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roidaroonie
11-30-2004, 07:21 PM
I'm finishing up my bulking phase and I have 2 weeks left. This is how hungry I have been getting, I decided to post what I ate today and hopefully some can relate,hahahaaa. For starters, I kept waking up hungry in the middle of the night

3:00 am - 2 slices of Dominoes pizza

5:30 am- 2 more slices of pizza

7:30 am- 1 yogurt
1 bowl of oatmeal
40 gram protien shake

9:45 am- 4 whole scrambled eggs
2 bowls of oatmeal
1 yogurt

!2:45p - 7 slices of Dominoes Pizza
1 protien shake w/ water
1 diet coke

4:00p- 1 double cheeseburger from Wendy's
1 bacon and cheese baked potato
1 diet coke

6:30- 1 chicken wrap from Sonic
another bowl of oatmeal

9:15p- another slice of pizza
1/2 lb of sirloin steak
1 apple

I got one more meal to go which will probably be a can of tuna and a small portion of rice before I go to bed. Dominoes has this deal where you buy 3 medium pizzas and they are only 5 bucks each, so thats the reason for all the pizza. This is how I typically eat after a good ways into my bulking phase. Believe it or not I'm not that fat!! Cant wait to shred up though, this pricey food budget is taking me to the cleaners!!!

trojan1444
11-30-2004, 07:36 PM
Are you trying to gain muscle or pure fat? I'm no expert, but I know without doubt that eating 11 slices of pizza, a double cheeseburger and a wrap from Sonic isn't that right food to be bulking with.

MrWebb78
11-30-2004, 07:49 PM
awesome bulk. fat is a bulkers best friend. those who dont grasp that concept will never get huge.

the sad part is, you will be starving when you diet down. eating like that trains your stomach to accept massive amounts of food, and as you said yourself, you are always hungry. willpower and discipline are a bitch when dieting down.

roidaroonie
11-30-2004, 08:24 PM
Finally, somebody in this forum who ****ing knows something about bodybuilding!!!!!!!!!!! THANK-YOU MRWEBB78!!!! Yeah, it's a pain in the ass the first 3 or 4 weeks of the diet, thats really the hardest part of it, but once that stomach shrinks up it's easy ya' know. I have always started my ephedrine after a few weeks of dieting but I am starting it right away this time to help supress the appetite right from the get go.

GMCtrk
11-30-2004, 09:10 PM
awesome bulk. fat is a bulkers best friend. those who dont grasp that concept will never get huge.



yes, but pizza is not the way to go about it. It's just full of crap. Instead of all that Pizza try eating eggs, natural peanut butter, nuts, olive oil, etc.

Canadian Crippler
11-30-2004, 11:15 PM
Finally, somebody in this forum who ****ing knows something about bodybuilding!!!!!!!!!!!In all honesty dude, why don't you just leave then?

I'm sure you know your stuff, and that you get some use out of these forums, but all I read from you is complaining and flaming. Maybe you should tone it down a bit and realize not everyone has been doing hardcore research about bodybuilding and nutrition for X amount of years.

Don't take this offensively, I'm just trying to stop this problem in it's tracks.



Anyways thats some MEAN eating lol, I sure wish I could consume like that.

Vido
11-30-2004, 11:51 PM
The reason your diet is so "pricey" is because you're eating out so much. I don't care if Dominoes has a deal on for cheap pizza, it's still going to cost you more than eating things like GMCtrk suggested...as well as be a whole lot less healthy (albeit a lot better tasting).

abwowang
12-01-2004, 12:11 AM
Finally, somebody in this forum who ****ing knows something about bodybuilding!!!!!!!!!!! THANK-YOU MRWEBB78!!!! Yeah, it's a pain in the ass the first 3 or 4 weeks of the diet, thats really the hardest part of it, but once that stomach shrinks up it's easy ya' know. I have always started my ephedrine after a few weeks of dieting but I am starting it right away this time to help supress the appetite right from the get go.

uh..
didnt MRWEBB78 just speak some common sense.. duh when u eat that much ur stomach will expand and expect more food thus making dietting harder..
anywaaaays..


dang.. ur gonna get big on that diet.. lol.. yummy.. i wish i could eat that much..

Vido
12-01-2004, 12:17 AM
uh..
didnt MRWEBB78 just speak some common sense.. duh when u eat that much ur stomach will expand and expect more food thus making dietting harder..
anywaaaays..

I believe he was referring to the part about "fat being a bulker's best friend".

ryuage
12-01-2004, 03:04 AM
I didnt know I had to eat junk food to build muscle and maintain/improve my health... go figure! was wondering where I went wrong. =\

Isaac Wilkins
12-01-2004, 03:47 AM
To some degree he's right.

People have too much of a "clean" phobia when bulking. Sometimes it's advantageous to just get big. The primary bottleneck for muscular growth isn't protein intake, or macronutrient ratio, it's caloric intake.

Sure, he's not going to stay at 8% bodyfat on his bulk. He will pack on pounds of quality muscle by eating six or seven thousand calories a day.

I know quite a few guys (Webb included) who've gone from "normal" (~170-180 lbs) to massive (300+ pounds) naturally while eating seven thousand calories or more per day. Did they stay lean? Generally no, although they didn't get as fat as you probably think they did. Did they get VERY big and VERY strong? Yep.

And if one is enhanced, then hell, it's on.

ryuage
12-01-2004, 05:25 AM
you are right borris, but you dont need to eat fast food 6x a day.

roidaroonie
12-01-2004, 07:28 AM
In all honesty dude, why don't you just leave then?

I'm sure you know your stuff, and that you get some use out of these forums, but all I read from you is complaining and flaming. Maybe you should tone it down a bit and realize not everyone has been doing hardcore research about bodybuilding and nutrition for X amount of years.

Don't take this offensively, I'm just trying to stop this problem in it's tracks.



