. One protein shake has 56/6/3 - pro/carb/fat, so 2 of those is 112/12/6 where as you said the tub of dry cottage cheese is 105/11/2.5 so that's only about 50 calories off and less fat and less carbs as what I was at before.

Would that be over by the regular cottage cheeses in the grocery store or somewhere else? Or would I hafta go to a "Whole Foods" or "Trader Joes" to get it?

Vido
11-03-2004, 12:17 AM
The dry cottage cheese.. where can I get that?

As far as I know (at least where I live), you can find it in all of the major grocery stores right next to all the other cottage cheese. I warn you though, make sure it's in a tub. I bought this stuff that was in a plastic bag once and it was absolutely revolting.

lilmase1153
11-03-2004, 12:36 AM
great cardio today vido.. and salmon ummm yummy. by the way how do you make yours bake, grill??

Vido
11-03-2004, 12:50 AM
great cardio today vido.. and salmon ummm yummy. by the way how do you make yours bake, grill??

If I made it myself I would probably just grill it because I'm too lazy to do anything else. My mommy made this for me though :angel: , and I think she poached it in the oven.

lilmase1153
11-03-2004, 12:53 AM
originall posted by Vido
My mommy made this for me though , and I think she poached it in the oven.

lol, thats F N awesome bro haha

JSully
11-03-2004, 01:03 AM
"My mommy made this for me"

LMAO, thats sweet bro!

I'll check out the dry cottage cheese next time I go to the store.

Maki Riddington
11-03-2004, 08:33 PM
Dry cottage cheese is horrible. It's so bad, I have to mix in yogurt to eat this stuff.

JSully
11-03-2004, 10:19 PM
Dry cottage cheese is horrible. It's so bad, I have to mix in yogurt to eat this stuff.

That doesn't sound promising. :(

Vido
11-04-2004, 01:53 PM
Dry cottage cheese is horrible. It's so bad, I have to mix in yogurt to eat this stuff.

It really has no taste. I didn't like it the first time I tried it, but after that realized it really wasn't that bad. It was the same thing with regular cottage cheese, but I found the conversion time from not liking it to liking it was much shorter with the dry stuff.

Another good thing about it (at least on a low calorie diet) is that it is extremely filling. 300g (half a tub) is like a meal by itself, whereas I can down a whole 500g tub of the regular stuff and feel like I haven't eaten anything.

SalahG
11-04-2004, 01:58 PM
I'm thinking about trying your style of PSMF for 4 weeks Vido. How are your results so far?

Vido
11-04-2004, 02:12 PM
Day 8: "Refeed"

Diet:
Meal 1: 12 egg whites, 2 cups brown rice
At this point it went downhill.
Meal 2: 6 chicken quesadillas (100g each or so), 450g apple caramel pie
Meal 3: same as Meal 2
Meal 4: pre-drink: mickey + a couple extra shots of jager
Meal 5: a lot of beer, a few shots, you name it :alcoholic

calories: quite a few protein: not nearly enough


Training:
None


Thoughts:
Well, that will be the last day of $#@^ty eating on this diet. I was craving that pie so I figured I'd throw it in there on a day where I was already going to be eating poorly anyway. The protein count was really low; I was counting on the post-drunkenness binge at McDonald's to get that up, but I went straight home after the bar :( .

Luckily I have some exams coming up so I won't be tempted to go to the bar anymore for a while, which will be good for the cut. I'd say that's about 1/3 of the diet done now, and it was a pretty weak effort, but I made a little progress. The last 2/3, however, will be far superior, now that I'm going to be dialed in.

I think I'm going to go train legs after class just to tell my body I'm not messing around anymore. There's nothing more hardcore than doing a leg workout hungover.

Vido
11-04-2004, 02:14 PM
I'm thinking about trying your style of PSMF for 4 weeks Vido. How are your results so far?

Just follow my template and you'll see amazing results. Following what I'm actually doing and well...you may or may not. Keep checking in though as I'm going to be strict on this diet now, and I'll keep everyone updated on how well it's working.

lilmase1153
11-04-2004, 02:31 PM
dude at meal one you looked great... than it took a turn for the worst lol.. have a good leg w/o vido, and be safe while doing legs with a hangover.. ok who wants to bet he pukes while doing legs...

ryuage
11-04-2004, 03:04 PM
I sure like your choice in refeeds better then mind :)

JSully
11-04-2004, 07:19 PM
Alcohol, it's been forever since I've had alcohol. Now I'm having vodka/jager/everclear cravings. LOL.. great :rolleyes:

Good luck on the workout. I can't do legs after alcohol. I get SO sick and lose everything that's in my stomache, as well as massive migranes. Not cool!

Vido
11-04-2004, 09:00 PM
Day 9:

Diet:
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 2: 1 scoop whey
Meal 3: 1 scoop whey
Meal 4: 12 egg whites
Meal 5: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 6g fish oil

Calories: 988 Protein: 199g


Training:
3 tri-sets (leg curls, leg extensions, hack squats)
5 minutes HIIT (30 second intervals) on the stepper


Thoughts:
I could tell I was EXTREMELY weak when I was warming up on hack squats, so instead of trying to go heavy and risking injury, I just decided to do some higher rep tri-sets instead. Being hungover, this was pretty intense. I'm not really sure what possessed me to throw the HIIT in there at the end, but like I said, I'm done messing around.

JSully
11-04-2004, 10:30 PM
Good job man, I know how you feel about the weakness. I was getting broke on 105lb db's for flat db press for 10reps... I'm like wtf?!?!, when 6 days ago I hit the 125's for 10 reps. arg!

Mystic Eric
11-05-2004, 12:03 AM
*throws friendship away*

Maki Riddington
11-05-2004, 09:28 AM
Essentially, you are going on a low calorie diet?? How are you going to come off of this?

Vido
11-05-2004, 12:18 PM
Essentially, you are going on a low calorie diet?? How are you going to come off of this?

Well, if you've been following along, the AVERAGE calories have not been low at all, which isn't a good thing :redface:. However, even in the template I made up on the first page, it's 3 very low calorie days, followed by a refeed. I could be dead wrong, but I don't think 3 days is enough to have much effect on metabolism (which is what I believe you are getting at with your question). This is yet another reason why I love this diet. I can basically go straight back to bulking as soon as I finish, and that is the plan.

Vido
11-05-2004, 12:21 PM
Also Maki, keep in mind that it's not just "a low calorie diet". There are specific guidelines to follow in terms of protein, carbs, and fat.

Vido
11-05-2004, 12:24 PM
Good job man, I know how you feel about the weakness. I was getting broke on 105lb db's for flat db press for 10reps... I'm like wtf?!?!, when 6 days ago I hit the 125's for 10 reps. arg!

Well, I attribute my weakness solely to the alcohol. Yours, on the other hand, is why I don't particularly like the idea of doing workouts except after refeeds.

lilmase1153
11-05-2004, 02:52 PM
intense w/o for being hungover.. right on bro no more lessin around i like that attitude..

Vido
11-05-2004, 09:23 PM
Day 10:

Diet:
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Workout
Meal 2: 2 scoops whey
Meal 3: 1 scoop whey
Cardio
Meal 4: 15 egg whites
Meal 5: 15 egg whites
Meal 6: 1 can tuna, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1284 Protein: 269g


Training:
Workout: I decided to do a UD2 style high-rep workout for a little glycogen depletion this morning. Although I hate high-reps with a passion, especially on a low calorie diet, the pump I got was insane! Coupled with the fact that there was just no big guys in the gym, and a ton of girls, I felt quite good during this session :). It wasn't that much volume as my pump was preventing me from doing much after a while. 5 sets of chest and back, 2-3 of shoulders and arms, and I threw some abs in at the end.

Cardio: 30 minutes incline walk at 15 degrees, 3.9mph
15 minutes incline walk at 15 degrees, 4.0 mph


Thoughts: Like I said, the workout was great! The cardio was ok, I was a little light-headed at about the 32 minute mark on, but not too bad. That wasn't going to stop me from getting to my goal of 45 minutes. The guy on the treadmill next to me was in his 98th minute of a jog when I ended, so I felt like 45 minutes was kind of pathetic, even though it's the most I've done since summer.

Haven't been overly hungry, and I feel good enough to be studying efficiently, but I'm still not taking any chances and doing a carb-up on Sunday (the day before my exam).

I'll probably hit the campus bar for a while a little later on, but no drinking this time.

lilmase1153
11-05-2004, 09:54 PM
diet is looking good today vido.. and a nice w/o indeed thats some serious cardio after that high rep w/o... great job

Vido
11-06-2004, 12:37 AM
Just finished the second set of egg whites. I'm stuffed! I only wish cookies were this filling, so I didn't eat them by the box :(.

Vido
11-06-2004, 12:38 AM
diet is looking good today vido.. and a nice w/o indeed thats some serious cardio after that high rep w/o... great job

Thanks bro, and that's HUGE you put me in your sig, hahaha, I feel so priveleged :redface: .

lilmase1153
11-06-2004, 01:11 AM
yeah bro no prob man.. dude what you said is like the deffinition of hard core bro and thats how im trying to be... and i like your sif but i dont wanna steal it ya know... well wish me luck im off to the gym all alte tonight i just hope i dont drop some weights

Vido
11-06-2004, 01:26 AM
well wish me luck im off to the gym all alte tonight i just hope i dont drop some weights

What the hell? Isn't it like 2am out there? If you're trying to be hardcore, lifting at 2am meets my definition.

lilmase1153
11-06-2004, 05:28 AM
yeah man i am trying to be hard core but still not close to you.. and you need to read my journal bro....... all i can say is PR

ryuage
11-06-2004, 05:41 AM
great job on the diet vido, but you are gonna hit up the bar without drinking :scratch:

Vido
11-06-2004, 11:28 AM
great job on the diet vido, but you are gonna hit up the bar without drinking :scratch:

Well, there ended up being no problem as the line was far too long by the time my buddies got their act together to head down there, so we didn't even bother trying to wait.

Going to the bar and not drinking does suck, relatively speaking, but it's better than sitting at home studying on a Friday night.

JSully
11-06-2004, 12:48 PM
Going to the bar and not drinking does suck, relatively speaking, but it's better than sitting at home studying on a Friday night.

Ain't that the truth, I go out either Friday or Saturday night every weekend and don't drink. Everyone just looks at me funny, but I always end up having a good time. If I could dance better I would have an even better time, but can't win 'em all. I'd rather just wear a tight shirt and not have to dance because the ladies are overwhelmed with my arms. LMAO!

Mystic Eric
11-06-2004, 05:37 PM
Well, there ended up being no problem as the line was far too long by the time my buddies got their act together to head down there, so we didn't even bother trying to wait.

Going to the bar and not drinking does suck, relatively speaking, but it's better than sitting at home studying on a Friday night.

You know what's better than staying home on a Friday or going clubbing? HANGING OUT WITH ME!!!!!
:hello:

Vido
11-06-2004, 05:45 PM
You know what's better than staying home on a Friday or going clubbing? HANGING OUT WITH ME!!!!!
:hello:

I'm not even sure that would be better than staying home alone :D.

Mystic Eric
11-06-2004, 06:12 PM
I'm not even sure that would be better than staying home alone :D.

