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Mr. Tech
01-08-2005, 12:23 AM
Hey there,

I've been training in the morning after I wake up, just after I walk. However I do not eat before I train.

Should I eat my breakfast before I train or after?
And is there anything special that I do need to eat before hand?

Cheers

Ben

Adam
01-08-2005, 12:36 AM
Definately eat something. But make it something easy on your stomach and not big.
1/2cup of oatmeal and a protein shake would do plenty.

smalls
01-08-2005, 01:11 AM
I would probably make it even simpler carbs, just depends on how long you give yourself after you eat. I usually eat about an hour before I workout.

Adam
01-08-2005, 01:37 AM
Yeah, i forgot to mention that.
My wake up meal is 1-2packs of instant oatmeal with a shakein either water or milk

Rik-s
01-08-2005, 04:01 AM
Piece of fruit (banana i choose) and a protien shake pre-WO. Then your full breakfast meal directly afterwards with some simple carbs...energy drink or more fruit to halt catabolism.

ryuage
01-08-2005, 04:38 AM
sometimes I train 5-30 minutes after waking up ill down some malto/whey

NOPowerPaul
01-08-2005, 08:43 AM
I do the same, I get up eat breakfast and then train. What I was doing was having a 150G bowl of Bran Flakes with 250ML skimmed milk, an apple, banana and 15G of some kind of nuts and a protein shake and creatine.

However this put me over the 40G of protein per meal rule so I was forced to cut out the protein shake.

I'll then train about 15 mins later for about an hour or less. Then have 80G of Oats, protein shake and 15G of some kind of nuts. My PWM is consumed right away after training.

I miss my breakfast (Pre workout) protein shake and feel it shows during my training but if I have it then I'm hitting 70G protein in that one meal.

abwowang
01-08-2005, 11:08 AM
that instant oatmeal thing..
thats real healthy right?
is it cheap?..
how instant is it.. i never had it .. might sound like a good idea

Cynical_Simian
01-08-2005, 11:14 AM
that instant oatmeal thing..
thats real healthy right?
is it cheap?..
how instant is it.. i never had it .. might sound like a good idea

Instant oatmeal sucks. Even if you get plain packets instead of the sugar-loaded ones, it still has a high GI because it's ground up so finely. Also, it's relatively expensive. Buy a big canister of regular oatmeal or steel-cut oats instead; it's a lot cheaper and better for you and only takes a couple minutes longer to prepare in the microwave.

Adam
01-08-2005, 04:12 PM
Its not healthy like an apple, but its 1000X better then a burger;)
Its really cheap, i get it for as low as 10packs for 1.50canadain
It has sugar, but in the morning your liver is pretty depleted of glucogen so it will go there and not be stored as fat. Its a higher GI cause of the sugar but thats what you want before training.

Optimum08
01-08-2005, 06:04 PM
hey Paul...why do u have this no meal over 70G of protein especially when u stated that u think it might be hindering your workout? i would just have the protein shake and have a killer workout...and i try to get as much protein in me as possible...

BigE54
01-08-2005, 09:13 PM
Deffinately need to eat something for energy. :burger:

smalls
01-09-2005, 01:24 AM
I do the same, I get up eat breakfast and then train. What I was doing was having a 150G bowl of Bran Flakes with 250ML skimmed milk, an apple, banana and 15G of some kind of nuts and a protein shake and creatine.

However this put me over the 40G of protein per meal rule so I was forced to cut out the protein shake.

I'll then train about 15 mins later for about an hour or less. Then have 80G of Oats, protein shake and 15G of some kind of nuts. My PWM is consumed right away after training.

I miss my breakfast (Pre workout) protein shake and feel it shows during my training but if I have it then I'm hitting 70G protein in that one meal.

Somebody lied to you bro, their is no 40g per meal rule. Leave the shake in your breakfast meal, your gains with thanks you.

smalls
01-09-2005, 01:28 AM
Instant oatmeal sucks. Even if you get plain packets instead of the sugar-loaded ones, it still has a high GI because it's ground up so finely. Also, it's relatively expensive. Buy a big canister of regular oatmeal or steel-cut oats instead; it's a lot cheaper and better for you and only takes a couple minutes longer to prepare in the microwave.

The price thing I can understand, but there is like 10 grams of sugar in each packet, it's not gonna kill ya. And actually before a workout I would rather have the simpler carbs.

I ate at least 4 cups (8 servings) of plain oatmeal a day during my bulking perdiods for well over a year. After not having oatmeal in a while I had some instant oatmeal a few days ago, damn that stuffs tasty.

