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View Full Version : creatine and getting lean (loosing fat)....



krosspyder
12-12-2004, 08:55 PM
i need some help here. if my goal is to shed off the fat first and try to keep or grow a little more muscle mass... because im lifting weights.... and take creatine monohydrate, whey protein and L glutimine pills as well as underfeed myself (dieting) will i be able to loose fat and keep or add some muscle?

is this okay?

when i lift wieghts heres what i do...

two days out of week devoted to bench (chest) and biceps

two days out of week or one devoted to shoulders

3 days out of week on whatever day i do cardio... jog and situps.

when i lift i add wieghts.... so say i start with 130 on bench i add 10 pounds every set... i do 5 sets and 10 reps.

all the days im dieting.... underfeeding myself.

am i okay for loosing fat and stabilizing muscle or gaining a little of muscle mass? i know i cant gain a lot of muscle mass now because that would require me to over feed myself.


please help here. im just scared that i wont see any progress when i put forward this effort because i dont have the right information and im not versed in this stuff. i trying to shave off my ignorance by asking you all my specific questions. if anyone could be so kind to just respond and try to help me out i would be really appreciative.

thanks.

omarjiwa
12-12-2004, 11:03 PM
Yes you will lose weight and keep some of your muscle, but while you are losing weight you should also be working out to be gaining muscle

your schedule should be more like

monday:Chest/back
tuesday : Legs/shoulders
wednsday : off
thursday : biceps/triceps
friday : Cardio
saturday:cardio
sunday:cardio

sat and sunday can also be off, depends on how you feel
that was just a quick thing of what it could be
tell me what u think :)

Dirt
12-13-2004, 02:00 AM
Yes you will lose weight and keep some of your muscle, but while you are losing weight you should also be working out to be gaining muscle

You can't lose weight and gain muscle at the same time.

TTT
12-13-2004, 02:04 AM
I'd have to agree with Dirt there, from personal experience. If you don't have much muscle to start with though, then I think most people here would suggest you bulk up anyway, depending how much fat you're trying to lose..

Dirt
12-13-2004, 02:05 AM
i need some help here. if my goal is to shed off the fat first and try to keep or grow a little more muscle mass... because im lifting weights.... and take creatine monohydrate, whey protein and L glutimine pills as well as underfeed myself (dieting) will i be able to loose fat and keep or add some muscle?

is this okay?

when i lift wieghts heres what i do...

two days out of week devoted to bench (chest) and biceps

two days out of week or one devoted to shoulders

3 days out of week on whatever day i do cardio... jog and situps.

when i lift i add wieghts.... so say i start with 130 on bench i add 10 pounds every set... i do 5 sets and 10 reps.

all the days im dieting.... underfeeding myself.

am i okay for loosing fat and stabilizing muscle or gaining a little of muscle mass? i know i cant gain a lot of muscle mass now because that would require me to over feed myself.


please help here. im just scared that i wont see any progress when i put forward this effort because i dont have the right information and im not versed in this stuff. i trying to shave off my ignorance by asking you all my specific questions. if anyone could be so kind to just respond and try to help me out i would be really appreciative.

thanks.

First things first. That workout program is abysmal. You only work chest, biceps and shoulders (each 2x a week). Where in the world did you get that "program"? You need to get a real program. Period. You can look up some of the WBB programs off this site, or hell even looking in someone's journal would give you something better than that. The second thing you need to address is how do you know you're in caloric deficit? Are you counting calories? What is your maintenance caloric intake? Furthermore, situps don't constitute cardiovascular exercise and jogging isn't the best cardio either. You need to overhaul everything in order to see the results I'm sure you expect.

krosspyder
12-13-2004, 03:10 AM
First things first. That workout program is abysmal. You only work chest, biceps and shoulders (each 2x a week). Where in the world did you get that "program"? You need to get a real program. Period. You can look up some of the WBB programs off this site, or hell even looking in someone's journal would give you something better than that. The second thing you need to address is how do you know you're in caloric deficit? Are you counting calories? What is your maintenance caloric intake? Furthermore, situps don't constitute cardiovascular exercise and jogging isn't the best cardio either. You need to overhaul everything in order to see the results I'm sure you expect.


well im trying here. i dont know what to do. what will this program do... even if its abysmal? i have a hard time counting calories. it just seems so detailed and anal and im not that type of person. i cant be exact. but i could round off. thats besides the point. what program do you suggest for me? i cant really work much on legs or back since i dont have the machines for it or dont know how to work those areas. really... all i want is for my gut to be gone ...get smaller.... and my top to increase a little so it would really off set my stomach. im not lookin into being a really buff guy i just want to get leaner at this point. what cardio should i do?

krosspyder
12-13-2004, 03:12 AM
Yes you will lose weight and keep some of your muscle, but while you are losing weight you should also be working out to be gaining muscle

your schedule should be more like

monday:Chest/back
tuesday : Legs/shoulders
wednsday : off
thursday : biceps/triceps
friday : Cardio
saturday:cardio
sunday:cardio

sat and sunday can also be off, depends on how you feel
that was just a quick thing of what it could be
tell me what u think :)


whats wrong with bicepts and chest twice a week? what kind of cardio? thanks man.

