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fixationdarknes
02-15-2005, 10:07 PM
Because every night when I'm eating food before I'm about to go to bed, my mom yells at me and tells me that I'm going to get fat. Wtf? If I eat protein before I go to bed, how can that turn into fat? That's not possible, right? Well, she thinks that whatever I eat before I go to bed, it'll turn into fat. Can you guys just tell me who's right so that I can finally settle this argument with my mom? :scratch:

ozzyman
02-15-2005, 11:00 PM
I always eat a can of tuna and a spponful of Natty Peanut butter before bed..... your body DEF needs protien before bed.... i would suggest reading this article http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=183

spencerjrus
02-15-2005, 11:50 PM
This comes from the idea that if you eat alot of food and immediately go to sleep your body will have trouble digesting the food or something, I dont think any of it is proven.

Vido
02-16-2005, 12:13 AM
If I eat protein before I go to bed, how can that turn into fat? That's not possible, right?

Yes, it is possible.


Well, she thinks that whatever I eat before I go to bed, it'll turn into fat. Can you guys just tell me who's right so that I can finally settle this argument with my mom? :scratch:

The only way to gain fat is to be in a caloric surplus (and it's probably going to have to be for a few days, but we'll simplify it to one day here). If your maintenance calories are 3000, and you eat that amount (or less) during the day you CANNOT gain fat. It doesn't matter if you eat those 3000 calories spread over 6 meals, or if you eat them all at once right before bed.

If, however, you are over your maintenance calories, you can (not will, but can) gain fat...even if the extra calories are coming from protein.

For someone trying to gain muscle, eating before bed is absolutely critical. Your body is about to endure a long number of hours without food, which by nature is very catabolic. You definitely want a good dose of protein before bed, as well as some good fats, and maybe even some complex carbs.

So I guess you're right, but now you know why.

TTT
02-16-2005, 12:20 AM
.... It doesn't matter if you eat those 3000 calories spread over 6 meals, or if you eat them all at once right before bed.....


I respectfully disagree with this point, however I agree with the rest of your points. Over a period of time, if you binge at times and don't eat anything at others, you'll gain fat. Your body needs fuel and nutrients at ALL times, and especially after intense exercise, not all in one big heap in a small timespan. If you have too much energy intake in one small meal, and then don't eat anything for the rest of the day, you'll store the excess as fat... especially if you starve yourself after this.
Ask Severed Ties about diet... he's got it down to a fine art:)

Vido
02-16-2005, 12:26 AM
I respectfully disagree with this point, however I agree with the rest of your points. Over a period of time, if you binge at times and don't eat anything at others, you'll gain fat. Your body needs fuel and nutrients at ALL times, and especially after intense exercise, not all in one big heap in a small timespan. If you have too much energy intake in one small meal, and then don't eat anything for the rest of the day, you'll store the excess as fat... especially if you starve yourself after this.
Ask Severed Ties about diet... he's got it down to a fine art:)

I'd ask you to try it, but you never would so it's moot. If you (or anyone else) can explain to me scientifically how eating one large meal/day would lead to fat gain I'd love to hear it. It would be violating the law of thermodynamics.

In fact, there's a well-known diet out there known as the "Warrior Diet". The gist of it is you eat one meal/day, of whatever the hell you want as long as you get a decent amount of protein. This is a "weight-loss" diet btw.

TTT
02-16-2005, 12:38 AM
Basically, because you're eating all of it at once, it'll just come out the other end and probably won't be digested as well as it could. If it is, then you're getting, say, 4000 Calories all at once (or at least, over only a couple of hours). Your body can't use all that at once, unless you have an insane metabolism, so it will store it as fat. (There's only so much ATP, NADH and creatine you can produce, any more and I don't think there's any way to uncouple your metabolism to turn it into heat, unless you're on DNP or something). If you don't eat anything for the rest of the day, it'll be particularly prone to fat storage, as hormones associated with hunger, starvation, etc. will cause a 'starvation response.' I'm not entirely convinced of the explanation for this 'response' yet, but I do know that from every experience I've had with it, binge eating (even if it's under caloric maintenance) leads to increased fat storage.
There're plenty of articles on the net on this topic. I guess it's probably still unproven. But I'm going to keep eating my high number-of-times a day way rather than eating a Warrior's Diet. :)

T_Chapman
02-16-2005, 12:53 AM
Basically, because you're eating all of it at once, it'll just come out the other end and probably won't be digested as well as it could. If it is, then you're getting, say, 4000 Calories all at once (or at least, over only a couple of hours). Your body can't use all that at once, unless you have an insane metabolism, so it will store it as fat. (There's only so much ATP, NADH and creatine you can produce, any more and I don't think there's any way to uncouple your metabolism to turn it into heat, unless you're on DNP or something). If you don't eat anything for the rest of the day, it'll be particularly prone to fat storage, as hormones associated with hunger, starvation, etc. will cause a 'starvation response.' I'm not entirely convinced of the explanation for this 'response' yet, but I do know that from every experience I've had with it, binge eating (even if it's under caloric maintenance) leads to increased fat storage.
There're plenty of articles on the net on this topic. I guess it's probably still unproven. But I'm going to keep eating my high number-of-times a day way rather than eating a Warrior's Diet. :)

im no expert at this but im going to have to side with tt just from personal experience. eating one meal a day would kill your metabolism. i was reading this book called power eating and it says you have to continuously fuel your body on a consistent basis for maximal fat burning. if you eat nothing all day your metabolism goes to hell. hence if you eat 3000 cals right before going to bed your body is going to probably gain weight because it did not burn 3000 cals during the day but more like 1000 because its a natural survival technique.

