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Patz
01-06-2005, 11:27 PM
Ok, so I've been working out for about 4 months. I've lost 5 pounds in a week when I was trying to drop weight, but I noticed that I was picking up strength and muscle pretty quick so I backed off on the dieting. I still am making fantastic gains in strength and size, and that motivates me to keep at it as I am going.

I also want to lose weight. I've been porky since I was about ten years old, with a short time weighing 200 after dropping 50lbs on the subway diet before Jarrod ever had his face on TV. I would like to lose weight again, and I feel like I'm disciplined enough to do it whenever I want, but now I don't know if I want to YET. I know from reading this forum for hours on end that you can't effectively build muscle and lose fat at the same time, and that in order to build muscle effectively you need to bulk. I have this theory that I'm already a fattie, so I should put on muscle a lot easier than if I lose a bunch of weight, and then try again. I also don't want to lose any of the gains I've made. I don't want to lose weight, then have to start on a bulking diet and do the whole process. I don't mind to do that, but not yet..and especially if I'm going to be thin and looking good for the first time in my adult life.

I'm currently 6'1 240 My arms, with a little fattie help are measuring 16in. My shoulders seem to increase every time I lift, along with my traps.

My main question here is what do you guys think would be best for me? Should I cut, and work from a healthier me? Should I lift hard for a couple more months, then cut? Should I do something else? I'm still pretty green on all of this stuff, so any help and critique is appreciated.

Also, do my forearms look small? They seem small to me. I don't work them since they seem to get pumped pretty good on deads and such, but I've been thinking of making one of those broom handle things.

Patz
01-06-2005, 11:30 PM
Oh, and yes..that is my little map of the hawaiian islands on my stomach.

KiwiBuilder
01-07-2005, 12:09 AM
Dude, first off let me confess that I really don't know enough to feel qualified to comment. However, if I were you, I would concentrate on cutting down to a weight that you are more comfortable with, then bulk from there.

Now, I say that because cutting down to a point where you can really see your muscle definition will boost your confidence no end, more so than bulking and your new muscle being hidden. Secondly you will potentially have several more months of muscle to lose when you do cut, so if you do now you are minimising your losses.

I am in pretty much the same boat, and am also wondering what to do. I am maybe 20 pounds over where I want to be at, and am wondering if I should just cut my intake slightly and slowly burn it off, or do a CKD... The thing that gets me is that my workout buddy is losing fat and building muscle the same time (despite all the claims that it can't be done), so I am worried that if I do do a serious cut he will just race so far ahead of me that I'll never catch up!

So, take from my answer what you will. Good luck.

latinomasfino
01-07-2005, 12:15 AM
Dude, first off let me confess that I really don't know enough to feel qualified to comment. However, if I were you, I would concentrate on cutting down to a weight that you are more comfortable with, then bulk from there.

Now, I say that because cutting down to a point where you can really see your muscle definition will boost your confidence no end, more so than bulking and your new muscle being hidden. Secondly you will potentially have several more months of muscle to lose when you do cut, so if you do now you are minimising your losses.

I am in pretty much the same boat, and am also wondering what to do. I am maybe 20 pounds over where I want to be at, and am wondering if I should just cut my intake slightly and slowly burn it off, or do a CKD... The thing that gets me is that my workout buddy is losing fat and building muscle the same time (despite all the claims that it can't be done), so I am worried that if I do do a serious cut he will just race so far ahead of me that I'll never catch up!

So, take from my answer what you will. Good luck.

dude my friend was on the same boat as well he was 225 back in sept b4 he started working out with me...he first wanted to shed all that fat by eating liess and diong tons of cardio but i told him that would be stupid instead i told him to follow me in weight training and just fixing up the diet soemwhat...now he is at 195 and has packed on some muslc and lost much fat...so yes u can do both just be patience...u need muscle first b4 u can cut if not ull just end up all skinny and flabby...not wut most want

Shark
01-07-2005, 12:16 AM
At your current bodyfat I would keep lifting hard and start dropping calories a bit. Get below 20% and then see how you feel. If you could get down to 15% you would be in solid shape to get back into bulking.

Patz
01-07-2005, 12:23 AM
Should I do my treadmill 3 times a week too, and just lose weight that way, along with the weights? Or do you mean just cut back on the calories and lift, and let that do the weight loss work to its max potential?

I'm not really "uncomfortable" with this weight for now. I'm used to carrying it and can easily jog for 30 minutes without stopping. As you can see I have pretty stout legs to hold me up. I'm 25, and have basically been 240 since I got out of high school, with the exception of the losing 50. Desk job helped me get it back.

latinomasfino
01-07-2005, 12:34 AM
Should I do my treadmill 3 times a week too, and just lose weight that way, along with the weights? Or do you mean just cut back on the calories and lift, and let that do the weight loss work to its max potential?