Hey, you're the one who asked me 5 times to grind last weekend!!! :omg:

Vido
11-06-2004, 08:58 PM
Day 11:

Diet:
Cardio
Meal 1: 2 scoops whey
Meal 2: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Workout and cardio
Meal 3: 2 scoops whey
Meal 4: 15 egg whites
Meal 5, 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1259 Protein: 257g


Training:
1st cardio session: 10 minutes incline walk at 15 degrees, 3.8mph
10 minutes incline walk at 15 degrees, 3.9mph
17 minutes incline walk at 15 degrees, 4.0 mph
10 minutes incline walk at 10 degrees, 3.7mph

Workout: UD2-style upper body workout. 7 sets for back and chest, 4 sets for shoulders and arms. Another ridiculous pump...I really don't feel that depleted still :confused:. My strength, however, was abysmal, and declined with each successive set.

2nd cardio session: Hopped on the stepper for 30 minutes of fairly easy cardio after my workout.


Thoughts:
I feel fine still, but I think I need to tone it down a little bit. 2 high-rep workouts and over 2 hours of cardio in 2 days is probably a little bit of overkill. The workout and the 2nd cardio session were both done with relative ease. The morning cardio was a different story. I was supposed to get to 25 minutes at 4mph, but there was just no way that was happening. I absolutely hate giving up, but enough was enough. I had been light-headed since less than 30 seconds into the session, and every minute was getting worse and worse. The weird thing about knocking it down a notch, is I probably could have walked for hours at 10 degrees, 3.7mph...it felt like I was walking downhill.

Change of plans again as far as how the diet's going to look this week, one change for the better, one for the worse. As for my exam, I'm saying "%@#$ it!" and sticking with the PSMF. I'll be prepared anyway, and we have more than enough time to write the exam, which means I can take each question slowly to make sure I'm not doing anything stupid. I'm on too much of a roll right now to be adding carbs back into the diet so quickly, especially because of the way the rest of the week is going to work itself out. I wish I wasn't so weak-willed, but with Remembrance Day (and thus no school) on Thursday and the big bar night on campus being Wednesday, it's just inevitable I'm going to drink. Therefore, PSMF continues through Tuesday, with various cardio sessions and perhaps one more depletion workout, then a 2-day carb-up Wed/Thur, followed by the power workout and back to the PSMF on Friday. By this point, I'm hoping I can do one last run on PSMF (maybe a week-long one) and then get into my bulk. You've all seen plans change before though, so we'll see what ends up happening.

JSully
11-06-2004, 10:17 PM
Damn good workout and cardio session. Mine didn't go quite as planned, I got there, did 4 sets of hang cleans, 4 sets of calves, 3-4 sets of abs and skipped cardio. LMAO, I skipped cardio on my cardio day. Go figure, ah well, I want to go out dancin' tonite with some friends so sacrifices must be made. Besides, I'm down 4lbs from yesterday.

I'll post everything in my journal when I get back from the club.

Vido
11-06-2004, 11:52 PM
Thanks Jake.

Well, if a $51 cottage cheese bill doesn't mean you're dialed in, I don't know what does.

ryuage
11-07-2004, 06:33 AM
yikes.. i hope thats a monthly bill :)

Vido
11-07-2004, 12:47 PM
yikes.. i hope thats a monthly bill :)

I wish. At a tub/day it won't even last 2 weeks. Just wait until I start bulking again :( .

Vido
11-07-2004, 10:41 PM
Day 12:

Diet:
Cardio
Meal 1: 2 scoops whey
Meal 2: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Meal 3: turkey + a few carrots (don't know exact amounts because this was eaten at a buddy's house...how hard is it eating only turkey and a few veggies when everyone else is having a full turkey dinner, ie. stuffing, perogies, mashed potatoes, cranberry sauce, gravy, chocolate cake? Answer: very hard, but I'm not messing this up now)
Meal 4: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 5: 170g turkey, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1054 + dinner at friend's Protein: 201g + dinner at friend's


Training:
Cardio: 10 minutes as hard as I could go on the elliptical
10 minutes stepper


Thoughts:
Ok, today SUCKED, for multiple reasons. Started out with that morning cardio, and I was attempting to do that alpha mediated cardio that I read about yesterday on Lyle's board (where you go 5-10 minutes balls-to-the-wall, 5 minutes rest, and 30-45 minutes low intensity), and as you can see I didn't make it very far. I was barely moving on the stepper so I figured it was just pointless. It wasn't that I was out of breath or lightheaded...my legs are just FRIED from all of this cardio.

Next, I did a bit of studying and then tried to go for a nap because I was extremely tired, where I proceeded to lie there with a headache/light-headed thinking about food for an hour. Then I got up and saw that the Bears had upset the Giants and knocked me out of a pool where I had a legitimate shot at winning over 4 grand :swear: .

Studied a bit more and went over to my friend's house where his mom had cooked a massive turkey dinner. I was of course forced to eat only the turkey, while my mouth just watered over all the carbs. I then lay on the couch for about 2 hours in a daze.

At the moment, I'm still extremely lethargic, I get a little dizzy when I stand up, but luckily I'm not hungry.

On the bright side, I'm looking the best I have in a while.

lilmase1153
11-07-2004, 11:16 PM
well congrats on lookin your best right now. although it cant help to be dizzy everytime you stand up but just get some rest and you should feel fine.. great job on the diet and will power to not eat all the good carbs.. well tonight is my cheat days o im off for some pizza.. good luck bro

Vido
11-08-2004, 09:27 PM
Day 13:

Diet:
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Meal 2: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 3: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Cardio
Meal 4: 1 can tuna
Meal 5: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1214 Protein: 240g


Training:
Abs: 5 x 5 weighted decline static holds + 2 x 8 decline reverse crunches
Cardio: 30 minutes stepper


Thoughts:
Feel good today. Haven't been light-headed or hungry once all day. I do, however, feel VERY small.

JSully
11-08-2004, 11:38 PM
Damn man, good job on the diet! Sounds like the cardio workouts are whippin your ass! That's good to hear. :D

As for my journal, I kinda drop off the face of the planet, journal wise, on the weekends. LOL

Alke
11-09-2004, 12:39 AM
yeah, its tough, but the results are worth the effort,

props on turning down the full dinner and sticking to just turkey and carrots bro.....

Vido
11-09-2004, 12:54 AM
Thanks for the support guys. Only one more low-calorie day and then I get to refeed. I can't imagine going much longer than this w/o one as I'm REALLY depleted.

lilmase1153
11-09-2004, 03:15 AM
solid work vido.. have fun on your refeed...

TheGimp
11-09-2004, 06:45 AM
Sounds like you're doing a great job, have fun with that refeed.

You guys ever consider drinking sugar free energy drinks instead of alcohol on a night out on the town? :hide:

mattburns
11-09-2004, 10:07 AM
well done on the diet, i cant imagine eating cottage cheese all day. great dedication :)

Vido
11-09-2004, 11:40 AM
lilmase: Thanks, and I will have fun on the refeed, hopefully not too much fun though :angel: .

Gimpy: Yeah, it's going well. It's really a love-hate relationship with diets like these. You absolutely hate doing them, but love the quick results. I don't know if I've ever seen sugar-free energy drinks to be honest. Knowing Canada's ridiculous Food and Drug Administration I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't allowed in the country.

mattburns: Thanks man. Luckily I don't mind cottage cheese, and at least the dry stuff is quite filling.

Mystic Eric
11-09-2004, 01:43 PM
OOOOOH LOOK AT YOU NOW!! MR. POPULAR!!!!!

*throws friendship away* :cry:

Vido
11-09-2004, 07:11 PM
Ignoring Eric once again...

Well, it seems as though I can't workout on Friday anymore (the planned day for my power workout), unless I go in the morning which I can't stand. Nothing that can't be fixed though. I'm about ready for a refeed anyway, so ala UD2 I'll be doing a tension workout tonight and then starting my carbload. My post-workout meal won't be until about 10pm, and I need to get in about 1200g carbs by 7pm tomorrow night, at which point I'm heading out for the evening. Looks like I have a lot of eating to do before then :burger:.

I'll post up today's diet after my workout later on.

Nito
11-09-2004, 07:35 PM
Good luck with the Ud 2.0

JSully
11-09-2004, 08:26 PM
Mmmmm, carbs!

I still gotta wait till thursday night. :drooling:

Vido
11-09-2004, 09:04 PM
Nito: Thanks man, but I'm not actually doing UD2, just using the refeed from it.

LittleJake: I'm salivating as I type this. Only a couple more hours...

JSully
11-10-2004, 12:51 AM
So you should be gorging yourself by now. :hmfff:

must be nice :rolleyes:

Vido
11-10-2004, 03:07 AM
LittleJake: You bet it is :D.

Day 14:

Diet:
Meal 1: 15 egg whites, 3g fish oil
Meal 2: 2 scoops Dorian Yates Pro Peptide
Meal 3: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 4: 1 scoop whey + 1 cup Kashi GoLean
Workout
Meal 5: 1 scoop whey + 3 cups Kashi GoLean
Meal 6: all you can eat teriyaki
Meal 7: eating a couple of chocolate cookies as I type this :drooling:

Calories: 1827 + restaurant Protein: 203 + restaurant Carbs: 160g + restaurant


Training:
Upper Body UD2-style tension workout. I didn't really have that much gas in the tank, pretty short workout. A few sets for each bodypart basically, mostly in the 10-12 rep range.


Thoughts:
Ahhhhhhhhhhhhh food! Finally, I got to eat again tonight, and I didn't disappoint. I planned out tomorrow's meals and because I have to fit everything in before 7pm I can only eat about 500g carbs of the 1200g I'm shooting for. So, that means I had to do quite the number at the all you can eat place tonight :D.

It worked out perfectly because I really have no carbs to eat in my room besides the cereal, brown rice, and oats, so when my buddy asked me if I wanted to go out to eat tonight I surprised him by giving him a "HELL YEAH". All you can eat for $12 is always a good deal and the food was actually quite decent. The entertainment alone was worth the money. The waitresses couldn't understand us when we tried asking for forks...SIX TIMES! There was some guy sitting at the bar who had just immigrated to Canada earlier in the day and he was just WRECKED off sake, singing the national anthem. Anyway, I don't know how good a "carb-up" that was considering I probably had equal amounts of all the macros given the foods we ate, but at least I ate a lot. Amidst all the meat and fried foods there must have been a bunch of quality carbs...or so I'll pretend.

It's all good though. I've done this type of suspect refeed before as we've all seen and I'm not struggling too badly, so I'm not that worried. Tomorrow I'm eating all brown rice and oats anyway...at least until I hit the bar :alcoholic .

Vido
11-10-2004, 03:09 AM
Oh yeah, and Gimpy, apparently we DO have those sugar-free energy drinks here now, but I still haven't seen them. I'll keep a look-out though.

Mystic Eric
11-10-2004, 03:14 AM
*throws friendship away*

lilmase1153
11-10-2004, 03:37 AM
have fun on the refeed bro...

