Chris, Paul, Cobra....

[Chris Rodgers]

I already mentioned something about this to Chris, but for you other guys, I want help in designing a powerlifting program. I know you guys are into powerlifting and know your stuff, so I addressed it to you. Here are my current stats:

21 years old
5'7"
156 lbs(today, highest ever)
training 3+ years, no serious PL
lifts:
squat-245x1
bench-200x1
deadlift-345x1


I was going to continue my current routine until May, but have changed my mind. I will stay on this routine until Friday 3/2 when I will test my deadlift max. I will then test my bench max on Mon 3/5 and squat on 3/7. I will rest the rest of that week and atrt my new PL routine on Mon 3/12. The following are some of the guidelines I would like this routine to follow:

4 days per week-M,W,F,SA
I would like 2 bench/assistance days
2 squat/dead days

Thats about it. Other than that I'm taking suggestions from you guys. I'm eating like a horse, so calories and nutrients are sufficient for recovery and gains. I want your opinions on techniques, exercises, reps, etc. I was thinking of using a dynamic day, like Westside, and a max effort day. Any info is appreciated. I want this routine to be solidified by the time 3/12 comes, so all I have to do is lift and not think about it. Thanks in advance.:)

[The Cobra]

I sent you a periodization routine. It's far too long to be posted here. Check your email, tell me what you think.

[chris mason]

I don't think you want my opinion on this subject. It looks like you are looking for something more along the lines of what Cobra sent you. If you do want it, realize it won't vary much from what I normally suggest.

[Chris Rodgers]

Chris- Why wouldn't I want your opinion?


Cobra- I sent you an email, I couldn't read what you sent me. Help me out if you can.

[Paul Stagg]

I think a good beginning PL routine is going to be a basic lifting routine.

I wouldn't focus so much on periodization at first, but instead focus on your form, and focus on progression on the 3 lifts.

I think it is a good idea to keep your rep ranges a little high (6-12) to start, and work the reps down to triples, etc, closer to a meet.

Westisde stuff is more for an advanced lifter, IMHO.

[chris mason]

Latman, it seemed to me that you were looking for some kind of magic bullet fix of a powerlifting routine. If I am wrong, sorry. O.k., Paul is generally correct in his statements. The principles of building strength are the same whether you are powerlifting or not. Your body and the principles of physiology don't change. Now, if you want to compete at powerlifting then form is very important. I think most people believe that a powerlifter trains differently in order to get strong. This is not the case. Form and technique play as large a role in the strength of powerlifters as anything. So, if you want to powerlift the first obvious thing is that you must bench, squat, and deadlift. You should also limit other exercises to the supplementary exercises for those lifts. In other words, if you notice that your triceps are weak in the bench press, you should do some supplementary exercises for the triceps. Bicep training is obviously not necessary. You want to concentrate on the big three lifts and put the majority of your recovery ability to those exercises. Ab training etc. is only necessary (and smart) if it is a weak point in your big three lifts. Training your lats is only necessary if they are limiting you in your other lifts. I suggest you start with the big three lifts exclusively and then determine where you need help from there. As far as form goes, let me give you an example. If you have strong tris and delts, but a relatively weak chest, then you must take a narrower grip on the bench. If you are able to arch your back quite a bit on the bench, you will enlist the help of the lats in the lift. You get the idea. Fred Hatfield has some good book out which discuss form with regards to the big three lifts. I would train with each exercise once per week (if your recovery allows twice that is ok as the more often you train, the quicker you will progress assuming recovery). If your lower back gets overworked by doing heavy deads and squats in the same week, you could rotate them every other week. On the deadlift week, perform heavy leg press for the legs.