Anyways thats some MEAN eating lol, I sure wish I could consume like that.
Why dont I just leave? I bitch about everything in my posts, ok what posts do I bitch about that bother you so much? I do not claim to be a know- it- all expert,but I do know enough to get me on stage, how many shows have you done?? Maybe you should try to learn from the more experienced guys so you can get further with the sport.

roidaroonie
12-01-2004, 07:29 AM
Also, I'm not on here to suck anybody's nipple kid, I'm on here to share info, to learn info, and straight forward is the way to be when it comes to bodybulding.

not_big_enuf
12-01-2004, 09:02 AM
i couldn't eat that much in 3 days....

Vapour Trails
12-01-2004, 10:44 AM
I could eat that much, yum.

This reminds me of an article in a muscle mag I saw probably 5-6 years ago. The article was on bulking and the story was about the author would drank whole cream and downed 1500 calorie philly-cheese steak sandwichs to gain mass. Anyway, I remember a direct quote from that article,

"You don't get huge eating chicken breasts and tuna"

I would tend to argee with that but I think you can also over do it and gain serious flab.

Vido
12-01-2004, 12:00 PM
i couldn't eat that much in 3 days....

then I could see why you're "not big enuf" ;)

Vido
12-01-2004, 12:02 PM
you are right borris, but you dont need to eat fast food 6x a day.

:withstupi Not to mention, albeit bodybuilders aren't necessarily after optimal health and longevity, eating like that really isn't very healthy.

Vido
12-01-2004, 12:06 PM
"You don't get huge eating chicken breasts and tuna"


All that's referring to is that both chicken breasts and tuna are low calorie foods, and that most people do not have the stomach to be able to eat enough low calorie or "clean" foods each day to gain appreciable size. If you do, however, it's clearly a better approach than stuffing your face with crap. If you don't, then some higher calorie, perhaps "messier" foods, need to come into play. If I had trouble getting all my cals in, I would much prefer just to gorge myself on natty pb every day (much like I believe BCC did a while back), as it's not only delicious, but fairly good for you too.

not_big_enuf
12-01-2004, 12:10 PM
good one Vido... i actually rolled when i read that!

man you're a post whore!!!! 3 posts in a row!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i love these forums too...

Rik-s
12-01-2004, 12:11 PM
Interesting tbh, i'm trying to gain weight/size(not a strict bulk though) as well as build muscle and had started already adding some high calorie junk into my days intake to give it a good kick up the a**.... nice to see that it IS possible to get good results from this and that others can see the logic in it :)

Vido
12-01-2004, 12:20 PM
To some degree he's right.

People have too much of a "clean" phobia when bulking. Sometimes it's advantageous to just get big. The primary bottleneck for muscular growth isn't protein intake, or macronutrient ratio, it's caloric intake.

Sure, he's not going to stay at 8% bodyfat on his bulk. He will pack on pounds of quality muscle by eating six or seven thousand calories a day.

I know quite a few guys (Webb included) who've gone from "normal" (~170-180 lbs) to massive (300+ pounds) naturally while eating seven thousand calories or more per day. Did they stay lean? Generally no, although they didn't get as fat as you probably think they did. Did they get VERY big and VERY strong? Yep.

Borris, I notice you always seem to be all for eating what it takes to get the job done. The thing is, there ARE high-calorie "clean" foods, so those are what you should push. If someone wants a pizza there's no need to scold him, but that shouldn't be part of a regular diet. Throwing unnecessary amounts of mass on (what bodybuilding is all about) is already not particularly healthy for the human body. Why exacerbate the situation by eating junk all the time?

In addition, people always forget to mention the negative factors of getting big really quickly. I certainly don't think one needs to stay at 8% on a bulk, nor am I doubting that Mr. Webb or whoever else you're referring to stayed lean "enough" on their super-bulk, but throwing massive amounts of weight on has adverse effects too.

Even with a small 5lb gain the little things start becoming harder, ie., walking to class, walking up a flight of stairs, cramming into the backseat of a car with friends, etc. I'm not saying they become impossible, but noticably harder, yes. I can't imagine the difference a 50lb gain would make.

I'm not going to list off thousands of negatives of getting big quickly, but here's one more that very few people think of, until they actually have gotten bigger and are forced to act: buying a completely new wardrobe. If you gain 50 lbs in a matter of months or a year or whatever, your old clothes won't fit anymore. Depending on how you dress (or what you may need to wear for work) that could be thousands of dollars you need to fork out.

We're all here because we want to get big (or in some cases, lean out a bit), but things have to be put in perspective.

_8_Ball
12-01-2004, 12:21 PM
In all honesty dude, why don't you just leave then?

I'm sure you know your stuff, and that you get some use out of these forums, but all I read from you is complaining and flaming. Maybe you should tone it down a bit and realize not everyone has been doing hardcore research about bodybuilding and nutrition for X amount of years.

Don't take this offensively, I'm just trying to stop this problem in it's tracks.



Anyways thats some MEAN eating lol, I sure wish I could consume like that.

Is that you in your avatar?

8

Vido
12-01-2004, 12:22 PM
man you're a post whore!!!! 3 posts in a row!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It would have been 4 if you and Rik-s hadn't posted while I was writing :mad:.

Manveet
12-01-2004, 12:44 PM
To some degree he's right.

People have too much of a "clean" phobia when bulking. Sometimes it's advantageous to just get big. The primary bottleneck for muscular growth isn't protein intake, or macronutrient ratio, it's caloric intake.

Sure, he's not going to stay at 8% bodyfat on his bulk. He will pack on pounds of quality muscle by eating six or seven thousand calories a day.

I know quite a few guys (Webb included) who've gone from "normal" (~170-180 lbs) to massive (300+ pounds) naturally while eating seven thousand calories or more per day. Did they stay lean? Generally no, although they didn't get as fat as you probably think they did. Did they get VERY big and VERY strong? Yep.

And if one is enhanced, then hell, it's on.