JSully
11-10-2004, 07:21 AM
:drooling:

Jezmason
11-10-2004, 08:37 AM
How many carbs do you have on a carb load? Do you do it over one day or over the weekend like UD 2.0 and how many days do you have protein only?

ryuage
11-10-2004, 11:48 AM
yummmmm buffets... im definitely gonna hit one up this weekend for ya vido :)

Vido
11-10-2004, 12:01 PM
lilmase: I am, don't worry ;)

LittleJake: soon it will be your turn and I'll be the one jealous of you :)

Jezmason: Well, I'm shooting for around 1500-1600g (1200g before I go out and I'm leaving a little window for some drinks and eating afterwards). I started late last night after a workout, and I'll do it for the duration of the day, then it's back to low cals tomorrow even though I'll be doing the power workout (that's a big difference from UD2, but is only my own personal way of doing things). The protein-only depends on a lot of things. For the real PSMF diet it is based on bodyfat. If you're 20+% you go about 2 weeks straight before a refeed. As your % drops there is less time between refeeds. I choose to refeed more often because a) I only do heavy workouts the day after my refeed and b) I'm trying to avoid metabolic shutdown as much as possible.

Ryuage: I'm a HUGE fan of buffets...although I can probably pack down enough cals for a week at one of those places if I'm not careful, so they're not always the greatest idea. The place last night though actually wasn't a buffet. They gave you a little ordering sheet and you ticked off what you wanted. They brought it and then just kept giving you more order sheets.

lilmase1153
11-10-2004, 02:26 PM
hmmmm even im jealous and im not on a diet... buffett :drooling:
and make sure you get plenty :alcoholic

Vido
11-10-2004, 02:36 PM
and make sure you get plenty :alcoholic

That's never a problem ;) .

TheBigOne
11-10-2004, 03:40 PM
You're headed for an early death my friend. At the rate of carb ingestion and the provisional diet you are eating, you seek to run the risk of premature coronary problems.

Eating as much as you do, it seems that you have a degree of Megarexia commonly associated with males in the 18-27 year old range. This degree of self image while at times unnoticable to others can lead to direct personal harm and problems.

For your own sake Vido, consult a doctor before you continue these trends, or they may lead to steroid use if you do not find yourself getting "huge" so to speak.

JSully
11-10-2004, 05:50 PM
You're headed for an early death my friend. At the rate of carb ingestion and the provisional diet you are eating, you seek to run the risk of premature coronary problems.

Eating as much as you do, it seems that you have a degree of Megarexia commonly associated with males in the 18-27 year old range. This degree of self image while at times unnoticable to others can lead to direct personal harm and problems.

For your own sake Vido, consult a doctor before you continue these trends, or they may lead to steroid use if you do not find yourself getting "huge" so to speak.

Is this serious?

and from a person with only 1 post....hmmmm...must be a joke, I like your sense of humor.

Anyways, good goin with the all-u-can-eat. Sounds tasty! I gotta wait till tomorrow night before I can endulge. I'm going to do a different kind of carb load. Instead of putting down on paper what I'm going to have at meals throughout the day. I'm going to put down what I need to eat for the ENTIRE thursday night-friday night. So, I'll have probably 2 boxes of cereal, 1/2lb of spaghetti w/sauce, 6 bagels, 2 large cans of baked beans, as well as 2 dextrose/protein shakes (w/peanut butter :D). And I might slide a couple peanut butter & jelly sandwiches in there. Also I'm going to treat myself to a whopper and small fry, and some pizza later that night. I figure, as long as I get all that in during the allotted time frame, it shouldn't matter when I eat, because I'll basically be doing it all day long. I also forgot the 1/2-3/4 gallon of milk I'll be drinking from combo of cereal and just because I like milk.

All that together should put me in the 1500g range. Yumm!!!

I was thinking of switching off to the PSMF for the week of thanksgiving/whenever there's a special function (christmas party at work/christmas/new years)....

I really enjoy the UD2, but I don't like how I can't alter it too much like the PSMF. So, I'll do the UD2 up till the saturday before thanksgiving and instead of finishing the diet up on sunday, I'll do the power workout on Saturday, then onto PSMF and glyco depletion Sunday and tons of cardio throughout the week, then load on thanksgiving and cycle 2 4 day cycles of PSMF with low end CL's (1/4-1/2 as many carbs as a reg CL) and then start the UD2 again the following monday.

Hmmmmm, I think that would work alright, what do you think?

Didn't mean to invade your journal, flame if you want. :thumbup: My bad.

Dirt
11-10-2004, 07:11 PM
You're headed for an early death my friend. At the rate of carb ingestion and the provisional diet you are eating, you seek to run the risk of premature coronary problems.

Eating as much as you do, it seems that you have a degree of Megarexia commonly associated with males in the 18-27 year old range. This degree of self image while at times unnoticable to others can lead to direct personal harm and problems.

For your own sake Vido, consult a doctor before you continue these trends, or they may lead to steroid use if you do not find yourself getting "huge" so to speak.

You do realize he's on a weight LOSS diet right? That pretty much invalidates oh....everything you just said

Jezmason
11-11-2004, 03:04 AM
2 weeks without carbs.......eugh. Might give it a try or i might just try and stick with UD 2.0.

Mystic Eric
11-11-2004, 03:32 PM
I heard that you fooled around with some girl at the campus bar last night :(

HOW DARE YOU!!!! :cry: *gets jealous*

Vido
11-11-2004, 06:18 PM
Day 15:

Diet:
Meal 1: 1/3 tub dry cottage cheese, 2 cups brown rice
Meal 2: 2 cups brown rice
Meal 3: 1/3 tub dry cottage cheese, 2 cups brown rice
Meal 4: 1/3 tub dry cottage cheese, 2 cups brown rice
Meal 5: chicken teriyaki on white rice, 5 gyozas on white rice, piece of chocolate cake
Meal 6: mickey of scotch
Meal 7: a few beers
Meal 8: Denny's: Ultimate omelette, hashbrowns, toast, mozzarella sticks, chicken strips, and onion rings :redface:


Training:
None


Thoughts:
Well, the carb-up was half decent, moderately clean anyway. Then of course things went downhill when the drinking started, but that was all planned for.

Some assclown pulled the fire alarm TWICE at the bar :mad: . After the second time (I think it was about 12:30 or 1am) they just shut the bar down. That really sucks, I hate when that happens, except when I happen to be one of the schmucks waiting in line when it goes off and everyone has to evacuate :D.

Vido
11-11-2004, 06:19 PM
You're headed for an early death my friend. At the rate of carb ingestion and the provisional diet you are eating, you seek to run the risk of premature coronary problems.

Eating as much as you do, it seems that you have a degree of Megarexia commonly associated with males in the 18-27 year old range. This degree of self image while at times unnoticable to others can lead to direct personal harm and problems.

For your own sake Vido, consult a doctor before you continue these trends, or they may lead to steroid use if you do not find yourself getting "huge" so to speak.

Ignoring the rest of the crap in your post, when did I state my goal in life was longevity?

Vido
11-11-2004, 06:23 PM
Is this serious?

and from a person with only 1 post....hmmmm...must be a joke, I like your sense of humor.

Anyways, good goin with the all-u-can-eat. Sounds tasty! I gotta wait till tomorrow night before I can endulge. I'm going to do a different kind of carb load. Instead of putting down on paper what I'm going to have at meals throughout the day. I'm going to put down what I need to eat for the ENTIRE thursday night-friday night. So, I'll have probably 2 boxes of cereal, 1/2lb of spaghetti w/sauce, 6 bagels, 2 large cans of baked beans, as well as 2 dextrose/protein shakes (w/peanut butter :D). And I might slide a couple peanut butter & jelly sandwiches in there. Also I'm going to treat myself to a whopper and small fry, and some pizza later that night. I figure, as long as I get all that in during the allotted time frame, it shouldn't matter when I eat, because I'll basically be doing it all day long. I also forgot the 1/2-3/4 gallon of milk I'll be drinking from combo of cereal and just because I like milk.

All that together should put me in the 1500g range. Yumm!!!

I was thinking of switching off to the PSMF for the week of thanksgiving/whenever there's a special function (christmas party at work/christmas/new years)....

I really enjoy the UD2, but I don't like how I can't alter it too much like the PSMF. So, I'll do the UD2 up till the saturday before thanksgiving and instead of finishing the diet up on sunday, I'll do the power workout on Saturday, then onto PSMF and glyco depletion Sunday and tons of cardio throughout the week, then load on thanksgiving and cycle 2 4 day cycles of PSMF with low end CL's (1/4-1/2 as many carbs as a reg CL) and then start the UD2 again the following monday.

Hmmmmm, I think that would work alright, what do you think?

Didn't mean to invade your journal, flame if you want. :thumbup: My bad.

Have fun on the carbload!

I'm not sure if I'm totally following your plan, although from what I'm understanding it seems like it would work just fine. Why do you need to do the second 4-day cycle though?

Vido
11-11-2004, 06:29 PM
Dirt: Thank-you

Jezmason: It's only 2 weeks if you're above 20%. It's a better diet for pure fat loss than UD2. UD2 is more muscle-sparing though.

Eric: Don't worry, I was thinking about you at the time ;)

Mystic Eric
11-11-2004, 06:35 PM
Eric: Don't worry, I was thinking about you at the time ;)

YAY!!!! http://messenger.msn.com/MMM2004-08-11_11.52/Resource/emoticons/guy_hug.gif http://messenger.msn.com/MMM2004-08-11_11.52/Resource/emoticons/kiss.gif

Vido
11-11-2004, 08:33 PM
Day 16:

Diet:
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Workout
Meal 2: 1 scoop whey
Meal 3: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 4: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 5: 1/3 tub dry cottage cheese + 1 can tuna, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1239 Protein: 228g


Training:
Low-rep upper body, I barely did anything as I just wasn't feeling into it. Something like 2 sets seated rows, 3 sets db press, 1 set pulldowns, 1 set deadlifts, 1 set wide-grip upright rows.


Thoughts:
Although this diet probably allows you to get away better with stupid things like binge-drinking or eating, I have to conclude drinking the night before your one heavy workout/week isn't the smartest idea. Not that that wasn't abundantly obvious, but it was just brought to the forefront today. Strength in that workout wasn't awful, but it wasn't great either.

One of these days maybe I'll do legs...

I'm not sure yet, but I might go for a run tonight to shift back into fat loss mode more quickly.

Alke
11-11-2004, 09:02 PM
I get a few people telling me I am only hurting myself by using carb loading, cutting, then bulking, then cutting again...but I am not going to die early. I know cause a fortune teller read my palm and she told me I was going to live to be 110 years old.

JSully
11-11-2004, 10:48 PM
Have fun on the carbload!

I'm not sure if I'm totally following your plan, although from what I'm understanding it seems like it would work just fine. Why do you need to do the second 4-day cycle though?


LittleJake status => Currently Carb Loading

:D

The 2nd 4-day cycle is to get me back on a monday-sunday track. Rather than doing one 8day PSMF cycle. I can do 2 with very low loads (400g carbs range). Then after the 2nd one, I'd be back on a standard UD2 Monday-Sunday routine.

JeffWillConquer
11-11-2004, 11:11 PM
hey, just stopping in. Are metabolic shutdowns common? I'm only a few days into my cut and considering some sort of refeed bi-weekly.

JSully
11-11-2004, 11:21 PM
Only 30% shutdown and that's if you're on for over a week.

