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Hazerboy
04-19-2005, 08:32 PM
I'm planning of trying out westside over the summer and fall. I think I will be using the routine here: http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=46

So far I've read a lot about it on elitefts.com in the article sections, and it looks like it would be great for developing the speed and explosiveness I need for wrestling. Though I still have a few questions.

I have been told that I need to change my ME lifts a maximum of every three weeks. However for the ME squat/deadlift day all this routine and many others list are good mornings. Am I supposed to simply do different types of Good mornings then every three weeks, such as close and wide stances or good morning squats? Also I am under the impression that reverse hypers are VERY important, as every westside program I've seen mentions them with good mornings as great for developing the "posterour chain." However my home gym and our gym at school does not have this machine. What is a good alternative?


Also what are some other good ME bench workouts that I can switch to after a few weeks? And because I am training for wrestling I was considering doing a more bicep/lat work then the program suggests, such as bent rows with pull-ups and DB curls or chin-ups, DB rows and straightbar curls. Would this add to much volume to my workout?

I lifted weights a lot last summer but I did not see NEARLY the results I wanted, so this summer I'm being very consciouse on the routine I'm doing and my diet (I also don't have a lot of time to get strong either). Ever since january I have been lifting again, and in February I got my diet in check and I started gaining some weight. Now I'm just focusing on strength, and by October 1 I would like to Bench 200, squat 320, clean 200, and deadlift 300 (not sure what My max is on deadlift, but last week I did 225 for 5 reps ) without getting over 170 pounds. Also, where do I work in cleans for my work out? Should I just do them as one of the assisted excercises for speed squat day?

Thanks for any help you guys can give me. My coach has never really heard of this style of powerlifting, so I've been kind of *one my own.* Most of what I've seen on the internet isn't very specific on Westside routines either, (short of wannabebig) just the theory behind Westside.

AKraut
04-19-2005, 09:41 PM
Hey bud, I too have been looking at switching to Westside sometime here soon from my basic PL routine as I'm starting to box this summer. I don't know much on the subject but this article gave some other ME lifts you can switch to and was also a good read...

http://www.defrancostraining.com/articles/archive/articles_westside.htm

Sensei
04-19-2005, 10:33 PM
Westside is not nearly as complicated as it looks. Maybe you don't need another article, but here's one anyway:

Westside Made EZ
http://p083.ezboard.com/fmoosecallfrm7.showMessage?topicID=124.topic

Do cleans first, or on a different day, or rotate them in as a dynamic effort exercise.
You don't need a reverse hyper at all, but if you want to, you could do them using a stability ball on a bench and hanging weights off of your feet w. a dipping belt. Hard to explain w/o pictures - if I find any, I'll try to post them.
There are a lot of other accessory movements you could do in place of reverse hypers - just choose movements that will target your weaknesses (not just movements you like or are good at).

jazer80
04-20-2005, 11:14 AM
I'm planning of trying out westside over the summer and fall. I think I will be using the routine here: http://www.wannabebig.com/article.php?articleid=46

So far I've read a lot about it on elitefts.com in the article sections, and it looks like it would be great for developing the speed and explosiveness I need for wrestling. Though I still have a few questions.

good site, keep them bookmarked and refer back to them until you've got the hang of the program.



I have been told that I need to change my ME lifts a maximum of every three weeks. However for the ME squat/deadlift day all this routine and many others list are good mornings. Am I supposed to simply do different types of Good mornings then every three weeks, such as close and wide stances or good morning squats?
what's a good morning squat? never heard of that... anyways you're gonna make up teh bulk of your max effort exercises on leg day through squats, dl (deadlifts), good mornings (gm's), and all their variations. the idea is to keep switching it up. just swapping up the foot position between regular, tight, and wide gives you 9 different ME exercises with those three, then you can do other stuff, like box squats, rack pulls, pulling while standing on stuff, etc



