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spillman
03-07-2005, 08:19 AM
Watched the bench competition.

Man these guys are pressing from 600-800lbs pretty easy, whats up with that?

Also, how much of an increase do the shirts + belts give ya?

I would have searched google or something but i dont even know what those shirts are called.

thanks in advance!

neartaigh
03-07-2005, 09:19 AM
You can read about them here: www.inzernet.com

spillman
03-07-2005, 09:46 AM
that tells me nothing of how they work though.

spillman
03-07-2005, 10:02 AM
Also watched some guy off the street do 225lbs for 86 reps.... interesting.

Pup
03-07-2005, 11:00 AM
The shirts and suits are the primary reason you are seeing the 1000lb bench press and 1000lb squats. Think of the shirt as a slingshot, its design is set up pretty much that lower the weight loads up the slingshot, once you hit the bottom its fully loaded and the push of your own force off the bottom fires it. In the elite level lifters that are in federations with no restrictions on shirts (double and triple ply, etc.) the increase in the bench press may be up to a couple hundred pounds.

There is a good bit of debate b/w the PL and non PL lifters over the fairness of such equipment...especially when you compare the numbers being posted to the guys from the 50s and 60s who were pressing huge numbers w/o fancy equipment.

Darracq
03-07-2005, 11:27 AM
Pup do you use a Bench shirt? The shirts creat a lot of resistance close to the bottom, but they do nothing to help lock the weight out. YOu have to be strong as hell to lock out 1000. It takes years to do what them guys are doing. You may only get 20 pounds out of a shirt when you first try it you have to lift in them for a good while.

TheMachine
03-07-2005, 11:28 AM
I competed with a bench press shirt for awhile and didn't really care for it. I can do 400lbs raw and 550lbs (gym lift) with a Titan Fury shirt. Too often lifters seem to forget about gaining strength and just try find a tighter shirt to increase their bench. As for lifters getting 200lbs out of their shirts, um, some lifters are getting 300+lbs from their shirts. I saw first hand the stark difference between raw and equipped strength in one elite lifter. There is a 165'er out there who puts up nearly 600lbs in a shirt. I saw this person warming up and he almost got stapled with 315lbs. His spotter had to bump the bar or he would not have pressed it all the way. Now 315 at 165 bodyweight is a great bench, don't get me wrong. But to see this guy turn around and bench 555lbs with his bench shirt 15 minutes later just underscored the absurdity.

Now on the other hand I don't want to tear my pecs either and bench shirts make the sport alot safer that way. I believe anyone who competes in a bench shirt needs to volunteer what kind of shirt they used when talking about their lifting. If they try to claim they did it all on their own, they are lying. Few lifters want to admit that though.

Pup
03-07-2005, 08:38 PM
Darracq-i've never used a shirt...those guys may be very strong...but Mendy probably has the strongest raw bench right now and last i heard he was in the high 700s with that...you take away the shirt, they aren't pressing 1k.

Machine...good points...200 was a rough guess, but i wouldn't doubt it that there are 300lbs or more coming from a shirt...which to me is ridiculous, i'm not a newbie by any stretch and a bench shirt is giving these guys what i do for a 1rm...that is just silly imo.

Patz
03-07-2005, 09:33 PM
There's a local powerlifter around here by the name of Brian Siders www.briansiders.com

I believe he competed in the Arnold. From what I hear, he's one of the best. He's a monster at least. I red on his page int he forums section that he's benched 660x6 raw (if I'm remembering that correctly.

I really don't know where he fares in the elite of the sport, as I don't know much about it, but it's cool to have a big lifter in the area besides Phil Pfister. We don't get much excitement around here, obviously.

I only even found out about the guy because we apparently shop at the same GNC..lol

Chubrock
03-08-2005, 06:17 AM
If I'm not mistaken, I think Brian Siders is sponsored by At Large. I may be wrong though.

johnnytang24
03-08-2005, 06:33 PM
brian Siders competed in the Strongman at the Arnold this year.

ElPietro
03-09-2005, 07:48 AM
Just keep in mind that powerlifting is a sport, and all sports to some degree have equipment. My main issue is the varying standards of equipment used. Some federations allow triple ply denim, and also have much less strict standards on form. So even within the sport it's apples and oranges. I'm sure if you took APF world records, and IPF world records, there would be a huge disparity in the numbers.