Vido
11-12-2004, 02:08 AM
The 2nd 4-day cycle is to get me back on a monday-sunday track. Rather than doing one 8day PSMF cycle. I can do 2 with very low loads (400g carbs range). Then after the 2nd one, I'd be back on a standard UD2 Monday-Sunday routine.

Oh ok, that's what I was thinking, but I wasn't sure. I think that would work just fine then. I don't know if you need to cut the carbs down so much though. Depending on your workouts/cardio you can get quite depleted in 3 days of low cals...just look at UD2.

Vido
11-12-2004, 02:12 AM
hey, just stopping in. Are metabolic shutdowns common? I'm only a few days into my cut and considering some sort of refeed bi-weekly.

"Shutdown" is a pretty harsh word. Like LittleJake said, your metabolism can shut down on a low cal diet, but 30% is about the worst it can get. (That's 30% off, so you'd have to eat 70% of what you normally do to avoid gaining the weight back.) These "slowdowns" occur as early as on the 4th day I believe, or maybe it's the 5th...that's why I had originally scheduled a refeed every 4th day, but it's a tradeoff. Doing this will keep your metabolism humming, but will slow down the cut.

lilmase1153
11-12-2004, 02:13 AM
vido your diet and training is looking quite nice... even after your binge drinking but hell you deserve it bro youve been puttin in some awesome work.. keep it up big V

Vido
11-12-2004, 02:15 AM
Only 30% shutdown and that's if you're on for over a week.

I believe Lyle said shutdown starts in as little as 4 days, which is why UD2 is set up the way it is.

Question though: The way you worded your post it would seem like you're implying that your metabolism automatically drops by 30% after the specified timeframe. Don't you think the degree to which it was shutdown would depend on the duration of the restricted calorie part of the diet? In other words, maybe after 4 days your metabolism slows down by 5%, and after a week 10%...I think you would have to stay low calorie for a good chunk of time for it to be reduced the full 30%. I don't know the answer to this, but that would be my understanding anyway.

Vido
11-12-2004, 02:17 AM
vido your diet and training is looking quite nice... even after your binge drinking but hell you deserve it bro youve been puttin in some awesome work.. keep it up big V

Thanks a lot man! It's comments like that that help to keep me focused. The drinking's definitely slowing me down, but hey, you're only in university once right? :)

lilmase1153
11-12-2004, 02:18 AM
thats the right attitude bro.. and we all know your gonna come on stronger for it so in the long run its all gravy...

Vido
11-12-2004, 02:19 AM
Update Day 16:

I did end up going for that run. The gym was closed early for the holiday, so I had to go outside. I found some stairs in front of one of the buildings on campus and did 40 reps sprinting up them. Coupled with the jog to and from the building, it was about 30 minutes of cardio...quite a good session at that.

ryuage
11-12-2004, 03:34 AM
good job on the cardio..... get that heart pumping :)

JSully
11-12-2004, 07:06 AM
"Shutdown" is a pretty harsh word. Like LittleJake said, your metabolism can shut down on a low cal diet, but 30% is about the worst it can get. (That's 30% off, so you'd have to eat 70% of what you normally do to avoid gaining the weight back.) These "slowdowns" occur as early as on the 4th day I believe, or maybe it's the 5th...that's why I had originally scheduled a refeed every 4th day, but it's a tradeoff. Doing this will keep your metabolism humming, but will slow down the cut.

Yes I do think it would be gradual, but coupled with the glyco deplete workouts I'm thinking it can come crashing down to the 30% range in about a week. Then after your refeed it should come almost back to normal, providing you've given yourself plenty of calories. Then your body adjusts to the massive amount of calories and the next day plans on taking them again so it keeps the metabo up so it can handle it. That's how I understood it. But, that's also not taking into account any supplements you are taking. I'm pretty sure ECA will keep you charged up for a little bit longer, but I'm not a DR. so don't take my word for it. lol

JSully
11-12-2004, 07:06 AM
BTW, nice cardio. I woulda been too lazy for that. :D

JSully
11-12-2004, 07:07 AM
now to go make my 1/2 lb of pasta...

Vido
11-12-2004, 01:45 PM
Yes I do think it would be gradual, but coupled with the glyco deplete workouts I'm thinking it can come crashing down to the 30% range in about a week. Then after your refeed it should come almost back to normal, providing you've given yourself plenty of calories. Then your body adjusts to the massive amount of calories and the next day plans on taking them again so it keeps the metabo up so it can handle it. That's how I understood it. But, that's also not taking into account any supplements you are taking. I'm pretty sure ECA will keep you charged up for a little bit longer, but I'm not a DR. so don't take my word for it. lol

I'm not sure that your metabolism can adjust as quickly as you're implying. If it were to reach 30% shutdown, I don't think a single day of refeeding would be enough to shoot that back up to full speed. If that was the case, people would have no problem coming off PSMF and getting straight back into bulking. Lyle says (this applies if you're doing the PSMF properly with a decent amount of time between refeeds) that the only way you can get back to bulking without automatically regaining fat is to do it very "carefully". One refeed won't get your metabolism to where you want it to be.

Vido
11-12-2004, 01:46 PM
now to go make my 1/2 lb of pasta...

:swear:

JSully
11-12-2004, 06:11 PM
I'm not sure that your metabolism can adjust as quickly as you're implying. If it were to reach 30% shutdown, I don't think a single day of refeeding would be enough to shoot that back up to full speed. If that was the case, people would have no problem coming off PSMF and getting straight back into bulking. Lyle says (this applies if you're doing the PSMF properly with a decent amount of time between refeeds) that the only way you can get back to bulking without automatically regaining fat is to do it very "carefully". One refeed won't get your metabolism to where you want it to be.

OK, I see what you're saying, and agree. My answer to the re-fixation of the metabolic shutdown would be to do 3-4 weeks of UD2. Because of the 3 day calorie refeeds, that equal close to 18,000 calories for a 200LBM person that should kick it back up in a couple weeks. Do that for 3-4 weeks then a maintenance diet for 2 weeks then you could start bulking. Mmmm, bulking :drooling:

About the pasta: :D ...now to avoid alcohol this weekend. :hide:

ryuage
11-13-2004, 04:47 AM
well if you are one who gets sick of eating, you can bulk on 2000 calories coming off a psmf :)

Vido
11-13-2004, 02:56 PM
well if you are one who gets sick of eating, you can bulk on 2000 calories coming off a psmf :)

Have you been following this journal? Does it LOOK like I get sick of eating? :D

Keeping metabolism up is very important to me. I can't imagine not being able to eat at least 4-5K cals on my next bulk.

ryuage
11-13-2004, 03:00 PM
at 200+ lbs I would imagine you would need that much anyway...

Vido
11-13-2004, 03:01 PM
...now to avoid alcohol this weekend. :hide:

I remember reading this and thinking "well, that's not going to be a problem for me for once this weekend". Then I end up getting wrecked, lol...such pathetic discipline :( .

Vido
11-13-2004, 03:03 PM
at 200+ lbs I would imagine you would need that much anyway...

Well, I don't like messing around on bulks. If I have to throw some fat on then so be it. I'd rather be taking in too much food than too little. Then again, that's why I'm having to cut right now :mad: .

Vido
11-13-2004, 03:26 PM
Day 17:

Diet:
Cardio
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Meal 2: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 3: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 4: about 8 shots of tequila, a couple gin and 7 Up's, a couple of beers
Meal 5: Denny's: BBQ chicken sandwich, Sampler, piece of pecan pie :redface:


Training:
Cardio: 60 minutes incline walk at 15 degrees, 3.9mph, with a couple 2 minute stints at 4.5 mph thrown in for good measure.


Thoughts:
I'm not happy about this at all. I was ridiculously dialed in after that late night run on Thursday, then the long early morning cardio session yesterday, and then I go and drink it all away :mad: . It was a weird day, I was having huge mood and energy swings. I woke up exhausted, but dragged my ass to the gym anyway. I popped some EC and all of a sudden I was just bursting with energy. My 45-minute cardio session turned into 60, and if it wasn't so catabolic (going that long + first thing in the morning) I would have done more. I stayed energized for the next couple of hours, I guess maybe a little bit of the "runner's high", and then a wave of tiredness hit me like a huge boulder. I fought it off for as long as I could because I don't like having naps (makes me have a tougher time getting to sleep at night), but I just couldn't keep my eyes open. I ended up sleeping right through what would have been another cardio session, and the gym was 20 minutes from closing by the time I woke up. So, not only did that nap cost me a cardio session, but it also completely re-energized me and I was all of a sudden really pumped to go out. My buddies had tried to convince me to drink earlier in the day and I basically told them to "#@%^ off", but when I woke up that's all I wanted to do. The worst part was the bar ended up being completely dead, which made no sense for a Friday night. You might ask "why didn't you just go somewhere else?" We're weird that way though, we basically just go to one bar and that's it. So, we stuck it out for a while, hoping it would pick up, but it never did. All bad nights die at Denny's, so that was just a given at that point. The only amusing part of the night was my buddy, supposedly a bodybuilder, who couldn't even eat 1/2 a chicken sandwich...it was one of the most pathetic displays of eating I've ever witnessed.

Anyway, back on track today (hopefully). I'm going to hit the gym in a bit and stay there for a full 2 hours. Workout, cardio, whatever, I need to burn some cals.

Maki Riddington
11-13-2004, 03:31 PM
Which bar was it?

Vido
11-13-2004, 03:45 PM
Which bar was it?

uhhhhh, The Pit...*runs and hides in shame*

The only place I really like downtown, and that we actually do go to sometimes, is Caprice, but I wasn't with the right crowd for that last night.

Frozenmoses
11-13-2004, 03:49 PM
I feel for you on the alcohol, Vido. Being in college and living with a party animal, it's tough to have self control. Luckily, I just spend all my money on groceries before I have the chance to buy beer.

Vido
11-13-2004, 03:54 PM
I feel for you on the alcohol, Vido. Being in college and living with a party animal, it's tough to have self control. Luckily, I just spend all my money on groceries before I have the chance to buy beer.

Yeah, my partying is going to come to a crashing halt here real soon, as I really can't keep financing it. Although last night between drinking and Denny's I somehow only spent $18...it's always nice when other people are buying your drinks :p .

Mystic Eric
11-13-2004, 04:41 PM
uhhhhh, The Pit...*runs and hides in shame*

The only place I really like downtown, and that we actually do go to sometimes, is Caprice, but I wasn't with the right crowd for that last night.

Pfft, DD is the only crowd you need!

Vido
11-13-2004, 08:50 PM
Day 18:

Diet:
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Meal 2: 1 scoop whey
Workout + Cardio
Meal 3: 1 scoop whey
Meal 4: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 5: 1 can tuna
Meal 6: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1179 Protein: 233g


Training:
Workout: Upper body depletion: 8 sets back, 7 sets chest, 3 sets arms/shoulders
Cardio: 5 minute warm-up on stepper
8 30-second sprinting intervals on the stepper
2 1-minute sprinting intervals on the stepper


Thoughts:
None

Maki Riddington
11-13-2004, 09:37 PM
Ah yes, the Pit. There's no shame in admitting to hanging out at the Pit. Hehe....