I'm not really "uncomfortable" with this weight for now. I'm used to carrying it and can easily jog for 30 minutes without stopping. As you can see I have pretty stout legs to hold me up. I'm 25, and have basically been 240 since I got out of high school, with the exception of the losing 50. Desk job helped me get it back.

yea u can do the thread mill to but that shouldnt be ur priority see by just doing cardio u will lose weight temporarily but if u increase ur musle mass well ur metabolism will increase becaeuse muscle requires 3 x more energy than fat...yes just be patient if weight train and fixing ur diet doenst help then u might have a malfunction thyroid...this guy i know had that he would try evrything but no luck he woudlnt loose weight...also umm in terms of diet just start eating more around to start off like 4-5 times a day...drink a lot of water for u like 1.5 gallons...also more vegetables umm no rice less carbs more chicken and tuna less beef...ur tryin to establish a lifestyle not a diet...my frnied had some trouble adjusting at first but now lol hes addicted and is dedicated...ocne u get to that stage its all GOOD things from thereafter GOOD LUCK MAN :p

AdmiralDan
01-07-2005, 06:27 AM
I'm with latinomasfino. read the sticky on what a bodybuilder eats and eat those type of foods. you don't have start eating only those foods right away, but ease them into your diet and eventually have them dominate it. eat fewer carbs and make sure you are at a caloric defecit, though not too much or you will lose muscle and fat

mattburns
01-07-2005, 09:39 AM
you have a similar physique to briancurran01, you should check out his journals they may help you out.

best of luck :thumbup:

sublime99
01-07-2005, 10:34 AM
CUT drop your cals and still lift moderatley until you achieve 15-18 bf% then think about bulking, BUT a clean bulk. You need to eat clean, do a search on what bodybuilder eat that should help you immensley. Definetley CUt! :hello:

Patz
01-08-2005, 02:03 AM
Stay off the cardio completely?

Should I do cardio maybe a couple times a week?

I guess I'm confused..I lift 3-4 days a week for 4 months..I always drink a lot of water, and have been for over a year...i was doing cardio 2-3 times a week too, but i have to take it easy on my knees because of the stress from the weights too..losing the weight isn't the issue, it's when to lose it..i can drop my calories, and get on a 5-6 meal plan and lift only. Is that what I should do? Or something else? It seems to me that gaining muscle would be easier with all the extra weight I have, and maybe that was chrisrussow's point of lifting only and cutting calories. I still get the muscle benefit, and drop some weight too from the actual exercise and calorie drop.

Am I making any sense here?

Geeper
01-08-2005, 09:03 AM
From someone that was 275......

Get your Dr to fully check you over, (including thyroid)

Lift, eat clean, cheat once a week, and do cardio every second day (cardio MUST be hitting the right heart rate or you're just wasting your time!)

That's it, simple. It sucks, but it's all about hard work and no one can do it but you.

Just think how long it took you to put that weight on, don't expect it to come off in a week. (PS- 5 pounds a week is a lot of weight to loose!) And everytime you feel like cheating just think "I had 20 years to eat what every the **** I wanted to eat, now I have to eat for my health. 20 Years is a long time to do whatever you want"

Patz
01-08-2005, 11:33 AM
I'm sure my thryoid is fine. I've never had trouble losing weight if I try. I've just amde good progress with the weights, and for the first time in my life I enjoy working out. I didn't know if I wanted to slow or even stall that progress by dieting, but I think I'm going to. I can drop 30 pounds in 6-8 weeks pretty easily, I just never had the discipline until now. I appreciate the feedback guys.

Patz
01-14-2005, 12:05 AM
I got my diet stuff today. I'm gonna start it this weekend. I found 32 servings of vanilla whey for 11 dollars...that seems cheap to me. Also I picked up vitamin C, and b-complex..also some fish oil capsules and green tea to drink (i drink tea every day anyway, so i opted against the pills). I bought only foods that were on the "what a bodybuilder eats" list, and am gonna follow the cutting guide on that same sticky. I'll post pics soon.

Lance
01-15-2005, 10:27 PM
I'm glad to hear it, if all goes well, you are putting yourself at risk of an obsessive lifestyle that i'm addicted to. And now for a couple random tid bits:

1) The leaner you are, the higher your "Partitioning Ratio" (P:Ratio). This means more energy from the diet will be directed towards lean body mass. The opposite is true if you are fat.

2) The P:Ratio also works in the same way while dieting. The leaner you are, the more lean mass you will lose while dieting. The opposite is true if you are fat.

*8) Using additional testosterone significantly increases a person's P:Ratio. I have seen lean guys weighing 230-240 able to consume 4,500-5,000 calories per day and still get leaner each week unless they pushed the calories even higher. This is extremely unusual for a natural lifter, so unusual I have never seen it happen. My comments on diet are always based on the assumption that an individual is training naturally.

If you want to verify this information, let it be known that this is Lyle McDonald speaking. Maybe you'll respect that, maybe you'll think he's full of ****. Take it as you will, i'm just trying to add more reason for you to cut. =)

Patz
01-15-2005, 11:16 PM
Thanks for the input...I'll keep that stuff in mind.

You know, I don't know what all the whining is about whey powder as far as taste. I had my first ever whey shake tonight, and it wasn't bad. 2 scoops, 2 cups of milk, and a cup of oats for about 66g of protein post-workout. I kinda enjoyed for what it was and the benefit of it.

