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Lean-N-Mean
04-16-2005, 08:42 PM
My morning routine (on an empty stomach) is everyday , running 20 minutes , about 2-2.5 miles, and ab workout (v-ups , crunches , and leg raises - 3 sets of each). I have already leaned out pretty well ( 152lbs. , 5'9") I am now trying to bulk up. Add 10 - 15 lbs of muscle. I have increased my caloric intake considerably , but should I cut back on the cardio if I am trying to bulk? Thanks.

Built
04-16-2005, 08:56 PM
I don't do any cardio on a bulk.

Patz
04-16-2005, 08:56 PM
you shouldn't do abs every day. they need rest just like every other muscle. if you're going to bulk, I'd say you should cut the cardio down to 3 days per week, and especially at 152--you'll need all the calorie help you can get. those cardio sessions aren't too intensely long, though, so I think you'll be fine if you aren't on it every day. maybe even just do it on off days.

Built
04-16-2005, 08:58 PM
I absolutely agree about the ab work - I do mine once or twice a week, max.

But cardio 3x a week for a bulk mrelwooddowd? Is this what you do when you're bulking?

Patz
04-16-2005, 09:09 PM
I absolutely agree about the ab work - I do mine once or twice a week, max.

But cardio 3x a week for a bulk mrelwooddowd? Is this what you do when you're bulking?

I'm already fat. I've spent my whole life bulking..lol. I've just heard people say many times to do cardio no more than three times per week.

He's also only doing 20min sessions, which aren't even the recommended 30min to get the heart-rate up.

Lean-N-Mean
04-16-2005, 09:22 PM
thanks guys thats what i thought , i was just following a routine from a book I bought a couple of years ago. I think the routine is geared towards sculpting , but not really increasing mass. My abs look good , so i will cut those down to 3 sessions a week as well as the cardio.

Built
04-16-2005, 09:25 PM
No no no - abs once or at most twice a week, in short, heavy, weighted sets.

Lean-N-Mean
04-16-2005, 09:31 PM
I don't use weights I just do 3 or 4 sets of each. 25 crunches , 15 leg lifts , 15 v -ups , and 25 more crunches. I think that is why I can get away with doing them everyday because I don't use any weights (IMHO , which is probably wrong , lol).

Vido
04-16-2005, 09:36 PM
Cardio's good for you. Do it and it just means you get to eat more.

Built
04-16-2005, 09:40 PM
This is REALLY old school. And not particularly effective, IMHO.

Work your abs in short, heavy, weighted sets, just like any other muscle.

You wouldn't destroy your legs 3x a week, so why destroy your abs with all this light work?

I do 3 sets of 8-10 weighted abs after one of my upper body days, and sometimes another 3 sets of a different weighted ab exercise on another day, and that's it.

These are my abs:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v219/Built/efe8540d.jpg

Lean-N-Mean
04-16-2005, 09:50 PM
I think I have gotten so used to doinig abs and running that I feel almost like I am being lazy if I don't do it. It will take some getting used to.

BTW- I guess your probably right , looking at your abs :).

Built
04-16-2005, 09:52 PM
Hmmm... You say "lazy" like it's a BAD thing. :scratch:

Lean-N-Mean
04-16-2005, 09:56 PM
Hmmm... You say "lazy" like it's a BAD thing. :scratch:

No being lazy isn't bad. I just meant that I got so used to doing it all the time that if I only do it 1 or 2 times a week it will seem like I am being lazy. That's all.

Built
04-16-2005, 09:59 PM
Then, GOOD!

:)

Lean-N-Mean
04-16-2005, 10:05 PM
He's also only doing 20min sessions, which aren't even the recommended 30min to get the heart-rate up.

Thats why I do them on an empty stomach right after I wake up in the morning. At least according to my book the body will go straight to burning fat as it has no stored up carbs or any other fuel source to go after. Hence the shorter time you need to run.

Built
04-16-2005, 10:06 PM
This is correct - steady state in the AM is fine. No intervals, though.

ancom41
04-16-2005, 10:09 PM
Built, did you have surgery on your left elbow? or is that just a huge scar from something else?