krosspyder
12-13-2004, 03:16 AM
see the thing is here is that i cant find a program that works my specific need.

i want to maintain muslce or hopefully increase just a little and at the same time loose my gut and some unwanted fat. all these programs that i checked out are all for people who want to gain muscle. i dont see anything dealing with loosing gut and maintaining muscle.

also... in order for me to figure my caloric intake i have to be on top of **** 24 7 and thats kinda hard with my lifestyle. i barely have time to make my food. also i suck at math... i guess i just need a doc to do the numbers for me... tell me what EXACT foods to eat and what foods not to eat.

krosspyder
12-13-2004, 04:10 AM
i heard something about the "adams diet".... have you all heard about this?

i think thats what im looking for here? not sure.


okay i think i did this right.... i just figured out that i should be getting 2920 calories a day if i want to loose one pound of body fat per week. im having trouble figuring out the next parts. my BMR is 3420 so im definitly overweight. i think i got the BMR correct.

Nu Guy
06-02-2009, 04:45 PM
i hate to bump this old thread (especially for my first post), but i searched for the relation between supping with creatine and loosing fat at the same time and i saw this post...



You can't lose weight and gain muscle at the same time strength training.

i saw a few members agree with this, but i can say that i've lost thirty + pounds in the last 3.5 months and i've put on a considerable amount of muscle via strength training at the same time.

could someone please explain the logic to dirt's theory? :confused:

thanks.

vdizenzo
06-02-2009, 06:53 PM
i hate to bump this old thread (especially for my first post), but i searched for the relation between supping with creatine and loosing fat at the same time and i saw this post...




i saw a few members agree with this, but i can say that i've lost thirty + pounds in the last 3.5 months and i've put on a considerable amount of muscle via strength training at the same time.

could someone please explain the logic to dirt's theory? :confused:

thanks.



What is your proof?

Nu Guy
06-02-2009, 10:00 PM
What is your proof?

well, i didn't take any before and after pics, so i guess i can't give you that proof. but i've been into strength training and building muscle for close to 2 decades, off and on.

i'm 6' 3" and after being off for almost 3 years and gaining about 50 lbs from eating and not working out, i've went from 300 lbs to 266 lbs in 3 months, 2 weeks and 3 days, and i've probably re-gained 60-70 percent of my muscle that i had before i fell off. that means, i've lost a lot more than 34 pounds of fat because i've gained A LOT of my muscle back within this time.

because i'm eating right, doing my strength training 6 days a week and doing high intensity interval training, I'm still making considerable muscle gains as the fat and pounds slowly comes off. i hope to get down to about 235 lbs while still packing on more muscle. :nod:

so, i don't have proof to show you, but i know that Dirt's comment is obviously inaccurate because i'm living proof (even though i can't show you the proof).

but while you're asking me where my proof is, how about you posting your proof that i'm wrong? :confused:

i'll wait for your reply. :read:

Auburn
06-02-2009, 10:31 PM
Picture a bell curve, at the tail ends, the body does funny things due to hormonal regulation. These are the so-called 'newbie gains', or in your case, muscle memory. At the other end is metabolic syndrome patients that can't lose weight while on very low Calories because there hormonal system is so screwed. In the middle, the hormonal milieu takes a back seat and standard dogma applies. This is also part of the reason why drugs work so well.

Malice
06-03-2009, 05:13 AM
From reading what you have said about your goals, I personally would say it would be best to:

Focus on your heavy compound lifts (although you are not looking to add bulk or gain massive amounts of muscle, the calories burned from this exercise and the muscle gain will help alot)

Also do your chin ups/dips few other similar exercises.

Do a HIIT session a couple of times a week.

If you do this while eating around maintence youll lose fat and wont lose muscle.

Your diet/eating habbits will be play a very important role.


You can't lose weight and gain muscle at the same time strength training.

In the higher ranks of weightlifters and body builders this may be true, but for situations like this I think its complete nonsense.

Ive been lifting around a year now and ive lost around a stone in weight, whilst gaining signifcant lean mass and massively improving my lifts.

Obvious newbie gains, but this is what this guy is aiming for (i think).

vdizenzo
06-03-2009, 06:04 AM
well, i didn't take any before and after pics, so i guess i can't give you that proof. but i've been into strength training and building muscle for close to 2 decades, off and on.

i'm 6' 3" and after being off for almost 3 years and gaining about 50 lbs from eating and not working out, i've went from 300 lbs to 266 lbs in 3 months, 2 weeks and 3 days, and i've probably re-gained 60-70 percent of my muscle that i had before i fell off. that means, i've lost a lot more than 34 pounds of fat because i've gained A LOT of my muscle back within this time.

because i'm eating right, doing my strength training 6 days a week and doing high intensity interval training, I'm still making considerable muscle gains as the fat and pounds slowly comes off. i hope to get down to about 235 lbs while still packing on more muscle. :nod:

so, i don't have proof to show you, but i know that Dirt's comment is obviously inaccurate because i'm living proof (even though i can't show you the proof).

but while you're asking me where my proof is, how about you posting your proof that i'm wrong? :confused:

i'll wait for your reply. :read:


You built muscle for decades you say, then you stopped lifting for 3 years. Do you think all that muscle just went away? You lost weight/bodyfat and the muscle was still there. This is not some magic transformation. Maybe if you had bodyfat tested and an lbm to show some proof I would believe it. Otherwise it is just conjecture.

