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ozzyman
03-12-2005, 10:57 PM
is AN peanut butter a good source of fat while on a keto diet? i noticed it has some carbs in it?

JSully
03-12-2005, 10:59 PM
Yes, but don't go over your requirements. Deduct the fiber from total carbs then make sure you don't go over your daily carb requirements. I think it's like 20g/day on the keto diet. Some keto diets let you go up to 50g. I've read that anything under 50g/day doesn't reall make a difference because you'll still be in ketosis. You need a good 60-80g to get out of ketosis.

Built
03-12-2005, 10:59 PM
I don't do a lot of PB on keto ratios, but I can get away with a few tablespoons.

Get in some avocados. They really help.

ozzyman
03-12-2005, 11:17 PM
thanks for the quick replies..... curious... I've been eating a lot of chicken, fish oil capsules, flax capsules and olive oil.... any other good sources of fat you can reccomend?

ozzyman
03-12-2005, 11:20 PM
oh and BTW littlejake when yah gunna change that name to bigjake

Built
03-12-2005, 11:24 PM
Like I said, avocados are amazing - full of good fat, AND full of fiber.

Also, crack a can of coconut milk and use the fat on the top. It's really yummy blended into protein shakes. With PB...oh, I've said too much...

JSully
03-13-2005, 02:59 AM
LOL @ the PB plug....

I'll change it to bigjake when I'm big ;). So in that case, I got about another 30lbs of lean mass to add. Thanks though.

Cheese is a real good source of fat. Put american or cheddar cheese on everything. It's 3am and I can't think straight right now, so I'll put more suggestions up here in the morning. :D

Built
03-13-2005, 12:48 PM
Butter.

I LOVE butter. On hard-cooked egg yolks.

<sigh>

Fat. It's just so darned yummy!

ozzyman
03-13-2005, 12:57 PM
bought some food today to go along with the diet...... though i'll tell yah what I'm two days in now.... been eating around 8-10g of carbs a day mostly from my peanut butter..... and My mind does not like to focus at all..... Went to the gym to do some cardio just a little while ago.... once I got going i was fine but man no energy..... this should subside within the week once my body gets used to using fat as energy? I was bulking on around 3,00cals a day and am eating around 2,500 on this keto diet.... around 200g of protien(I'm 167lbs)from pork chops and chicken breasts and the rest fat from olive oil, fish oil capsules, flaxseed capsules and now avacados and cheese.....


sound good?

Built
03-13-2005, 12:58 PM
Make sure you keep your fats well above 40% of your total cals. I like 'em closer to 60% on keto ratios.

You'll get used to how this feels within a few days, and it'll get easier and easier for your body to deal with it every time you go through "induction".

JSully
03-13-2005, 01:29 PM
bought some food today to go along with the diet...... though i'll tell yah what I'm two days in now.... been eating around 8-10g of carbs a day mostly from my peanut butter..... and My mind does not like to focus at all..... Went to the gym to do some cardio just a little while ago.... once I got going i was fine but man no energy..... this should subside within the week once my body gets used to using fat as energy? I was bulking on around 3,00cals a day and am eating around 2,500 on this keto diet.... around 200g of protien(I'm 167lbs)from pork chops and chicken breasts and the rest fat from olive oil, fish oil capsules, flaxseed capsules and now avacados and cheese.....


sound good?

Looks good but it's not a TRUE keto diet.

True keto diets are about 35% protein, 2-5% carb, and 60% fat (as built previously stated). If you're looking to retain maximal muscle on this ratio, throw in a carb load every other week.

What you're doing is good for retaining muscle though. I was doing that for a while but got tired of it, I'd rather just do a PSMF (protien sparing modified fast) eating nothing but 1400 cals of protein per day. Gets taxing but the fat comes off UBER quick!

TheGimp
03-13-2005, 01:39 PM
Can you clarify what part of his description makes it not fit in with the macros you've mentioned for a keto diet?

JSully
03-13-2005, 01:55 PM
Can you clarify what part of his description makes it not fit in with the macros you've mentioned for a keto diet?

200g protein is a bit more than 35%....EDIT: DOH! :bang:

Math:
He said he's on 2500 cals/day.
pro: 35% of 2500= 875/4 = 218.75g *eating my words*
fat: 60% of 2500= 1500/9 = 166.6g
carb: 5% of 2500= 125/4 = 31.25g

So, gimp................I can admit my faults.... you're right. :D

:thumbup: Good ratios ozzyman!

