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View Full Version : Fruit...what's good about it?



Collegekid
01-25-2005, 11:38 AM
I was just thinking, other than a few grams of fiber, fruit isn't really that great. Sure it has vitamins, but if you take a good multi-vitamin you're set anyway.

My question is, if I'm bulking and I'm looking for a carb source for a snack (to go along with some protein), am I better off grabbing an apple or a more complex carb (like this Quaker oat bran cold cereal I just got)

Vapour Trails
01-25-2005, 11:52 AM
The vitamins and minerals from food generally are absorbed more fully than those from multi-vitamins. Also, there are other compounds of benefit other than vitamins that exist in natural food.

TheGimp
01-25-2005, 12:28 PM
Like VT says, a multivit is not the same as getting minerals and vitamins from real food.

There are also phytonutrients to consider.

abwowang
01-27-2005, 08:34 PM
fruit is great..
i love fruit..

i dunno the answer to ur question.. !
i just love fruit!

fixationdarknes
01-27-2005, 08:42 PM
Hm...doesn't some fruit have antioxidants and stuff? Also, fruit tastes good IMO.

Holto
01-28-2005, 09:32 AM
Hm...doesn't some fruit have antioxidants and stuff?

some really exotic ones like Vitamin C...

just having fun bro...

the muscle mags hype up anti-oxidants as some really hard to find nutrients

Teufelhund
01-28-2005, 09:49 AM
Fruit is one of my favorite things in the world man. There is never a time when my kitchen isn't literally stuffed with apples, oranges, lemons, bananas, kiwi, grapes, pears, mango and seasonal stuff like strawberries and watermelon... Fruit is awesome! especially chilled.

However, I would say that if you are looking for a carb source oats would be the better choice, unless you're looking for post-workout carbs. Then fruit would be better.

Max-Mex
01-28-2005, 10:06 AM
Cause they do a body good....pass it on.

Glaim
01-28-2005, 10:24 AM
However, I would say that if you are looking for a carb source oats would be the better choice, unless you're looking for post-workout carbs. Then fruit would be better.

"Fructose, on the other hand, is metabolized differently due to its structure. In the liver, fructose is metabolized and can replenish glycogen (liver only) or can form triglycerides. Due to the fact that fructose doesn't cause a substantial rise in blood sugar (it's too busy filling liver glycogen stores and creating triglycerides), it doesn't stimulate insulin secretion to any large extent. "

Taken from John Berardi's "Carb Roundtable" article...wouldn't that suggest fruit is a really bad post workout carb? No insulin spike...no glycogen replenished in the muscle?

getfit
01-28-2005, 10:38 AM
fruit is great..
i love fruit..

i dunno the answer to ur question.. !
i just love fruit!
mmmmmmmmm me 2 i eat fruit all day yum :)

TheGimp
01-28-2005, 11:04 AM
"Fructose, on the other hand, is metabolized differently due to its structure. In the liver, fructose is metabolized and can replenish glycogen (liver only) or can form triglycerides. Due to the fact that fructose doesn't cause a substantial rise in blood sugar (it's too busy filling liver glycogen stores and creating triglycerides), it doesn't stimulate insulin secretion to any large extent. "

Taken from John Berardi's "Carb Roundtable" article...wouldn't that suggest fruit is a really bad post workout carb? No insulin spike...no glycogen replenished in the muscle?


Correct. Fruit is not an ideal source of carbs post workout.

Teufelhund
01-28-2005, 11:29 AM
whoops! I did not mean to imply that fruits are an ideal post-workout carb source. I just thought they would be better than the other choice he gave, oats. Perhaps they are still not the better choice? At any rate, the vitamins, antioxidants, and other nutrients they contain all make eating fruits a worthwhile endeavor.