I have been around for decades also. Unless you are a complete newb and even then, it's rare to lose bodyweight weight while gaining lean body mass.

Nu Guy
06-03-2009, 06:18 AM
it's rare to lose bodyweight weight while gaining lean body mass.

i must be one of those rarities then.

oh, and thanks for posting your proof.

vdizenzo
06-03-2009, 07:16 AM
i must be one of those rarities then.

oh, and thanks for posting your proof.

Where is your proof? You are the one who stated what is probably a lie. You have no cred on this forum. Wait, let me guess, you are 2% bodyfat, bench 700 and squat 1100 raw in your garage with no spotters. You are a typical internet guru.

I do not have to prove anything to you. I have competed at the Olympia, the Arnold classic, have held world records, published articles, won prize money, have sponsors, hold seminars, etc. I get paid for my opinion in strength athletics. Do you?

Unless you are a complete newb losing weight and gaining muscle is not going to happen. Also, the odds of a complete newb getting everything right in training and dieting at the same time to accomplish this is highly unlikely. It's missleading to say otherwise.

Auburn
06-03-2009, 07:42 AM
i'm 6' 3" and after being off for almost 3 years and gaining about 50 lbs from eating and not working out, i've went from 300 lbs to 266 lbs in 3 months, 2 weeks and 3 days, and i've probably re-gained 60-70 percent of my muscle that i had before i fell off. that means, i've lost a lot more than 34 pounds of fat because i've gained A LOT of my muscle back within this time.

This is part that makes me think he might not be lying. There are anecdotal reports all over the map of things like this. The most famous probably being the Colorado Experiment w/ Viator and Jones. People have been trying to explain that one for a long time, but the concept seems to hold across the spectrum. Once the body has been built to a certain level (still contained in the meat of the bellcurve), a second "rebuilding" after a layoff doesn't take nearly as long or with necessarily the same rules as it took the first time.

vdizenzo
06-03-2009, 09:31 AM
If someone gained 50 lbs how would he lose muscle? If someone had worked out for decades, stopped training, and gained 50 lbs. then cut wouldn't that just reveal the muscle he once had? Are we to believe the muscle just atrophied away as he gained weight.

VDubb
06-03-2009, 09:42 AM
If someone gained 50 lbs how would he lose muscle? If someone had worked out for decades, stopped training, and gained 50 lbs. then cut wouldn't that just reveal the muscle he once had? Are we to believe the muscle just atrophied away as he gained weight.

^Exactly.....it probably *LOOKED* like he gained a bunch of muscle, when in reality, he just lost the fat that was covering his "2 decades" worth of "off and on" trained muscle........

vdizenzo
06-03-2009, 09:43 AM
^Exactly.....it probably *LOOKED* like he gained a bunch of muscle, when in reality, he just lost the fat that was covering his "2 decades" worth of "off and on" trained muscle........

Thank God, a resonable person. I am voting for you for president.

Auburn
06-03-2009, 10:29 AM
If muscle size was hyperplasia, I'd agree. But, it's hypertrophy. Once the signal is gone that is causing the body to retain that higher cross-sectional area, the body is quite happy to repartition that energy elsewhere. Just gaining weight will cause increases in lean tissue (mostly supportive, but certainly some usable muscle), but if one has muscle above the natural equilibrium in areas that are no longer stimulated (say, biceps or chest), why would there possibly be a reason to keep that tissue?

And, the exception here being anything that might lead to permanent increases in androgen receptor density (i.e. various anabolics). In these instances, you certainly see what appears to be permanent partitioning affects that keeps some people very large even without anymore training.

But, this instance could be a person that is too close to the situation to appraise his recomposition without biases affecting his judgment. I'm just debating whether or not the effect is possible.

vdizenzo
06-03-2009, 10:45 AM
Auburn, can we agree it's possible, but not probable?

Auburn
06-03-2009, 10:56 AM
Sure, I'd agree that's the more likely reality.

Nu Guy
06-03-2009, 03:03 PM
can we agree it's possible, but not probable?

now, that's something we can agree on! :nod:

Skelator03
06-03-2009, 03:23 PM
i like the TNT diet to cut personally worked well for me. but do more than underfeed really watch what you are putting in but TNT would help you with that and lays the guidlines out for you

http://forums.menshealth.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1991017124/m/1431038013

thanks everyone for those replys too i love looking at what everyone has to say

vdizenzo
06-03-2009, 07:26 PM
now, that's something we can agree on! :nod:

Cool.