[Chris Rodgers]

Thanks Chris. No I was not looking for a magic bullet, just a way to train for power and not for showy muscles. What you wrote makes sense, except I forgot to mention that I train at home and don't own a leg press. The squat/deadlift dilemna is something I'm unsure of. The deadlift is obviously my best lift and my squat is extrememly week. I was thinking of starting out squatting every week and perhaps deadlifting once every 3 weeks. I was thinking of trying this for the first 12 weeks(4 dead workouts) and if my dead progresses every workout, I'll stay with it. This way, I won't have any reason to not progress on squats from lower back soreness. In the next few days I'll put together a routine and post it on this thread. I'll then ask you guys to critique it. Over the next 1-2 years I want to keep training for power and see where it takes me. I know the juniors division goes to 23 and I'm 21 now. If I think I have a chance to compete, I want to do it before I hit the Open division. I would mosty likely only compete if I could make the 165's, nothing higher. Those are strong mofos! Thanks again guys:)

[Chris Rodgers]

Ok here's what I put together. I would like some advice on the 2 push days.


Mon- Bench/assistance day
Wed-Squat/deadlift day
Fri-Bench/assistance day


Mon
1.Heavy chest press(Flat,Incline or dips)-warmups, 3x1-8
2.Heavy ext.(lying or overhead)-warmup, 2x6-10
3.Laterals(front, side or rear delt)-warmup, 2x10-12

Wed
1.squat(deadlift every 3-4 weeks)-warmups, 3x1-8
2.Sldl(when not deadlifting)-warmup, 1x8-12
3.supinated chins or bb row-warmup, 2x5-8
4.grip work
5.ab work

Fri
I'm up for suggestions for this workout. Basically I notice most PLers like to do a lot of Triceps. I was thinking of starting this day with heavy close grips. Maybe thinking of trying explosive benches at 50-60% of my max to build speed. Maybe some militaries. Any suggestions?


Basically, I'm going to take one major press on Monday and use it for three weeks, increasing weight each week. I will then switch to the next exercise and so on and so forth. My squats should progress for 2-3 weeks straight, then I'll deadlift, then go back to the squats. I plan on adding at least 10lbs per deadlift session because they will be spaced out so much. I will sometimes train with 8's, 5's, 3's and even singles. Ok, rip my routine apart now.

[Paul Stagg]

I wouldn't do that.

You are a beginner PLer, right?

Stick with a more traditional strength training program that incorporates all of the lifts, and then design the rest of the program to supplement the work on those lifts.

Something like this:

Monday
Squat
Leg press
SLDL
Leg curl
calf raises

Focus onthe squat and SLDL primarily, but keep the other stuff.

Wednesday
Bench
Incline
OH press
Lateral raise
CG bench
OH extension

Again, keep the extra stuff, but focus on the bench and CG bench.

Friday
Deadlift
Chin
Row
Shrug
Curl

Yet again, keep your focus on the deadlift.

I would spend about half of my workout time on the 1 or two main movements, and do the rest of the movements very heavy, but fewer sets.

For example, for your bench day, I might suggest:

Chest 5x5 or 5x8 Not including warmups!
Incline 2x8
OH press 2x8
Lateral raise 1x8
CG bench 3x8
Oh ext 2x8

Have someone check your form. A competition bench press is quite different from what most of us do in the gym.

As you progress, and get closer to a meet (say 3-4 months away), I'd change this to less ancillary work, and more work on the basics and the assistance stuff... sticking to the 3 lifts, and then focusing on lower back and triceps, and limiting the other stuff.

[Chris Rodgers]

Paul-I am new to powerlifting, but I am not new to lifting. I pretty much know what my weaknesses are and where I need to improve. The volume you suggested is quite high for me. Would those sets you suggested be at or near failure? I would definitely burn out with that.

[Joe Black]

Paul,

I know this split is PL'ing based but could someone like myself do it as a normal bb routine..

I am obviously looking for mass and like basising my routine around the big exericses..

I am looking to change to a new routine in about 6 weeks I think

Would your one be any good for me and would the rep ranges for the other days be similuar to what you suggested above ?

I REALLY like the look of that...

I want to get strong on dead and squat as I know its gonna make me big :)

[The Cobra]

Bench once a week. Hit it hard, then don't touch it again till next week. That routine I sent you is absolutely fantastic, I really suggest you give it a shot.

[Paul Stagg]

Good questions -

Cobra, I'd love to see the routine you sent.

"Paul-I am new to powerlifting, but I am not new to lifting. I pretty much know what my weaknesses are and where I need to improve. The volume you suggested is quite high for me. Would those sets you suggested be at or near failure? I would definitely burn out with that."

