Hit/Beyond Brawn : Some questions

[hemants]

Greetings all, I am a 5'11, 180lbs 34 year old who just took up strength training about a year ago. For the first 8 months it was just ad hoc, and the last 4 months I have been making some gains using an abbreviated routine:

bench press
alternate dumbell shoulder press
chinups
squats
deadlifts

each exercise was done once a week with either squats or deadlifts but never both (lower back couldn't take it).

At 180 lbs I am probably about 18% bf and have very long arms and legs compared to my torso.

I understand the importance of rest which is why I used this routine but I can't help but thinking that some isolation work may help how I look aesthetically.

Specifically:

1. Should I do something for rear delts, traps, upper tricep?

2. Given that I don't usually have a spotter, should I use drop sets to increase intensity.

3. Am I working out too infrequently for a relative beginner at my age?

4. I currently do 2 work sets per exercise of 7 to 10 reps. Both sets are to failure, I can't help but thinking that a bit more volume would be useful. It certainly feels like I've worked harder if I do more sets.

5.Of the two main aspects of HIT (i) abbreviated routine (ii) adequate rest is one more important than the other?

I don't necessarily want to be huge but I would love to be a lean, strong 185. Rather than a lanky, former varsity racquet sport king, who can barely bench 120lbs and could afford to lose a bit around the waist.

Thanks

[Paul Stagg]

1. Should I do something for rear delts, traps, upper tricep?

** Not necessarily. I would include a row, though

2. Given that I don't usually have a spotter, should I use drop sets to increase intensity.

** If you want to, sure.

3. Am I working out too infrequently for a relative beginner at my age?

** IMHO, probably

4. I currently do 2 work sets per exercise of 7 to 10 reps. Both sets are to failure, I can't help but thinking that a bit more volume would be useful. It certainly feels like I've worked harder if I do more sets.

** Try a little more and see how you like it.

5.Of the two main aspects of HIT (i) abbreviated routine (ii) adequate rest is one more important than the other?

** Absolutely. Adequate rest.

** The questions I have for you:

Are you progressing

Do you feel like you could handle more work?

Is scheduling gym time a problem? Does anything interfere with you getting to the gym 3x a week?

[hemants]

Hi Paul,

Thanks for the reply.

A typical week would have me there 3x

Sunday: 6 min cardio warmup
Deadlifts or Squat
Dumbell presses


Tuesday: 40 min cardio

Thursday: 6 min cardio, Bench press, Chinups

I certainly feel like I could do more while at the gym but I do find, especially when I squat or deadlift, that I need the recovery time or I feel like I'm getting sick.

I have recently felt like I am starting to plateau and stop progressing.

Other info: typical day is 100g protein, 300g carb, 40g fat.

Just this week I switched from shoulder presses to doing 1 arm cables, side laterals, and front raises for rear, side and front delts respectively, and doing three sets of chins 1st : conventional, 2nd : 45 degrees to the chest wide overhand grip 3rd : >45 degrees to the waist underhand grip. I have also added 1 set of hammer curls and 1 set of standing regular curls on the back day, as well as lying tricep extensions, and chest flies on chest day.

I am torn between deviating from simplicity and the ability to chart progress and perhaps giving some work to muscles that may be underworked because others are taking all the load in compound movements.

[Paul Stagg]

Experiment with your training. Try more, try less.

Just make sure you focus on compound lifts, and you continue to progress.

Looks like you need to eat more protein, and I'd say you are not eating enough, period.

I think most people can handle far more work than what is suggested by McRobert and the HG folks.

[Behemouth]

definatly eat more. you should be getting at least 180 grams of protein per day

[gary]

They handle probably more than most of us. Most of us work on a split routine training each bodypart only once a week. Most of them do full body workouts twice a week. A major difference being, they do only 1-2 work sets whereas we typically do 3-5 worksets. A research found that the difference between results of doing 1 workset vs 3 workset is just 5%. Coupled with the fact that 1 workset guys do it twice a week, former can give better results than latter.

A common denominator between different training approaches is progression. The best training program is one in which you progress the most.

HG approach is better for one reason that you can devote more time to social/work life. Your gains might be slower than volume based training, but you would make gains for sure provided diet/rest is tuned.


Originally posted by Paul Stagg
I think most people can handle far more work than what is suggested by McRobert and the HG folks.

[chris mason]

I will agree with the general consensus. Try some extra sets and see if you respond positively. If you do, then keep it up until you stagnate, then reduce the sets. I wouldn't waste your time with cable laterals and the like. I agree with Paul that you should concentrate on compound movements. I also agree that 2000 kcals per day is insufficient if you desire to build a little mass. Why don't you try sticking with your original routine, but with the twist of covering all of the exercises in 2 days instead of 1. So, you could train Mon/Tues/Wed/Fri etc. I don't think you need to break up that few of sets into 3 different days. This would allow you to hit each bodypart 2 times in a single week, and allow you the increased volume you desire without adding additional sets to each individual workout. As you do this, bump your calories up to 2700 per day (with a similar fat/carb/protein mix). I bet you will see some great gains. Take the rest of this week off, and then start fresh next Monday. Start the increased calories today. Make sure you ALWAYS try to do that extra rep or increase the weight.

[hemants]

Thanks all for the suggestions. Based on the advice I am going to try the following:

1) Eat more. ~180g or protein the day after a work out and ~130-150 g on other days with an aim to get 2500 to 2700 calories.

2) Stick with 2 work sets of compound movements as the core of my routine but add specific isolation sets to increase intensity and throw my body a change up. But only after the core sets are completed.

Day 1 : Chinups, rows, shoulder presses, supplemented by some rear and front delt drop sets.

Day2 : Deadlifts, Bench presses, supplemented by, chest flys, and tricep extensions.

3) I think part of the problem has been that I have not been resting enough between work sets (30-40 seconds) and thus if I do the first set of say, 8 reps, the next one I fail at 4 or 5. Thus, I will try and rest 2 minutes between sets.

4) I will try and work out twice every 5 or 6 days as opposed to twice a week.

5) I will be more diligent in recording my workout progress in a journal. Management begins with measurement right?

Thanks again for all the suggestions. I will report back in a couple of months.

One more question, as I am not yet using a weight that requires me to use a barbell, could I do deadlifts using dumbells? Would there be any advantages/disadvantages to lowering the dumbells beside my feet as opposed to in front?

[chris mason]

Why don't you go ahead and use the barbells anyways. It will allow you to learn the movements and I believe, help you to progress a little quicker.

[Behemouth]

don't eat less protein just because you are not working out on that particular day. your muscles need to recover on your off days not while you are in the gym (that's where you try to destroy them) eat just as much protein even on off days. you should get at very least 1g of protein per lb of bodyweight.