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heathj
11-10-2001, 01:52 PM
Last week or so of dieting and I want to lose as much water weight as possible and become more vascular. What kind of diet do I need for this? Can anyone help me out?

Wizard
11-10-2001, 02:06 PM
High protein/med fat/low carbs...

heathj
11-10-2001, 02:10 PM
So if I wanted like 1600 calorie diet for the last week. I would do something like:

200g protein
60g fat
65g carbs

?

50% protein
33.75% fat
16.25% carbs

??

The_Chicken_Daddy
11-10-2001, 02:13 PM
Blackie, can i ask why you gave that advice please?

Wizard
11-10-2001, 02:14 PM
Yo,that's it!

The_Chicken_Daddy
11-10-2001, 02:16 PM
So you are telling him to go onto reduced carbs so that he can carb load for the last two days?

Wizard
11-10-2001, 02:20 PM
1.He will get rid of the excess water.(under the skin)
2.He will be able to carb up(as you said) in the last 1-2 days and look more vascular and pumped.

Don't forget to restrict your sodium intake.

heathj
11-10-2001, 02:30 PM
should I count my postworkout drink in these numbers? Cause that alone is like 40g protein / 70g carbs...

The_Chicken_Daddy
11-10-2001, 02:33 PM
Rememeber that as you carb load drink lots of water to push it into your muscle cells.


Wine will help vascularity like i said on MSN.

Wizard
11-10-2001, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by heathj
should I count my postworkout drink in these numbers? Cause that alone is like 40g protein / 70g carbs...

Of course you should include it!

As chigs said,wine and precisely red wine will give you a great pumped look!
You can also take some potassium and magnesium.

heathj
11-10-2001, 02:40 PM
Yeah well if I count it then that means I can't have any more carbs the whole day....

Wizard
11-10-2001, 02:47 PM
I'm sorry!!... :(
It may be better though... :D

heathj
11-10-2001, 03:05 PM
What should I eat instead of having my regular postworkout shake?

Wizard
11-10-2001, 03:21 PM
Keep the same ingredients,just lower the carbs..

heathj
11-10-2001, 03:22 PM
I can't cause it's pre-mixed.

Wizard
11-10-2001, 03:24 PM
Hm.. have the half of it before the workout to fuel it with some carbs and the rest after workout.Does it have malto?

heathj
11-10-2001, 04:03 PM
Yes, all the carbs are is malto. Well, this is what it is. I guess I could take out 28g carbs... It's a mixture of 25% hydro520, 25% cfm whey isolate, 50% malto. I add another 28g scoop of malto. Tastes like ****, but has the right stuff. Making ~42g protein/70g carbs. I guess I could try making it 42g protein/42g carbs..? Or is that still too many....I have 10 lbs. of just whey isolate also, which has 4-5g carbs per scoop. I could use that, but then what would I use for carbs....I have 5 lbs. of this postworkout mix, 5 lbs. malto, 10 lbs. whey isolate, 1 lb. l-glutamine, 2-3 lbs. creatine... :)

Wizard
11-10-2001, 04:21 PM
The perfect combination would be to avoid the malto before workout and have a complex carb of lower GI with the isolate and then after workout some hydro and cfm with malto.(the shake you mentioned before)

The_Chicken_Daddy
11-10-2001, 05:47 PM
If you just had a complex source like oatmeal with whey postworkout you'd be super - smashing - great.

it would keep your fuller for longer and would give a more sustained energy.

Jane
11-10-2001, 06:29 PM
wait i thought it was better to have high GI carb postworkout with whey? not oatmeal?

Alex.V
11-10-2001, 06:41 PM
Yes Jane, that's right.

Wizard
11-11-2001, 02:30 AM
As I had said once upon a time,it's better for a faster recovery but while you're on low calories and thus your hunger is threefold,I admit the purpose of what Chigs said :it would keep your fuller for longer and would give a more sustained energy..

The_Chicken_Daddy
11-11-2001, 05:44 AM
Originally posted by Jane
wait i thought it was better to have high GI carb postworkout with whey? not oatmeal?

Better? Maybe.

