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jazer80
02-15-2005, 09:22 AM
i began mapping out my routine for the month, and have two questions:

1) If i should do dynamic effort the same, all the time, for legs, should i go week by week between dynamic squats and dynamic deadlifts?

2) What accessories would you guys recommend for my 3rd and 4th weeks legs? (i don't know if i can do box squats yet, and nothing w/ chains / bands)



here's the routine:

Squat/DL:
Max effort:
week 1: Good mornings
week 2: Deadlifts
week 3: Good morning variation
week 4: Good morning variation

Dynamic effort:
rotate between squats / dl's weekly? biweekly?

Accessories:
weeks 1+2: zerchers, power cleans, hypers w/ 45 plate
weeks 3+4: ???????????


Bench:
Max effort:
week 1: Bench press
week 2: Incline press
week 3: Floor press
week 4: Decline press

Dynamic effort:
Bench press every week

Accessories:
weeks 1+2: pullups, dips (w/ 45 plate), rows (90lbs on tbar)
weeks 3+4: shrugs, flyes, lat pull-downs


any help here is appreciated

Paul Stagg
02-15-2005, 09:42 AM
DE squats - squat every week. If you want to pull, do it after the squatting - 6 singles at about 60% or so.

Accessory work: Pull thrus, SLDL, GMs, Hypers, GHR, abs.

I'd replace some of those GMs on ME day with squats

jazer80
02-15-2005, 10:48 AM
great thanks man

bIgHwN86
02-15-2005, 01:42 PM
and u can check adam's signature for his link to westside...good stuff

jazer80
02-15-2005, 01:53 PM
ya i've read that a bunch of times, plus like everything at elitefts.com, defrancostraining.com, and lots on deepsquatter.com

johnnytang24
02-16-2005, 06:08 PM
Do you need to change ME exercises every week? I think a lot of those guys change every week because they've been lifting 10+ years.

Adam
02-16-2005, 07:08 PM
You don't have to, but it adds vareity.

jazer80
02-16-2005, 07:37 PM
Do you need to change ME exercises every week? I think a lot of those guys change every week because they've been lifting 10+ years.
no, you change weekly to avoid burning yourself out, either mentally or physicaly, and to continue making gains.

Adam
02-16-2005, 08:17 PM
Johnny is right though.
Its only the more advanced lifters that are suppose to change every week.
But it won't hurt you if you do change every week and are not advanced.

jazer80
02-16-2005, 09:12 PM
how do you define advanced? the kid who is showing me this stuff told me that to make good progress i would need to switch my max effort stuff very frequently. he's not a personal trainer or anything, but he competes in powerlifting, squats about 650, and seems to be really involved in the stuff (he was actually a tester for ETS)

Adam
02-16-2005, 09:19 PM
Him squatting 650, probly advanced.
Me doing 400@181 after training for 6 years, sorta advanced.
Someone who lifted 3years or less, still a newbie.

jazer80
02-17-2005, 10:38 AM
oh i'm not saying i'm advanced at powerlifting, i'm just saying he knows my situation and told me i need to switch them regularly, and i trusted him because i know he is very into the stuff. would you say it is completely irrelevant whether i switch them or not, or at least very insignificant?

johnnytang24
02-17-2005, 11:53 AM
I would think non-advanced lifters wouldn't want to switch often, as to get more practice in the main lifts; learn better form with heavy weights, get used to holding heavy weights, etc. When I tried westside, I switched exercises every week. It seemed too much, and I couldn't learn proper form on any lifts, because they kept changing.

Thanks

jazer80
02-17-2005, 11:56 AM
ah, if it's just about form i will keep changing. would you say that, assuming form is optimal, that you would be better off switching things up? i'm really confused here because i keep seeing that you need to switch stuff up, yet they never make it seem like you need to be super advanced to do that

jazer80
02-17-2005, 11:57 AM
even in adam's article it says:
"On ME day you are training with the conjugated method. With this method you must rotate the ME exercise at most every 3rd week. The reason for this is because you will not get stronger after 3 weeks at or above 90% of your max, you will suffer either mental or physical burnout after about 3 weeks and your strength will actually go down."

was this article meant for very advanced lifters?

Adam
02-17-2005, 08:08 PM
Is was meant for new lifters.
ME days are not there to teach you the actual lift. They are there to make you strong in general.
speed days will make your form good.
After your speed work go up to 75-80%1rm for a single every second week, that will get you used to the actual lift...but when its heavy.

johnnytang24
02-17-2005, 08:36 PM
I thought the ME exercise was to get one use to holding heavy weights and to determine weaknesses.

Adam
02-17-2005, 08:37 PM
That too.
I was just stating that the ME days are NOT meant to teach form on competition lifts.

jazer80
02-17-2005, 09:03 PM
okay, so though you don't think it's necessary for beginners to the program to change weekly, you still think that they need to switch every three weeks at most right?