Also I am under the impression that reverse hypers are VERY important, as every westside program I've seen mentions them with good mornings as great for developing the "posterour chain." However my home gym and our gym at school does not have this machine. What is a good alternative?
good luck finding a reverse hyper machine. those are few and far between, don't plan on having one in your routine.. they are great, so i hear, but you will be able to do very well w/o them



Also what are some other good ME bench workouts that I can switch to after a few weeks? And because I am training for wrestling I was considering doing a more bicep/lat work then the program suggests, such as bent rows with pull-ups and DB curls or chin-ups, DB rows and straightbar curls. Would this add to much volume to my workout?
ME bench stuff would be flat, incline, adn decline bench, all done with the 3 grips, so that's 9 exercises. also dips (don't work up to a single, maybe go for a 3RM), dumbbells (very infrequently tho, not a replacement for real bars). why can't you just do the bent rows / pullups as part of your westside program as one of your three accessory lifts? i don't think you need to add them in addition. i use them as accessory lifts very frequently. ( you do know that on a ME or DE day that you always do 3 sets of accessory lifts after your ME/DE work right?).


I lifted weights a lot last summer but I did not see NEARLY the results I wanted, so this summer I'm being very consciouse on the routine I'm doing and my diet (I also don't have a lot of time to get strong either). Ever since january I have been lifting again, and in February I got my diet in check and I started gaining some weight. Now I'm just focusing on strength, and by October 1 I would like to Bench 200, squat 320, clean 200, and deadlift 300 (not sure what My max is on deadlift, but last week I did 225 for 5 reps ) without getting over 170 pounds. Also, where do I work in cleans for my work out? Should I just do them as one of the assisted excercises for speed squat day?
i occasionally throw in some power cleans as an assistance workout, doesn't really matter if a ME/DE day. also, dont' go to failure, you'll raise chances of injury as you should already be fatigued by your day's ME/DE work

Hazerboy
04-20-2005, 07:06 PM
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I haven't started my program yet as I'm still in school, but I tried good mornings for the first time yesterday and my glutes/hams are in shreds. =-o

Also I wrestled freestyle with a group today and NOBODY believed I wrestled at 135 this year. 8-)

jazer80
04-20-2005, 07:40 PM
just watch your lower back doing all of the big squat/dl/gm movements, easy to lose form and flex it the wrong way... causing lots of problems. see it WAY too frequently in the gym, particularly during teh lowest part of a good morning or a dl, kids round their backs away from the weight. talk to your coach about the proper form if you don't already know it. here's a link too with pics/vids of tons of lifts. just click the guy's bodypart (click 'dorsal view', right above his head, for his other half)

http://www.bsu.edu/webapps/strengthlab/Home.htm

good luck

Hazerboy
04-20-2005, 09:02 PM
Actually, deadlifts are one of my more confident lifts form wise. Good mornings seem about the same as far as keeping your back arched.

Squat I'm still sort of messing around with. For a long while I thougth I had the form right, but It seems I was putting my chest a little too far forward (though I still keep a pretty good arch). My legs are nice and parallel though.

Hazerboy
04-22-2005, 11:37 PM
Out of curiosity, what kind of results can I expect on this kind of a program? I'll be working with a partner and I usually have great intensity. Since I'm still pretty new at weightlifting (a little less then a year) do you think I could expect to see some pretty big gains in the next 9 weeks or so? Maybe something like twenty or thirty pounds on my bench and 50 or 60 pounds added onto my squat?

Sensei
04-23-2005, 12:03 AM
Hazer,

I think you'll see significant progress on the big three pretty quickly as long as you work hard and smart in the weight room.

This is not a dig in any way, but I just looked at your numbers for the first time and I'm not sure I would bother w. WS until you have your form down and have built up a base of strength first. I would hit the big three heavy and hard while working on your sport(s) for a while. WS will always be there later.

