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View Full Version : tips on homemade weightgain/MRP powder?



jazer80
04-11-2005, 12:18 PM
i just ran out of my most recent bucket of commercial whey+maltodextrin. i was hoping people could give me ideas, as i am going to fill the bucket up with my own weightgainer (homemade). my problem is that i don't want to use a high glycemic carb as it's base, so i guess i should use oats? i'd really appreciate anyone giving info, on things like what to use for carbs, etc.

my ideas so far are
1)use soy and whey, maybe 60%whey 40% soy
2) add fiber, through a generic psyllium husk product (necessary)
3)add creatine

i'm wondering how i would ever get fats in there, as i see some weightgainers have EFA's, but all i can come up with is ground flax, which i would need to refrigerate, which isn't an option.

Built
04-11-2005, 12:31 PM
Why do you want to use soy?
Why do you want to add fiber?
Why add in creatine?

It seems you want a multipurpose shake, and that may not be all that great of an idea.

Post workout, you WANT high GI carbs. The rest of the time, you probably want the slower ones.

Post workout, you WANT creatine. But you probably don't need to be consuming it all day, right?

I wouldn't suggest flax seed for the oil. Use the oil for that. Or natty PB. Or crack a can of coconut milk and use that.

Oats are a great choice for slow carbs.

Start with a good, A/S whey shake as a base, then doctor it up depending what it's for - oats, pb, oil, banana maybe for the weight-gainer, dextrose/maltodextrin and creatine for post workout.

My .02

JTyrell710
04-11-2005, 01:03 PM
Built. I dont see why he would want his source of fats to be 90% Saturated. (Coconut Oil). Go with natty pb or olive oil. Sesame Oil and Peanut Oil are also decent if you want a different flavor. My opinion: Natty PB+banana in a shake= amazing.

Built
04-11-2005, 01:17 PM
Coconut oil is one of the healthiest fats you can put in your body.

Ahhhh.....methinks you could use some information on healthy fats.

Read up. I'll give you a few places to start:

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/oiling.html
(read all three parts - it's an excellent article)

Another: http://www.dancingalgae.com/coconutbutterpage.html

You need natural saturated fats. They're very good for your body, supporting immune function and helping you produce test.

From https://www.muscletech.com/NUTRITION/HIGH_PERFORMANCE_NUTRITION/ISSUE_1/index.shtml

"...contrary to popular belief, even saturated fat from sources such as coconut oil, dairy products, and some of the fat in meat, is important from a musclebuilding standpoint, as it can have positive effects on hormone levels."

Collegekid
04-11-2005, 03:18 PM
I'm no expert, but I'd say that for a general purpose shake (not post workout), then:

-oats/banana for carbs
-whey (milk if you want as well) for protein
-PB, flaxseed oil or olive oil for fats

Presto. Just decide how much you want in each serving and blend.

jazer80
04-11-2005, 04:04 PM
sorry i thought i said earlier i'm looking to make something that *doesn't* go in the fridge. like a powdered weightgainer, like "masstech", "nlarge", "up your mass" etc etc. I want to fill my empty bucket with homemade weight gain.

i want it to be a general purpose weightgainer, not for PWO. also i meant just a small amount of creatine, maybe ~1gram / serving, i've always liked the idea of smaller, more frequent doses of things, i just feel like it's better.

Asylum
04-11-2005, 04:09 PM
Built. I dont see why he would want his source of fats to be 90% Saturated. (Coconut Oil). Go with natty pb or olive oil. Sesame Oil and Peanut Oil are also decent if you want a different flavor. My opinion: Natty PB+banana in a shake= amazing.

Amen to that! Yummmmmmmy.

Asylum
04-11-2005, 04:09 PM
Coconut oil is one of the healthiest fats you can put in your body.

Where do you get that from?

jazer80
04-11-2005, 04:55 PM
i work @ gnc, and all of a sudden in the past 3 weeks we have had a SURGE of people buying the stuff. i guess there was a tv show on it lately or something.


anyways about the shakes, can i just grind up oats and leave them in a bucket? is that hte best way of getting low glycemic powder?(carb)

Built
04-11-2005, 04:58 PM
Where do you get that from?