Necessary? No.


In the lad's situation i reckon it's prolly better to choose the oatmeal, since if he has the malto post train that is all he can have for the rest of the day carb-wise.

However, if he did opt for malto, then i would suggest cooking up some green veg to try and fill him up and try to prevent hunger cravings.

heathj
11-11-2001, 03:10 PM
Sinep was talking about how I should do CKD for this week..but..??? Anyway, how's this..good, bad..suggestions..The main purpose of this of course, would for me to lose water weight and take pics on Saturday.


Monday -
Take in a lot of water and sodium
Have at least 1g vitamin c per day

meal 1 -
three whole eggs
four pills hydroxycut

13.5g fat/3g carb/18g protein/210 cals

post workout -
one tsp creatine
two scoops protein
one tsp l-glutamine
1/4 cup oatmeal

1.5g fat/15.5g carb/42.5g protein/275 cals

meal 2 -
one can tuna

7.5g fat/0g carbs/30g protein/200 cals


meal 3 -
two scoops protein

0g fat/2g carbs/40g protein/200 cals

meal 4 -
four tbsp peanut butter

24g fat/30g carbs/16g protein/380 cals

meal 5 -
200g turkey

3g fat/5g carbs/25g protein/200 cals

total:
49.5g fat/55.5g carbs/171.5g protein/1465 cals


Tuesday -

Cut back on water and take out sodium

Wednesday -

Same as Tuesday

Thursday -

Cut off all water intake, except when necessary

Thursday night & Friday -

Add in 300-400g carbs

Friday night -

Eat lots of grapes

Wizard
11-11-2001, 03:17 PM
Hm..

1.Meal 4 is not adequate.Lower the fat and have some good protein.
2.Creatine with L-glutamine?Worthless.. -Why?-Well,@ first it's not optimal to combine the two supps and then the creatine is wasted without carbs.(you can use ALA or vanadyl but you need more the L-glutamine.
3.Meal 3:Add a teaspoon of flaxseed oil.
4.Grapes?You can try something better,but for the moment try to fix this week's diet and then you can focus on the carb-up.

heathj
11-11-2001, 03:23 PM
So you would suggest not taking creatine unless I have enough carbs for it? So I should not take it at all this week?

Wizard
11-11-2001, 03:27 PM
Right.. and save it for the carb up day.

heathj
11-11-2001, 03:28 PM
meal 1 -
three whole eggs
four pills hydroxycut

post workout -
two scoops protein
one tsp l-glutamine
1/4 cup oatmeal

meal 2 -
one can tuna

meal 3 -
two scoops protein
one tsp flax

meal 4 -
two tbsp peanut butter
one scoop protein

meal 5 -
200g turkey


Look good? What else should I add or take out...and what should I eat the night before in particular? When I carb load, do I start to drink a lot of water again, or still keep it minimal?

Wizard
11-11-2001, 03:40 PM
Now it's better.
You don't need any other supp for this week's diet plan.

You'll need though for the carb up:
Potassium:5X99mg
Magnesium:400mg
ALA:600mg
Creatine:10gr
Vit C:2-3gr
MultiVit,high in B's
And maybe some enzymes (amylase) to avoid the bloat from the carbs.You can also add some vanadyl (30-50mg) to achieve and even more vascular look.

Then,you'll need to drink enough water to achieve a pumped look but not too much.For better results try to drink a cup of water every hour.
You can take a herbal diuretic like taraxatone and start taking it from tomorrow evening.
As for Thurdsay,no,don't cut all your water.
Then,have much sodium on Monday morning and then don't touch it again.It takes 4-5 days to achieve the max effect of sodium loading,so it's better to be sure than taking the risk.Of course you can sweat it off.(play some football,do cardio,or whatever).

heathj
11-11-2001, 03:48 PM
So should I start carbing up Thursday night, or Friday, or what..? And I would only sodium load on Monday, taking in a lot of it in the morning, then taking it out for the rest of the week. How much water should I be drinking Monday-Thursday?

Wizard
11-11-2001, 03:55 PM
Originally posted by heathj
So should I start carbing up Thursday night, or Friday, or what..?