I quite honestly couldn't agree with you more. I used to be on the other side of the fence on this issue (eat super clean when bulking). But I since realised that caloric intake, along with adequate protein intake is absolutely ESSENTIAL for muslce growth.

ryuage
12-01-2004, 12:47 PM
I could easily cram 5000+ clean cals if I knew it wouldnt just lead to fat gain... theres a point of diminishing returns as with anything, where you will put on more fat then you are muscle just to get that extra lb or two.

Canadian Crippler
12-01-2004, 01:14 PM
Is that you in your avatar?

8Heh no, it's "t3h chunk!". I think I'll change it because this seems to be a common question asked :p

MrWebb78
12-01-2004, 01:39 PM
I could easily cram 5000+ clean cals if I knew it wouldnt just lead to fat gain... theres a point of diminishing returns as with anything, where you will put on more fat then you are muscle just to get that extra lb or two.

genetics plays a role in this ( i believe)

i know my body well, through years of trial and error. the most successful bulk of my life came over the course of about a year. a went from 240 to 296(never reached 300 god dammit!!!) obviously i wasnt very lean, but i surprised myself to see i wasnt very fat either.

the truly disappointing part has been since that bulk. school and work takes up all my time and the gym time has suffered huge. im at 270 and a higher bf% then when i was at 296:(

ryuage
12-01-2004, 03:36 PM
yes I do believe genetics does play a role, cuz I know I would become a fat slob if I ate crap all day long.

roidaroonie
12-01-2004, 03:37 PM
Alot of people dont know this, but most of the magazines and training programs you read purposely advocate overtraining and eating nothing but skinless chicken, broccoli and rice, so when your a walking zombie and about to drop dead you'll say "I need Nitro Tech!!!" I need No2, I need Pump Tech" and this is how the supplement companies make the bulk of thier money. This was the prime reason for the conflict between Joe Wieder and Mike Mentzer back in the day, because Mike relied on heavy duty training and people started growing doing it because they were not overtraining. Overtraining does not just mean training 7 days a week, it's training without adequate calories as well. Fat definitely plays a large role in building muscle, but carb loading plays a huge role in the recovery of those muscles. I want all of you guys who doubt this theory of extreme eating to do this. For one week try getting 4-5000 calories a day from nothing but chicken, peanut butter, tuna, rice(good luck!) and work out and record your best lifts. Then for one week try to stick to the good foods that I mentioned above, but cram a Big Mac or a pizza in here and there. Then tell me what week you were stronger in the gym. And if your getting stronger then you can bet you'll be growing soon enough. Sure ,you might be spending hundreds of dollars on a new wardrobe, but you'll be saving hundreds of dollars on BS supplements that do little to help your gains compared to food.

Vapour Trails
12-01-2004, 04:03 PM
All that's referring to is that both chicken breasts and tuna are low calorie foods, and that most people do not have the stomach to be able to eat enough low calorie or "clean" foods each day to gain appreciable size. If you do, however, it's clearly a better approach than stuffing your face with crap. If you don't, then some higher calorie, perhaps "messier" foods, need to come into play. If I had trouble getting all my cals in, I would much prefer just to gorge myself on natty pb every day (much like I believe BCC did a while back), as it's not only delicious, but fairly good for you too.

True, but I think it also makes reference to the fact that these foods have very little fat content.

ryuage
12-01-2004, 04:05 PM
Alot of people dont know this, but most of the magazines and training programs you read purposely advocate overtraining and eating nothing but skinless chicken, broccoli and rice, so when your a walking zombie and about to drop dead you'll say "I need Nitro Tech!!!" I need No2, I need Pump Tech" and this is how the supplement companies make the bulk of thier money. This was the prime reason for the conflict between Joe Wieder and Mike Mentzer back in the day, because Mike relied on heavy duty training and people started growing doing it because they were not overtraining. Overtraining does not just mean training 7 days a week, it's training without adequate calories as well. Fat definitely plays a large role in building muscle, but carb loading plays a huge role in the recovery of those muscles. I want all of you guys who doubt this theory of extreme eating to do this. For one week try getting 4-5000 calories a day from nothing but chicken, peanut butter, tuna, rice(good luck!) and work out and record your best lifts. Then for one week try to stick to the good foods that I mentioned above, but cram a Big Mac or a pizza in here and there. Then tell me what week you were stronger in the gym. And if your getting stronger then you can bet you'll be growing soon enough. Sure ,you might be spending hundreds of dollars on a new wardrobe, but you'll be saving hundreds of dollars on BS supplements that do little to help your gains compared to food.


so what would be the difference in eating a big mac and eating the same amount of calories from the so called "bodybuilding foods"

Max-Mex
12-01-2004, 04:07 PM
To some degree he's right.

People have too much of a "clean" phobia when bulking. Sometimes it's advantageous to just get big. The primary bottleneck for muscular growth isn't protein intake, or macronutrient ratio, it's caloric intake.


Yea but isn't he better off taking a couple of swigs of olive oil than eating 30 slices (ok maybe im exaggerating) of pizza? I mean the benefits of consuming olive oil for extra calories has to way better than just eating pure junk food. It's just plain healthier. Seriously, 1 tbsp of olive oil is roughly 125 cals. A slice of cheese pizza is 300-500 cals depending on where you buy it. That's around 3000 cals from pizza alone (12 slices per day). He could have 24 tbps of olive oil and get the same caloric surplus.

I honestly think it's silly to base a bulk on junk food. Not saying you shouldn't have it at all, but there are far healthier bulking foods.

ryuage
12-01-2004, 04:09 PM
honestly it souds and is an excuse for some people to eat junk and to justify it to themselves. if it works for you then by all means.... more power to you, cuz I care about my health.