Also, if you don't agree with shirts, nobody is forced to wear one. I'm not sure if there are many raw feds, but if there is enough demand perhaps one would spring up. But for now, I think what really hurts things, is the variety of standards out there. It really doesn't feel like a community, because each federation is lifting according to it's own rules and standards. I generally can understand what an IPF lift means, but when it comes to other feds, I can't really gauge how that would correlate to my fed.

And yeah, Siders was in the strongman comp. I only watched the first event though. Lol, the powerlifter guy that was in his first strongman seemed to be doing very, very well.

Patz
03-10-2005, 10:31 PM
If I was told correctly, Siders trains with Phil Pfister, who is a Charleston fireman and has competed in "World's Strongest Man."

trich daddy
03-11-2005, 02:00 AM
I'm no powerlifter, and quite naive about the scene, but it seems ridiculous to me that bench shirts and squat suits are even allowed at these competitions.

Unless the lift is raw (besides chalk), Im no longer impressed.

Luigijawbreaker
04-09-2005, 05:13 AM
I have benched as much as 455lbs raw at a bodyweight of 185lbs,and at 180lbs,I've benched 405 for 5 reps,raw. I've lost some of my strenght now since i've lost some of my weight,I weight only 175 now,and last time I went to the gym,I benched 405 only once. But I know I'll get my strenght back.I can't say anything negative about bench shirts. I don't compete,but I'm seriously contemplating the idea. I dream of someday benching 1000lbs in competition....maybe the bench shirt will help me do that,but i will always test my raw strenght in the gym. Who is stronger,gene rylack or scott mendelson?

Isaac Wilkins
04-09-2005, 06:16 AM
I have benched as much as 455lbs raw at a bodyweight of 185lbs,and at 180lbs,I've benched 405 for 5 reps,raw. I've lost some of my strenght now since i've lost some of my weight,I weight only 175 now,and last time I went to the gym,I benched 405 only once. But I know I'll get my strenght back.I can't say anything negative about bench shirts. I don't compete,but I'm seriously contemplating the idea. I dream of someday benching 1000lbs in competition....maybe the bench shirt will help me do that,but i will always test my raw strenght in the gym. Who is stronger,gene rylack or scott mendelson?

Mendelson is a much better raw bencher (714, I believe, which is the raw record). Rychlak rarely benches raw at this point. He trains for a shirted bench and that's pretty much what he does. He's the best shirted bencher in the world.

Apples to oranges.

Personally, I feel that Mendelson is a better bencher because of his raw ability, but if the shirts are allowed in the competition, Rychlak is the big guy.

the doc
04-09-2005, 09:20 AM
I spent 4-5 hrs watching the olymic lift competition (snatch, C&P) at the Arnold. If you want to see some intensity, watch that competition!

eatit
02-20-2006, 05:14 PM
question: how and when did non raw lifting become so popular? As impressive as it is to move such hyooooge poundages it seems like it would be the same thing if a boxer were to compete wearing a helmet and pads. Sure the other guy stands a chance and could have done the same.... but it's just not as interesting.

Gutz981
02-20-2006, 05:49 PM
Its more along the lines of to make it more intresting. Sure they could be pushing 500s raw but seeing them push up greater numbers just makes it seem more dangerous and more risky so thus it sells better.

Sensei
02-20-2006, 05:57 PM
question: how and when did non raw lifting become so popular? As impressive as it is to move such hyooooge poundages it seems like it would be the same thing if a boxer were to compete wearing a helmet and pads. Sure the other guy stands a chance and could have done the same.... but it's just not as interesting.
A better question is why is THIS thread being bumped a year after the fact... The answer is that powerlifting is a fringe sport, "powered" by the lifters NOT spectators - if the lifters want to lift more and want to wear a special shirt to do it, then they will, or if it's not allowed then they will make a federation where it IS legal.

On a side note, apparently Scot Mendelson just (and finally!) took back the bench press record w. 1006!

ArchAngel777
02-21-2006, 03:01 PM
Yeah, that is a better question...

But to continue with the bump, I have a few questions that some of you pros could answer.