Vido
11-13-2004, 10:22 PM
Ah yes, the Pit. There's no shame in admitting to hanging out at the Pit. Hehe....

It's too bad your days of partying are behind you or you could come out one time. Then again, you might feel a little awkward being the oldest person there by like 5 years :D.

Jasonl
11-14-2004, 01:52 PM
Looks like a nice little cardio session there, Vido. I take it your cardio performance has improved about 10-fold since you started this diet? :)

Vido
11-14-2004, 08:58 PM
Day 19:

Diet:
Cardio
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Meal 2: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Workout
Meal 3: 1 scoop whey
Meal 4: 15 egg whites
Meal 5: 15 egg whites, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1184 Protein: 248g


Training:
Cardio: 75 minutes incline walk varying between 12-15 degrees, 3.7-4.5mph
Workout: Upper-body depletion: 9 sets back, 7 sets chest, 5 sets tris, 3 sets bis


Thoughts:
I woke up this morning STARVING, dreaming of food :(. That didn't stop me from heading straight for the gym, where I proceeded to get a little carried away again and stayed on the treadmill for quite a bit longer than planned. That's gotta be catabolic. Oh well, I'm just going for pure fat loss here. I'll be bulking again soon enough and will easily gain any muscle I've lost back (although I'm not sure I've lost any anyway).

Workout was ok. I felt really small and didn't get a very good pump...all that means is I'm getting depleted which is good I guess. It sucks though when everyone else is bulking at this time of year, and I'm looking like a little #%#@$.

Vido
11-14-2004, 09:02 PM
Looks like a nice little cardio session there, Vido. I take it your cardio performance has improved about 10-fold since you started this diet? :)

Well, I'm basically back up to where I should be. I'd say I'm about where I was at in the early summer, and I weigh more now too so that's good. I was in pretty pathetic shape for a while there, getting winded walking up stairs and such :redface:

Jasonl
11-14-2004, 09:40 PM
Well, I'm basically back up to where I should be. I'd say I'm about where I was at in the early summer, and I weigh more now too so that's good. I was in pretty pathetic shape for a while there, getting winded walking up stairs and such :redface:
I suppose that is one good thing about cutting for most, more cardio=better condition.

Vido
11-14-2004, 09:53 PM
I suppose that is one good thing about cutting for most, more cardio=better condition.

Yeah, I try to still do a few sessions/week even when bulking, but the rapid increases in weight I usually experience make even the smallest cardiovascular activities more challenging.

lilmase1153
11-14-2004, 10:23 PM
whoa way to go big V getting wasted... i think everyone needs a lil slip up every now and than, as it makes them go at it that much harder the rest of the way out.. great cardio lately too

Manveet
11-14-2004, 10:33 PM
Dude, how many cardio sessions are you doing per day? 2? How many per week? How long do you go for each time, 60min?

All that seems like a ****load to me. Did you build up to this amount? Or are you trying to squeeze out the most amount of fatloss per week?

On UD2 I was barely doing 2 sessions a week of ~30min moderate intensity (but that was on top of the crazy depletion workouts). But I'd imagine PSMF would be no different, if you eating so few calories, plus training using a 2 day split, you wouldn't need a whole lot of cardio to burn off extra fat. I dunno, if your seeing great results by upping the cardio, I might follow suit when I try PSMF:)

JSully
11-15-2004, 12:57 AM
I'm actually upping cardio too. On my depletion days I plan on doing 30-45 mins and on my off days I plan on doing an 60-75 mins cardio.

I'll probably do something along the lines of 30 mins reg cardio and 15 mins HIIT on training days, then on off days I'll do 60 mins regular then 15mins HIIT. I'm really liking this HIIT. You don't think that'll be too much cardio do ya Vido?

Anyways, how do you stay on the treadmill for 75 mins? I only lasted 30 mins today. It was so easy but it's SOOOOO boring. I don't mind the elliptical as much because it's closer to the tv's and I generally go faster. I was even watching tv tonite while on the treadmill but it was just so boring. Thats when I decided to do the HIIT on the stepper, which I fell in love with again. I like getting my ass beat like that. I figure after 2-3 weeks of doing HIIT every other day or so, I'll be in pretty good cardio condition. I may even keep it up for when I start my bulk in January.

Well, as always, great cardio session man. Keep up the great work, what's ur weight down to now? After my carb and creatine load on Friday, Saturday's weight put me 10lbs lower than 4 weeks ago. Not too bad I suppose, although strength did suffer a little. I'm back to the UD2 though to possibly gain some muscle mass, hell I might even add in a tiny 3 week andro (m1t) cycle to up my strength gains during weekends while I'm on it ;) It's still in the early thought stages though because I really don't wanna spend the money for a pct seeing how I'll do between 30-40mg/day of M1T. But I doubt it'll shut much down in 3 weeks because 20mg/day didn't do much but show massive strength gains:: checking into this more. I may just run the M1T straight for 2 weeks and not worry about a PCT. I dunno yet, as I said, still in the thought process stage.

Mystic Eric
11-15-2004, 02:43 AM
whoa way to go big V getting wasted... i think everyone needs a lil slip up every now and than, as it makes them go at it that much harder the rest of the way out.. great cardio lately too

Too bad "little V" (and I do mean REALLY little) didn't get wasted nor get any action :(

Vido
11-15-2004, 02:53 AM
whoa way to go big V getting wasted... i think everyone needs a lil slip up every now and than, as it makes them go at it that much harder the rest of the way out.. great cardio lately too

Thanks man. I think you're right about the motivation. I was really mad at myself for drinking the other night because it just wasn't even a good night; I don't mind getting drunk with the boys if we're having a good time, but that was just a waste. In any event, I ended up training quite hard this weekend, so maybe it wasn't so bad after all.

Vido
11-15-2004, 03:02 AM
Dude, how many cardio sessions are you doing per day? 2? How many per week? How long do you go for each time, 60min?

All that seems like a ****load to me. Did you build up to this amount? Or are you trying to squeeze out the most amount of fatloss per week?

On UD2 I was barely doing 2 sessions a week of ~30min moderate intensity (but that was on top of the crazy depletion workouts). But I'd imagine PSMF would be no different, if you eating so few calories, plus training using a 2 day split, you wouldn't need a whole lot of cardio to burn off extra fat. I dunno, if your seeing great results by upping the cardio, I might follow suit when I try PSMF:)

I don't really have a set number of cardio sessions for the day or week. Some days I take completely off, sometimes it's 1, others it's 2. I rotate between 3 types: incline walk (I'm up in between 45-75min now), stepper (20-30 minutes), and HIIT on the stepper (10 minutes). If you go day-by-day through the journal you'll see I have been building up this amount (at least the incline walk).

Yes, I'm trying to squeeze the most amount of fat loss out per week. I said from the beginning I didn't plan on doing this very long, and I'm sticking to that. In fact, the end might be coming quite close...

I did at least 2-2.5 hours on UD2, so evidently you just do less cardio than me :D. The bigger the caloric deficit, the better as far as I'm concerned. Then again, you and I have different bodytypes. I'm pretty sure it takes more for me to lose weight and less to gain it than you.

Vido
11-15-2004, 03:10 AM
I'm actually upping cardio too. On my depletion days I plan on doing 30-45 mins and on my off days I plan on doing an 60-75 mins cardio.

I'll probably do something along the lines of 30 mins reg cardio and 15 mins HIIT on training days, then on off days I'll do 60 mins regular then 15mins HIIT. I'm really liking this HIIT. You don't think that'll be too much cardio do ya Vido?

Anyways, how do you stay on the treadmill for 75 mins? I only lasted 30 mins today. It was so easy but it's SOOOOO boring. I don't mind the elliptical as much because it's closer to the tv's and I generally go faster. I was even watching tv tonite while on the treadmill but it was just so boring. Thats when I decided to do the HIIT on the stepper, which I fell in love with again. I like getting my ass beat like that. I figure after 2-3 weeks of doing HIIT every other day or so, I'll be in pretty good cardio condition. I may even keep it up for when I start my bulk in January.

Well, as always, great cardio session man. Keep up the great work, what's ur weight down to now? After my carb and creatine load on Friday, Saturday's weight put me 10lbs lower than 4 weeks ago. Not too bad I suppose, although strength did suffer a little. I'm back to the UD2 though to possibly gain some muscle mass, hell I might even add in a tiny 3 week andro (m1t) cycle to up my strength gains during weekends while I'm on it ;) It's still in the early thought stages though because I really don't wanna spend the money for a pct seeing how I'll do between 30-40mg/day of M1T. But I doubt it'll shut much down in 3 weeks because 20mg/day didn't do much but show massive strength gains:: checking into this more. I may just run the M1T straight for 2 weeks and not worry about a PCT. I dunno yet, as I said, still in the thought process stage.


The amount of cardio you're planning on doing looks solid. I don't know about doing HIIT everyday though. HIIT is like a workout in itself, so on workout days you're doing cardio + a real workout + another "workout"...maybe just stick to HIIT on off days?

I've gone as long as 2 hours before on the treadmill. It's not fun by any means, but I could think of worse things to be doing. I listen to music and get a pretty good view of the rest of the gym. It's quite amusing watching a lot of the people in the gym workout, given their "interesting" form...plus there's always girls to keep me occupied as well :) .

Doing cardio while you bulk is a good idea. It's so easy to get out of shape, especially when you're throwing mass on left and right.

I still haven't weighed myself since the start of the diet because I want to do it when I'm fully carbed up. The only problem is I keep drinking on my refeed days, so I'll be more dehydrated the next day than I should, thus giving a skewed reading. One of these carb-ups maybe I'll stay sober and actually be able to see what kind of progress I've made...then again, maybe not :D.

Vido
11-15-2004, 10:53 PM
Day 20:

Diet:
Cardio
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Meal 2: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Abs + Cardio
Meal 3: 1 scoop whey
Meal 4: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 5: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1184 Protein: 233g


Training:
First Cardio Session: 60 minute incline walk at 12.5 degrees, 4.0 mph
Abs: 3 sets reverse incline crunches, 2 sets weighted static holds, 1 set decline crunches
Second Cardio Session: 8 30-second intervals on the stepper
1 60-second interval on the stepper
1 75-second interval on the stepper

Thoughts: First cardio session sucked, my legs were really tired. Second cardio session was the easiest that's ever been...go figure. That's all.

JSully
11-15-2004, 11:06 PM
Nice cardio session! I'm trying to work my way up to 60 mins on the treadmill. I hit 45 today. Tomorrow I'll try 60 mins, but that'll be difficult because I have legs/back/bis. So I dunno about that cuz high rep squats are gonna kill me.

Frozenmoses
11-15-2004, 11:13 PM
Damn Vido, nice going on the training/diet. How would you compare the taste of dry cottage cheese to... uh, wet cottage cheese?

Vido
11-16-2004, 01:23 AM
Little Jake: Thanks man. I'm sure you'll have no problem hitting the 60 minutes tomorrow.