Friday morning


Originally posted by heathj

And I would only sodium load on Monday, taking in a lot of it in the morning, then taking it out for the rest of the week. How much water should I be drinking Monday-Thursday?

Start from 6liters on Monday then reduce it by 1 liter every day till you're on Fridey when you'll have 1,5-2liters.You could do something more extreme but wait till you get some more opinions and suggestions on this topic. :)

heathj
11-11-2001, 04:01 PM
Ok, thanks a lot, one more question though :) Carbing up should last one or two days?

Wizard
11-11-2001, 04:08 PM
It's the same thing.The muscles are going to absorb all the glucose no matter if you eat 2 or 10 meals in a day(or 2 days).Just to ensure that you won't face any bloat problems,have 6 small meals all in Friday.

heathj
11-11-2001, 04:12 PM
Thanks a lot BA, wouldn't have been able to figure it out without you ;) Now let's see if I can buy those supplements or not...

<--- isn't rich :D

Thanks again. We'll see how well it went on Saturday.

Wizard
11-11-2001, 04:14 PM
Good luck!

:D

Wizard
11-12-2001, 03:55 AM
Yo again.Just wanted to give you a more complete guide for the carb up and what to do,as I have a lot of time till going out to play soccer with my m8s :D and as it's the most difficult phase of the "game".So..

Training
On Friday morning,do a big,wholebody depletion workout.This must be done in order to deplete muscle glycogen.The workout should be arranged to be a "giant circuit".Perform one exercise for every bodypart in one big loop,then rest for 5 minutes and do it again.
In this situation do 5 sets of 10 repetitions (with a tempo of 2 seconds negative-2 seconds positive)for quads,hams,calves, chest and lats,4 sets for abs,3 sets for shoulders and 2 sets for both bis and tris.The workout could be done according to a split of legs/calves/abs and chest/lats/shoulders/bis/tris. This is just an example of what you could do.

Diet
You should eat a small carb meal (about 50 grams) 2 hours before starting this workout,and the actual carb-up must begin immediately after the depletion workout.
On Friday you should have 10 grams of carbs/2.2 lbs of lean body mass with carbs making the 70% of your daily caloric intake,protein the 15% and fat the last 15%.The timing and type of carbs is relatively unimportant.What you should take care of is to avoid bloating,so that's why I suggested you to take food enzymes on the carb up day along with a glucose disposal agent like ALA.Vanadyl can be used too but due to it's PH,it may cause stomach problems though it can give you a more vascular look.It's a coin toss...

Water intake
You need to consume 3-4 grams of water for every 1 gram of carbs.This works out to 10 cups of water for a carb intake of 600 grams per day.As I told you before,have 1 cup every hour to take it easy and aid in the digestion.

Supplements
Well,if you can afford 'em :D I'll give you a list starting with the most important ones and according to your budget you choose.

MultiVit,high in B's
Potassium:99mg 5x day
Magnesium:400mg
ALA:600mg
Creatine 10gr
Chromium 200mgs 3x day
Food enzymes 5-6x day (if you face bloating,take them asap)
Vit C:2-3gr
Hydroxycitric acid 750 3x day
AND,continue taking the herbal diuretic,assuming that you've started taking it of course!


*Then,on Saturday morning,hit the sauna if you're holding water but don't overdo it.If you don't have any bloat problems you can have some more simple sugars prior to the shot because it's quite impossible to be full carb loaded but once again not too much because you can end up looking puffy if you overdo it.Remember also what Chigs said and have a glass of red wine before the shot.*

Well,I thing that I covered the most important issues of the pre-shot day but if I'll thing about anything else,I'll post it asap.Yo once again... :D

gopro
11-12-2001, 08:05 AM
I don't like meal 4 as well. Make that meal all protein with perhaps some fibrous carbs from green veggies. Take the carbs that you have allocated to that 4th meal and add it to your post workout meal to better utilize the creatine. Don't cut sodium back until Wednesday and don't cut water too drastically until Thursday night. Friday sip water during the day. Why the grapes...nothing special about them...