Built
04-16-2005, 10:11 PM
Surgery, correct.

I broke both my arms in a bicycle accident 10 years ago. There was an 8" freaking BOLT in my left arm for a year to hold it together, but I had it removed.

Lean-N-Mean
04-16-2005, 10:23 PM
I do 3 sets of 8-10 weighted abs after one of my upper body days, and sometimes another 3 sets of a different weighted ab exercise on another day, and that's it.


What weighted exercises are you refering too? Machines or doing crunches with a plate on your chest.

Vido
04-16-2005, 10:24 PM
He's also only doing 20min sessions, which aren't even the recommended 30min to get the heart-rate up.

There's no way it takes 30 minutes to get your heart rate up.

Jabberwocky
04-16-2005, 10:26 PM
Maybe if you had just regained conciousness?

dissipate
04-16-2005, 10:26 PM
what book are you reading? :P

Vido
04-16-2005, 10:27 PM
And btw, Built = :hump: :drooling: :hump: :drooling: :hump: :drooling: :hump: :drooling: :hump: :drooling: :hump: :drooling: :hump:

Lean-N-Mean
04-16-2005, 10:29 PM
There's no way it takes 30 minutes to get your heart rate up.
Exactly! After 20 minutes of 7.0 mph my heart rate is nice and elevated. And that's not really that fast.

dissipate
04-16-2005, 10:32 PM
can built paste her whole set of photos somewhere with her workout and diet? :D

Lean-N-Mean
04-16-2005, 10:32 PM
what book are you reading? :P

The Body Sculpting Bible For Men. Copyright 2001 ( a bit older than I initially thought)

Built
04-16-2005, 10:32 PM
What weighted exercises are you refering too? Machines or doing crunches with a plate on your chest.


Interesting you should pick the two things I do. One is a machine crunch, the other is a floor crunch with a rolled up towel under my tailbone, and a plate on my chest.

I occasionally try rope pulls, too.

Built
04-16-2005, 10:33 PM
And Vido,

Thank you.

:kiss:

Lean-N-Mean
04-16-2005, 10:36 PM
Interesting you should pick the two things I do. One is a machine crunch, the other is a floor crunch with a rolled up towel under my tailbone, and a plate on my chest.

I occasionally try rope pulls, too.
I recognized your style , lol!

Sidior
04-16-2005, 10:40 PM
can built paste her whole set of photos somewhere with her workout and diet? :D

best idea I have heard in ages:D

btw, awesome abs built

Miss Rezza
04-16-2005, 10:47 PM
Awesome body built!! Damn girl!

I'm speechless.

Built
04-16-2005, 10:50 PM
Thank you very much Sidior.

Dissipate, I'm packing for a business trip tonight (and hence, wasting time on the internet LOL!) but I'll post up some stuff when I'm back on Wednesday.

Remind me?

Built
04-16-2005, 10:50 PM
Thank you Miss Rezza!

Manveet
04-16-2005, 11:03 PM
Great pic Built!

Patz
04-16-2005, 11:09 PM
There's no way it takes 30 minutes to get your heart rate up.

I apologize for the non-specific post. I believe that I learned at some point that 30 minutes of an elevated heart rate will help you to burn fat for the next 12 hours--or something to that effect. That's what I was referring to.

Or maybe the resting heart rate is up for the next 12 hours, which in effect helps to burn fat.

Built
04-16-2005, 11:15 PM
Thank you Manveet!

Mrdowd,

I think the conventional wisdom has been that it takes 20-30 minutes of cardio before you burn through your blood sugar (and maybe glycogen?) and start tapping into fat stores.