Read the links I provided. Do a google search. Look up MCTs...

It's pretty old news.

Collegekid
04-11-2005, 07:19 PM
I think it'd be pretty hard to make a home-made powder that would dilute effectively.

JTyrell710
04-11-2005, 08:35 PM
Built- I know for a fact that Saturated fat causes the largest increase in testosterone, followed by poly,then mono unsaturated. However, that difference is pretty small. I agree that a certain amount of natural fats are needed. For instance- fish oils.
Also, you're citing a site, that not only is called "dancing algae" but it is selling you coconut oil..talk about impartial.
Anyway, i know that saturated fat is bad. Coconut oil's saturated fat is the same. Coconut oil is not without benefits though, it has certain proteins and molecules that do reduce the bad effects of saturated fat. So all in all, coconut oil raises both HDL and LDL, and some experts agree that the levels do not matter as much as the ratio of the two does.
All in all, I'd go with the natty PB :)

Built
04-11-2005, 09:51 PM
I literally posted the first link that came up on Google for info on coconut oil. The earlier article wasn't selling anything, and cites peer-reviewed research.

Since you know that saturated fat is bad, I concede to your far greater brilliance. Imagine, coconut oil has proteins and molecules!

I don't know what sources you use, or how old you are, but do some reading. You might learn something.

Or not. Up to you.

But at least cite me some sources if you're going to disagree with me.

Iíll cite you some, so you can do some reading:

Saturated fats enhance the immune system:
J J Kabara, The Pharmacological Effects of Lipids, J J Kabara, ed, The American Oil Chemists' Society, Champaign, IL, 1978, 1-14; L A Cohen, et al, J Natl Cancer Inst, 1986, 77:43

A Dr. Jon Kabara quote: ďThese medium-chain fats in coconut oil are similar to fats in mother's milk and have similar nutriceutical [medical food] effects. It is the fat content that offers the health benefits.Ē

By the way, about half the fat in coconut oil is lauric acid. You can read more about the benefits of lauric acid here: http://www.lauric.org/technical.html

Other wonders of saturated fats:

Stearic acid (itís in butter) has cholesterol-lowering properties:
L D Lawson and F Kummerow, "B-Oxidation of the Coenzyme A Esters of Vaccenic, Elaidic and Petroselaidic Acids by Rat Heart Mitochondria," Lipids, 1979, 14:501-503

Liver health (important to some of our AAS-using population here on WBB):
A A Nanji, et al, Gastroenterology, Aug 1995, 109(2):547-54; Y S Cha, and D S Sachan, J Am Coll Nutr, Aug 1994, 13(4):338-43

Saturated fats also enhance the bodyís use of essential fatty acids (you DO know what EFAs are, right?):
M L Garg, et al, The FASEB Journal, 1988, 2:(4):A852; R M Oliart Ros, et al, Meeting Abstracts, AOCS Proceedings, May 1998, p 7, Chicago, IL

If you just plain donít LIKE coconut oil, donít eat it. I was just offering it up as a very healthy source of fat that happens to be really yummy in a shake. Just crack a can of coconut milk and blend it in.

Sheesh!

smalls
04-11-2005, 10:30 PM
Holy pwned batman. LOL.

jazer80
04-12-2005, 09:05 AM
and i get my homemade weightgainer to dissolve properly how....

Built
04-12-2005, 09:35 AM
blender.

jazer80
04-12-2005, 10:30 AM
the idea here is no blender. i want a powder i can put in bags and leave at work, car, etc.

Built
04-12-2005, 10:50 AM
There are some shakers that have a device in them that helps blend up a shake.

But you may need to resort to eating food along with your powder.

Maybe make some homemade protein bars? There are some recipes around using peanut butter, protein powder, honey...

