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b1982
04-20-2005, 06:12 PM
i have no idea how much sugar is too much in foods. im trying to get lean...watching my diet, increased cardio, etc etc....

during the day, im trying to find healthy snacks to stave off hunger in between meals...i like eating these honey bunches of oats cereal bars...they're low fat, but they pack about 9g of sugar per bar...is that a lot?

also ive heard eating fruits like oranges is not good at night cuz the insulin basically turns into fat while ur inactive at night and sleeping.

can anyone drop some knowledge on my ignorant self?

Built
04-20-2005, 06:20 PM
Honey bunches of oats would not be a good choice.

Focus your meals around protein, vegetables, and healthy fats.

Are you lifting?

YungLifter
04-20-2005, 06:23 PM
Fruit is a good healthy snack, it dooes have sugar but its natural not like the sugar in cookie etc. Ive heard that oranges are bad for you at night too, my cousin had bad experience when he ate a orange at night he stayed up all night with stomach pains. I'd eat fruit like strawberries, blue berries, rasberries, peachs, necturines, oranges these have lower sugar then most fruits, apples are great to. When you eat fruit since itss mostly carbs try to balance out w/ some protein, something like cottage cheese is great, high in protein like no carbs and is you get non-fat no fat either=) taste great with fruit too. I usually have 2-3 servings of fruit.

fixationdarknes
04-20-2005, 06:51 PM
I usually eat my cottage cheese with strawberries or pineapples every night. I don't think fruit at night is bad. If you eat too much, it definitely would be. But almost everything in this world is bad if you get too much.

YungLifter
04-20-2005, 06:54 PM
I was only talking about oranges, I heard they are bad to eat at night im guessing b/c they are citrius type fruit.

waynis
04-20-2005, 07:00 PM
sugar is your enemy. YOu never need to consume sugar. Excess will only lead to diabetes and so on. Sugar from fruit is fine in moderation. Eat a couple fruits a day with a meal or snack.

smalls
04-20-2005, 08:08 PM
sugar is your enemy. YOu never need to consume sugar. Excess will only lead to diabetes and so on. Sugar from fruit is fine in moderation. Eat a couple fruits a day with a meal or snack.

Not to be picking on you bro, but where are you getting your info from? Excess sugar intake has never been shown to cause diabetes. Sugar has it's uses, dextrose is the preferred PWO carb for many bodybuilders, should we all stop eating it due to the fact it's sugar.

Optimum08
04-20-2005, 08:55 PM
:withstupi

too much sugar is bad for u...obviously....but some sugar isn't that big of a deal IMO...just make sure its in moderation...

fixationdarknes
04-20-2005, 09:11 PM
:withstupi

too much sugar is bad for u...obviously....but some sugar isn't that big of a deal IMO...just make sure its in moderation...

Yep. As Smalls pointed out eariler, where would life be without dextrose in a PWO shake?

Shao-LiN
04-20-2005, 10:12 PM
Yep. As Smalls pointed out eariler, where would life be without dextrose in a PWO shake?

Same place. Lots of people eat whole foods post workout. There is no law stating that whey and dextrose are mandatory. They may be more ideal in that case, but they definately are not necessary.

Built
04-20-2005, 11:04 PM
:withstupi

I just can't control my appetite if I do whey with dex post workout while cutting. I'm sticking to oats pre and post for my carbs and it's working so far, touch wood.

Smalls, excess sugar consumption hasn't been linked with diabetes? You sure?

fixationdarknes
04-20-2005, 11:40 PM
Same place. Lots of people eat whole foods post workout. There is no law stating that whey and dextrose are mandatory. They may be more ideal in that case, but they definately are not necessary.

Well what if I'm at school when I'm lifting weights? I can't always bust out a plate of whole food and magically heat it up out of thin air.

And what if I'm limited on time? I've never eaten a plate of whole food in 5 seconds before.