This point is pretty much moot for AM empty or post-lifting cardio, as I understand it.

mihorne
04-16-2005, 11:28 PM
i like your jeans, built

Built
04-16-2005, 11:36 PM
:)

Zygote
04-16-2005, 11:36 PM
You can only lose muscle if you over train like professional athletes such as long distance runners. Doing aerobics for an hour a day for all seven days a week is safe in terms of losing muscle. You may not lose any muscle within these limits if your body is supplied with enough nutrition support and the overall process remains anabolic. Exercising beyond this limit increases the chances of both muscle loss as well as injury.
I have to agree with this article -= LINKAGE =- (http://health.indiatimes.com/articleshow/37451864.cms)

And also:


However, there are trainers who prescribe extensive cardiovascular training for even those whose primary aim is to gain muscle mass. That is because aerobics can enhance recovery from weight training by promoting blood flow and transporting oxygen to your muscles. Further, aerobics forces oxygen throughout the body, increasing the number and size of your blood vessels. So aerobics actually support muscle nourishment and are good for health, fat burning and even muscle building.

I can't see how you could be losing muscle if your nutrition is sufficient as proteolysis is only going to accelerate if theres an insufficient supply of protein.

Only downside or perhaps upside is you get to eat more food heh.

Zygote

Built
04-16-2005, 11:39 PM
I think this might depend upon one's age, son.

If I did an hour of cardio every day, I think I'd be ill.

Unless it was just walking. I think I could probably handle that much without injury.

I'd be freaking BORED though...

Zygote
04-16-2005, 11:40 PM
Hehe I love running :)

MnM
04-16-2005, 11:50 PM
nice pic built :thumbup:

Built
04-17-2005, 12:28 AM
Thanks MnM.

:)

bobk07
04-17-2005, 06:58 AM
doing weighted ab excercises will make you abds thick and stick out. I personally will never do them. I like the nice flat ab look such as brad pitt in fight club. so you you want your abs to protude then weighted excercises are for you, if not i'd stick to weightless abs excercises

smalls
04-17-2005, 12:29 PM
doing weighted ab excercises will make you abds thick and stick out. I personally will never do them. I like the nice flat ab look such as brad pitt in fight club. so you you want your abs to protude then weighted excercises are for you, if not i'd stick to weightless abs excercises

Explain to me physiologically the difference. Yes targeting fast twitch muscle fibers will promote more growth, then slow twitch fibers. But your overall bodysize and muscularity is going to have a larger effect on your abs "protruding" than what weight you use to crunch. Lots of people use high reps and still have thick abs, lots of people use weighted ab exercises and have flatter abs.
There are pro's that dont even do ab exercises, but based on their other training, and the fact that they weigh 300 fookin lbs there abs stick out. There is a lot more too it than wieghted vs non-weighted.

ancom41
04-17-2005, 12:52 PM
lol, built, look what you started :D

bobk07
04-17-2005, 02:14 PM
abs are the same as arms, the more weight the bigger they get. its that simple. if you do a lot of reps at less weight on the bench you wont get as big as lower reps with heavy weight. its basically the same concept with abs. and of course genetics has something to do with your body shape but you have no control over that.

Franco
04-17-2005, 02:57 PM
Excellent conditioning Built

Lean-N-Mean
04-17-2005, 03:34 PM
Yeah by doing abs everyday for the last 2+ months I have noticed my abs are well defined , but not freakishly big. I need to get just that slight bit of fat off of them than they will look fantastic. Also a I have little bit of annoying fat around the love handle region... any suggestions on making that disappear.

bobk07
04-17-2005, 03:59 PM
diet and cardio. Abs are made in the kitchen.

Lean-N-Mean
04-17-2005, 04:09 PM
diet and cardio. Abs are made in the kitchen.
No magic pill huh?

bobk07
04-17-2005, 04:21 PM
nah sorry bud. well ephedra is comin back and that might help. but you might wanna steer clear of that unless you like having strokes.

Lean-N-Mean
04-17-2005, 04:31 PM
nah sorry bud. well ephedra is comin back and that might help. but you might wanna steer clear of that unless you like having strokes.
tuttut
No thanks , the only stokes I get are on the golf course.

getfit
04-17-2005, 04:36 PM
No magic pill huh?
i would concentrate more on diet then anything else and those abs will come along!