Frozenmoses: IMO, the hierarchy of cottage cheese tastes goes like this: no salt added "wet" cottage cheese>dry cottage cheese> "wet" cottage cheese. The regular stuff is just way too salty for my liking. If that's not a problem for you, then I'll bet it tastes better than the dry.

ryuage
11-16-2004, 05:13 AM
easy on the cardio big guy.... you're gonna slow your metabolism to a screeching halt!

txterry
11-16-2004, 09:00 AM
Vido, I cannot find DCCC easily so I rinse regular CC in a colander to remove the dressing and most of the sodium.
Nice cardio!

Double D
11-16-2004, 02:56 PM
Damn Vido, nice going on the training/diet. How would you compare the taste of dry cottage cheese to... uh, wet cottage cheese?
From my own personal experience all cottage cheese is disgusting at the beginning. If you're just starting to eat it start with the wet stuff. If you dont like the taste try what I did when i started eating it. Mix gatorade powder with it. I admit that that sounds disgusting, but it kills the flavour. I used orange powder, and gradually cut it back, now i can eat it plain. Also if you like the wet stuff but not the dry, mix the wet stuff in with the dry, to make it tast better.

lilmase1153
11-16-2004, 03:01 PM
Vido your diet and excerises are lookin ace as always bro.. hopefully i can get a 1/10 of the progress you have made thus farr..

Vido
11-16-2004, 03:36 PM
Ryuage: I don't know if you're joking or not because I AM getting a little carried away, but to the best of my knowledge cardio has no NEGATIVE impact on metabolism whatsoever.

Txterry: That sounds like a good plan if you can't find dry cottage cheese...kinda like what you're supposed to do with tuna...I guess it really works for anything with a lot of sodium in it.

Double D: It's weak-ass things like having to put Gatorade in your cottage cheese that are going to leave you smaller than me forever :D.

lilmase: Thanks man. I'm sure your cut will go well and you're going to look like a monster when it's all said and done. If you have any specific questions about it, just shoot them in here or send me a PM.

Mystic Eric
11-16-2004, 04:00 PM
Can I send you a PM????????

Vido
11-16-2004, 05:49 PM
Can I send you a PM????????

Sure, but I'll probably ignore it like I do with 99% of your posts.

Mystic Eric
11-16-2004, 05:51 PM
Sure, but I'll probably ignore it like I do with 99% of your posts.

You don't ignore me when we're together :(

Maki Riddington
11-16-2004, 06:00 PM
You're so gay man. Your life is so pathetic, it consists of flirting with males online. Get a life.

Mystic Eric
11-16-2004, 06:10 PM
You're so gay man. Your life is so pathetic, it consists of flirting with males online. Get a life.

Guy, we also flirt in person and on the phone!!!!!

Maki Riddington
11-16-2004, 09:27 PM
You make me sick to my stomach.

JSully
11-16-2004, 10:45 PM
You're so gay man. Your life is so pathetic, it consists of flirting with males online. Get a life.

LMAO!!!

I hit 60mins on the treadmill tonite. Now I want to die. :(

And it was leg day too.. I hope you're proud!

Vido
11-17-2004, 01:17 AM
You make me sick to my stomach.

Glad to know I'm not the only one.

Vido
11-17-2004, 01:18 AM
LMAO!!!

I hit 60mins on the treadmill tonite. Now I want to die. :(

And it was leg day too.. I hope you're proud!

Way to go man! I'll make sure to keep that in mind the next time I want to quit after 45 minutes :D.

lilmase1153
11-17-2004, 01:49 AM
so how do you think i should change my diet thus far or do you think every 6days refeed is ok and how should i manage my w/os... i dont know if 5 days a week is over doing it on this diet.. thanks for the advice in advance

Vido
11-17-2004, 01:51 AM
so how do you think i should change my diet thus far or do you think every 6days refeed is ok and how should i manage my w/os... i dont know if 5 days a week is over doing it on this diet.. thanks for the advice in advance

I'll post in your journal.

ryuage
11-17-2004, 03:18 AM
Ryuage: I don't know if you're joking or not because I AM getting a little carried away, but to the best of my knowledge cardio has no NEGATIVE impact on metabolism whatsoever.


it has a real BIG impact on metabolism according to studies done apparently after about 3 weeks metabolic slowdown was great on people using a psmf combined with cardio... even though you are using a "modified" psmf I dont know to the extent on which it will effect you... I know lyle doesnt recommend too much if any cardio. You are already in a big deficit as it is... but for some people it helps with hunger or just eases the mind... so whatever floats your boat! just my .02 just dont go overboard/

Double D
11-17-2004, 09:32 AM
hahaha
Those studied may be correct, but by seeing the amount of food that this guy can put away in one sitting it appears to be having no effect on his metabolism. Anyone who can eat pie + 2 meals Dennys or 12 tacos + pie at taco bell in a sitting doesnt have a slow metabolism.

Frozenmoses
11-17-2004, 10:07 AM
They have pie at taco bell?!

Anyway, I read on Bodyrecomp.com that the most metabolic supression is ~30% in starving individuals. That sounds like a lot, but when you're already in a huge caloric deficit, I don't think your metabolism is gonna be catch up with you, especially with that amount of cardio. Hey, but what do I know? I'm still a dieting n00b.

Vido
11-17-2004, 12:30 PM
it has a real BIG impact on metabolism according to studies done apparently after about 3 weeks metabolic slowdown was great on people using a psmf combined with cardio... even though you are using a "modified" psmf I dont know to the extent on which it will effect you... I know lyle doesnt recommend too much if any cardio. You are already in a big deficit as it is... but for some people it helps with hunger or just eases the mind... so whatever floats your boat! just my .02 just dont go overboard/

Interesting. I can't imagine doing a cut without cardio though, even though I'm sure it would be feasible. It's like how LittleJake feels he's getting smaller if he's not working out every day or close to every day...it's all psychological.

In any event, metabolism can only shutdown by 30% tops. If my maintenance is 3K+ cals, and I'm only eating 1200 cals/day, it's going to have the full shutdown anyway (after a period of time, of which I don't know). Thus, any cardio on top of that can't shut it down further, so I don't really see what the problem is. Maybe I'm missing something, but it doesn't seem like that big a deal to me.

Vido
11-17-2004, 12:32 PM
hahaha
Those studied may be correct, but by seeing the amount of food that this guy can put away in one sitting it appears to be having no effect on his metabolism. Anyone who can eat pie + 2 meals Dennys or 12 tacos + pie at taco bell in a sitting doesnt have a slow metabolism.

I don't think hunger and metabolism are directly correlated. As a kid, I was always hungry, and from the looks of old pics of me, I'm pretty sure I didn't have a fast metabolism :confused: .

Vido
11-17-2004, 12:34 PM
They have pie at taco bell?!

Anyway, I read on Bodyrecomp.com that the most metabolic supression is ~30% in starving individuals. That sounds like a lot, but when you're already in a huge caloric deficit, I don't think your metabolism is gonna be catch up with you, especially with that amount of cardio. Hey, but what do I know? I'm still a dieting n00b.

The pie at Taco Bell is amazing! It's like McDonald's pies, except there's caramel in the middle too, mmmmmmmmmmmm.

I'm not totally clear on what you're trying to say. I'm not sure if you agree with Ryuage or what I just responded to him.

Frozenmoses
11-17-2004, 12:52 PM
No, I'm disagreeing with Ryu. I think that a lot of cardio will be beneficial to you, considering that 30% supression is about the max you can acheive. I figure I'll probably be hitting that much supression pretty quickly, so I plan on doing as much cardio as possible to take advantage of my metabolism not being able to catch me.

ryuage
11-17-2004, 01:03 PM
I would do it mainly for psychological benefits as well as it having a hunger curving effect... but hey if you guys dont mind the big drop in metabolic slow down then be my guest.... that's just either a. less fat being burnt b. less food you have to eat or c. more cardio you have to do if you wish to continue...

Vido
11-17-2004, 02:37 PM
I would do it mainly for psychological benefits as well as it having a hunger curving effect... but hey if you guys dont mind the big drop in metabolic slow down then be my guest.... that's just either a. less fat being burnt b. less food you have to eat or c. more cardio you have to do if you wish to continue...

I understand what you're saying, but you're missing the key point. Your metabolism is going to shut down ANYWAY, so the extra cardio is irrelevant, at least from a metabolic standpoint...at least that's my (and Frozenmoses for that matter) argument. The only way to avoid metabolic shutdown on an extreme low calorie diet like this is to refeed all the time (every 3-4 days), kind of like I said I was going to do initially but haven't been following to a T.

ryuage
11-17-2004, 02:58 PM
well then someone needs to stick to their original plan :D

Frozenmoses
11-17-2004, 03:31 PM
Vido, how do you plan on coming off of your diet? I'm not sure how to start reintroducing cals as I begin to bulk. Should I start by just adding 100 cals in carbs/fats for a weekly average, and keep doing that until I get up to my previous maintenance?

Vido
11-17-2004, 04:00 PM
Ryuage: I know :(

Frozenmoses: Well, if your main goal is to prevent regaining the fat that you lost, then I would think the best approach would be as follows: Assume the maximum 30% shutdown. Figure out your new maintenance, based on your new weight (but old metabolism), and then subtract 30% of the calories from that. From here, start adding 100-200 cals/day/week.

Frozenmoses
11-17-2004, 04:01 PM
Cool, much appreciated.

Vido
11-17-2004, 04:38 PM
Days 21 and 22:

Diet: Alright, this was a refeed so I'll just list what I ate, I didn't really have any set meals (this was all day yesterday and until 3 pm today):

3 Oatmeal to go bars
4 large bagels
500g dry pasta + 700mL tomato sauce
15 egg whites
1 scoop whey
Taco Bell: 10 soft beef tacos, 2 1/2lb beef and bean burritos, 1 caramel apple pie :p

I'm not taking the time to figure out cals or protein, carbs were approximately 1100g.


Training:
None yesterday
Power Upper Body workout today (6 sets back, 5 sets chest, 3 sets tris, 2 sets bis, 2 sets traps)


Thoughts:
Well, the "refeed" was cleaner than normal (which I know isn't saying much), but I still might go out tonight so have no fear :D. Taco Bell's a 1.5 hour round trip, but it's well worth it :).

The workout was pretty solid. I don't think I've lost too much strength, at least in back and arms. The chest exercises were a little weak and so were the traps, but I was tired by the time I hit traps so I'll use that as my excuse there.

Vido
11-17-2004, 04:43 PM
Starting weight: 217lbs
Today's carbed up weight: 215lbs

Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb and say that the first measurement wasn't when I was fully carbed-up. I've clearly lost more than 2lbs, and today I definitely felt fully carb-loaded. Obviously I'm not upset at this news whatsoever. I wanted to make sure I didn't go down below 200-205, now I'm thinking 210 will be the absolute lowest I'd hit.

Frozenmoses
11-17-2004, 04:55 PM
That is one hell of a romp at Taco Bell, Vido. Mad Props. I'm stuffed after 3 tacos, I can wrangle 4 if I'm lucky, but you definitely got game.

By the way, how's your DOMS been on PSMF? Mine is already brutal, I haven't been sore like this in a very very long time.

JSully
11-17-2004, 05:46 PM
Damn man, 10 tacos.. jeez... Whenever I go I get 5 Hard Taco's & 2 Chicken Quesadillas. LOL.. MMmmmmm :D


Nice Carb Load!... I'm jealous cuz I can't start mine until tomorrow night... ugh!