MrWebb78
12-01-2004, 04:17 PM
so what would be the difference in eating a big mac and eating the same amount of calories from the so called "bodybuilding foods"

"bodybuilding foods" would mean 12 chicken breasts to = the 900 calories that one big mac has. there is one of many differences.

roidaroonie
12-01-2004, 04:20 PM
Nah, I'm not justifying eating junk all the time, but it just works for me more towards the end of a bulking phase when it seems damn near impossible to get any more size or strength no matter what you try. I'll try to get some before and after pics posted on the board so you can see the Pizza Monster himself, hahahhahaaa.

roidaroonie
12-01-2004, 04:24 PM

roidaroonie
12-01-2004, 04:28 PM
As you can see I've put on a good 30 lbs from this picture here in early summer. I felt that my chest was far too small for my lats, and my biceps definitele needed some serious size to match my frame.

Isaac Wilkins
12-01-2004, 04:28 PM
Borris, I notice you always seem to be all for eating what it takes to get the job done. The thing is, there ARE high-calorie "clean" foods, so those are what you should push. If someone wants a pizza there's no need to scold him, but that shouldn't be part of a regular diet. Throwing unnecessary amounts of mass on (what bodybuilding is all about) is already not particularly healthy for the human body. Why exacerbate the situation by eating junk all the time?

In addition, people always forget to mention the negative factors of getting big really quickly. I certainly don't think one needs to stay at 8% on a bulk, nor am I doubting that Mr. Webb or whoever else you're referring to stayed lean "enough" on their super-bulk, but throwing massive amounts of weight on has adverse effects too.

Even with a small 5lb gain the little things start becoming harder, ie., walking to class, walking up a flight of stairs, cramming into the backseat of a car with friends, etc. I'm not saying they become impossible, but noticably harder, yes. I can't imagine the difference a 50lb gain would make.

I'm not going to list off thousands of negatives of getting big quickly, but here's one more that very few people think of, until they actually have gotten bigger and are forced to act: buying a completely new wardrobe. If you gain 50 lbs in a matter of months or a year or whatever, your old clothes won't fit anymore. Depending on how you dress (or what you may need to wear for work) that could be thousands of dollars you need to fork out.

We're all here because we want to get big (or in some cases, lean out a bit), but things have to be put in perspective.


I think that you misunderstand me sometimes.

Look at the way I do things. I eat my share of crap from time to time, but I generally eat pretty well, sometimes even too focused, and when I'm motivated my results speak for themselves.

I am a huge advocate of "eating what it takes to get the job done". Why wouldn't I be? It just depends on what the "job" is. Want to get a little big and stay lean or lean out a bit? Eat clean. Want to have superior athletic performance? Eat accordingly. Want to get f*cking huge? Eat everything in damn sight.

Listen to some of the bigger guys here. Read their stuff. How did they get that way? I got my biggest eating pretty much everything in sight at the dining commons when I was in early college. Was I lean? Nope. Did I gain a lot of muscle mass? Sure. Look at Webb. Look at Narc. Look at Saturday Fever. Look at Clint Darden (pro strongman). Eat what it takes to do the job, whatever it is.

YOU may not want to buy a new wardrobe or have a hard time fitting in cars. Others might see those situations as acceptable consequences of getting big.

Jasonl
12-01-2004, 04:32 PM
Damn, it is obviously working just fine for you, roidaroonie becuae you're big and lean.

But god damn this thread is killing me, I wish I never clicked on it becuase I'm cutting and all this pizza and Big-Mac talk is making me so damn hungry! :D

ryuage
12-01-2004, 04:37 PM
so how much longer do you plan on bulking for

Frozenmoses
12-01-2004, 04:47 PM
You guys suck. Here I am, starving on my 700 calories a day, and you guys are getting like double that in a meal. I miss pizza.

Seriously though, for optimal results, your bulk has to be somewhat clean. Junk food isn't gonna kill you on fat gain when bulking, but it's certainly not the best thing to be eating. If you feel like gorging yourself on fast food, go for it. I'm with Vido, however. I'd be perfectly content downing copious amounts of natty pb, making my own burgers, and eating higher calorie "clean" foods.

roidaroonie
12-01-2004, 04:48 PM
I'm bulking for 2-3 more weeks, then I'll start dropping the fat. I would like to be 205-210 lbs at under 7% bodyfat by March.

MrWebb78
12-01-2004, 05:07 PM
you should post pics in the members pic area, youd get more responses on them. lookin good, didnt gain much fat on the pizza diet, youre still big, tan, lean. im just big pale and hairy:)

ryuage
12-01-2004, 05:09 PM
you on any kind of cycle right now roonie

Vido
12-01-2004, 05:29 PM
For one week try getting 4-5000 calories a day from nothing but chicken, peanut butter, tuna, rice(good luck!) and work out and record your best lifts. Then for one week try to stick to the good foods that I mentioned above, but cram a Big Mac or a pizza in here and there. Then tell me what week you were stronger in the gym.

Some people have NO problem eating 4-5000 clean cals/day (myself being one of them). I'd bet I'd be stronger in the gym from 4-5000 clean cals, than if I was throwing a Big Mac or burger in there.

Obviously if you can't hit 4-5000 clean cals though, then sure, "supplement" your diet with messier foods.

Vido
12-01-2004, 05:32 PM
"bodybuilding foods" would mean 12 chicken breasts to = the 900 calories that one big mac has. there is one of many differences.

First off, I thought a Big Mac only had 600 cals, but I could be wrong...it's not a big deal to me.

Secondly, you wouldn't be eating all chicken breasts to reach that calorie count. It's even easier to swig a couple tablespoons of olive oil than it is to have a bite out of a burger. You can also eat 900 calories of natty pb without even thinking about it. There's numerous food combinations that you could have that would a) get you to 900 calories and b) provide a more favourable nutrient profile.

MrWebb78
12-01-2004, 05:36 PM
it was just a sarcastic example.

Vido
12-01-2004, 05:45 PM
Want to get f*cking huge? Eat everything in damn sight.

Listen to some of the bigger guys here. Read their stuff. How did they get that way? I got my biggest eating pretty much everything in sight at the dining commons when I was in early college. Was I lean? Nope. Did I gain a lot of muscle mass? Sure. Look at Webb. Look at Narc. Look at Saturday Fever. Look at Clint Darden (pro strongman). Eat what it takes to do the job, whatever it is.