Lean-N-Mean
04-17-2005, 04:42 PM
i would concentrate more on diet then anything else and those abs will come along!
Oh yeah I am just kidding right now. I have no intentions of using pharmacueticals to get rid of the little bit that I have left.

bobk07
04-17-2005, 05:14 PM
But seriously, eat 5-6 small high protein meals a day and watch your intake of refined carbs. If you eat 5-6 small meals a day you can eat less cals and still not be hungry. It will also raise your metabolism. By getting good protien you should be loosing fat while maintaining muscle if you keep up with the weights. Stay disaplined when it comes to diet and you'll be sportin some nice abs.

smalls
04-17-2005, 06:20 PM
It will also raise your metabolism.

Eating more frequently has many benefits, increasing your metabolism is not one of them. Please stop spouting off myths as facts unless you back it up thanks.

bobk07
04-17-2005, 07:00 PM
Umm ok buddy let me word it diffrently for ya. It keeps ur metabolism running, hence you burn more cals. Thanks.

smalls
04-17-2005, 07:59 PM
Umm ok buddy let me word it diffrently for ya. It keeps ur metabolism running, hence you burn more cals. Thanks.

Wrong again bro, the metabolism does not adapt that quickly. Eating more frequently does not mean burning more calories.
As a general outline your advice is good. But you are just regurgatating incorrect myths from any number of mags and articles. This site is above that. I'm not trying to be a dick, just trying to keep thing legit.

bobk07
04-17-2005, 08:55 PM
ive heard that time and time again. theres a reason if you try to got on a very restrictive diet you hold on to fat. wheras if you ate more cals ud loose more. if you miss a meal or somthin or you starve your self with just a couple small meals your body trys to hold on to anything it can. humans havent changed jn 40,000 years since that was nessisary back when they were scavengers not knowing when the next meal is. so im not tryin to spread false news but i hvent heard anything that would tell me im wrong. if you give me some evidence that im wrong ill admit it.

smalls
04-17-2005, 09:20 PM
The body does not adapt to missing one meal or even having 2 meals a day instead of 6. It takes time for the body to realize it is in a CALORIC DEFECIT, not a meal defecit and then adjust accordingly. Starvation mode is real and it is controled by hormones in the body (probably the most important being leptin), but starvation is triggered by a lack in calories, whether those cals come in 3 meals or 9 they are still the same.
What you have heard time and time again is a true principle surrounded by myths.

I still would encourage people to eat at least 5 times daily mostly to prevent hunger and to give stable blood sugar and a more consistent amino acid supply. But not to burn more cals.

Lean-N-Mean
04-17-2005, 09:26 PM
I am eating about every 2 to 3 hours. I'll list my typical day now that I have decided to try and add mass. I have been cutting the past couple of months.
-3 protein drinks - 40g protein on average ( Whey Powder , Fat Free milk , Scoop Natty Pb and 2 Pasturized Egg Whites)
-1 or 2 yogurts - Sugar Free
-2/3 cup Fat Free Cottage Cheese
-1 PB&J sandwhich ( Whole Wheat , Natty PB and Sugar Free Jelly)
-6oz grilled chicken breast mixed with steamed whole grain rice and steamed kidney beans.
*I have a shake pre and post and the third usually in the evening
* I alternate the Pb&J with Tuna on Whole wheat every 3rd day.
*Every 3rd day or so I will have Salmon or a Filet Mignon instead of Chicken , either with steamed veggies.

How's it look? Any suggestions?

Vido
04-17-2005, 09:29 PM
Good posts smalls.

smalls
04-17-2005, 09:46 PM
Thanks bro.

Leannmean, it's hard to say, overall the diet looks good but could you possibly break it down to total cals and macronutrients. What was your caloric intake when dieting?

Lean-N-Mean
04-17-2005, 09:50 PM
Thanks bro.

Leannmean, it's hard to say, overall the diet looks good but could you possibly break it down to total cals and macronutrients. What was your caloric intake when dieting?

sure about 230/230/ 20-30 and about 2300-2500 cals. When I was cutting I was at probably 1500-1700 cals. I just hope this will be enough to encourage some muscle growth.

smalls
04-17-2005, 09:59 PM
Unless you have a very slow metabolism I dont think that's gonna do the trick. How long have you been bulking on this current diet? I would increase your fat intake first and then increase carbs and protein.