Adam
02-17-2005, 09:29 PM
yup.
As you get more advanced your CNS adapts to movements much quicker. Thats why as you advance you have to chanmge movements more frequently.

Chris Rodgers
02-18-2005, 03:18 PM
Just a note on goodmornings....I haven't done them in a long time(probably two years) and my squat and deadlift are both way up since then. I have done a lot of box squats and heavy free squat and deadlift variations through my training and this is what has improved my form and my strength the most.

aormz
02-22-2005, 01:35 AM
I never understood how someones squat could be so much higher then thier deadlift?!?!?

idk why?

jazer80
02-22-2005, 10:42 AM
Just a note on goodmornings....I haven't done them in a long time(probably two years) and my squat and deadlift are both way up since then. I have done a lot of box squats and heavy free squat and deadlift variations through my training and this is what has improved my form and my strength the most.
are you suggesting that your squat/dl are up because you stopped?

bIgHwN86
02-22-2005, 11:48 AM
Just a note on goodmornings....I haven't done them in a long time(probably two years) and my squat and deadlift are both way up since then. I have done a lot of box squats and heavy free squat and deadlift variations through my training and this is what has improved my form and my strength the most.

i can attest to that as well..as soon as i stopped doing good mornings and focused on squats (box or free) my squat days have been much heavier with more PR's than when i was doing good mornings...even though it has only been a month or two since i last did good mornings as ME..

jazer80
02-22-2005, 01:48 PM
that's really weird. everything i'm reading in the westside articles makes it seem like good mornings are very important for building these two lifts

debussy
02-22-2005, 02:58 PM
I never understood how someones squat could be so much higher then thier deadlift?!?!?

idk why?

gear tends to help squats more than deadlift.

bIgHwN86
02-22-2005, 05:08 PM
that's really weird. everything i'm reading in the westside articles makes it seem like good mornings are very important for building these two lifts

but i will say this about good mornings...they will save you back problems during squatting and deadlifting..don't cut them all out..use them for maybe 3 reps or even for 6-8reps...get them in so that when it comes time to step out of the rack w/watever amount of weight..u will be confident and strong enough to squat down and give it go..

Paul Stagg
02-22-2005, 07:22 PM
that's really weird. everything i'm reading in the westside articles makes it seem like good mornings are very important for building these two lifts

They are. But they aren't the only way.

If you read how Louie's guys are training now (on the training logs on EliteFTS, for example), they've kinda gotten away from lots of GMs, I think mostly because they are already so strong, there isn't enough reward for the risk of doing a GM with over 500 pounds.

IMO, you can do just fine without GMs in the ME mix, but I agree that as an assistance lift they are very valuable. I'm still of the mindset that I think once every 4 weeks ( Box Squat, GM, Dead, Geared squat, repeat) on ME day would be just fine, as they do teach you how to recover your squat if you get out of your groove, and you get lots of confidence in your back strength.

jazer80
02-22-2005, 07:48 PM
They are. But they aren't the only way.

If you read how Louie's guys are training now (on the training logs on EliteFTS, for example), they've kinda gotten away from lots of GMs, I think mostly because they are already so strong, there isn't enough reward for the risk of doing a GM with over 500 pounds.

IMO, you can do just fine without GMs in the ME mix, but I agree that as an assistance lift they are very valuable. I'm still of the mindset that I think once every 4 weeks ( Box Squat, GM, Dead, Geared squat, repeat) on ME day would be just fine, as they do teach you how to recover your squat if you get out of your groove, and you get lots of confidence in your back strength.
being confident in my back's strength is really important for me, so i'm gonna keept hem. 500 lbs gm's... damn. what's a geared squat?

EdgarMex
02-22-2005, 08:08 PM
A squat done wearing a squat suit

jazer80
02-22-2005, 09:02 PM
ah. if i'm not doing anythign w/ equipment, like shirts/suits/belts whatever, should i do regular squats instead right?

Paul Stagg
02-23-2005, 06:28 AM
You should do what you need to do to get stronger.

This method of training isn't cookie cutter, you have to work with it to find what makes you stronger. You might need to squat more, you might need to do more low box squatting, you might need to do more good mornings. Experiment.

jazer80
02-23-2005, 09:53 AM
i need to learn box squats. how does this tutorial look?
http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/Home.htm
it doesn't mention anything about 'releasing hip flexors', whatever that means.. also the video doesn't seem much different than a regular squat, just that you pause at the bottom, but that can be achieved w/o a box.. i know i'm missing something here

Paul Stagg
02-24-2005, 11:31 AM
With the box, you can sit back farther. When you hit the box, you stay tight, but stop trying to spread the floor with your feet (stop pushing out your knees) for a second, then explode up.