Maki Riddington
11-17-2004, 05:47 PM
it has a real BIG impact on metabolism according to studies done apparently after about 3 weeks metabolic slowdown was great on people using a psmf combined with cardio...

Can you post some more info on this, maybe a link?

JSully
11-17-2004, 05:48 PM
That is one hell of a romp at Taco Bell, Vido. Mad Props. I'm stuffed after 3 tacos, I can wrangle 4 if I'm lucky, but you definitely got game.

By the way, how's your DOMS been on PSMF? Mine is already brutal, I haven't been sore like this in a very very long time.

My DOMS are RIDICULOUS. Every week when I do my glyco depletion workouts. I'm HELLA sore the next few days. Lyle said that's to be expected seeing how little to no rest plus high reps = lots of lactic acid buildup and yadda yadda yadda... Well I'm in pain. It hurts just to stand up today.

TheGimp
11-17-2004, 06:16 PM
Damn that refeed sounds awesome :)

Vido
11-17-2004, 08:12 PM
Frozenmoses: I can definitely eat with the best of them :D. To be honest, I actually don't find the DOMS that bad...I use REALLY pussy weights though for 15 reps. My regular routines fall in the 5-8 rep range, and I just really struggle getting to those higher rep ranges. I have to drop the weight very considerably to be able to hit 15; thus, I'm not overly surprised that I'm not that sore.

LittleJake: Not a fan of hard tacos, but I love the quesadillas. Unfortunately, we got shafted with some half-ass drive-thru menu that didn't include half the stuff I wanted :mad:, otherwise that would have made the cut instead of the burritos for sure.

Maki: I'd be interested in seeing those studies as well, as I've never heard of any such ill-effects from cardio.

TheGimp: I quite enjoyed it :)

Vido
11-17-2004, 09:04 PM
My buddy is sitting here eating cottage cheese + vodka...that's hardcore ;)

I skipped the cottage cheese and went straight for the tequila :alcoholic

Frozenmoses
11-17-2004, 10:19 PM
Cottage cheese and vodka? Damn. I did milk and vodka once. That was intense.

JSully
11-17-2004, 10:52 PM
I prefer Kool-Aid/Vodka/Everclear mix. :alcoholic

With 2 JagerBombs in between every glass...

after about 6 glasses, and 12 Jagerbombs... I'm outtie

lilmase1153
11-18-2004, 02:08 AM
nice refeed bro your diet is coming along quite nicely by the way.. and yeah i can proably down like 4-5 tacos but than i get :fart: so i try to stay away from mexican food as much as i can...

JSully
11-18-2004, 05:58 PM
LMAO, today I had 4 soft taco supremes, 2 hard taco supremes, a pepsi, and 2 chicken quesadillas. I coulda had more but spending 13 bux at taco bell was kinda depressing.

Frozenmoses
11-18-2004, 06:06 PM
God, I haven't had mexican food in ages, and all this talk about it is making me crazy. My mom makes the best enchiladas that have ever graced this planet. Give me strength, lawd.

Oh well, Thanksgiving will be here in a week.

F*CK!

Vido
11-18-2004, 07:57 PM
Cottage cheese and vodka? Damn. I did milk and vodka once. That was intense.

That sounds pretty disgusting, lol. I remember the good old days of throwing protein powder into my drinks, thinking it would somehow negate the negative effects of the alcohol...that was quite often fairly gross.

Vido
11-18-2004, 07:58 PM
I prefer Kool-Aid/Vodka/Everclear mix. :alcoholic

With 2 JagerBombs in between every glass...

after about 6 glasses, and 12 Jagerbombs... I'm outtie

I can't stand vodka, but mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm jager...best drink out there.

Vido
11-18-2004, 07:58 PM
nice refeed bro your diet is coming along quite nicely by the way.. and yeah i can proably down like 4-5 tacos but than i get :fart: so i try to stay away from mexican food as much as i can...

lol, I have to say my stomach hasn't quite been the same since hitting Taco Bell. Last night's drinking and binge eating after didn't make matters any better either.

Vido
11-18-2004, 07:59 PM
LMAO, today I had 4 soft taco supremes, 2 hard taco supremes, a pepsi, and 2 chicken quesadillas. I coulda had more but spending 13 bux at taco bell was kinda depressing.

Pussy :p

Vido
11-18-2004, 08:02 PM
God, I haven't had mexican food in ages, and all this talk about it is making me crazy. My mom makes the best enchiladas that have ever graced this planet. Give me strength, lawd.

Oh well, Thanksgiving will be here in a week.

F*CK!

I rarely eat Mexican food, but ever since having fajitas at the Keg a few weeks ago that's the only kind of food I feel like cheating on.

I might have to pretend I'm American and get in on this Thanksgiving feast everyone is talking about :D.

JSully
11-18-2004, 10:57 PM
Pussy :p

:cry:


Fcuker!! :ninja: + :bash: = :whiner:

hahaha... oh well. Yeah I went broke @ Taco Bell and didn't even get filled up... arg!

I want to hit Burger King but I doubt I can afford that either...my food of choice: 2 Double Whoppers w/cheese (mayo, ketchup, tomato, lettuce) 2 king fries, 2 drinks :D But that's a $15 meal.

Vido
11-18-2004, 11:48 PM
I want to hit Burger King but I doubt I can afford that either...my food of choice: 2 Double Whoppers w/cheese (mayo, ketchup, tomato, lettuce) 2 king fries, 2 drinks :D But that's a $15 meal.

I never bother with drinks when I go to these kinds of places...that's just filling up space in your stomach for more food ;).

Vido
11-19-2004, 12:07 AM
Last night was a "tad" overboard. I'm not even totally sure what I drank/ate, but something like a mickey of tequila, a couple shots of jager, multiple beers, 3-4 burgers at McDonald's, and 2 meals at Denny's sounds about right :eek: .

Day 23:

Diet:
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 2: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Cardio
Meal 3: 2 scoops whey
Meal 4: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1039 Protein: 204g


Training:
Cardio: 25 min stepper
7 30-second intervals on the stepper
3 60-second intervals on the stepper


Thoughts:
Well, today was basically a write-off. I'm amazed I actually made it to the gym right before it closed in time to get that cardio in. I basically just moved back and forth between my bed and my computer desk until about 9pm. Last night was as drunk as I've been in a LONG time...just way too gone to function effectively :redface:. After not getting out of bed until early afternoon, I actually didn't feel too bad, but my stomach was just a trainwreck all day. That's why I'm surprised I got the cardio in. I waited as long as possible to try and feel decent, but had to get there before the gym closed. I figured I'd just do fairly low intensity stuff because I didn't think I could handle HIIT, but once I got going I felt good enough to give it a whirl and it actually wasn't that bad.

I want to get this bulk going asap, but nights like that aren't helping things along. I figure it'll take today and tomorrow just to get back to where I was yesterday afternoon. The only redeeming fact from last night is that the bar wasn't that busy (which never happens on a Wednesday night), which just means the semester is winding down and people are writing their papers and looking ahead to finals. That means my days of going out are probably done for a bit, which will definitely help things out in both the rest of this cut and my bulk. I was talking to a friend yesterday and noted to him how much all this partying is probably holding me back. We agreed that I'd probably be a similar weight at like 3-4% less bodyfat, or about 10lbs heavier at the same bodyfat if I took out all the partying since the start of the schoolyear.

Vido
11-19-2004, 12:59 AM
On a brighter note, I got called "disturbingly big" today by some girl. Now that's music to my ears :).

Mystic Eric
11-19-2004, 01:01 AM
On a brighter note, I got called "disturbingly big" today by some girl. Now that's music to my ears :).

Your voice is music to my ears...

ryuage
11-19-2004, 04:48 AM
disturbingly big huh... what was she referring to :D cuz it probably wasnt .... :hump: lol

Double D
11-19-2004, 01:23 PM
[QUOTE=Vido] After not getting out of bed until early afternoon, I actually didn't feel too bad, but my stomach was just a trainwreck all day. That's why I'm surprised I got the cardio in. I waited as long as possible to try and feel decent, but had to get there before the gym closed. I figured I'd just do fairly low intensity stuff because I didn't think I could handle HIIT, but once I got going I felt good enough to give it a whirl and it actually wasn't that bad.
IQUOTE]

That cardio session was great, all things considered. Once you get on that stepper its not all that bad. Its a good thing you motivated me to go, cuz i really needed to get some cardio in, and i cant believe we did HIIT, that was certainly unexpected. Now that the Pit is done for the semester its gonna be all business.

Frozenmoses
11-19-2004, 02:53 PM
You drink like a fish, Vido. Hah, just messin', duder. I wish girls would give me compliments like that. All I hear is "I bet your c*ck is huge"

Frozenmoses
11-19-2004, 03:24 PM
Oh yeah, I had another question about coming off PSMF for you. I know you told me to bump up cals by 100/day/week, but do I need to be doing refeeds too during this?

JSully
11-19-2004, 07:15 PM
Oh yeah, I had another question about coming off PSMF for you. I know you told me to bump up cals by 100/day/week, but do I need to be doing refeeds too during this?

Yes, for about 2 weeks or until you get back up to maintenance cals.

Mystic Eric
11-19-2004, 07:31 PM
Now that the Pit is done for the semester its gonna be all business.

The only thing that is done here is YOU, http://messenger.msn.com/MMM2004-08-11_11.52/Resource/emoticons/77_77.gif!!!!!!!!!!!

Vido
11-19-2004, 11:51 PM
Ryuage: That comment can never be bad, in any way, shape, or form ;).

Double D: I notice that with cardio quite often actually. It's usually more challenging just getting yourself to the gym than it is to actually perform the cardio while you're doing it. Of course, there's some sessions where you just feel awful, but I've been having less and less of those lately. I agree with the comment about the Pit as well (although everyone actually did go out tonight), but all the partying has really been slowing my progress down...it IS all business now.

Frozenmoses: I DO drink like a fish, and that's not a good thing. My tolerance is just way too high now and these nights out are costing far too much. Compliments like that are HUGE...she didn't look nauseous when she was saying it though, so that just means I'm not big enough yet :D.

Eric: More insightful posts by you, I'm glad to have you around.

Vido
11-19-2004, 11:52 PM
Oh yeah, I had another question about coming off PSMF for you. I know you told me to bump up cals by 100/day/week, but do I need to be doing refeeds too during this?

I suppose, but you wouldn't need to eat nearly as much as during the PSMF refeeds.

Vido
11-20-2004, 12:05 AM
Day 24:

Diet:
Cardio
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Meal 2: 170g chicken + a few green beans and carrots
Cardio
Meal 3: 1 scoop whey, 1 can tuna
Meal 4: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil

Calories: 1077 Protein: 210g

Training:
1st cardio session: 3 min incline walk at 12 degrees, 4.0 mph
2 min incline walk at 15 degrees, 4.5 mph
25 min incline walk at 12 degrees, 4.0 mph
15 min incline walk at 12.5 degrees, 4.0 mph
5 min incline walk at 12.5 degrees, 4.1 mph
5 min incline walk at 13 degrees, 4.1 mph
20 min incline walk at 13 degrees, 4.2 mph

2nd cardio session: 35 minute road run
Oh yeah, I forgot I did a bit of abs before this, nothing much: 3 x 15 crunches superset with 30 seconds of "bicycles".