I'm only generalizing, but I think you're describing a look that the majority of people on this board don't aspire to have.

Vido
12-01-2004, 05:46 PM
it was just a sarcastic example.

Fair enough. And you should see some of my cheats...they would certainly make you proud :). I just don't think that's the way to eat day in and day out.

roidaroonie
12-01-2004, 06:34 PM
Ryuage, I got off my cycle about 7 or 8 weeks ago. I did a 10 week cycle, it looked like this.
weeks 1-4: 35mg/day dbol
weeks 1-5: 10iu insulin post workout days only
weeks 1-10:400mg/ wk test cyp
weeks 1-10: 100mg/wk deca
weeks 5-10: 100 mg ed fina

Followed up by PCT and started the slin again during PCT to help aid in keeping some of the gains I made. I went from around 212 at 8.5% bodyfat to about 240lbs at somewhere around the 16-18% range if I had to guess. Since the end of everything, I've still managed to be around 237lbs, and kept most of tyhe strength, but my squat is what dropped the most.

Vido
12-01-2004, 08:20 PM
Followed up by PCT and started the slin again during PCT to help aid in keeping some of the gains I made. I went from around 212 at 8.5% bodyfat to about 240lbs at somewhere around the 16-18% range if I had to guess. Since the end of everything, I've still managed to be around 237lbs, and kept most of tyhe strength, but my squat is what dropped the most.

I think you're numbers are a little off there, man. I'm not trying to be a prick (because I think you look good in those photos), but if those numbers are accurate then apparently you only gained 3-7lbs of lean body mass over that entire cycle.

roidaroonie
12-01-2004, 08:34 PM
they may in fact be off. The dumbasses as my gym do a 3 point fat check, they caliper your stomach, quad, and right where your chest and shoulder come together. But dude, I know i gained more than 3-7 lbs of lean mass during that cycle. I did in fact gain some water and fat, but I definitely gained alot more muscle than that. I will try to get it checked again, but in my bulking pic I have at least gotta be 16 or 17% bf, at least!!!!

Vido
12-01-2004, 08:36 PM
Maybe you weren't 8.5% to start with then. I'm not telling you that you didn't gain more than 3-7lbs of muscle, I'm sure you did. I'm just simply doing the calculations based on the numbers you provided.

roidaroonie
12-01-2004, 08:39 PM
I may not have been as low as 8.5%, but I dont think it could have been more than 9 or 10%.

BigMatt
12-02-2004, 08:31 AM
I could easily cram 5000+ clean cals if I knew it wouldnt just lead to fat gain... theres a point of diminishing returns as with anything, where you will put on more fat then you are muscle just to get that extra lb or two.

Exactly,all the people are thinking Weight is all that matter but it's the muscle that count..

Ive been bulking for a while , i got carried too much with weight gaining. Just recently did pass a BF test im 205 15%. If i need to go back to 190 to be 10% im going to do it... Looking like crap is not my thing...

BigMatt
12-02-2004, 08:38 AM
As you can see I've put on a good 30 lbs from this picture here in early summer. I felt that my chest was far too small for my lats, and my biceps definitele needed some serious size to match my frame.


Errr, Sure you can eat all that crap and stay lean when your ass is filled with 500mg of test per week and popping dbol like candy.

I dont flame you but think that most people here are not "Chemicaly echanced" and could gain a ****load of fat going on a bulk like you did

roidaroonie
12-02-2004, 09:01 AM
Actually, I've eaten like this without anything besides protien powder before as well, the bigger you get the harder it is to gain muscle, there comes a point where calories count just as much as protien and carbs. If you honestly think that the Pros in the off season eat nothing but chicken and rice and take olive oil, you couldnt be more wrong bro. Read the interviews with some of these guys, Lee Priest eats all that crap I've listed times 10 in his off season. Why is it that on one of Ronnie Colemans web pages the opening page is a picture of him with a slice of pizza in his hand?? That doesnt exactly fit the bodybuilder image to the public eye. Maybe these guys know something that we dont. But certain drugs do help you burn fat faster, I'll give you that.

roidaroonie
12-02-2004, 09:02 AM
Also, I would not consider myself lean in my bulking picture, and not too lean in my cutting one as well by my standards.

BigMatt
12-02-2004, 09:03 AM
Still mate you look good, how tall are you?

roidaroonie
12-02-2004, 10:05 AM
I'm 5'9", I am at 237 lbs right now. I'm trying to do fitness modeling next spring. I met with an agency last spring about it, but they told me that they wanted my chest bigger and my abs better, my hair longer hahhahahah, go figure. So I decided that the only way that it was ever going to become a reality was to go on an extreme bulking phase this past fall, then hopefully be in the right shape they need me in by Spring. Just feel like I've got too much into this at this point to not do something with it.

galileo
12-02-2004, 10:44 AM
My last bulk was a clean-food only bulk. I topped out on my bodyweight and no matter how much I ate, I was unable to add weight to myself. I did continue to gain strength, but I only added about 11lbs total for my entire bulk, when I was shooting for far more.

The problem was - I ate so much oatmeal and chicken that I couldn't even stand to eat that much in the evenings. Even when I planned on going for fast food, I'd be so stuffed that nothing would appeal to me; I was just full. If it prohibits your caloric intake in anyway, start throwing in favorites here and there. Why not, right?

I'll pull a Lyle comment here -
A novice asks, "I heard that sex lowers test levels, is that true?"
Lyle says, "Let's say it did. Would you stop having sex? Is having a slightly better physique worth giving up sex for the rest of your life? Will you be proud of that decision when you're 90 ****ing years old and look like a wrinkled sack of ****?"

Bottom line - no need to deprive yourself completely. Olive oil, PB, all great additions. But come cutting time you'll end up cracking and eating crappy food on a cut is probably more self-defeating than on a bulk.