T_Chapman
02-16-2005, 12:55 AM
Because every night when I'm eating food before I'm about to go to bed, my mom yells at me and tells me that I'm going to get fat. Wtf? If I eat protein before I go to bed, how can that turn into fat? That's not possible, right? Well, she thinks that whatever I eat before I go to bed, it'll turn into fat. Can you guys just tell me who's right so that I can finally settle this argument with my mom? :scratch:

if youre cutting you want to avoid fat and carbs. but protein is essential before bed for all bodybuilders.

smalls
02-16-2005, 01:19 AM
im no expert at this but im going to have to side with tt just from personal experience. eating one meal a day would kill your metabolism. i was reading this book called power eating and it says you have to continuously fuel your body on a consistent basis for maximal fat burning. if you eat nothing all day your metabolism goes to hell. hence if you eat 3000 cals right before going to bed your body is going to probably gain weight because it did not burn 3000 cals during the day but more like 1000 because its a natural survival technique.

The book your reading is completely wrong, not to be rude, but dont use it to argue an incorrect point. "Survival technique does not kick in, in 24 hours.

smalls
02-16-2005, 01:25 AM
if youre cutting you want to avoid fat and carbs. but protein is essential before bed for all bodybuilders.

Lowering carbs and fat may be a good idea while cutting, but totally avoiding fats is a horrible idea. Fats are as essential as protein for us bro.

Vido
02-16-2005, 01:28 AM
I'm not entirely convinced of the explanation for this 'response' yet, but I do know that from every experience I've had with it, binge eating (even if it's under caloric maintenance) leads to increased fat storage.

Maybe in your case it was, but binge eating is usually not associated with being under caloric maintenance. In fact, it's not much of a "binge" at all if it is.


But I'm going to keep eating my high number-of-times a day way rather than eating a Warrior's Diet. :)

I will as well. I said above I wouldn't recommend the "Warrior Diet"...I'm just saying you could get away with it.


hence if you eat 3000 cals right before going to bed your body is going to probably gain weight because it did not burn 3000 cals during the day but more like 1000 because its a natural survival technique.

You're not going to go into "starvation" mode over the course of one day. A COMPLETE metabolic shutdown reduces your metabolism by a mere 25%, and that takes about 4 days of severe caloric restriction.


if youre cutting you want to avoid fat and carbs. but protein is essential before bed for all bodybuilders.

Caloric intake for the day is what matters. You should be leaving enough room in your daily calorie allottment to have some healthy fats before bed, even when cutting.

fixationdarknes
02-16-2005, 09:25 AM
Thanks for all the help guys. And thanks for the article ozzy. It was a good read. I guess all this time I've been letting a lot of my muscle waste catabolize at night. Glad I know better now. :)

Wait I have one more question. That article that ozzy linked helped me understand a lot about protein synthesis and protein breakdown and whey/casein stuff. So, it said to eat some cottage cheese before going to bed. But what I don't understand is why did it say that milk has 80% casein and 20% whey and that it's not good to drink before bed. I'm confused because it was saying that milk is good but it's not good? What's the dealio, yo?

ReelBigFish
02-16-2005, 11:35 AM
some people say milk isn't good because of the sugars in it.

Vido
02-16-2005, 11:52 AM
So, it said to eat some cottage cheese before going to bed. But what I don't understand is why did it say that milk has 80% casein and 20% whey and that it's not good to drink before bed. I'm confused because it was saying that milk is good but it's not good? What's the dealio, yo?

I think the article actually is saying milk is good before bed. The only reason it wouldn't be is if you're worried about the carbs (or extra cals from carbs, as opposed to having something that's basically pure protein like dry curd cottage cheese).

T_Chapman
02-16-2005, 12:28 PM
Lowering carbs and fat may be a good idea while cutting, but totally avoiding fats is a horrible idea. Fats are as essential as protein for us bro.

i said "before bedtime."

T_Chapman
02-16-2005, 12:29 PM
The book your reading is completely wrong, not to be rude, but dont use it to argue an incorrect point. "Survival technique does not kick in, in 24 hours.

well id rather listen to a phd who took the time to write a 500 page book on it than a random poster... "not to be rude."

T_Chapman
02-16-2005, 12:30 PM
some people say milk isn't good because of the sugars in it.

it also promotes inflammation.

T_Chapman
02-16-2005, 12:30 PM
Maybe in your case it was, but binge eating is usually not associated with being under caloric maintenance. In fact, it's not much of a "binge" at all if it is.



I will as well. I said above I wouldn't recommend the "Warrior Diet"...I'm just saying you could get away with it.