Lean-N-Mean
04-17-2005, 10:08 PM
Unless you have a very slow metabolism I dont think that's gonna do the trick. How long have you been bulking on this current diet? I would increase your fat intake first and then increase carbs and protein.
Well it's early on in the bulking it will be 1 week tomorrow. I just feel really full on this current diet , I guess getting only 1500-1700 cals for actually 3 months now has kind of screwed up my sense of hunger. I was hoping that by bumping my cal intake 500-600 a day it would be enough to increase mass , at least slowly. You say to increase fat , why , and how , what kind of fats?

Patz
04-17-2005, 10:37 PM
Well it's early on in the bulking it will be 1 week tomorrow. I just feel really full on this current diet , I guess getting only 1500-1700 cals for actually 3 months now has kind of screwed up my sense of hunger. I was hoping that by bumping my cal intake 500-600 a day it would be enough to increase mass , at least slowly. You say to increase fat , why , and how , what kind of fats?

unsaturated fats

peanut butter, or most types of nuts

olive oil

fish oil

stuff like that

omega 3's and 6's



just read the labels

Lean-N-Mean
04-17-2005, 10:43 PM
unsaturated fats

peanut butter, or most types of nuts

olive oil

fish oil

stuff like that

omega 3's and 6's



just read the labels

Okay but why do I need more fats? How does this help with bulking? Just curious.

fixationdarknes
04-17-2005, 10:59 PM
Built, you look way better than all of the models on TV. And nice abs. :)

smalls
04-17-2005, 11:07 PM
Fats are essential to hormone production as well as central nervous function and forming cell membranes, among other things. If you have really been cutting for months on low fat I would imagine your hormone production could only benefit from increasing fat intake. Get some saturated fats in too. I would continue to slowly increase cals throughout this bulk as indicated by weight gain. Going from a cut to a bulk you should have put weight on this week.

mercury
04-18-2005, 12:09 AM
Hey Built...are you the same "Built" from lowcarber.org?

Lean-N-Mean
04-18-2005, 08:04 AM
Fats are essential to hormone production as well as central nervous function and forming cell membranes, among other things. If you have really been cutting for months on low fat I would imagine your hormone production could only benefit from increasing fat intake. Get some saturated fats in too. I would continue to slowly increase cals throughout this bulk as indicated by weight gain. Going from a cut to a bulk you should have put weight on this week.
I am going to the gym , going to weigh myself. I will see if I have. It looks like I have , meaning I look a little fuller than I did before , but we will see if anything has materialized weight wise.

Lean-N-Mean
04-18-2005, 09:56 AM
154lbs - A couple of lbs. so far.

smalls
04-18-2005, 12:09 PM
I would imagine your weight gain will stagnate very quickly (like next week) I would start increasing those cals pretty quickly as the weight you have currently put on is most likely water+glycogen stores+undigested food. Keep it up.

Built
04-18-2005, 03:39 PM
Fixation, that was a very sweet thing to say. I'm cutting and grumpy, and you just made my day.

Mercury, I think I may have joined there, but I don't think I ever posted.

I was at another lowcarb board a long time ago, but I got the boot for some unknown reason.

:)

Lean-N-Mean
04-18-2005, 09:35 PM
I would imagine your weight gain will stagnate very quickly (like next week) I would start increasing those cals pretty quickly as the weight you have currently put on is most likely water+glycogen stores+undigested food. Keep it up.
Yeah , I was thinking the same thing exactly. Well , I would chat some more , but I got to go eat something.

Lean-N-Mean
04-18-2005, 09:37 PM
Maybe I will do some "dirty" bulking. Grilled chicken followed by brownies covered in peanut butter. Mmmm... :)

Lean-N-Mean
04-20-2005, 09:26 AM
*UPDATE* I have been eating my Ass off the last few days. After workout I weighed 157! Hopefully this weight will stick.