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Prelude
11-13-2001, 07:36 AM
Hello I'm new to this board. I've been reading some of the posts and they really impressed me 'coz there seems to be a lot of knowledgeable peeps here. I just been recently introduced to the concept of Keto Diet and would like more info on it. A friend gave me a simple diet plan and could not believe the foods that you are allowed to eat. I'm currently 180 lbs 5'10 19-20%BF. My goal is to get lean.

Meal 1 - 3 eggs 2 strips bacon
Meal 2 - 1 can tuna in sunflower oil OR protein drink with flax
Meal 3 - 5 slices spam 1/2 cup spinach
Meal 4 - beef jerky 1tsp. flax oil OR protein drink with flax
Meal 5 - 8 oz. pork chop 1/2 cup green beens

-Keto diet Mon-Fri then Carb days on Sat. and Sun.
-Weight lift on Wed/Sat/Sun with 50g malt 50g dext postworkout

Please see if I'm on the right track. Thanks!!!

Wizard
11-13-2001, 07:41 AM
Originally posted by Prelude
Hello I'm new to this board. I've been reading some of the posts and they really impressed me 'coz there seems to be a lot of knowledgeable peeps here. I just been recently introduced to the concept of Keto Diet and would like more info on it. A friend gave me a simple diet plan and could not believe the foods that you are allowed to eat. I'm currently 180 lbs 5'10 19-20%BF. My goal is to get lean.

Meal 1 - 3 eggs 2 strips bacon
Meal 2 - 1 can tuna in sunflower oil OR protein drink with flax
Meal 3 - 5 slices spam 1/2 cup spinach
Meal 4 - beef jerky 1tsp. flax oil OR protein drink with flax
Meal 5 - 8 oz. pork chop 1/2 cup green beens

-Keto diet Mon-Fri then Carb days on Sat. and Sun.
-Weight lift on Wed/Sat/Sun with 50g malt 50g dext postworkout

Please see if I'm on the right track. Thanks!!!

This is a modified ketogenic diet called TKD.. Anyway.. try to consume 1.5 grams of fat for every 1 gram of protein.You seem to have more protein than needed.You also must consume less carbs postworkout.Have about 30grams,because with 50 it will take you ages to establish ketosis again.

Tryska
11-13-2001, 07:43 AM
for a keto to work well, you want to try to have a ratio of 75% fat to 25% protein. so far it looks like you are on the right track, just be careful with your sodium intake, as it seems pretty high.

umm..you might want to check out this link....

http://www.solid.net/lowcarb/lylemcd/

it has lots of info on ketos especially the style you are doing, and you might be able to pick up more tips from there.

Wizard
11-13-2001, 07:50 AM
Yeah,try to read the FAQ's there.(Thanx Tryksa)

However I'd suggest you to try a different type of diet.Try to learn some more things abut the bodybuilding nutrition and then you'll be able to configure not only a usual type of diet but more complex diets as keto as well.Anyway,the choice is yours.We're here for any questions.

Prelude
11-13-2001, 08:18 AM
Thanks for replying so soon. I read the link Tryska, WOW! I never thought it would be complicated like that. I don't think I can strictly follow that. What would you think will work at reducing my BF and keeping muscles as much as possible? How's this:


Meal 1 - 3 egg whites 1 cup oatmeal & 1tsp. flax oil
Meal 2 - low carb protein shake & apple OR banana
Meal 3 - 8 oz. skinless chicken breast & 1 cup green veggies
1tsp. olive oil
Meal 4 - same as Meal 2
Meal 5 - same as Meal 3


Weight lift on Wed/Sat/Sun with 50g malt 50g whey postworkout

I heard that 1AD is good for cutting for it preserves lean mass
that you already have and might lower your BF. What's your take on this?

Tryska
11-13-2001, 08:25 AM
well...what's worked for me so far, is lowering carbs..well actually, cutting out starchy, sugary, or grainy carbs, save one serving of grains each day, during the week, a cheat meal or day on friday, and then full keto saturday and sunday.

I'm in a unique position though, as it is difficult for me to cut, due to some metabolic issues that i have.

let me ask you a couple questions....what are your stats and BF%? how long have you been training? how long have you been cutting? what is your goal? if you can provide that, i think we can give you a better idea of a diet you can work with.