NOPowerPaul
01-09-2005, 04:35 AM
I had read that the body cannot absorb and utilise correctly more than 40grams of protein per meal. Numerous articles state anything over 40G is turned straight to fat.

I have to admit I did question it because a lot of my meals are around 45-70grams of protein per meal and it didn't seem to have any negative affects, quite the opposite.

So I take it I can have my 70G protein pre workout breakfast meal. I guess it also means I can have my favourite last meal of the day of 2 fried eggs with four peices of whole wheat toast and a protein shake.

I hate all the mis-information aarggh.

smalls
01-09-2005, 01:07 PM
The body will convert extra protein to carbs before ever converting it to fat, which will only happen if all your macronutrient needs are met and exceeded. Many of my meals have well over 75 grams of protein. If your results indicate it's working well and you like it, continue on.

Mr. Tech
01-09-2005, 03:09 PM
Thanks guys,

And how long is it recommened I train after I eat?

Thanks

Ben

LadyLifter
01-09-2005, 04:02 PM
Ideally you would eat, workout, and eat again, making sure to keep a constant flow of protein in your system. After working out you don't want to eat a lot of fats because that will slow down your system but you do want a fast digesting protein and carbs with a high Glycemic Index. If you can't workout right after and right before eating (I can't) wait a little while but as soon as you can hit the gym.

fen2zla
01-09-2005, 09:29 PM
The body will convert extra protein to carbs before ever converting it to fat

How does protein get converted to carbs?
:confused:

ectx
01-09-2005, 09:35 PM
How does protein get converted to carbs?
:confused:

It doesn't. I think what smalls meant was that protein will be used for energy.

Adam
01-09-2005, 10:33 PM
glucogenasis.... or something makes protein into glucose...or something.

fen2zla
01-09-2005, 10:50 PM
It doesn't. I think what smalls meant was that protein will be used for energy.

Oh ok, now I understand.



glucogenasis.... or something makes protein into glucose...or something.

:D I will do a search for glucogenasis.

ectx
01-09-2005, 11:41 PM
glucogenasis.... or something makes protein into glucose...or something.

Adam, gluconeogenesis is the process by which pyruvate is converted back to glucose. Your brain can only run well on glucose and this is how it makes it. In the event of high protein diets where it has no glucose it runs poorly on ketone bodies.

wannab250
01-09-2005, 11:46 PM
sorry to but in but all you guys are saying when you are bulking you are eating alot of oatmeal and protein and stuff, but i thought when you are bulking you are mainly going for calories??? its weird cuz alot of people live by calories and alot live by protein, what should i mainly go for? i need 20 more lbs? once again sorry to but in

smalls
01-10-2005, 01:04 AM
Sorry poor choice of wording, it may be incorect but gluconeogenisis is the term commonly used to describe the process by which protein is used as an energy source.

smalls
01-10-2005, 01:13 AM
Actually I think gluconeogenisis is used to describe the process of making glucose from a number of different substrates, pyruvate, lactate, amino acids, glycerol and 1 or 2 more.

smalls
01-10-2005, 01:14 AM
sorry to but in but all you guys are saying when you are bulking you are eating alot of oatmeal and protein and stuff, but i thought when you are bulking you are mainly going for calories??? its weird cuz alot of people live by calories and alot live by protein, what should i mainly go for? i need 20 more lbs? once again sorry to but in

I think calories are what you should focus on. Without meeting your caloric needs all the protein in the world aint gonna do you much good. That being said I still take in an excessive amount of protein.

Mr. Tech
01-10-2005, 02:08 AM
Another quick questions, I've got these three supplements:

Protein
High Calorie Drink
Cretine

When and how many times should I take these everyday? Do I take them on days I don't train too?

Cheers

TTT
01-10-2005, 02:31 AM
No, that's correct. Protein can be used by going through the reverse of glycolysis and be converted to glucose = energy. Therefore, even if you're on a protein-only diet, you can still get carbs for energy, albeit at a much slower rate (and you'll therefore have no 'energy') :)

ectx
01-10-2005, 02:38 AM
Sorry poor choice of wording, it may be incorect but gluconeogenisis is the term commonly used to describe the process by which protein is used as an energy source.

Some medical dictionaries describe it as such, but by strictest definition, it's the process by which pyruvate is converted back to glucose. It's essentially the reverse of glycolysis, but with a few different enzymes. How that pyruvate is derived, however is another story.

fen2zla
01-10-2005, 03:41 AM
You guy's make my head hurt :(

But i'm learning new stuff, so it's a good thing.