Like Borris said, eat towards your goals.

roidaroonie
12-02-2004, 11:14 AM
My last bulk was a clean-food only bulk. I topped out on my bodyweight and no matter how much I ate, I was unable to add weight to myself. I did continue to gain strength, but I only added about 11lbs total for my entire bulk, when I was shooting for far more.

The problem was - I ate so much oatmeal and chicken that I couldn't even stand to eat that much in the evenings. Even when I planned on going for fast food, I'd be so stuffed that nothing would appeal to me; I was just full. If it prohibits your caloric intake in anyway, start throwing in favorites here and there. Why not, right?

I'll pull a Lyle comment here -
A novice asks, "I heard that sex lowers test levels, is that true?"
Lyle says, "Let's say it did. Would you stop having sex? Is having a slightly better physique worth giving up sex for the rest of your life? Will you be proud of that decision when you're 90 ****ing years old and look like a wrinkled sack of ****?"

Bottom line - no need to deprive yourself completely. Olive oil, PB, all great additions. But come cutting time you'll end up cracking and eating crappy food on a cut is probably more self-defeating than on a bulk.

Like Borris said, eat towards your goals.


I couldn't have said it better myself bro!!!!! Believe it or not, I'm tired of junking up now, and a diet will actually be easier to stick to, you couldnt be more right my man!!!!!

PowerManDL
12-02-2004, 11:16 AM
Borris, I notice you always seem to be all for eating what it takes to get the job done.

What a moron he is!

You should be as ineffective as possible with your diet.

ryuage
12-02-2004, 11:27 AM
all i know is... if I had some magic pill or was allowed to eat however much I wanted without turning into a baloon I could easily pack 6000+ calories without thinking twice with oatmeal, peanutbutter, chicken, veggies, brown rice, etc...

i must just be some freak of nature :)

MrWebb78
12-02-2004, 01:21 PM
this thread has inspired me to order a pizza

ryuage
12-02-2004, 01:26 PM
its about to inspire me.... if I liked pizza. =\ dunno what happened I guess eating clean got my mind off thosefoods haha

Vido
12-02-2004, 01:51 PM
this thread has inspired me to order a pizza

I'm right there with you on that one. *goes to look up Pizza Hut's phone number*

Vido
12-02-2004, 01:52 PM
What a moron he is!

You should be as ineffective as possible with your diet.

It's great when things are taken completely out of context :rolleyes:.

roidaroonie
12-02-2004, 04:00 PM
Dominoes has 3 mediums for 5 bucks each guys, and Tuesdays its 2 for Tuesdays, 2 mediums for the price of one. I have 2 weeks left to enjoy this, then its back to the chicken and rice, **** ME!!!

ryuage
12-02-2004, 04:04 PM
chicken and rice... yummmmmm

galileo
12-02-2004, 04:06 PM
Oh ****, I'm about to binge on egg whites!

Severed Ties
12-02-2004, 05:20 PM
The problem always boils down to genetics some guys like myself gain fat very easily...classic endomorphs. 2 years ago I tried a similar bulking diet...less pizza but I made sure to eat 5K calories per day with plenty pf protein. I tracked my progress over 10 weeks using the usual skinfold bodyfat testing I have done year round. I think I put on 20-25 pounds during that bulk however when I converted those numbers into fat and LBM using the changes in skinfold measurements I sadly learned that 70% of the weight I gained was pure fat! In the years following I learned that I grow as well on 3500 calories as I do on 6000. My body just can't utilize calories beyond a certain point so for me to exceed that number just leads to excessive fat gain.

Now take a member like BCC and this kind of eating is what he needs to do just to maintain his size.

It comes down to genetics and metabolism, everyone is on a different part of the spectrim. Eating like this may work for some members here but it's not a blanket statement that this is the "right" way to bulk up or will work for everyone. As has been said so many times there is no "right way" to bulk or cut for everyone but there is a right way and wrong way to bulk or cut for every individual.

ST

Big Bas
12-02-2004, 05:48 PM
roidaroonie, and the "dirty" bulkers.... do you do cardio during your bulk, or do u stick to weight training? what is ur routine like?

PizDoff
12-02-2004, 08:07 PM
!2:45p - 7 slices of Dominoes Pizza
1 protien shake w/ water
1 diet coke

Please tell me the shake and coke are separate!

Rik-s
12-03-2004, 10:36 AM
roidaroonie, and the "dirty" bulkers.... do you do cardio during your bulk, or do u stick to weight training? what is ur routine like?

Still a newb at this, but wouldnt doin cardio during a bulk just decrease the results?

Seems to me even partially burning off cals through cardio would only serve to make a bulk slower with more frustrating results......Maybe i'm wrong though.

Vido
12-03-2004, 11:37 AM
Still a newb at this, but wouldnt doin cardio during a bulk just decrease the results?

Seems to me even partially burning off cals through cardio would only serve to make a bulk slower with more frustrating results......Maybe i'm wrong though.

Burning more cals just means you get to eat more to make up for it. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm food :drooling:.

Isaac Wilkins
12-03-2004, 11:43 AM
Still a newb at this, but wouldnt doin cardio during a bulk just decrease the results?

Seems to me even partially burning off cals through cardio would only serve to make a bulk slower with more frustrating results......Maybe i'm wrong though.

Yeah, as Vido said, it basically means you need to eat more.

The cardio will keep fat gain down during a bulk because it's making calories "disappear". It's good for someone to do some cardio for the health benefits of it, and there's a bit about the anabolic response to sprinting/HIIT, but realistically it just means that one would need to eat more to create the same caloric surplus.

If one doesn't want to get fat on a bulk then one should keep calories fairly tight above maintenance, or eat a ton and do a fair amount of cardio.

Personally, I hate cardio with a passion, so I tend to opt for the first option. ;)

Vido
12-03-2004, 11:48 AM
If one doesn't want to get fat on a bulk then one should keep calories fairly tight above maintenance, or eat a ton and do a fair amount of cardio.