One of those and a shake will put some meat on your bones. Besides, that way you can make a shake that blends up easily and not worry about it, and the bars are very portable.

jazer80
04-12-2005, 11:37 AM
hahaha i'm actually eating a homemade nattypb/honey/whey/oat bar right as i type this.

i know there's all these ways around makign what i want to make, and they're all very apparent to me. that's not my concern tho; i want to know if i can make a weight gainer or not, as i find it a useful tool in keeping calories up on the rush. if i can't, no sweat i'll just pay out the ass for some, but i want to try to make my own first.

ReelBigFish
04-12-2005, 03:55 PM
hey man if you grind up somes oats and protein powder together ahead of time all you should have to do is add some water and stir or shake. Just grind the oats fine enough.

edit: throw in some flax seed in there as well for some fats if you want.

JTyrell710
04-12-2005, 05:36 PM
Built- It's really great that saturated fats increase the immune system. And it was lauric acid i was referring to when i was talking about coconut oil's benefits. However to read the rest of this article, you must imagine a world where saturated fats has benefits as well as harms.

http://www.healthchecksystems.com/chol.htm


Note that current research indicates that food cholesterol does not appear to increase blood cholesterol as dramatically as does saturated fats. So while it is wise to watch your cholesterol intake, be sure to decrease your consumption of saturated fats as well.

How you can improve your Cholesterol Levels
Choose monounsaturated or polyunsaturated fats in small amounts in place of saturated fats
Avoid saturated fats.


now thats fairly clear but I'll cite another since its the cool thing to do.


1. Hu FB, Manson JE, Stampfer MJ, et al. Diet, lifestyle, and the risk of type 2 diabetes mellitus in women. N Engl J Med 2001; 345:790-7.


Cholesterol in the bloodstream is what's most important. High blood cholesterol levels greatly increase the risk for heart disease. But the average person makes about 75% of blood cholesterol in his or her liver, while only about 25% is absorbed from food. The biggest influence on blood cholesterol level is the mix of fats in the diet.


Saturated Fats

Saturated fats are mainly animal fats. They are found in meat, seafood, whole-milk dairy products (cheese, milk, and ice cream), poultry skin, and egg yolks. Some plant foods are also high in saturated fats, including coconut and coconut oil, palm oil, and palm kernel oil. Saturated fats raise total blood cholesterol levels more than dietary cholesterol because they tend to boost both good HDL and bad LDL cholesterol. The net effect is negative, meaning it's important to limit saturated fats.




yes thank you for your condescendingness, i appreciate it. Now while i've discussed the negative and positive benefits of coconut oil, would you like me to cite a few thousand sources on why and how much better mono-unsaturated and poly-unsaturated fats are for you?

To sum it up, Coconut oil is good and bad for you. Mono/Poly's are really good, and only slightly bad for you.

by the way, I am 16 but as we all know- age is not necessarily a great indicator of maturity.

And yes, I had a bad experience with coconuts when I was a kid, I'm sure you all can tell. :cry:


Now Jazer, so you're looking for a powder that you can make at home, that you can just mix up in some water? It seems easier just to bring some healthy trail mix with you that you can munch on, and then whip up a shake once you get home.

jazer80
04-12-2005, 05:41 PM
you're only 16? holy****! haha i guess i always envisioned you as older. people should be required to put their info in their sigs (and a pic for that matter, to know who really knows what they're talking about).

the problem with trail mix/bars is that it's hard to put down 500 calories, whereas if i had a diesel shake it would be quick/easy. i think i'm gonna try making a mini batch soon, maybe tonihgt?

would taking maltodextrin adn then adding fiber to it slwo the digestion adn effectively lower the glycemic rating, making it closer to oats nutritionally?

Built
04-12-2005, 06:28 PM
Interesting article on type II diabetes.

It compares lifestyle factors amongst middle aged women at risk of type II diabetes, a disease of the endocrine system in which carbohydrate metabolism is compromised because of insulin resistance.

There are no dietary controls outside of what was identified as a self-selected, low-risk group, and it's what is called an observational study, wherein cause and effect cannot be linked - in the language of Statistics, we say that correlation does not imply causation.