Therefore, whey+dextrose are lifesavers <--my original point. Or at least...they're convenient. That's what I meant to say.

smalls
04-21-2005, 01:16 AM
:withstupi

I just can't control my appetite if I do whey with dex post workout while cutting. I'm sticking to oats pre and post for my carbs and it's working so far, touch wood.

Smalls, excess sugar consumption hasn't been linked with diabetes? You sure?

Yes, unless there have been studies done in the last couple weeks (although even I tell my little bro he's gonna get diabetes from all the pop he drinks, lol)
And I agree about the point of not needing dextrose. It's certainly not necassary but saying all sugar should always be avoided for all peoples is just foolish. Insulin is very anabolic.

Built
04-21-2005, 01:20 AM
Oh, I totally know about the anabolic nature of insulin, TRUST me.

But I had understood that there's a link between HFCS and type II diabetes in kids.

???

smalls
04-21-2005, 01:23 AM
I'm pretty sure the same link has been found with inactivity, fast food intake and a number of other things. It's next to impossible to dismiss the other counfounding variables in the studies done. I agree it's part of the problem, but it has more to do with obesity etc than sugar, ya know.

waynis
04-21-2005, 12:52 PM
Not to be picking on you bro, but where are you getting your info from? Excess sugar intake has never been shown to cause diabetes. Sugar has it's uses, dextrose is the preferred PWO carb for many bodybuilders, should we all stop eating it due to the fact it's sugar.

HUH??? we don't need sugar. We need glucose. And we can get it threw carbs, fats or proteins. Excess sugar is not necessary ever. Sure some dextrose might be helpful immediatly after workout but it's not necessary. Just get a continuous flow of glucose going threw eating every 3 hours or so and your fine. I don't believe post workout timing is as big of a deal as magazines have made us to believe. I have my education and am actually starting a new class/certification in a couple weeks. I'am not saying we have to avoid sugar all together, just saying we don't NEED it.

Built
04-21-2005, 01:01 PM
I'm pretty sure the same link has been found with inactivity, fast food intake and a number of other things. It's next to impossible to dismiss the other counfounding variables in the studies done. I agree it's part of the problem, but it has more to do with obesity etc than sugar, ya know.

Ahhh... we're on the same page.

Gets back to my "appetite control" conjecture. Eat lots of sugar, it makes you hungry, you overeat, become obese, develop type II diabetes...

From my point of view, the link is there, but it's indirect. It's not like eating sugar will MAKE you diabetic. It's not that simple.

Holto
04-21-2005, 01:01 PM
But I had understood that there's a link between HFCS and type II diabetes in kids.

???

especially when all the HFCS comes from candy and cola

I can't think of a healthy food that has a good amount of HFCS or any added sugar for that matter

there is a correlation with elevated *resting* insulin levels and diabetes

eating clean is a great way to manage resting levels

Built
04-21-2005, 01:02 PM
It is indeed. It's how I got off metformin.

Slim Schaedle
04-21-2005, 01:10 PM
HUH??? we don't need sugar. We need glucose. And we can get it threw carbs, fats or proteins. Excess sugar is not necessary ever. Sure some dextrose might be helpful immediatly after workout but it's not necessary. Just get a continuous flow of glucose going threw eating every 3 hours or so and your fine. I don't believe post workout timing is as big of a deal as magazines have made us to believe. I have my education and am actually starting a new class/certification in a couple weeks. I'am not saying we have to avoid sugar all together, just saying we don't NEED it.

You do know that glucose is sugar, right?

All you are doing is presenting a different way/philosophy in dieting. Smalls presented another way.

Saying "sugar is your enemy" in your initial post probably throws alot of people off, especially when you say
I'am not saying we have to avoid sugar all together, just saying we don't NEED it.

And it's "through," not "threw."

mle_ii
04-21-2005, 02:06 PM
You do know that glucose is sugar, right?

I may be messing up my terminology, but I was under the impression that glucose is not sugar. Though glucose can be created from sugars. There are other mechanisms to create glucose.

But I don't agree that sugar is evil. :) I've been doing a nice little bulk the last month using maltodextrin and dextrose, during and post lifting. Nothing compared to most folks here, but pretty substantial given my gains thus far.