You're not going to go into "starvation" mode over the course of one day. A COMPLETE metabolic shutdown reduces your metabolism by a mere 25%, and that takes about 4 days of severe caloric restriction.



Caloric intake for the day is what matters. You should be leaving enough room in your daily calorie allottment to have some healthy fats before bed, even when cutting.

really... hm. ill look into this. thx.

Holto
02-16-2005, 12:47 PM
well id rather listen to a phd who took the time to write a 500 page book on it than a random poster... "not to be rude."

regadless of his education we don't have clinical research to support quite a bit of the stuff we discuss

we don't have any studies involving bodybuilders and fat gain based on meals before bed etc...

hope you get my point

you could have a phd in nutrition science but it's still only as good as current research

gino
02-16-2005, 02:28 PM
The only way to gain fat is to be in a caloric surplus (and it's probably going to have to be for a few days, but we'll simplify it to one day here). If your maintenance calories are 3000, and you eat that amount (or less) during the day you CANNOT gain fat. It doesn't matter if you eat those 3000 calories spread over 6 meals, or if you eat them all at once right before bed.

If, however, you are over your maintenance calories, you can (not will, but can) gain fat...even if the extra calories are coming from protein.

For someone trying to gain muscle, eating before bed is absolutely critical. Your body is about to endure a long number of hours without food, which by nature is very catabolic. You definitely want a good dose of protein before bed, as well as some good fats, and maybe even some complex carbs.

So I guess you're right, but now you know why.

Like others, I'd have to disagree here too. I think you would definitely gain fat, but at the expense of some muscle. While weight gain may not be a result, bodyfat percentage increase should.

Saint Patrick
02-16-2005, 03:16 PM
some people say milk isn't good because of the sugars in it.

Maybe when cutting, but on a bulk, it's fine.

smalls
02-16-2005, 04:11 PM
i said "before bedtime."

lol, no you didnt, check your post next time.

smalls
02-16-2005, 04:13 PM
well id rather listen to a phd who took the time to write a 500 page book on it than a random poster... "not to be rude."

Or you could listen to as many sources as possible and come up with your own conclusion based on science and your own personal experience.

Vido
02-16-2005, 06:00 PM
Like others, I'd have to disagree here too. I think you would definitely gain fat, but at the expense of some muscle. While weight gain may not be a result, bodyfat percentage increase should.

As far as mass-gaining goes, it might not put you an optimal anabolic state, but I still don't think it would be as bad as everyone thinks. Like I said before though it's moot because no one's going to do it anyway.

T_Chapman
02-16-2005, 06:17 PM
lol, no you didnt, check your post next time.

the question was "if i eat before bedtime will it turn into fat?" obviously i was referring to feeding "before bedtime." use your common sense. im not going to restate the whole question. geez.

abwowang
02-16-2005, 06:33 PM
so cottage cheese is the most recommended type of food before bed?

fixationdarknes
02-16-2005, 06:37 PM
so cottage cheese is the most recommended type of food before bed?

Hm, it appears so. But I don't really like cottage cheese all that much. What can I eat it with to make it not taste so bad?

abwowang
02-16-2005, 08:51 PM
i was wonderin the same thing!

smalls
02-16-2005, 09:17 PM
Hm, it appears so. But I don't really like cottage cheese all that much. What can I eat it with to make it not taste so bad?

Cottage cheese is recomended because it's easy and it's casien content. Any meat source will be just fine, as well as eggs, milk and/or most fat sources.

TTT
02-16-2005, 11:20 PM
Try putting some flavoured protein powder in it. Vanilla usually tastes awesome with it. If you don't mind having some extra sucrose, maltodextrin, etc. in the cottage cheese.

fixationdarknes
02-16-2005, 11:35 PM
Try putting some flavoured protein powder in it. Vanilla usually tastes awesome with it. If you don't mind having some extra sucrose, maltodextrin, etc. in the cottage cheese.

Would it be pointless to put whey powder in it since the whole point of eating cottage cheese is for the casein protein?

Vido
02-16-2005, 11:48 PM
Would it be pointless to put whey powder in it since the whole point of eating cottage cheese is for the casein protein?

The casein from the cottage cheese isn't disappearing, is it?

fixationdarknes
02-17-2005, 06:33 PM
The casein from the cottage cheese isn't disappearing, is it?

Well, no, but would the whey even help?

Saint Patrick
02-17-2005, 06:55 PM
^ It sure as hell couldn't hurt.

EDIT: For what it's worth, I'm taking 2 scoops of whey mixed w/ whole milk before bed (I'm bulking). The milkfat slows absorbtion, and I usually have a few spoonfuls of cochee before I drink the whey/milk.

Vido
02-17-2005, 08:13 PM
Well, no, but would the whey even help?

You said you wanted it to taste better...

fixationdarknes
02-17-2005, 08:33 PM
You said you wanted it to taste better...

That's true. But I don't think whey tastes very well.

Vido
02-17-2005, 08:48 PM
That's true. But I don't think whey tastes very well.

Fair enough. A lot of other people like the taste of whey, especially when mixed in other things. That was the only reason for the suggestion.