Thoughts:
Just under 2 hours of cardio today :eek:. The first session was really a breeze. I planned to go 60-75 minutes, so obviously when it's that easy I'm going to hit the upper range. I could have realistically seen myself on that treadmill for another 45 minutes, tying my all-time record of 2 hours straight that I did for some unknown reason last year. I think 75 minutes is about as long as I'll go though. I've been lucky to have not lost much muscle, if any, during this cut, so no need to push the limits. I absolutely hate running, but I'm not at school and I didn't want to pay to go do half an hour of cardio. The pace was varied on the run, but overall it was fairly casual.

Well, Friday night and sitting at home doing homework...this is the new me for the rest of the semester. (Well, I'm going out tomorrow night, but not clubbing.) I still haven't decided when this cut is going to end, but the end isn't far off...although I've been saying that for a week now.

JSully
11-20-2004, 11:13 AM
Vido: are you planning on a "cyclical supplemented" bulk as I am doing ;), or a good 'ol fashioned natural bulk?

And for how long?

Maki Riddington
11-20-2004, 02:56 PM
Good work on the cardio Vido, I'm attemtping at doing at least 15 minutes after my workouts. It's all I can do, simply because I detest cardio.

Lol Eric. Try posting now.

Frozenmoses
11-20-2004, 03:23 PM
I'm with Maki. Cardio is teh ultimate suck.

Clark Kent
11-20-2004, 06:30 PM
Hey Vido, i am happy to hear that you have put on such a large amount of weight.
but is all binge eatting at fast food resturants necessary? 8 macdonalds bugers in one sitting???? I hope you get your blood pressure checked regularly because i dont want to be the one doing cpr when you have a heart attack

Vido
11-21-2004, 07:55 AM
LittleJake: au natural, and probably for a good chunk of time...I'm thinking the end of February. If I start feeling really messy, or things get out of control over the holidays or something, I'll throw a week of PSMF in there just to right the ship a bit.

Maki: Thanks, my cardiovascular conditioning has definitely improved over the course of this little cut. 15 minutes is better than nothing, but it's all about discipline and will power, two traits I seem to possess more strongly on some days than others but...I mean seriously, I can't think of anyone I know who actually ENJOYS cardio, it's just something you have to do. And LOL at Eric.

Frozenmoses: I really don't like cardio either. It may seem like this isn't the case from how much I do, but it's really a matter of 2 things. On a cut like this, I just want it to be over with as soon as possible. Thus, the bigger the calorie deficit each day, the quicker this happens. You'll see when I begin a bulk soon here that I continue to do a fair amount of cardio (not nearly as much as now, but still a solid 3-4 sessions/week as long as I'm dialed in). In this case, it's two-fold: 1) it means I can eat more and 2) I find that it's incredibly easy to lose cardiovascular fitness as one is increasing bodyweight. I seem to throw weight on pretty easy, and gaining 10lbs in a month or two can make even the simplest things, like climbing a flight of stairs, exceedingly difficult.

Clark Kent: Hey good to hear from you buddy! I hope things are going well for you out east. The binge eating is definitely not necessary, nor is it remotely healthy. You'll notice that most of the binges though come after a night of drinking, so I'm not exactly at full mental capacity when making those decisions...that doesn't make it right, it's just an explanation.

Vido
11-21-2004, 08:13 AM
Day 25:

Diet:
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 3g fish oil
Meal 2: 1 scoop whey
Workout
Meal 3: 1 scoop whey, 2 cups Kashi Go Lean cereal
Meal 4: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese
Meal 5: Teriyaki burger and fries (Knight and Day restaurant)
Meal 6: 2 cans tuna, 2 tbsp olive oil

Calories: 1690 + restaurant meal Protein: 203g + restaurant meal


Training:
Shoulders: 2 x 10 sets lateral raises, 3 x 10 sets wide grip upright rows
Tris: 3 x 10 sets close-grip bench, 2 x 10 sets overhead extensions, 1 dropset pressdowns (9, 8)
Bis: 1 x 6, 1 x 12 straight bar curls, 1 x 10 cable curls, 1 x 9 preacher curls
Tris and Bis were supersetted for the most part.


Thoughts:
Ok, that's it, I'm calling it here. I'm "lean enough" to start bulking, given it's the middle of November. I don't think I'd be rushing to the beach topless at this point if it were summer, but I'm good enough. I have to plan my split and I'll do that tomorrow, so today I just hit arms because aside from hitting them a bit in the depletion workout, I hadn't worked them directly since summer. It felt good, and it also helped me figure out what kind of weights I'll be pushing around, given that I plan to incorporate them back into my bulking routine.

I'm basically just assuming my metabolism hasn't changed much, given that I haven't really done any long PSMF cycles. I'll start conservative with my bulking calories (probably around 4K), but will increase them quite quickly as long as everything is running smoothly. This will start on Tuesday, when I "officially" begin bulking. Tomorrow (well today I guess seeing as I'm still up and writing this at 7am...hey, look the sun is rising :eek: ) I plan on doing some cardio, maybe even 2 sessions, and keeping the cals fairly low still (2500-3000). Monday, I will do abs and HIIT, and also eat about 3K cals before I switch into heavy bulking mode on Tuesday.

Today's workout felt pretty good, although it was kind of rushed. The eating was pretty suspect as there was about 13 hours between meals 4 and 6. I had that cottage cheese at about 5pm before heading out for the night with a buddy and a couple of girls, the restaurant meal was at around midnight, and the tuna finally hit my throat at just after 6am. I have to pat myself on the back though for not getting something outrageous at the restaurant. I can't remember the last time I ate that little food while out :D.

Frozenmoses
11-21-2004, 12:37 PM
Vido, I know that light-headedness and nausea are to be expected while working out on PSMF, but what about while resting? Last night I was just sitting around with my buddy and I felt a wave of sickness come over me and I thought I was gonna pass out. I assumed it was my body screaming at me to get some carbs so I took in 75 g of dextrose. Should I be refeeding more often or what?

Vido
11-21-2004, 01:34 PM
Frozenmoses, I'm sure it's possible. It sounds like your case was quite a bit more severe than mine, but I remember one day (and one day only) where I did cardio in the morning, felt light-headed during it, and never really recovered for the entire day...I spent the whole day lying on the couch. I never really felt the nausea though, and I certainly never felt like passing out.

I'll say this though. At least in my case, the side effects you're mentioning really seem to go away after a few cycles of the diet...I actually remember that happening on UD2 as well. In fact, I haven't had feelings of light-headedness (even while working out) in a couple of weeks now. The only thing I've really noticed recently, which actually played a large role in my decision to start bulking, is I've been having difficulties sleeping.

Back to you though, how often are refeeding and what day of the low cal cycle did this happen on?

Frozenmoses
11-21-2004, 05:01 PM
I had originally planned to refeed once every 9 days as I assumed my bodyweight to be somewhere between 15 and 20%. This happened on the 5th day of the low cal cycle. I'll get my roommate to take some pics, maybe there's a chance I'm below 15% (which I highly doubt, maybe you can offer your opinion as to where I'm around).

Vido
11-21-2004, 06:36 PM
I really don't know what to say. It's not like having 75g of carbs is going to ruin the whole diet, so as long as you're feeling better now, I'd just continue as planned. The diet isn't easy by any means both psychologically and physiologically, but it works...it's a trade-off.

Frozenmoses
11-21-2004, 06:43 PM
Cool, I'm not sweating the carbs I took in or anything. I guess I'm gonna continue to try and stick it out til my refeed I had scheduled. And I still lost weight overnight, so I guess it was no big deal to boost glycogen a bit.

Vido
11-21-2004, 06:44 PM
Ok, I've got the bulking split for now...this is only for 6 weeks, then I'll switch things up. I figure I'll just keep this journal going, it's more helpful than I thought, and there's no need to start a new one.

Monday: abs/HIIT
Tuesday: back/tris/traps
Wednesday: chest/bis/shoulders
Thursday: legs
Friday: off
Saturday: back/tris/traps
Sunday: chest/bis/shoulders/calves

Aside from the HIIT, no cardio is scheduled in, but I'll throw it in there when I feel like it. I'm trying to work more in the "hypertrophy range" in these workouts, as I've typically done lower reps, so I'm just trying something new. I'm not overly concerned with strength anyway, nor have I ever been. There's quite a few muscle groups being worked on each day, but I'm only doing 8 sets for legs, 5-6 sets for chest and back, 4-5 for arms, 2 for shoulders, and 2 for traps, so the overall volume isn't "that" high, especially compared to a lot of you guys.

Vido
11-21-2004, 06:46 PM
Cool, I'm not sweating the carbs I took in or anything. I guess I'm gonna continue to try and stick it out til my refeed I had scheduled. And I still lost weight overnight, so I guess it was no big deal to boost glycogen a bit.

75g of dextrose is only 300 calories or so, so clearly you were still in a deficit.

Vido
11-21-2004, 07:43 PM
Day 26:

Diet:
Cardio
Meal 1: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 2 tbsp anpb, 1 tbsp olive oil, 3g fish oil
Meal 2: 200g trout + veggies
Meal 3: 170g chicken + veggies
Meal 4: 1 can tuna + 2 tbsp olive oil
Meal 5: 1/2 tub dry cottage cheese, 2 tbsp anpb, 3g fish oil

Calories: 2100

Training:
Cardio: 15 min incline walk at 13 degrees, 4.0 mph
15 min incline walk at 14 degrees, 4.0 mph
7 min incline walk at 15 degrees, 4.2 mph
3 min incline walk at 15 degrees, 4.0 mph
15 min incline walk at 13 degrees, 4.0 mph


Thoughts:
After going to bed so late, I didn't wake up until early afternoon, so I kind of got a late start on the day. I thought about a second cardio session, but the gym closes early and I had a stomach ache when I would have had to go. Also, cardio outside later is out because it's raining. Call me a pussy, but I already hate running outside so rain is a good enough excuse for me to stay inside :).

The cardio session wasn't bad for the most part, but when I peaked at 15 degrees, 4.2mph it was getting pretty difficult. Cals were a little low, but I'm trying to squeeze out the last little bit of fat loss I can here before I start eating heavy in a couple of days.

Watched the Grey Cup. That was a snoozer, especially after last week's game, which was one of the best I've ever seen, but at least the Lions lost. I hate sports teams from this province. Another $#%@ty day in my football pool as well. At least the 'Hawks pulled out the late win against the uhhhhh, Dolphins...I thought these guys were supposed to contend for the 'Bowl this year :confused:.

Vido
11-21-2004, 07:47 PM
Oh yeah, I have ridiculous tri DOMS today as well. Actually, my whole body's kind of sore, I really don't know why...well everything except bis, those never get sore. I know DOMS has nothing to do with growth, but it is odd that my bis are my worst bodypart and coincidentally, the only one that never gets sore.

lilmase1153
11-21-2004, 10:53 PM
sounds like you had a good cardio session.. and i know what you mean about bi's there my worst part and barely ever get sore..

JSully
11-21-2004, 11:25 PM
My bis never get sore either. hrmm

Nice cardio session!