And, hi there Built. :D

Built
04-21-2005, 02:14 PM
I'm pretty sure glucose is sugar. (Hi mle! <waves>)

Last time I checked.

Maybe you're thinking glycogen, mle?

mle_ii
04-21-2005, 02:20 PM
I'm pretty sure glucose is sugar. (Hi mle! <waves>)

Last time I checked.

Maybe you're thinking glycogen, mle?

See I knew I was messing up my terminology. LOL Yes, glycogen. Duh!

spanky33
04-21-2005, 07:30 PM
sugar is glucose + fructose. (called sucrose).
and sugar is DEFINITELY not bad for you. no diabetes.
there are two main problems associated with sugar in my opinion. 1) bad teeth (if u dont brush). this happens because bacteria in your mouth convert some sugar into an acid, which rot your teeth. brushing your teeth eliminates this problem.
2) satiation. if you eat high carbs low fat, you will be hungry more often.

But in terms of health, sugar is absolutely fine.

spanky33
04-21-2005, 07:30 PM
and glycogen is a long chain of glucose molecules stored in your liver btw...

Slim Schaedle
04-21-2005, 07:47 PM
sugar is glucose + fructose. (called sucrose).

There are other types of sugar. You can't refer to sugar only as sucrose.
(there's fructose, glucose, sucrose, galactose, lactose,....)



and glycogen is a long chain of glucose molecules stored in your liver btw...

And in muscles

smalls
04-21-2005, 08:24 PM
HUH??? we don't need sugar. We need glucose. And we can get it threw carbs, fats or proteins. Excess sugar is not necessary ever. Sure some dextrose might be helpful immediatly after workout but it's not necessary. Just get a continuous flow of glucose going threw eating every 3 hours or so and your fine. I don't believe post workout timing is as big of a deal as magazines have made us to believe. I have my education and am actually starting a new class/certification in a couple weeks. I'am not saying we have to avoid sugar all together, just saying we don't NEED it.

Do not put words into my mouth. No where did I say sugar was necassary, I said it had uses. Do you understand the anabolism associated with insulin?
I also never said post workout nutrient timing was a "big deal" I said many bodybuilders use dex PWO. This amount of sugar at that time has it's uses and shouldnt be discounted or associated with the ****ing risk of diabetes.
There are very few things we NEED.
You just seem to be giving widespread advice as a general rule, but everyone has different goals. And please dont use education to back up your argument, I talk to PhD's in this field almost daily and even they spew bull**** like you wouldnt beleive.

spanky33
04-21-2005, 08:46 PM
Table sugar is sucrose. Lactose is generally referred to as a disaccharide rather than a sugar. Galactose and fructose are definitely not sugars. They are monosaccharides.

Isaac Wilkins
04-21-2005, 09:09 PM
Table sugar is sucrose. Lactose is generally referred to as a disaccharide rather than a sugar. Galactose and fructose are definitely not sugars. They are monosaccharides.

Monosaccharides are generally referred to as sugars, simple sugars in fact.

Lactose is a disaccharide, it happens to be a bonded glucose and galactose. This is still considered a sugar, just as sucrose is.

spanky33
04-21-2005, 09:12 PM
i agree. but i think the original post was referring to sugar as in sucrose. i dont think anyone in this forum would consider lactose bad. we chug milk! lol

Slim Schaedle
04-21-2005, 09:17 PM
i agree. but i think the original post was referring to sugar as in sucrose. i dont think anyone in this forum would consider lactose bad. we chug milk! lol


Maybe you should make absolutely sure what the original poster meant by sugar before posting information on this site that is partly wrong.

Also, the original poster referenced honey bunches of oats, and oranges in his question. Well, that would be high-fructose corn syrup and fructose, respectively. (sugars)

spanky33
04-21-2005, 09:18 PM
i'm 100% sure the original poster didn't think lactose would give him diabetes.