Wizard
11-13-2001, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by Prelude
Thanks for replying so soon. I read the link Tryska, WOW! I never thought it would be complicated like that. I don't think I can strictly follow that. What would you think will work at reducing my BF and keeping muscles as much as possible? How's this:


Meal 1 - 3 egg whites 1 cup oatmeal & 1tsp. flax oil
Meal 2 - low carb protein shake & apple OR banana
Meal 3 - 8 oz. skinless chicken breast & 1 cup green veggies
1tsp. olive oil
Meal 4 - same as Meal 2
Meal 5 - same as Meal 3


Weight lift on Wed/Sat/Sun with 50g malt 50g whey postworkout

I heard that 1AD is good for cutting for it preserves lean mass
that you already have and might lower your BF. What's your take on this?

Nice.Just don't have the fruit on the last two or if impossible at the last one meal.
Don't mess with prohormones like 1AD.
You can achieve better results without 'em.
Have your multivitamins and take a Calcium+VitD supplement and you're fine.

Wizard
11-13-2001, 08:30 AM
Originally posted by Tryska
well...what's worked for me so far, is lowering carbs..well actually, cutting out starchy, sugary, or grainy carbs, save one serving of grains each day, during the week, a cheat meal or day on friday, and then full keto saturday and sunday.


Very smart stategy indeed!

What I'm trying now,is high protein/med fat/low carbs in the week days(I play soccer 1-2 hours per day and then the only one carb meal,grain to be more precise,of the day).Then on Saturday I have more fat and on Sunday I do a refeed to increase metabolism.(primaly carbs and 20-30%above maintainance).

Tryska
11-13-2001, 08:35 AM
hmm...i actually like the idea of a re-feed on sunday.....one of the little quirks of how i;m doing things now, is that i do my assessment and stats on sunday. well if i do carb-up (cheat) on friday, i wind up holding water (about 2lbs) by the time sunday morning rolls around. (although a strict keto on saturday helps a bit, my numbers are still a bit off)...perhaps, i'll switch around, make friday and saturday keto, and then sunday carb-up. then again, it's easier, life-wise, to do the friday cheat then anything else. I don't know. I still haven't started adding in more carbs as we talked about to make allowances for the new training style i'm adopting.

Prelude
11-13-2001, 09:06 AM
"let me ask you a couple questions....what are your stats and BF%? how long have you been training? how long have you been cutting? what is your goal? if you can provide that, i think we can give you a better idea of a diet you can work with."

I'm currently 180 lbs 5'10 19-20%BF. My goal is to get lean. Been training for 11 mos. (just started bb) and cutting for 2 mos with this:

Mon - Chest / Tris / Should (2-3 sets ea. with 10-15 reps)
Wed - Legs / Abs / Gluts (2 sets ea. w/ 10-15 reps
Fri - Back / Bis (2-3 sets ea. w/ 10-15 reps)
Not including warm up sets.

How's this:

Meal 1 - 3 egg whites 1 apple & 1tsp. flax oil
Meal 2 - low carb protein shake
Meal 3 - 8 oz. skinless chicken breast & 1 cup green veggies
1tsp. olive oil
Meal 4 - same as Meal 2
Meal 5 - same as Meal 3



"well...what's worked for me so far, is lowering carbs..well actually, cutting out starchy, sugary, or grainy carbs, save one serving of grains each day, during the week, a cheat meal or day on friday, and then full keto saturday and sunday."

-Can you provide a sample meal plan


Thanks!!!



:D

Tryska
11-13-2001, 09:12 AM
wow..sample meal plan..*lol* i've been winging it so long, i can't remember.

okay, i found my journal with my original schedule in it. (blackie you prolly remember this)

1: Coffee + half n half, 1/2c cottage cheese, 1 tbsp flax oil
2: 1/2 c oats with 1/4 c blueberries
3: 1oz cheddar cheese
4: 3-4oz meat, 1c veggies
5: protein bar
6: 1c milk w/whey
7: large dinner salad with croutons, 3oz tuna, and Olive oil and Balsamic Vinagrette

i think that came out to be isocaloric (roughly 30/30/30)

and that's the skeleton i work off off during the week. on weekends i totally wing it, and just make sure there's no carbs in my meals at all, just protein and fat.

so that being said....what you have hashed out doesn't look remarkable different then mine.