TheGimp
01-28-2005, 11:34 AM
Oats would still be better. I'm not bashing fruit at all, it's great, just not postworkout :)

smalls
01-28-2005, 11:41 AM
"Fructose, on the other hand, is metabolized differently due to its structure. In the liver, fructose is metabolized and can replenish glycogen (liver only) or can form triglycerides. Due to the fact that fructose doesn't cause a substantial rise in blood sugar (it's too busy filling liver glycogen stores and creating triglycerides), it doesn't stimulate insulin secretion to any large extent. "

Taken from John Berardi's "Carb Roundtable" article...wouldn't that suggest fruit is a really bad post workout carb? No insulin spike...no glycogen replenished in the muscle?

Liver glycogen saturation is hugely important for protein synthesis. A fast digesting carb and protein source with some fructose or a low fiber fruit added is just fine as a PWO shake source. Fruit along is probably not your best bet.

waynis
01-28-2005, 02:22 PM
I was just thinking, other than a few grams of fiber, fruit isn't really that great. Sure it has vitamins, but if you take a good multi-vitamin you're set anyway.

My question is, if I'm bulking and I'm looking for a carb source for a snack (to go along with some protein), am I better off grabbing an apple or a more complex carb (like this Quaker oat bran cold cereal I just got)

supplements never replace real food. Apple would be a great option.

TheGimp
01-28-2005, 02:24 PM
Liver glycogen saturation is hugely important for protein synthesis. A fast digesting carb and protein source with some fructose or a low fiber fruit added is just fine as a PWO shake source. Fruit along is probably not your best bet.

Interesting point. Would other sugars (i.e. not fructose or indeed galactose) not replenish both muscle and liver glycogen??

smalls
01-29-2005, 12:28 AM
Interesting point. Would other sugars (i.e. not fructose or indeed galactose) not replenish both muscle and liver glycogen??

Sorry i'm not really getting your question, it's late and i'm dumb. Basically I was just saying there are a million ways to skin the preverbial(sp) cat. And worrying about fruit hurting your PWO meal is kinda silly. JMO.

Shao-LiN
01-29-2005, 01:19 AM
I was just thinking, other than a few grams of fiber, fruit isn't really that great. Sure it has vitamins, but if you take a good multi-vitamin you're set anyway.

My question is, if I'm bulking and I'm looking for a carb source for a snack (to go along with some protein), am I better off grabbing an apple or a more complex carb (like this Quaker oat bran cold cereal I just got)

The general mistake that a lot of people make is thinking that a multivitamin is a great replacement for the vitamins and minerals you get from whole food. It isn't. It is a SUPPLEMENT to your already good diet (assuming you have a good one). It is not meant to replace the food, it is meant to help you fill in the gaps.

smalls
01-29-2005, 01:25 AM
I'm just curious if most people worry so much about whole, real, solid or whatever foods from a health perspective or from a muscular gains perspective?

getfit
01-29-2005, 02:05 AM
The general mistake that a lot of people make is thinking that a multivitamin is a great replacement for the vitamins and minerals you get from whole food. It isn't. It is a SUPPLEMENT to your already good diet (assuming you have a good one). It is not meant to replace the food, it is meant to help you fill in the gaps.
:withstupi

Holto
01-29-2005, 08:41 AM
I'm just curious if most people worry so much about whole, real, solid or whatever foods from a health perspective or from a muscular gains perspective?

a healthier machine is a better machine and will perform better

take it right down to the cellular level

your body makes about 200 million new cells everyday and it makes them out of whatever you eat

if your cell membranes are made of trans fat they will not be as permeable as if they were made of saturated fat like nature intended

meaning nutrient supply will be diminished

smalls
01-29-2005, 12:04 PM
I disagree wholeheartedly. I am far far less "healthy" then I was at 140, 180, or 200 but I perform in almost every single way much better. Also i'm pretty sure you cant make a thing in your body out of hydrogenated fats, or alot of the other crap you can eat, your body will convert it to what it needs to be(obviously it has a negative health impact, but i beleive it's through different pathways than you suggest)

Ok, so do all of you who seem so anti supplement, actually think your gains are better if more of you nutrients come from real food rather than supplements. Or are you just looking to be healthier, cuz that I can understand.

ryuage
01-29-2005, 01:23 PM
real food tastes better :thumbup:

smalls
01-29-2005, 01:47 PM
You, my friend, have not had cytogainer's chocolate mint in milk. LOL.