I was talking to an IPF Bronze Medalist and he said Knee Wraps can give you an extra 20 kilos right off the bat. He explained how they work etc... THen he said add in the Squat Suit and then go Sumo Wide leg stance to decrease range of motion. He eluded to the fact that all this can litterally add 100 - 200 pounds of weight to your squat. Is this true? I don't think he would BS, he was a really nice guy and was a pro, for sure. The guy was massive strong for the 65Kg class.

If that is the case, then I guess it is amazing to see just how much gear really adds to the lifts...

Sensei
02-21-2006, 09:38 PM
Yeah, that is a better question...
But to continue with the bump, I have a few questions that some of you pros could answer.
I was talking to an IPF Bronze Medalist and he said Knee Wraps can give you an extra 20 kilos right off the bat. He explained how they work etc... THen he said add in the Squat Suit and then go Sumo Wide leg stance to decrease range of motion. He eluded to the fact that all this can litterally add 100 - 200 pounds of weight to your squat. Is this true? I don't think he would BS, he was a really nice guy and was a pro, for sure. The guy was massive strong for the 65Kg class.
If that is the case, then I guess it is amazing to see just how much gear really adds to the lifts...
Leg stance isn't really an equipment issue, although the monolift makes it easier to get into extremely wide stances and supportive suits assist the hips. IMHO, I have no problem w. stance as long as lifters are actually hitting necessary depth. I've heard arguments for and against the monolift as far as safety goes - I personally think it's a good thing.

There is no doubt, none whatsoever, that wraps, briefs, belt, and an extreme suit can EASILY add 100-200lbs to a squat.

Canadian Crippler
02-22-2006, 12:10 AM
I'd love to see some of the 1000+ squatters do oly squats RAW with something like 700lbs.

khari
02-22-2006, 12:13 AM
I'd love to see some of the 1000+ squatters do oly squats RAW with something like 700lbs.


It would look something like this, but fatter.

ArchAngel777
02-22-2006, 09:55 AM
Leg stance isn't really an equipment issue, although the monolift makes it easier to get into extremely wide stances and supportive suits assist the hips. IMHO, I have no problem w. stance as long as lifters are actually hitting necessary depth. I've heard arguments for and against the monolift as far as safety goes - I personally think it's a good thing.

There is no doubt, none whatsoever, that wraps, briefs, belt, and an extreme suit can EASILY add 100-200lbs to a squat.

I totally agree about not having a problem with it. However, I do believe things should be done RAW. No belt, wraps, suits, etc... The reasons for this is to judge who is naturally the strongest. I mean if the federation allows gear, I think that is fine. I just wish things were done 100% RAW. However, we don't make the rules, we just play by them. If gear is allowed, certainly use it and nothing wrong with that.

As far as stance, I do agree that you should be able to use any stance you want. However, I do find that it gets a bit ridiculous beyond a certain point. For instance, I seen a guy for so wide that I thought he was going to do the splits. His range of motion had to be less than a few inches. It seems like a joke when taken to the extreme. I know the name of the game is about numbers, but I just wish we could get back to stength.

That is why I really respect the strong man compitions quite a bit. Such diversity and so on.

Sensei
02-22-2006, 10:18 AM
I really don't have a problem w. lifters using an extreme stance - it requires an incredible amount of hip flexibility and strength to squat in that position. If they can do it, more power to them.

That is why I really respect the strong man compitions quite a bit. Such diversity and so on.
There is criticism of strongman events because they HEAVILY favor the tall, some events aren't really about strength - mostly strength endurance, etc. Then, there's the drug issue...

Canadian Crippler
02-22-2006, 12:21 PM
I really don't have a problem w. lifters using an extreme stance - it requires an incredible amount of hip flexibility and strength to squat in that position. If they can do it, more power to them.

There is criticism of strongman events because they HEAVILY favor the tall, some events aren't really about strength - mostly strength endurance, etc. Then, there's the drug issue...There certainly are events that do not favour the tall at all.

Sensei
02-22-2006, 01:11 PM
There are a few, but not many. Atlas stones, Husefell Stone, Fingal's Fingers, tire flip, power stairs, etc. are all pretty tough if you're short, even if you're damn strong. How many short WSM competitors do you see? Not many - Stumpy Reyes and Whit Baskin are two that come to mind, but I don't remember any others under 5'10".