Personally, I hate cardio with a passion, so I tend to opt for the first option. ;)

Exactly, and I happen to not mind cardio and love eating, so I prefer the latter option. I really don't think it makes much difference on your physique either way.

ryuage
12-03-2004, 11:49 AM
bought I thought you are for going all out on bulks? :)

CCTx
12-03-2004, 11:52 AM
My question is you eat clean to get the needed bulk, or you eat whatever you feel like eating. THIS ISNT THE SAME FOR A WOMAN........so whats up with DAT! We dont necessarily want to bulk only gain that muscle.

ryuage
12-03-2004, 11:53 AM
so what exactly is your question

Vido
12-03-2004, 11:54 AM
bought I thought you are for going all out on bulks? :)

Me or Borris?

Vido
12-03-2004, 11:56 AM
so what exactly is your question


She's asking what a "bulking" (muscle-only) diet would look like for a woman.

Sorry, I can't help you out there CCTx, I don't know anything about women...in any aspect of life :p.

ryuage
12-03-2004, 11:59 AM
borris :D

Isaac Wilkins
12-03-2004, 12:20 PM
bought I thought you are for going all out on bulks? :)

Certainly not. I don't think I've ever said that.

I'm all for going all out if that's your goal. If your goal is to officially GFH (Get ****ing Huge), then sure. If you're a competitor like roidaroonie with already a lot of size, and you're trying to pack on every single ounce of muscle you can get, then that's probably the way to do it.

You'll notice that I personally tend to use tighter bulks. This is mainly because as ST stated, I'm a fat **** and I tend to gain fat as well as muscle rapidly (although not to the awful proportion he reported).

I find that if I eat about 80% clean on a bulk and just schedule more "cheat" meals then I gain much better than if I ate clean all of the time, or if I ate dirty all of the time.

ryuage
12-03-2004, 12:24 PM
gotcha

CCTx
12-03-2004, 12:30 PM
Yes Vido.....thank you (bowing)

Isaac Wilkins
12-03-2004, 12:31 PM
Of course, give me a gram of test a week and I'd be eating chicken breasts, rice, olive oil, and chewing on everything including the tables at Taco Bell.

:angel:

ryuage
12-03-2004, 12:33 PM
does test really partition food that much better?

CCTx
12-03-2004, 12:37 PM
I don't know anything about women...in any aspect of life .


hahaha GOT CHA!!! We DONT BITE!!! (EVIL SMILE)

Frozenmoses
12-03-2004, 12:39 PM
CCTx - What part of Texas are you from?

Isaac Wilkins
12-03-2004, 12:40 PM
She's asking what a "bulking" (muscle-only) diet would look like for a woman.

Sorry, I can't help you out there CCTx, I don't know anything about women...in any aspect of life :p.

Women tend to do better on the very tight "bulks" because of many factors. The hormonal differences make it difficult for them to rapidly synthesize muscle and very easy for them to rapidly store body fat.

Their (usually) smaller size and lower BMR makes high calorie diets more problematic as well.

When I train women I usually start at their set point and start adding 100-200 calories a day by the week or even two weeks, with clean foods and maybe 2-3 "cheat" meals a week. Of the cheat meals I like a couple of them to be good food, just unmeasured and a little bigger than normal. In other words, go out for dinner, have a nice healthy meal, a glass or two of wine/beer, etc. Then one meal just can be whatever they want to preserve sanity.

Say a woman maintained her weight and bodyfat at a clean 2100 calories a day, a bulking schedule might look like this:

Week 1: 2300 calories per day
Week 2: 2450 calories per day
Week 3: 2550 calories per day
and so on, incrementing in smaller amounts until the weight gain was acceptable. I'd say somewhere in the neighborhood of 0.5 lbs per week. Most women have a hard time synthesizing much more muscle than that without unacceptable fat gain. If one can keep gaining muscle without much fat, then take advantage.

If the fat gain (by proportion) becomes too much, then scale the calories back down until it's acceptable again.

Women also when cutting tend to do better with cardio to create caloric deficit because they don't liberate and churn through stored body fat as well as men. Again, hormonal profile differences.

So on a bulk I suggest women continue to do cardio, just nothing crazy. This allows them to eat more food so they can enjoy things a little more.

Isaac Wilkins
12-03-2004, 12:42 PM
does test really partition food that much better?

Short answer, yes.

Would I still gain fat? Probably. I'd be very interested in taking care of the higher protein synthesis rate and I'd fall into the Get ****ing Huge catagory that I spoke of earlier.

The fat gain would be substantially less than normally.

PowerManDL
12-03-2004, 02:23 PM
Short answer, yes.

Would I still gain fat? Probably. I'd be very interested in taking care of the higher protein synthesis rate and I'd fall into the Get ****ing Huge catagory that I spoke of earlier.

The fat gain would be substantially less than normally.

Oh yes. Very much so. It's not perfect, and if you over-eat excessively you'll gain fat just like anybody, but it's much less likely to occur.

And for what it's worth, as a classic ectomorph I was never able to get above 170 lbs before I learned the art of gorge-eating.

I'm not saying it's the best approach for everyone, but for someone that has trouble adding size, or someone that just wants to GFH, it is a very viable tactic.

ryuage
12-03-2004, 03:00 PM
boy I wish I was an ectomorph

Vido
12-03-2004, 03:02 PM
boy I wish I was an ectomorph

I've been wishing that for years.

Severed Ties
12-03-2004, 03:17 PM
as ST stated, I'm a fat **** and I tend to gain fat as well as muscle rapidly (although not to the awful proportion he reported).


Hence why I'm on a diet year round....bulking for me means 3000cals per day,lol

ST

Severed Ties
12-03-2004, 03:17 PM
boy I wish I was an ectomorph

Me three!

ryuage
12-03-2004, 03:35 PM
how much you gaining on 3000 a day??

roidaroonie
12-03-2004, 06:35 PM
roidaroonie, and the "dirty" bulkers.... do you do cardio during your bulk, or do u stick to weight training? what is ur routine like?