Holto
01-29-2005, 02:42 PM
Also i'm pretty sure you cant make a thing in your body out of hydrogenated fats, or alot of the other crap you can eat, your body will convert it to what it needs to be

wishfull thinking bro

name an enzyme that can even recognize a hydrogenated fat, least of all convert it to something non-toxic

smalls
01-29-2005, 03:41 PM
K, then explain to me how the body can take a trans fat and make cell membranes, hormones or anything else out of it, directly. Cut paste, whatever I would just like an understanding of it. Either way, that's not the point of my question or what this post was talking about. Most people stress how much better whole foods are at supplying the needs, vs supplements. I wanted to know if most people who repeat this so often actually think their gains are improved by all their fruit and veggie eating.

Vido
01-29-2005, 03:57 PM
Hmmmm, I don't use supplements that much, but I also don't eat much fruit or vegetables...where does that leave me in all of this?

As far as body composition goes, I think macronutrients (and not their source) are really all that matter.

Holto
01-29-2005, 04:12 PM
smalls I think they are all small factors that add up

will eating clean improve your gains like AAS, no certainly not

just like creatine will only make a marginal difference

in the end it all adds up

Holto
01-29-2005, 04:14 PM
K, then explain to me how the body can take a trans fat and make cell membranes, hormones or anything else out of it, directly. Cut paste, whatever I would just like an understanding of it. Either way, that's not the point of my question or what this post was talking about. Most people stress how much better whole foods are at supplying the needs, vs supplements. I wanted to know if most people who repeat this so often actually think their gains are improved by all their fruit and veggie eating.

when I was in the alternative health field I read alot about things like Arteriosclerosis and the contributing factors

trans fats become cell membranes and encourage the buildup of arterial plaque because they are more easily damaged by free radicals etc...

one source of such info is Sam Graci's the food connection if you would like more info

smalls
01-29-2005, 06:21 PM
Hmmmm, I don't use supplements that much, but I also don't eat much fruit or vegetables...where does that leave me in all of this?

As far as body composition goes, I think macronutrients (and not their source) are really all that matter.

It puts you on my side ****er. :withstupi

smalls
01-29-2005, 06:23 PM
smalls I think they are all small factors that add up

will eating clean improve your gains like AAS, no certainly not

just like creatine will only make a marginal difference

in the end it all adds up

I agree, I just dont think it adds up to the extent that people suggest. Or enough to worry about, but that's just me. If eating that way keeps you on target and going in the right direction then that's what matters. As long as were all making progress.

Titanium_Jim
01-29-2005, 06:54 PM
Most people stress how much better whole foods are at supplying the needs, vs supplements. I wanted to know if most people who repeat this so often actually think their gains are improved by all their fruit and veggie eating.
I think they meant more that you should have your diet in order instead of substituting supplements for food. I agree with Shao-LiN, you should have a full healthy diet AND supplements to pick up anything you missed, the former being more important.

smalls
01-29-2005, 06:59 PM
I think they meant more that you should have your diet in order instead of substituting supplements for food. I agree with Shao-LiN, you should have a full healthy diet AND supplements to pick up anything you missed, the former being more important.

I understand about having your diet in order first, I agree. But I think people stress it far too much. If you can work full time, go to college full time and eat 6000 cals from only whole foods then props bro. I have done it both ways and have found my gains are just as good or better when using a lot of weightgainer, whey protein, multi-vits-minerals, antioxidants etc in addition to whatever solid meals I have.
I just think people listened to their high school health teacher a little to closesly.

