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Sackattack
11-06-2001, 07:22 PM
If I were to need to consume 3500 calories on a day of intense weightlifting during a bulking phase, how many calories(percentage wise) would I need to consume on a moderate cardio day? How many on a full day of rest/recovery? The principle behind this is to reduce the overall amount of fat gain.

First of all, I know you are all going to ask;"Why are you doing cardio during bulking?" Simple, I need to keep my heart healthy and stay in the habit of doing cardio for my cutting phase.

Second, I don't want to hear:"Keep your calories the same," unless you have a way to prove that I burn more sitting on my butt for a day than going all out with deadlifts.

Finally, I don't want a response from Tryska or Cackerot69 on this post. I'm sure you will both read it and realize that this is my first post, but I've been reading WBB for nearly 7 months and one thing is for certain, the quality of your responses is inversely proportional to the quantity of said responses.

Alex.V
11-06-2001, 07:32 PM
Well, in terms of overall calories burned, you still want to be above maintenance on rest days. How much depends... What I think the key factor would be is the nature of these calories; eating foods that facilitate your workouts. Say your maintenance calories are 3000; I'd say do the following:

Eat around 3600-3700 on lifting days, the extra 600-700 consisting of 2/3 carbs, 1/3 protein. Glucose to fuel anaerobic activity, protein to offset the aminos lost during exercise. This is assuming your workout burns around 300-400 calories.

On cardio days, eat about 300 more calories than your cardio claims to be burning. Again, same ratio. Depending on cardio intensity, change the macros. (Higher intensity, like wind sprints, etc., and you should up the carbs).

Rest days, 3300-3400 is fine.

The numbers may seem a bit arbitrary, but 300-400 calories above daily activity is fine for muscle gain, and provided you're workout out hard enough, you won't be packing up much fat. It's so highly individual, though. Finding your personal intake takes a long time.

I completely understand doing cardio while bulking. I'd recommend it to most people unless they're having trouble gaining weight.

Marcel
11-06-2001, 08:30 PM
What Belial said :cool: and don't get too fat!

Sackattack
11-07-2001, 12:00 AM
Belial,
I appreciate your input. I'm extremely happy that you did not attempt to belittle my question like I see done so often to other members.

One thing I don't understand is your point about increasing calories on lifting days in the ratios you mentioned. Shouldn't the ratios stay the same as in the rest of my diet as 40% carb, 30% fat, 30% protein? It is my understanding that fat is essential to tissue growth and repair. By cutting that out of the "extra" calories wouldn't I be, in essence, wasting them by not letting them be utilized for their full potential?

I like the point you made about caloric intake on cardio days. I think we see eye to eye in that category.

I'm also a little confused on the rest day intake. Is that just to make sure my body is fully recovered for the next workout?

Alex.V
11-07-2001, 12:19 AM
Well, since you're not dieting, it's fairly safe to assume that with a 40-30-30 ratio you're taking in plenty of fat for tissue repair, hormone regulation, etc. The required amount of fat for these activities is likely a good deal lower.

On workout days, I personally feel it's important that the extra calories be designed specifically for the activity that you're doing; the food is used to fuel the workouts, prevent catabolism, and essentially compensate for everything that's being taken OUT of your system. There's no harm in adding extra fat, but it's not necessary.

Like I said, especially if you're trying to prevent excess fat gain, I'd rather see the additional calories you take in be specifically tailored to the kind of activity you're doing. While lifting, you're burning a negligible amount of fat; you're running on glycogen and some aminos. Your body needs carbs before and after to fuel the activity, and the extra protein to repair. Fat is essential, but it's not as "activity-specific".

On rest days, your system is still recovering from lifting. The trauma done to your muscles by a heavy workout lingers for a while; how long depends on the particular muscle worked, the type of stress (heavy eccentric movements create more microtears, and require more recovery), etc. So even on your rest day, provided that you've lifted at least once in the last week or so, your body is still repairing damage and growing new muscle tissue. This requires extra calories, so if you were eating maintenance calories while trying to repair, you'd probably LOSE weight.

Wizard
11-07-2001, 02:50 AM
Originally posted by Sackattack

First of all, I know you are all going to ask;"Why are you doing cardio during bulking?" Simple, I need to keep my heart healthy and stay in the habit of doing cardio for my cutting phase.

Second, I don't want to hear:"Keep your calories the same," unless you have a way to prove that I burn more sitting on my butt for a day than going all out with deadlifts.

Finally, I don't want a response from Tryska or Cackerot69 on this post. I'm sure you will both read it and realize that this is my first post, but I've been reading WBB for nearly 7 months and one thing is for certain, the quality of your responses is inversely proportional to the quantity of said responses.

First
No one asked.I wouldn't either ask you,because I tend to do cardio even when I'm bulking. :)

Second
In the off days,reduce your caloric intake by 500calories.You won't have a postworkout meal in these days so it's easy.In addition I suggest you to avoid consuming any simple sugars.Many individuals don't care about their sugar and/or fat intake while bulking but I'm against it.I understood that you believe the same with me.

I would also suggest you to drop some fat intake.The 30% of your daily caloric intake is coming from fat.@3500 calories this means ~116grams of fat,which are more than adequate to meat what your hormones(test) need to be in a good balance.If you want,try to reduce it to 20-25%,at least in the training days,where you need more carbs.In the off days,where you should reduce your caloric intake by 500cals as I metioned before,you will have to drop some carbs.(the postworkout simple sugars).

Third
Anyone and I mean anyone who is a member here and has an opinion and wants to post it here,is able to do it.If you don't want other member's opinions to be seen to you,you can try to use the ignore list but there is no way that we can force a member not to post here.

Sackattack
11-07-2001, 07:10 PM
Belial,

Thanx for the clarification. Much appreciated.

I'm not even going to entertain a response to Wizard.

Wizard
11-08-2001, 03:59 AM
:cry:
You hurt my feelings...

Buhahahaha...

YatesNightBlade
11-08-2001, 08:54 AM
Hey SackAttack .... why don't you want Tryska Or Cackrot answering ??? Both are informative posters here. tuttut

Wizard
11-08-2001, 09:04 AM
Because he got high...

Don't speak to him.He may not even want you to post in his thread as he did with me.He should appreciate that someone posts his opinion in order to help him.

Tryska
11-08-2001, 09:07 AM
true. i mean, he's right though... i might have just come into this post, called him an assface, and left.

smalls
11-08-2001, 02:15 PM
Sackattack,
your kind of an assface.
*leaves*