To answer your question Big, I will start my bulking phase kind of gradually, I will still do 20-30 min of cardio 2-3 times a week. This will usually only be for 3 or 4 weeks or so into it. At the beginning of my bulking phase it is extremely difficult to eat alot because my stomach is not capable of it, so I will eat a few meals like I was dieting still, but then try to snack more throughout the day. The junk food or "calorie food" will only be a couple times a week. And just so nobody becomes confused about the "dirty bulk" I've mentioned, I always think its important to put red meat and good carb sources first, then junk on top of that if you feel it's necessary. If you examine the diet I've mentioned, it's still plentiful with red meat, rice and baked potatos. Good food should always be the staple of your diet, the pizza thing is NOT every week for me, just more towards the end of my diet. Basically the main difference between my cutting diet and bulking diet is instead of chicken and tuna ,its more red meat and I also eat the hell out of pasta. I believe when you eat is even more important than what you eat when your bulking. As stated, everybody is different. I am a classic mesomorph, and I pretty much have the best of both worlds, I can build muscle easier than an ectomorph, but burn fat faster than an endomorph. Learn what body type you are guys, then adjust your training intensity and frequency, and the style of your training accordingly. I believe that everybody can achieve a perfect body however it starts with knowledge of your own body, and the ONLY way to achieve this is through trial and error. I know my body so well that there are days where I dont even look at the clock when I eat, and find out when I'm done eating, sure enough it was right at 2.5-3 hours from my last meal. Know your body, become one with it, put your mind into it every day, live, eat, and breathe this ****, **** I love it!!!!!!!

PowerManDL
12-04-2004, 01:13 PM
I guess I'm "lucky" in a sense, because even though I joke about getting fat, what I consider fat and what you guys consider fat is probably two different things.

3000 calories for me is a diet. If I want to grow at this point, I've got to push no less than 4500 a day, with 5000 being closer to the magic number.

It's a trade-off I guess...harder for me to add size but easier to get and stay lean.

ryuage
12-04-2004, 01:36 PM
bastards

agentplaya1
12-05-2004, 01:07 AM
boy I wish I was an ectomorph

it's not all that. Tryin to put on muscle is a battle. Now a mesomorph, that's the place to be.

Jasonl
12-05-2004, 01:26 AM
bastards
Agreed! :ninja:

ryuage
12-05-2004, 03:21 AM
it's not all that. Tryin to put on muscle is a battle. Now a mesomorph, that's the place to be.

its a battle if you dont love food as much as I :)

agentplaya1
12-05-2004, 03:37 AM
I loooovve food, but being an ectomorph you just dont get cravings for it all the time. I have to remind myself to eat, set alarms, put up post it notes, to make sure I get in all 7 meals a day. that reminds me, I gotta go eat now. ahhh the burden of being an ectomorph. :(

roidaroonie
12-05-2004, 09:59 AM
Not advising anybody to do this, and I certainly dont condone this. I used to smoke weed to help me get hungrier and eat even more. It sounds stupid, but it worked wonders, and I mysteriously became bigger,hahahah

Vido
12-05-2004, 03:09 PM
Not advising anybody to do this, and I certainly dont condone this. I used to smoke weed to help me get hungrier and eat even more. It sounds stupid, but it worked wonders, and I mysteriously became bigger,hahahah

I wouldn't condone it either, but I've heard of a lot of people doing the same thing with good results. If you're already hungry 24/7 like I am, then there is no need.

agentplaya1
12-05-2004, 08:00 PM
Not advising anybody to do this, and I certainly dont condone this. I used to smoke weed to help me get hungrier and eat even more. It sounds stupid, but it worked wonders, and I mysteriously became bigger,hahahah

sweet advice, I just ordered a tub of weed. Is it ok to stack it with some coke and E? :D

HahnB
12-05-2004, 09:10 PM
Actually, I've eaten like this without anything besides protien powder before as well, the bigger you get the harder it is to gain muscle, there comes a point where calories count just as much as protien and carbs. If you honestly think that the Pros in the off season eat nothing but chicken and rice and take olive oil, you couldnt be more wrong bro. Read the interviews with some of these guys, Lee Priest eats all that crap I've listed times 10 in his off season. Why is it that on one of Ronnie Colemans web pages the opening page is a picture of him with a slice of pizza in his hand?? That doesnt exactly fit the bodybuilder image to the public eye. Maybe these guys know something that we dont. But certain drugs do help you burn fat faster, I'll give you that.

If you watch ronnies video in the off season he eats 4 meals a day. Egg whites/grits in the morning, 2 meals at black eye pea, and 1 meal at the outback steak house. I doubt he eats dominos on a regular basis.

Vido
12-05-2004, 09:29 PM
sweet advice, I just ordered a tub of weed. Is it ok to stack it with some coke and E? :D

No!

(Coke and E are cutting agents :D)

Vido
12-05-2004, 09:30 PM
If you watch ronnies video in the off season he eats 4 meals a day. Egg whites/grits in the morning, 2 meals at black eye pea, and 1 meal at the outback steak house. I doubt he eats dominos on a regular basis.

It's not pizza, but it's still not clean. Don't know what the point of this was...

HahnB
12-06-2004, 12:11 AM
It's not pizza, but it's still not clean. Don't know what the point of this was...

Steak and chicken breats are a lot cleaner than 11 pieces of pizza a day...

Vido
12-06-2004, 12:17 AM
Steak and chicken breats are a lot cleaner than 11 pieces of pizza a day...

Have you watched the whole video? He DOES eat steak and chicken breasts, but he eats a lot of crap with it...not 11 pieces of pizza mind you.

roidaroonie
12-06-2004, 07:35 AM
(Coke and E are cutting agents :D)[/QUOTE]

Exactly