Wizard
11-13-2001, 09:21 AM
Wow!Congrats for the diet!

but hey.. Croutons? tuttut What a fad diet..

j/k ;)

Tryska
11-13-2001, 09:23 AM
*lol*

what's a salad without croutons?? actually they are a really good kind too, made locally at the grocery i get everything from...basically just there bread, olive oil and garlic, baked. 12 of them aren't gonna kill me either...

Prelude
11-13-2001, 09:24 AM
OMG! don't you get hungry at all? With me, I get worried when I lower my Cals 'coz I'm afraid I'm gonna lose muscles. I guess I'll reduce my portions as I go deeper into my diet and modify them once in a while. Thanks!!!

Tryska
11-13-2001, 09:28 AM
wait wait wait wait.....this is 2000 kcal diet, taking into account, my health issues, and i'm female, so calorically, it will be lower then your requirements. Your best bet is to figure out what your maintenance calories are, and then subtract 250-500 cals from that figure, and take it from there...I'm betting it will wind up being around 2200 cals.

And no...i don't get hungry, but that is also my biggest drawback, because i can go all day wihtout eating, because i don't have hunger signals and i'll forget.

however....this was spaced out so that every 2-3 hours i was eating a small meal, usually containing protein and fat, so i really didn't get the opportunity to feel hungry.

Prelude
11-13-2001, 09:36 AM
With me, I gotta have meat in almost all my meals. If not my stomach starts to growl and I start to worry that my body starts to turn on my muscles. Maybe this is the reason why I'm not seeing the results I'm expecting.

Tryska
11-13-2001, 09:38 AM
no..that's a perfectly healthy response, and it makes sense, because carbs kinda move through your system quickly and easily...and you will feel hunger quickly, but with proteins/fat, they digest a bit slower, and they will give you a feeling of fullness for longer.

and i renege on the caloric amount i gave you, i'm thinking a good place to start is prolly closer to 2400.

Prelude
11-13-2001, 09:46 AM
Thanks! I'm glad I joined this board.

Tryska
11-13-2001, 09:55 AM
well we are glad you here! :D

Twizted
01-06-2002, 12:15 AM
im on a ckd right now and i've done alot of research on the topic.my first ckd i took my maintenance calories(the # of calories to maintain your present weight)subtracted 500 calories and divided the sum into 5 meals.i lost 9 pounds of fat in a month and i honestly had to force myself to eat as much as i did because of the apetitte suppressing effect of a ckd.with my current ckd i dropped 750 calories from maintenance and by the results of my ketone strips i'm burning more fat than with my previous ckd.i had problems with getting back into ketosis after my carb up which i'm guessing is because of the super compensation of muscle glycogen being released slowly into my system after the carb up(????)i've cut out my pre carb up workout because i feel the super compensation was detremental to my goals.i've also reduced my carb up period to 24 hours.i'm going to consume more protein in my carb up than most people recommend because i feel the insulin spike combined with abundant protein will be anabolic.hope i've helped you.

beginner18
01-06-2002, 08:41 AM
my first ckd i took my maintenance calories(the # of calories to maintain your present weight)subtracted 500 calories and divided the sum into 5 meals.

how can u work out your maintenance calories?

secondly.. with keto diets i heard its recomended to have 1.5-2g of fat per 1g of protein..

looking @ the keto diet sample given at http://www.hbstores.com/ckd.htm
it shows more protein than fat.. could some1 explain this to me?

Wizard
01-06-2002, 09:19 AM
As I wrote before it's not a ketogenic diet though the calories coming from fat sources are more than those coming from protein sources.
Your maintainance levels:Bodyweight x 15 (if you have a slow metabolism it's bw x 13 or 14)
The best way to define where you have to set your calories to be on maintainance levels is by trying and trying... there's not any accurate formula where you can be based on.

beginner18
01-06-2002, 04:53 PM
thanks :)

just wonderin, when under the keto diet, do you workout during the carb up days? or allow that time 4 your body to rest

Twizted
01-06-2002, 07:48 PM
you rest during the carb up.some people do a pre carb up full body workout(light high reps)it causes your muscles to store extra glycogen during the carb up

Wizard
01-07-2002, 04:34 AM
You just do a full body workout before starting the carb up.I believe that it's essential.