Certainly, you can change the routine around to work on your weaknesses. I would not train the bench, squat, or dead to failure, no. I would train it hard, and I would be progressive. Other stuff, yes. If the volume looks high, drop it a little.

"I know this split is PL'ing based but could someone like myself do it as a normal bb routine.. "

Sure.

"Would your one be any good for me and would the rep ranges for the other days be similuar to what you suggested above ?"

Sure.

"I REALLY like the look of that... "

Then use it.

"I want to get strong on dead and squat as I know its gonna make me big"

Sure will.

I've use a routine very similar to this one and gained size and strength. It is a version of one of my two favorite routines.

[Chris Rodgers]

Originally posted by The Cobra
Bench once a week. Hit it hard, then don't touch it again till next week. That routine I sent you is absolutely fantastic, I really suggest you give it a shot.


I would love to take a look at the routine you sent me, but I can't figure it out still. Just looks all jumbled.:(

[Chris Rodgers]

Bump for PowermanDL. I want to hear your opinions. :)

[Anthony]

You're going down, boy.

[Chris Rodgers]

LMAO! You and Cack are dreamers! Good luck to both of you!

[Chris Rodgers]

Ok, here's how the next 4 weeks will go. BTW, I'm looking to hit a new max in 17 weeks. That is when Anthony, Cack and I will post our lifts.


Monday-Chest, delts
1.Incline Bench Press-warmups, 3x5
2.Flat db press-warmup, 2x5
3.Front laterals-warmups, 2x8

Wednesday-Back/Legs
1.Squats(4th week deads)-warmups, 3x5
2.2nd week only-power rack deads-warmups, 3x3
3.Supinated chins-warmup, 2x6
4.Grip work


Friday-Triceps
1.Close-grips-warmups, 3x3
2.OH db ext-warmup, 2x8
3.Ab work


I will keep the same split, but change the exercises and reps a bit after the first 4 weeks.

[The Cobra]

Good luck. I have a feeling you may realize that the triceps work on Fri is gonna eat into your bench bigtime. You may wanna move it a day forward to Thurs.

[PowerManDL]

Originally posted by LATMAN
Bump for PowermanDL. I want to hear your opinions. :)


Ok. If you're just starting out PLing, I'd definitely have to say stick with a "basic" program, such as the ones that have been outlined. I don't see any problems with any of them, so just find one that suits you and start to build some strength and find your form.

One side note, however--- despite what others have said, I feel that a strong core is absolutely essential for success in PL. This means that you need to work your abs and lower back hard. If you've got access to a reverse hyper machine or a glute-ham bench, by all means do at least one if not both. Look into an exercise called "Russian Twists" for the abs.

Also, I'd use 8's and occasional 5's as my main working sets on the core lifts-- this will condition you to start handling heavier weights; specificity, if you will. I traditionally leave the 10+ rep sets for de-loading or hypertrophy periods.

For assistance work, use these guidelines (in order of importance):

Bench-- Triceps, Front Delts, Lats, Forearms

Deadlifts-- Spinal Erectors, Glutes/Hams, Abs

Squat-- Glutes/Hams, Spinal Erectors, Abs

Though I don't recommend using Westside until you've been PLing at least 6 months, you would do well to read Louie and Dave's articles; they have excellent advice on the form in the main lifts, as well as advice for assistance work and "weakness-targeting" exercises that can be incorporated into a "standard" program.

I would give you my program, but depending on the time of year its either a Westside routine or a modified strongman program that incorporates PL, OL, and even a little bodybuilding.... neither fit for a novice powerlifter.

All the best,

PowerMan DL

[Chris Rodgers]

First off, I just want to say thanks to those who took the time to respond with their 2 cents.


Enough of the jibber-jabber, I'm not going with any of the routines described above. I have nailed down a 3 day routine with the help of an undisclosed source(Thanks again man:D). The routine is very basic, as most of you suggested I stick with. It is top secret for now because I don't want my competition to know my plans ;). I started the routine today and the first day went quite well! Thanks again.