Darracq
04-23-2005, 08:31 AM
Make sure to go off the chest once in awhile. I didnt and made no gains on bench, i could do more on boards but not when i went all the way donw.

Hazerboy
04-23-2005, 09:14 AM
Sensei I understand what you mean; I am still pretty unexperienced and I could still benefit a lot from many other simpler powerlifting routines, but my biggest problem is TIME. I only have 3 or 4 months to get really really strong, or else I'm going to get slaughtered next year wrestling at the 160 weight class.

I am pretty confident about my form on squat and deadlift. The only thing that is bothering me is my bench form, but I believe that will catch up once I strengthen my triceps.

conrad900
04-24-2005, 11:42 AM
Goodmornings can also be done from the pins of the squat rack (set the pins at the deepest part of your goodmorning and then start with the bar rested on the pins and let it rest between each rep...BRUTALLY hard. You'll soon learn by what they mean when they say 'bare down' on your belly), with chains, with bands (really fun) and seated (not recommended).

Reverse hypers can be done simply and inexpensively (the darn machines cost a bundle). If you have a fitball, put it on a bench. Wrap yourself over the ball so your legs are dangling over the edge towards the ground. Of course you should be gripping the bench super tight. Then simply lift your hips and legs, first with no sped (don't fall), and then, as you have control, speed it up. You won't need weight yet. Promise.

Sensei
04-24-2005, 01:55 PM
Sensei I understand what you mean; I am still pretty unexperienced and I could still benefit a lot from many other simpler powerlifting routines, but my biggest problem is TIME. I only have 3 or 4 months to get really really strong, or else I'm going to get slaughtered next year wrestling at the 160 weight class.

I am pretty confident about my form on squat and deadlift. The only thing that is bothering me is my bench form, but I believe that will catch up once I strengthen my triceps.

I understand you are in a hurry to get strong (we ALL are), but my point is that you may not make the gains as quickly w. WS as you would just focusing on the big three. I think you'll probably make great gains no matter what if you are eating, resting, and training hard, but IMHO you'd be better off doing something more basic... I put this link in my summarization of Westside, but you might have missed it, so here it is again: http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do;jsessionid=4ED85B19CE9A221F948A3D0BBA6E5F3B.ba08?article=288ba2 (Bustin' Ass 101: Don't Think You're a Beginner? You Could be Wrong! by Dave Tate)

conrad900
04-24-2005, 03:41 PM
I only have 3 or 4 months to get really really strong, or else I'm going to get slaughtered next year wrestling at the 160 weight class.

I am pretty confident about my form on squat and deadlift. The only thing that is bothering me is my bench form, but I believe that will catch up once I strengthen my triceps.

The powerlifts aren't the only surefire way to build the speed and power you need for wrestling. Heck, the bench, although fun, isn't near as functionally helpful as lifts that require no bench. Olympic lifts would be a good choice, or even some of the ones I've mentioned in my articles here (especially the Bar Thrust).

debussy
04-24-2005, 05:28 PM
I agree with the olympic lifts. I think those are very valueable for an athlete. Hazer, no offense... but I don't think you far along in weight training experience to be using westside. stick with progressive overload or some type of periodization and youll see good gains.

Paul Stagg
04-25-2005, 11:41 AM
If you are just starting out, use the Dave Tate or Bob Youngs beginner program.

jazer80
04-26-2005, 06:14 PM
I agree with the olympic lifts. I think those are very valueable for an athlete. Hazer, no offense... but I don't think you far along in weight training experience to be using westside. stick with progressive overload or some type of periodization and youll see good gains.
most people i know seem to be ready for a toned-down westside style program way before they are ready to do olympic lifts.

jazer80
04-26-2005, 06:14 PM
If you are just starting out, use the Dave Tate or Bob Youngs beginner program.
which programs are these? (sorry i didn't feel like digging through elite)

Adam
04-27-2005, 08:57 AM
Its the 9 week program(or 12?) available on elitefts.com