NOPowerPaul
01-10-2005, 04:36 AM
First off I have always worked out but never sorted out my diet until the last month. I now get enough calories, protein, fats and carbs, water from clean foods. Get plenty of rest and eat at least every three hours.

With all the advice here my squat has gone from 70KG to 96KG in a month (no B.S).

The main contributing factor is the pre-workout and post-workout meal:-

7AM I down about 70 Grams of Protein, 180 Grams of Carbs and 15 Grams of fat (95% coming from nuts). I take me three creatine tablets whilst eating this.

7:45AM I hit the weights with more energy than I have ever felt before.

8:45AM I have 80G of oats in water with good serving of honey and my second protein shake of the day and 15G of nuts. Three more creatine tablets.

Personally for me I'm finding this routine amazing. Poundages on everything are shooting up (Apart from my bench press - I loose the battle every week) and my body is getting large fast with very little fat. I do an hour cardio on off days which for more is four times a week. It aint for everyone but I'm addicted to cardio and I've cut down from 12 hours per week to 4.

Oh yeah and I get a protein shake, carbs and nuts about 2 hours before down time.

Anyway the point of the post is this way of eating training, eating appears to work.

smalls
01-10-2005, 09:53 AM
Some medical dictionaries describe it as such, but by strictest definition, it's the process by which pyruvate is converted back to glucose. It's essentially the reverse of glycolysis, but with a few different enzymes. How that pyruvate is derived, however is another story.

OK, I gotcha. The skelatal structures of the amino acids go through a few steps of conversion to become pyruvate then go through gluconeogenisis, correct?
I just started school again today, I can't be expected to learn **** outside of a forcefed setting, you bastard.

TTT
01-10-2005, 11:39 AM
Yeah, I'm pretty sure that's right. I haven't studied that in awhile, either :)

I don't think the pyruvate gets committed to other (further) use until it enters the TCA cycle.

Mr. Tech
01-10-2005, 05:22 PM
The main contributing factor is the pre-workout and post-workout meal:-

7AM I down about 70 Grams of Protein, 180 Grams of Carbs and 15 Grams of fat (95% coming from nuts). I take me three creatine tablets whilst eating this.

7:45AM I hit the weights with more energy than I have ever felt before.

8:45AM I have 80G of oats in water with good serving of honey and my second protein shake of the day and 15G of nuts. Three more creatine tablets.

Thanks Paul for your input. I'm full of questions today :) Here's a few:

Where are you getting the 70 Grams of Protein and 180 Grams of Carbs from at 7:00AM? Shakes?

Do you eat this way on off days?

Last of all how many days do you train a week?

Cheers

Ben

NOPowerPaul
01-11-2005, 04:27 AM
I train Mon, Wed and Friday on weights and then Tues, Thurs, Sat and Sun I do an hour of intense cardio first thing in the morning upon waking.

My breakfast is the same every morning:-

150G Bran Flakes with 250 ML Skimmed Milk ( aids my terrible digestive tract )
1 Scoop Protein with 400 ML Skimmed Milk
Banana about 150G
Apple about 130G
Wallnut Peices 15G

I also take my first 3 creatine tablets with this meal on weights days. So on weight days I have this and then hit the weights. On non-weight days ( cardio ) I will get up at the same time get some water down me ( not too much ), have an apple ( to kick in the metabolism ) and then do the cardio. I then shower and prepare this meal and eat it.

In all honesty it has been working great for me but everyone is different and it might have no benefit to you. I think though that the idea behind it is about right though.

I also take a lot of vitamins etc prior to this meal.

Don't forget the post (weight) workout meal is just as crucial as the pre (breakfast) meal.

ectx
01-12-2005, 11:13 PM
OK, I gotcha. The skelatal structures of the amino acids go through a few steps of conversion to become pyruvate then go through gluconeogenisis, correct?
I just started school again today, I can't be expected to learn **** outside of a forcefed setting, you bastard.

I have a father! Thank you very much. LOL. Sorry about being picky. The main substrate for gluconeogenesis is pyruvate. It can be kicked back up to turn into glucose, or split up by the PDH complex to form acetylCoA and feed into the kreb cycle for ATP production.

smalls
01-12-2005, 11:49 PM
I actually appreciate you making me look into it further, it helped clarify some things that physiology and basic nutrition courses didnt (but that's my fault for not buying the book). See I knew learning could be fun.
I'm sure your dads a good guy, no hard feelings. LOL