Jabberwocky
01-17-2005, 09:01 PM
Whey doesent bother me, after 10# of vanilla I am looking forward to getting some chocolate though.

On cardio, I do seven days a week 25 mins a day. I do elleptical trainer though, and you might prefer this because it eliminates impact and you burn more calories.

You and I have similar body types, and if I were you I would cut down to 200 like I am.

As far as diet I would keep it simple with 2500 calories a day, 250 gr. protein, and moderate fats and bad carbs.

Patz
01-17-2005, 10:29 PM
Whey doesent bother me, after 10# of vanilla I am looking forward to getting some chocolate though.

On cardio, I do seven days a week 25 mins a day. I do elleptical trainer though, and you might prefer this because it eliminates impact and you burn more calories.

You and I have similar body types, and if I were you I would cut down to 200 like I am.

As far as diet I would keep it simple with 2500 calories a day, 250 gr. protein, and moderate fats and bad carbs.

I decided to post pics after I saw yours. I figured if you weren't afraid to, then I was gonna do it too.

That's about what I did today for my first cut day. 2400 calories, 60g fat, and half of it was monounsaturated..I had 250g of protein even, and 200g of good carbs from a whole wheat pita, oats, and a baked potato..my only carbs after 5pm was the baked potato..this all seem pretty ok to me..if not, someone please guide me along

Along with this I had a killer back and bicep day and set some personal bests, as I keep seeming to do regularly. I have a workout partner now, which helps a great deal. Tomorrow I'm treadmilling..no elliptical trainer to use.

briancurran01
01-18-2005, 07:38 AM
Ok, so I've been working out for about 4 months. I've lost 5 pounds in a week when I was trying to drop weight, but I noticed that I was picking up strength and muscle pretty quick so I backed off on the dieting. I still am making fantastic gains in strength and size, and that motivates me to keep at it as I am going.

I also want to lose weight. I've been porky since I was about ten years old, with a short time weighing 200 after dropping 50lbs on the subway diet before Jarrod ever had his face on TV. I would like to lose weight again, and I feel like I'm disciplined enough to do it whenever I want, but now I don't know if I want to YET. I know from reading this forum for hours on end that you can't effectively build muscle and lose fat at the same time, and that in order to build muscle effectively you need to bulk. I have this theory that I'm already a fattie, so I should put on muscle a lot easier than if I lose a bunch of weight, and then try again. I also don't want to lose any of the gains I've made. I don't want to lose weight, then have to start on a bulking diet and do the whole process. I don't mind to do that, but not yet..and especially if I'm going to be thin and looking good for the first time in my adult life.

I'm currently 6'1 240 My arms, with a little fattie help are measuring 16in. My shoulders seem to increase every time I lift, along with my traps.

My main question here is what do you guys think would be best for me? Should I cut, and work from a healthier me? Should I lift hard for a couple more months, then cut? Should I do something else? I'm still pretty green on all of this stuff, so any help and critique is appreciated.

Also, do my forearms look small? They seem small to me. I don't work them since they seem to get pumped pretty good on deads and such, but I've been thinking of making one of those broom handle things.

nice work man...you and I have very similar body types as others have mentioned...if you want to drop weight quick i suggest taking a peep at my journal I am on a PSMF diet and dropping about 2 to 3 pounds a day and it has all been fat.

also i have some pics up here also if you want to check them out and see how far i have come on this psmf diet

Patz
01-18-2005, 09:43 PM
I've seen you pics several times for motivation. Your determination and progress is nothing short of amazing. Hats off.

I was on a slightly less hardcore version of the PSMF for a couple weeks, and in that first week dropped 5lbs. It was TOO harcore for me. I think I have blood sugar issues sometimes, so I gotta get some carbs in during the day, and I wasn't doing that on that diet. Right now, I'm trying to stick with 2300-2500 calories, which should be under my bodyweightx12, and keeping at it with the weights. I don't mind to lose it slow, so long as I'm losing. I'm finally getting a lot of protein in too, which I couldn't seem to do. I've since added a whey shake in to make up the difference. Just knowing how I do when I eat good foods and exercise regularly, I bet I'll lose 3-4 pounds per week doing this, and that's more than fine. I'm shooting to get to 200-210.

Thanks for the support.

Patz
01-18-2005, 09:44 PM
oh yeah..when are you posting your update pics?

briancurran01
01-19-2005, 07:34 AM
I am posting new update pics probably this sunday.

i have diabetes..so i know about blood sugar issues...my blood sugar runs low on the psmf but I do allright with it low just get very tired.

nothing beats the psmf for ripping off the fat though

Patz
01-20-2005, 10:30 PM
That sounds dangerous. Didn't you have some sort of strokes a while back?

briancurran01
01-21-2005, 03:33 AM
that was just migraines it was determined after testing...stress related entirely

Patz
01-21-2005, 08:36 PM
oh..that's good..my dad's diabetic (he's 6'0..160..54 and just dianosed after thyroid cancer surgery 6 years ago), and my mom (5'0 120) is borderline, so i'm trying to get away from it now while i have a shot, although weight doesn't seem to have a lot to do with it in my family. I've cut high GI foods out almost entirely, and am trying to just keep things natural, and eat slow carbs.