In other words, we're comparing a high-carb, high fat diet with a high-carb, lower fat diet. Not particularly scientific, and a major criticism of many cholesterol studies, which this is not.

Here's the article you cited:

http://www.uoguelph.ca/hb+ns/NUTR4350/NUTR4350F04Question3LifestyleIntervention.pdf

Your quote isn't in it. I checked.

Cholesterol is made in the human body.

Any guesses what it's made from? I'll give you a couple of clues. Look up "insulin" and "carbohydrate". Oh, and how these substances interact in the liver.

I've HAD high cholesterol.
Trust me. I didn't bring it down by avoiding coconuts.

I've also been on type II diabetes medication.

My health problems went away when I increased my consumption of healthy fats, lost weight, and started weight training.

And coconut oil was one of the healthy fats I learned to incorporate into my diet to improve my health.

Peace.

And Jazer, sorry for the threadjack.

In answer to your question, fats slow the rate of gastric emtying, as do some, but not all types of fiber. Insoluble fiber won't slow it, but soluble fiber can, so you might want to add some ground flax seed or guar gum.

You might also want to base your shake on casein, or a whey/casein blend as casein is a "slow" protein.

smalls
04-12-2005, 06:57 PM
Built- It's really great that saturated fats increase the immune system. And it was lauric acid i was referring to when i was talking about coconut oil's benefits. However to read the rest of this article, you must imagine a world where saturated fats has benefits as well as harms.

http://www.healthchecksystems.com/chol.htm




now thats fairly clear but I'll cite another since its the cool thing to do.


1. Hu FB, Manson JE, Stampfer MJ, et al. Diet, lifestyle, and the risk of type 2 diabetes mellitus in women. N Engl J Med 2001; 345:790-7.




yes thank you for your condescendingness, i appreciate it. Now while i've discussed the negative and positive benefits of coconut oil, would you like me to cite a few thousand sources on why and how much better mono-unsaturated and poly-unsaturated fats are for you?

To sum it up, Coconut oil is good and bad for you. Mono/Poly's are really good, and only slightly bad for you.

by the way, I am 16 but as we all know- age is not necessarily a great indicator of maturity.

And yes, I had a bad experience with coconuts when I was a kid, I'm sure you all can tell. :cry:


Now Jazer, so you're looking for a powder that you can make at home, that you can just mix up in some water? It seems easier just to bring some healthy trail mix with you that you can munch on, and then whip up a shake once you get home.

Jtyrell, you seem to be taking an extremely conservative one sided approach to a very broad topic. Of coarse you can say saturated fats have the potential to cause health problems because there are tons of studies that can be cited and used to poorly back up that argument, trust me every PhD in nutrition does it constantly, cuz it's EASY. But if you think it is the fat alone in someones diet that is causing raises in LDL and drops in HDL without looking at total diet and activity level then your missing the boat. The posatives health benefits to something like coconut oil outway the possible negatives, the same cannot be said for something like butter.
That being said, even if you where trying to make this argument against butter I would still be disagreeing because you seem to be trying to hugely simplify a very inclusive topic that covers more than just nutrition.
In short, if you think coconut oil in place of PB added to your diet with no other changes will negatively impact your lipid profile you need to better understand the studies you are reading.

JTyrell710
04-12-2005, 08:53 PM
Built- You win, you're too thorough for me to continue my fight against the damned coconuts. And I was citing that reference indirectly off another site, guess I'd better take up their bibliographical skills with them. Then again, I may have just read their citation wrongly.

Smalls- I agree there are benefits to coconut oil, I just think that Olive Oil would be a better substitute. I know that fat alone won't give you a heart attack, but that doesn't mean its not part of the problem. And I think that with all other factors remaining the same, replacing coconut oil with olive oil in a shake WOULD be better and healthier in most circumstances. If that's wrong, then I do need to study more. And I probably do, but don't we all.

Jazer- It seems like it'd be one heck of a hassle to create a powder you could carry with you that would be high in calories without just piling on the simple sugars unless you're looking for a cream-of-wheat type thing with protein. I think you could more easily create a good tasting, calorie-dense bar, in addition to some protein powder that you could carry around.

smalls
04-12-2005, 10:31 PM
Thanks for not taking my post too harshly. And I agree we could all do some more reading. Just dont argue against built cuz she is right, and that's the truth.

I think whey+egg protein powder+maltodextrin and psylium husk is going to be your best bet. Most gainers arent that expensive though.

Pup
04-14-2005, 07:43 AM
Smalls- I agree there are benefits to coconut oil, I just think that Olive Oil would be a better substitute. I know that fat alone won't give you a heart attack, but that doesn't mean its not part of the problem. And I think that with all other factors remaining the same, replacing coconut oil with olive oil in a shake WOULD be better and healthier in most circumstances. If that's wrong, then I do need to study more. And I probably do, but don't we all.


On the average, Olive Oil is always a preferred substitute, but from your points i was getting the impression you were trying to argue to stay away from saturated fat entirely. As half of the saturated fat in Coconut oil is in the form of MCTs, that would be a mistake IMHO. While olive oil is probably the best overall choice, there is the issue of it making a shake taste disgusting, some bodybuilders (like Chase or the other hardcore mofos) don't mind, but many people won't drink something that tastes like yesterday's garbage, Coconut oil on the other hand has a very pleasant taste and with its positive health benefits, it is a comparable substitution to olive oil when it comes to adding a tbsp or 2 to a shake.

I disagree a great deal with this particular point of yours "I know that fat alone won't give you a heart attack, but that doesn't mean its not part of the problem." My reason is that you cannot simply isolate one macronutrient as a potentiating factor in cardiovascular disease. Barring genetics, cardiovascular disease is often a lifestyle disease, there are so many factors involved it is just a blanket statement comparable saying you shouldn't ever leave your house for fear of being hit by a meteor.

jazer80
04-14-2005, 11:04 AM
On the average, Olive Oil is always a preferred substitute, but from your points i was getting the impression you were trying to argue to stay away from saturated fat entirely. As half of the saturated fat in Coconut oil is in the form of MCTs, that would be a mistake IMHO. While olive oil is probably the best overall choice, there is the issue of it making a shake taste disgusting, some bodybuilders (like Chase or the other hardcore mofos) don't mind, but many people won't drink something that tastes like yesterday's garbage, Coconut oil on the other hand has a very pleasant taste and with its positive health benefits, it is a comparable substitution to olive oil when it comes to adding a tbsp or 2 to a shake.

now that my weightgain thread has become about coconut oil,let me ask you this- is coconut oil in a form you can add to a shake? i thought it was solid,not liquid.

hemants
04-18-2005, 06:30 AM
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15539308

TheGimp
04-18-2005, 07:54 AM
What is your motivation for a home made MRP ?

If it is simply the carbs then you might want to check out www.proteinfactory.com

One of their carb options is rice oligodextrin which has a low GI

They also offer the option to add flax and MCT powders

hemants
04-18-2005, 09:27 AM
Rather than mixing a powder, I would make a shake every morning in a blender and put it in a thermal container - that way you can sip it all day long.

What I put in mine :

3 cups skim milk
4 scoops whey protein powder
2 tablespoons ground flax seeds
2 tablespoons natural peanut butter
3-4 tablespoons psyllium husk OR oat bran OR wheat bran
1 cup mixed berries

jazer80
04-18-2005, 09:38 AM
the idea here is no blender. i want a powder i can put in bags and leave at work, car, etc.





gimp, that link rules... might have to put in an order to them

TheGimp
04-18-2005, 10:44 AM
Ah cool, thought you might have already known about it and rejected it because of price; not that I have looked into the economics of it but I would guess you pay a premium for the customisation.

jazer80
04-18-2005, 11:25 AM
after i made my custom one out (didn't buy it, but you can play around and see prices) it came to 6.01 or something per pound. definitely not bad for a custom meal replacement powder, it had 3 types of protein, some kind of low glycemic carb, creatine, flax for fat and vitamins. very good link, thanks again