I did the math in my head at first and normally I'm not off like that. Sorry. 200 seemed a little high.. my bad.

TheGimp
03-13-2005, 01:59 PM
lol glad we cleared that up ;)

And just to point out to anyone who would prefer to have more protein and less fat on a keto diet - protein can kick you out of ketosis via gluconeogenesis, fat cannot.

Built
03-13-2005, 02:01 PM
I've also been told that low fats in the absence of high carbs can leave the body in a protein-oxidative state, wherein the body starts burning muscle.

Not sure how low fats need to go for this, but I go by comfort - when my fats are high enough, my hunger is managed. When my fats dip too low, I'm hungry.

Built
03-13-2005, 02:02 PM
And Jake, that was my first thought, too, when I read 200g of protein. I go keto on closer to 120g, but then, I weigh under a buck fifty.

JSully
03-13-2005, 02:19 PM
I've also been told that low fats in the absence of high carbs can leave the body in a protein-oxidative state, wherein the body starts burning muscle.

Not sure how low fats need to go for this, but I go by comfort - when my fats are high enough, my hunger is managed. When my fats dip too low, I'm hungry.

IF the protein is high enough, it can be protein sparing (muscle sparing). I'm currently on a PSMF (protein sparing modified fast) consisting of nothing but 250g protein per day (for now at least, in two weeks I'm bumping it up to 300-350 due to leanness, the leaner you get the more protein is required) and I'm dropping bodyfat and losing nearly no muscle. ACTUALLY I'm stronger now than when I was cutting with 2500 calories. And I'm only taking in roughly 1200-1300 calories right now.

I don't shoot for ketosis per se, it's merely a "side effect" for me. I just shoot for the MASSIVE calorie deficit. At 1200 cals/day, that's 8400 cals/week (not including my 5 hour refeed, also to prevent muscle loss). My maintenance is about 3200 cals/day making my total required cals for the week 22,400 cals. That's a calorie deficit of 14,000 cals, and that doesn't include what I burn when I workout 2x/week and do my 40mins cardio every day I don't work out. Even if I don't figure the added deficit of cardio and working out, my weekly fat burn is (3500 cals =1lb fat) 4lbs/week. Now, in the 5 hour carb load I'm taking in approximately 3000 cals making my daily cal intake for that day about 1000 cals over maintenance. So that would put me in the 3lbs/week fat loss.

When I was dieting at 2500cals/day using a high protein no carb mod fat I was losing about 1lb/week and losing strength. I also tried 2500cals/day mod protein, mod carb, low fat.. and I was still losing strength.

I switched to this and within 2 weeks of this and my different training program, I'm back to incline DB benching 125's for 10 reps. Benching 315 for 8-10 reps. I'm still deadlifting over 500 and squatting over 400 for reps. I've finally found what worked for me! (not meant as a bragging issue either, sorry if it came off that way)

[begin plug]
For more information go to www.bodyrecomposition.com and check out the PSMF information. He also has a book there called "The Rapid Fat Loss Handbook", a very good read.
[/end plug]

LOL.

Built
03-13-2005, 02:49 PM
Cool. Thanks Jake.

ozzyman
03-13-2005, 02:51 PM
well thanks for all the advice i think i'm on the right track..... just gotta get over these "spaced out" feelings...... I think I'm gunna limit my protien to 1g/lb of body weight which would put me more around 160-170g and up the fat intake..... how often should i do a carb up? every sat or so?

Built
03-13-2005, 02:55 PM
You could try that.

Beware, though - carbups need to be low fat. I like lower-GI carbs for mine, although I understand that many people start their carbups with simple carbs. YMMV. But insulin sensitivity drops with keto dieting, so watch your comfort levels.

Good luck! Let us know what you end up doing.

JSully
03-13-2005, 03:05 PM
You could try that.

Beware, though - carbups need to be low fat. I like lower-GI carbs for mine, although I understand that many people start their carbups with simple carbs. YMMV. But insulin sensitivity drops with keto dieting, so watch your comfort levels.

Good luck! Let us know what you end up doing.:nod:

If every sat isn't working, try every week and a half.

Keep your fat limited to 50-60g. :thumbup: