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mailman21108
11-23-2004, 04:13 AM
A friend of mine at work told me that she read an article in some health magazine by some doctor that states that americans eat too much protien. It said that too much can be damaging to the liver. I asked her to bring me the article but im still waiting. Is there any truth to this? I am 40 yrs old, and working out regularly, and try to get a gram per lb of body weight daily thru regular diet supplemented with ON 100% whey protien. What is too much? Can anyone add any links to articles that can debunk this claim of too much protien damaging the liver? Thanks

Anthony
11-23-2004, 04:36 AM
It's been discussed about a bazillion times already (do a search). Although I wouldn't worry about it.

Vapour Trails
11-23-2004, 10:38 AM
It all depends....

If you are a couch potato and eat 150 g of protein a day, you might have a problem.
If you are working out with weights 3-4 times a week, you'll need that much.

BigMatt
11-23-2004, 11:07 AM
There can't be too much protein...

Titanium_Jim
11-23-2004, 02:24 PM
Just follow protein with water and your liver/kidneys shouldn't have a problem. You need to drink at least a half gallon per day, but it should be close to twice that. Your body can take a liter every 15 minutes while it's active.

richllew
11-24-2004, 12:23 PM
What ever people say about how loads of protein is safe is wrong.

Even if you workout loads.

The liver can't cope with loads of protein

Vido
11-24-2004, 12:29 PM
What ever people say about how loads of protein is safe is wrong.

Even if you workout loads.

The liver can't cope with loads of protein

and at 15 years old you have all the answers...:rolleyes:

GMCtrk
11-24-2004, 12:50 PM
There can't be too much protein...

yes there can

Vido
11-24-2004, 02:29 PM
yes there can

I beg you to try to come up with an upper limit of protein intake...you can't because there is no research to support it.

Titanium_Jim
11-24-2004, 03:37 PM
Even when you're begging, you have to be the most argumentative person I've ever talked to.

TheGimp
11-24-2004, 04:33 PM
Where are the studies?

Vido
11-24-2004, 07:45 PM
Even when you're begging, you have to be the most argumentative person I've ever talked to.

:D

_8_Ball
11-25-2004, 10:14 AM
and at 15 years old you have all the answers...:rolleyes:

/0wned!!!

loved it...

that is all...

8

GMCtrk
11-25-2004, 11:09 AM
I beg you to try to come up with an upper limit of protein intake...you can't because there is no research to support it.

let's use you as the test dummy. We will keep feeding you protein until your kidneys fail :)

Vapour Trails
11-25-2004, 11:14 AM
There certainly can be too much protein, but at what point for each person...that is the question.

Read the post by Basil a couple weeks back - He was ingesting 400 g protein/day and the Dr. say his liver was failing.

The first stage of AA degradation produces ammonia. Ammonia is toxic and must be flushed out of the body if not used in biosynthesis. So it follows that if you are ingesting far more protein than is required for biosynthesis, your liver will be quite stressed trying to rid your body of this toxic compound.

Bodybuilders are well known for over-doing everything when it comes to nutrition. I bet at least 50% of ppl on this board comsume far more protein than they require. Generally, I believe, despite their appearance, many BBs aren't all that healthy at all.

Vido
11-25-2004, 11:16 AM
let's use you as the test dummy. We will keep feeding you protein until your kidneys fail :)

I agree that there probably IS an upper limit on protein, but I think it would be so high that only maybe 0.00001% of the population would have to worry about it (ie. 500+g).

All I'm saying is there is no scientific evidence to support this as of yet. High protein diets have been shown to exacerbate PRE-EXISTING kidney problems, but nothing negative has been shown regarding well-functioning organs.

ryuage
11-25-2004, 11:18 AM
if you are worried about it, dont eat so much protein... problem solved

akomabutisakama
11-25-2004, 11:24 AM
:withstupi

oph40
11-25-2004, 12:25 PM
studies? Join medline its free, all you need is an email address and a couple of minutes. Then you can read the literature. Though theoretical concerns exist (due to paucity of research), no studies to date, including the one below, have shown protein intake up to 2.8g/Kg body weight are detrimental to the kidneys.

Int J Sport Nutr Exerc Metab 2000 Mar;10(1):28-38 (ISSN: 1526-484X)
Poortmans JR; Dellalieux O
Department of Physiological Chemistry, Institute of Physical Education and Kinesiotherapy, Free University of Brussels, Belgium.
" It has been suggested in the literature, without clear evidence, that high protein intake by athletes has no harmful consequences on renal function. This study investigated body-builders (BB) and other well-trained athletes (OA) with high and medium protein intake, respectively, in order to shed light on this issue. The athletes underwent a 7-day nutrition record analysis as well as blood sample and urine collection to determine the potential renal consequences of a high protein intake. The data revealed that despite higher plasma concentration of uric acid and calcium, Group BB had renal clearances of creatinine, urea, and albumin that were within the normal range. The nitrogen balance for both groups became positive when daily protein intake exceeded 1.26 g.kg but there were no correlations between protein intake and creatinine clearance, albumin excretion rate, and calcium excretion rate. To conclude, it appears that protein intake under 2. 8 g.kg does not impair renal function in well-trained athletes as indicated by the measures of renal function used in this study. "

One review of several studies that suggests an ideal intake for bodybuilding....

Sports Med 2004;34(5):317-27 (ISSN: 0112-1642)
Lambert CP; Frank LL; Evans WJ
"Nutrition, Metabolism, and Exercise Laboratory, Donald W. Reynolds Center on Aging, Department of Geriatrics, University of Arkansas for Medical Sciences, Little Rock, Arkansas 72205, USA. LambertCharlesP@uams.edu.
Participants in the sport of bodybuilding are judged by appearance rather than performance. In this respect, increased muscle size and definition are critical elements of success. The purpose of this review is to evaluate the literature and provide recommendations regarding macronutrient intake during both 'off-season' and 'pre-contest' phases. Body builders attempt to increase muscle mass during the off-season (no competitive events), which may be the great majority of the year. During the off-season, it is advantageous for the bodybuilder to be in positive energy balance so that extra energy is available for muscle anabolism. Additionally, during the off-season, adequate protein must be available to provide amino acids for protein synthesis. For 6-12 weeks prior to competition, body builders attempt to retain muscle mass and reduce body fat to very low levels. During the pre-contest phase, the bodybuilder should be in negative energy balance so that body fat can be oxidised. Furthermore, during the pre-contest phase, protein intake must be adequate to maintain muscle mass. There is evidence that a relatively high protein intake (approximately 30% of energy intake) will reduce lean mass loss relative to a lower protein intake (approximately 15% of energy intake) during energy restriction. The higher protein intake will also provide a relatively large thermic effect that may aid in reducing body fat. In both the off-season and pre-contest phases, adequate dietary carbohydrate should be ingested (55-60% of total energy intake) so that training intensity can be maintained. Excess dietary saturated fat can exacerbate coronary artery disease; however, low-fat diets result in a reduction in circulating testosterone. Thus, we suggest dietary fats comprise 15-20% of the body builders' off-season and pre-contest diets.Consumption of protein/amino acids and carbohydrate immediately before and after training sessions may augment protein synthesis, muscle glycogen resynthesis and reduce protein degradation. The optimal rate of carbohydrate ingested immediately after a training session should be 1.2 g/kg/hour at 30-minute intervals for 4 hours and the carbohydrate should be of high glycaemic index. In summary, the composition of diets for body builders should be 55-60% carbohydrate, 25-30% protein and 15-20% of fat, for both the off-season and pre-contest phases. During the off-season the diet should be slightly hyperenergetic (approximately 15% increase in energy intake) and during the pre-contest phase the diet should be hypoenergetic (approximately 15% decrease in energy intake). "


Since a high protein diet damaging the liver is less plausible, at least from the med school I attended, studies will be less available, though often metabolic profiles in the above studies would screen for such.

spillman
11-26-2004, 10:02 PM
your body doesnt use excess protein, it just passes right through you. As I read above and agree with. Protein is hard on your liver, but with ample amounts of water it processes it fine.

you could take in 1000grams of protein a day if you wanted, but you would be simply wasting your money.

TheGimp
11-27-2004, 07:07 AM
your body doesnt use excess protein, it just passes right through you.

Where do you get this stuff? The body is very efficient and will use almost everything you give it. It's true that only a certain amount of protein will go towards muscle building but the rest can used for energy via glucogenesis.

ryuage
11-27-2004, 07:48 AM
:withstupi

I think some people just talk out of their ass

JSully
11-27-2004, 04:26 PM
:withstupi

GMCtrk
11-27-2004, 05:41 PM
Where do you get this stuff? The body is very efficient and will use almost everything you give it. It's true that only a certain amount of protein will go towards muscle building but the rest can used for energy via glucogenesis.

you mean gluconeogenesis, all 11 steps of it. I had to know that bastard by heart about a week ago :nod:

orbital
11-27-2004, 05:50 PM
your body doesnt use excess protein, it just passes right through you. As I read above and agree with. Protein is hard on your liver, but with ample amounts of water it processes it fine.

What articles were you reading? Neither claimed that protein just passes right through you. Neither claimed that protein is hard on the liver. Neither claimed that ample amounts of water will help out the liver. Bizarre.

The burden of proof lies on the side of the people claiming that high amounts of protein are detrimental to your health. Present evidence.

JSully
11-27-2004, 06:56 PM
I don't know about anyone else, but unless I'm eating 6 double whopper's per day, it takes some planning to eat 300+ g protein. So I wouldn't even be worried about taking too much in. Just take in 1-1.5g/lb protein.

I personally have taken in as much as 400g protein before and felt fine. I drink plenty of water and my piss is always clear, so obviously my kidney's are working fine. I currently take in about 300g protein, and that's on paper. I gotta plan meals out to hit that high. I wouldn't worry about takin in too much protein. As I said, 1-1.5g/lb protein is fine.

GMCtrk
11-28-2004, 11:25 AM
I personally have taken in as much as 400g protein before and felt fine. I drink plenty of water and my piss is always clear, so obviously my kidney's are working fine.

It's all about concentration. The body doesn't care about x number of grams. All the biochemistry in the body is based off of concentrations. As long as you maintain a healthy concentration of protein, be it by taking in 50 grams or 400, you will be fine. It's when that concentration goes way up that you start to have problems.

diego
11-30-2004, 04:23 PM
but all these guys who just take 1g/lb bodyweight, how much weight do you gain a week? i'm taking about 320g protein a day, and on a good week i can gain about 3lbs, some weeks though i can gain nothing maintaining the same diet

orbital
11-30-2004, 11:02 PM
but all these guys who just take 1g/lb bodyweight, how much weight do you gain a week? i'm taking about 320g protein a day, and on a good week i can gain about 3lbs, some weeks though i can gain nothing maintaining the same diet

I think overall calories will have much more to do with weight gain than protein intake levels.