Slim Schaedle
04-21-2005, 09:21 PM
can anyone drop some knowledge on my ignorant self?


i'm 100% sure the original poster didn't think lactose would give him diabetes

Are you sure?

spanky33
04-21-2005, 09:23 PM
why would you ask if i'm sure if you quoted me as saying 'i'm 100% sure'..........

Slim Schaedle
04-21-2005, 09:23 PM
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sugar

A sweet crystalline or powdered substance, white when pure, consisting of sucrose obtained mainly from sugar cane and sugar beets and used in many foods, drinks, and medicines to improve their taste.
Also called table sugar.

Any of a class of water-soluble crystalline carbohydrates, including sucrose and lactose, having a characteristically sweet taste and classified as monosaccharides, disaccharides, and trisaccharides.

A unit, such as a lump or cube, in which sugar is dispensed or taken.

Slang. Sweetheart. Used as a term of endearment.

Slim Schaedle
04-21-2005, 09:25 PM
why would you ask if i'm sure if you quoted me as saying 'i'm 100% sure'..........

B/c if the poster admitted to being ignorant about the topic, I wouldn't be so sure that he was sure that lactose didn't contribute to diabtetes. But that's just me. I was just checking.

spanky33
04-21-2005, 09:26 PM
ok fine. u win. lactose causes diabetes. now go **** your dictionary

Slim Schaedle
04-21-2005, 09:27 PM
ok fine. u win. lactose causes diabetes.
I never said that.

now go **** your dictionary
I can't, it's a website.
I really don't see the need to be so harsh.

ReelBigFish
04-21-2005, 09:59 PM
Table sugar is sucrose. Lactose is generally referred to as a disaccharide rather than a sugar. Galactose and fructose are definitely not sugars. They are monosaccharides.

Saccharide=sugar Monosaccharide means "one""sugar" and di means "two". Those are just scientific names for the sugars.

smalls
04-21-2005, 11:52 PM
ok fine. u win. lactose causes diabetes. now go **** your dictionary

WOW, how you managed to get so off topic and miss slim's point so badly is amazing. You where wrong on a small issue, admit it and move on.

ryuage
04-21-2005, 11:54 PM
Well what if I'm at school when I'm lifting weights? I can't always bust out a plate of whole food and magically heat it up out of thin air.

And what if I'm limited on time? I've never eaten a plate of whole food in 5 seconds before.

Therefore, whey+dextrose are lifesavers <--my original point. Or at least...they're convenient. That's what I meant to say.

what school do you go to... where you cant eat a meal or have a few minutes break... especially during gym =\ and who says you have to heat it up.

waynis
04-22-2005, 03:09 PM
You do know that glucose is sugar, right?

All you are doing is presenting a different way/philosophy in dieting. Smalls presented another way.

Saying "sugar is your enemy" in your initial post probably throws alot of people off, especially when you say

And it's "through," not "threw."

The sugar he was talking about probably refers to sucrose. That's what I was referring too. But excess of any type of sugar can be your worst enemy if your not careful. I'am sensitive to sugar topics cause i know too many people who have diabetes or low blood sugar like myself. IMO sugar is the enemy and you have to watch out how much you consume.

OHH, it's my opinion too!! IT's not law. NUFF said. OHH, please correct my nuff. I spelled it wrong. :rolleyes:

waynis
04-22-2005, 03:16 PM
You just seem to be giving widespread advice as a general rule, but everyone has different goals. And please dont use education to back up your argument, I talk to PhD's in this field almost daily and even they spew bull**** like you wouldnt beleive.

OHH I guess you know everything smalls. So we shouldn't give advice without checking with you first I guess? Your another guy who needs to get off his high horse. This is a forum where people lay down their opinions and not everyones opinion is going to be the same. And you can't expect them to be.

Built
04-22-2005, 03:24 PM
Whoa, settle down hon.

I've been overweight and on metformin, so I understand where you are coming from.

But you have to remember that how a bodybuilder's body uses sugars, and how a non-athlete's body uses sugars are quite different.