Shao-LiN
01-29-2005, 08:54 PM
I'm not anti supplement by any means, and neither was my post. My post was directed to the fact that supplements are not a replacement, they are a supplement to your diet. Use them to help, but I just don't like using them as a crutch.

smalls
01-29-2005, 09:09 PM
I'm not anti supplement by any means, and neither was my post. My post was directed to the fact that supplements are not a replacement, they are a supplement to your diet. Use them to help, but I just don't like using them as a crutch.

Not a replacement according to you. That's my point, by saying people are using them as a crutch you are implying that using supplements can be a weakness. Which is bordering on ******ed.
I really dont think were going to come to a conclusion on this one. Just differing opinions is all.

Holto
01-30-2005, 09:55 AM
smalls are you saying eating un-clean and synthetic foods would yield better results than eating clean ?

I'm sure for you when you are taking your gainers etc...its merely a matter of you getting more total cals and protein

smalls
01-30-2005, 10:25 PM
smalls are you saying eating un-clean and synthetic foods would yield better results than eating clean ?

That's not what I was saying (I was mostly just addressing whole foods, vs supps, and multis), but if it yields more calories then it probably would yield better gains for alot of people. Especially 17 year kids old worrying about getting three extra grams of sugar, lol.

[/QUOTE]I'm sure for you when you are taking your gainers etc...its merely a matter of you getting more total cals and protein[/QUOTE]

That's correct, and convenience. I just dont understand people who spew out info about getting all your nutrients from natural sources etc. Maybe I just hate hippies so much that I have allowed it to interfere at wannabebig, lol.

Vapour Trails
01-31-2005, 11:51 AM
wishfull thinking bro

name an enzyme that can even recognize a hydrogenated fat, least of all convert it to something non-toxic

First off, its not toxic. Secondly, there are many enzymes that can break down or modify them. Hydrogenated just means a double bond has been reduced to a single bond (mono unsaturated to saturated). It is by no means synthetic, your body is capable of doing the same.

Hydrogenation isn't considered healthy because it creates saturated fat, but it is no different that the saturated fat that exists in any food.

Holto
02-01-2005, 08:14 AM
First off, its not toxic

why did the US ban it ?

Teufelhund
02-01-2005, 08:38 AM
banned? hydrogenated fats are used in thousands and thousands of food products. I highly doubt they banned it. Last I checked, the vending machine at the office was still packed with products that have hydrogenated fats, and margarine was not a controlled substance. lol! that'd be funny. "New! Prescription strength Parkay!"

anyway - In the last year or 2, some groups petitioned to have it banned but I don't think anything but more stringent food labeling requirements came of it.

Vapour Trails
02-01-2005, 11:21 AM
why did the US ban it ?

You have no clue what you are talking about.

Holto
02-01-2005, 02:08 PM
You have no clue what you are talking about.

actually I do

I have read numerous chapters of various books that detail the toxic effects of trans fat

do you know who Johanna Budwig is ?

she invented margarine and in the process trans fat

she then spent her life *attempting* to educate people about the dangers of trans fat

the companies that funded her research used their enormous power to suppress her for around 20 years

she continued fighting and eventually regained her credibility in the industry and was allowed to publish her research

so my research dates back to the person who pioneered the technology, I consider that pretty detailed

Holto
02-01-2005, 02:14 PM
You have no clue what you are talking about.

OK there is no need for this kind of rudeness

I admit this is just somethign I heard and I hope it happens soon

it seems like the lions share of companies are now promoting trans free products and the local grocery chains have been blowing out oreos and fudgeo's which are some of the biggest offenders

sorry for going on hearsay, it will never happen again

smalls
02-01-2005, 03:18 PM
No need to insult people based on their opinion, know one here knows it all. Were here to share ideas and discuss. I'm guilty of being an ass too but everyone needs to chill.