BBs use a strong insulin spike in a deliberate way. It's beneficial at that time (the post workout anabolic window). It's not particularly beneficial at other times, but everybody handles it differently depending on their own levels of insulin sensitivity and metabolic rate. And if it makes you hungry on a bulk, that's a good thing.

To make a blanket statement that "sugar is bad" is just too much of an oversimplification.

And this is coming from someone who regards sugar as a dietary supplement, and occasional recreational drug.

Duuuude! 'Eeeear!

waynis
04-22-2005, 03:59 PM
To make a blanket statement that "sugar is bad" is just too much of an oversimplification.


True. I guess the way it came out wasn't exactly what I ment. Also like I said I was commenting more towards table sugar. Sugar does have it's purpose. I know.. i'am just sensitive about it. It can be dangerous as well as helpful. I'll apoligize for that kind of statement and not going into full detail about why I felt that way.

Slim Schaedle
04-22-2005, 04:12 PM
This is a forum where people lay down their opinions and not everyones opinion is going to be the same. And you can't expect them to be.

Very true, but I think people should fully explain themsleves as to differentiate between opnions and facts, so that we don't have to evaluate your posts ourselves and label your thinkings as blanket statements which may tend to confuse noobies.

That's probably why you felt we were coming down on you.

smalls
04-22-2005, 06:45 PM
[QUOTE=waynis][QUOTE]OHH I guess you know everything smalls. So we shouldn't give advice without checking with you first I guess?


Pretty much, lol


Your another guy who needs to get off his high horse. This is a forum where people lay down their opinions and not everyones opinion is going to be the same. And you can't expect them to be.


You pretty much just argued my point for me. Stating things as opinions or suggestions is recomened, just make sure it's clear that it is only a suggestion or opinion. I'm sure i'm guilty of this too, but being all knowing has it's benefits.

waynis
04-23-2005, 10:08 AM
Very true, but I think people should fully explain themsleves as to differentiate between opnions and facts.

Right.. but it seems today that no one can say how they feel without putting IMO in the end of a sentence. :rolleyes:

I know my statement was very blank. I'll admit that.

galileo
04-23-2005, 10:12 AM
Waynis speaks before thinking IMO.

waynis
04-23-2005, 10:15 AM
[QUOTE][QUOTE=waynis]

You pretty much just argued my point for me. Stating things as opinions or suggestions is recomened, just make sure it's clear that it is only a suggestion or opinion. I'm sure i'm guilty of this too, but being all knowing has it's benefits.

I'll make sure to put a disclaimer at then end of all my posts :rolleyes:

I think everyone should recongnize it's always opinion or suggestion. None of us have all the answers. We only know what's up to date. What we've learned as "fact" 5 years ago is now looked as a joke. You can't go around acting like you know what is "incorrect".

Built
04-23-2005, 10:17 AM
No, but it's a good idea to keep a level head and provide references when posting up information that might go against what most people would consider the norm.

<sigh>

Why can't everybody just talk dirty and get along....

waynis
04-23-2005, 10:17 AM
Waynis speaks before thinking IMO.

GOOD thing you put IMO at the end because then it would have been fact :rolleyes:

but I admit I'am guilty of that sometimes. We all do it from time to time. I'am working on it ;)

galileo
04-23-2005, 10:18 AM
I'll make sure to put a disclaimer at then end of all my posts :rolleyes:

Will that come before or after the rolleyes you never seem to forget?

smalls
04-23-2005, 10:21 AM
[QUOTE=smalls][QUOTE]

I'll make sure to put a disclaimer at then end of all my posts :rolleyes:

I think everyone should recongnize it's always opinion or suggestion. None of us have all the answers. We only know what's up to date. What we've learned as "fact" 5 years ago is now looked as a joke. You can't go around acting like you know what is "incorrect".

Agreed about opinion and suggestion. Knowing what is "correct" is completely different than knowing what is "incorrect". And the majority of the time I very well can go around knowing what is incorrect when it is blatant and obvious. (which your diabetes statement was)
All we can do is give general advice that is not incorrect, because just as you stated facts are hard to come by.