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hardgainer169
05-04-2005, 12:57 PM
Got any great methods or "secrets" you use when bulking, that really helped you to get a few extra calories, and pack on pounds? Skinny guys like me need this kind of help so it would be great to hear any input.

PowerManDL
05-04-2005, 01:02 PM
Eat a lot of food.

leanmuscle
05-04-2005, 01:08 PM
Eat, eat, eat, then when you're full eat some more.

hardgainer169
05-04-2005, 01:23 PM
sorry, maybe i wasnt totally clear on this. What i mean is like a particular method you use to add calories. For example, here is one of my own:
I just make a massive bulking shake right before bed and swig it down, about 1200 calories. It really tops off the eveniing and makes me that much further ahead in bulking. Now, I know enough about bulking that I think Im doing it right (eating til I almost puke 6x per day.) but what about little secrets that really put you one up, really helped you along your way?

getfit
05-04-2005, 01:26 PM
for me when i was bulking a just polished off a jar of natty pb a day and 3 tall glasses of milk or soya milk it seemed to have worked for me

Progress
05-04-2005, 01:32 PM
Never let yourself get hungry.

MrWebb78
05-04-2005, 01:35 PM
when youre thristy, drink juice instead of water(extra calories).

always eat past full, but not so much you'll puke.

set an alarm in the middle of the night for a midnight snack, something tasty and quick like yogurt or PB, then go back to sleep.

take a shot of olive oil twice a day.

fish caps are easy extra healthy cals.

drink whole milk, or 2% instead of 1% or skim.

there is no valid excusefor missing a meal.

Big Bas
05-04-2005, 01:42 PM
add some olive oil to anything that allows it.

leanmuscle
05-04-2005, 02:04 PM
Sounds like you have an extremely high metabolism, but that's not a bad thing, especially at your age. I would just keep doing what you are doing, eat plenty of protein and try to eat every 2 hours. Personally I try staying away from too many empty calories such as sugars, etc even while bulking, I try to stay somewhat lean all year round though. It's just a pain in the ass to try burning off that unwanted fat when it comes summer time, but it doesn't sound like you are having that problem. Sounds to me though that you've got your calorie intake high, which is what you want to do, if anything up it another 500 calories a day and see where that takes you. I was always a hard gainer until I hit mid 20's and then I started taking off. Stick with it and don't get discouraged.

abman
05-04-2005, 02:12 PM
Nuts!!

galileo
05-04-2005, 02:22 PM
I tell ya, DAG oil is pretty decent and has minimal flavor. I can't stand straight olive oil, but DAG oil is very palatable.

PowerManDL
05-04-2005, 02:40 PM
No "tricks" really, but in terms of eating, I make sure to include a lot of the following:

Olive oil
Enova (DAG) oil
Coconut oil
Whole milk
Whole cheese
Natty PB
Ice Cream
Pizza
Steak
Ground beef by the lb
Loaded potatoes
Double cheeseburgers

Unholy
05-04-2005, 02:52 PM
And dont smoke any crack.

HILL
05-04-2005, 03:09 PM
shakes shakes and more shakes ive just started having 4 per day each at 900 cals 79p/81c/24f allowed ne to reach 4500cals 2day without even realising

Sc00t
05-04-2005, 04:45 PM
Is "Natty" a brand, or a style of PB?

(This is going to be like gatorade all over again lol)

If it's a brand, whats a UK equivelant?

-sc00t

getfit
05-04-2005, 04:47 PM
Is "Natty" a brand, or a style of PB?

(This is going to be like gatorade all over again lol)

If it's a brand, whats a UK equivelant?

-sc00t
natural peanut butter -roasted nuts, you'll see the oil on the top just mix it in

Built
05-04-2005, 04:47 PM
Natural. As in "no hydrogenated trans fat crap"

spencerjrus
05-04-2005, 04:48 PM
Is "Natty" a brand, or a style of PB?

(This is going to be like gatorade all over again lol)

If it's a brand, whats a UK equivelant?

-sc00t


Natty stands for natural, it simply means peanut butter made with peanuts and without hydrogenated oils.

Sc00t
05-04-2005, 04:50 PM
I'm an idiot.

"natural".

thetopdog
05-04-2005, 05:08 PM
Here's a tip, 1 gram of Carbs has 4 calories, 1 gram of protien also has 4 calories, 1 gram of fat has 9 calories. Adding some fat to your shakes in the form of olive/fish oil will really help you up the calories

fixationdarknes
05-04-2005, 06:08 PM
Peanut Butter (natural)!

CarlP
05-04-2005, 07:58 PM
Would a serving or spoonful or whatever of flax/olive oil be tasted in a big 24oz. shake with whey and milk?

wrestlemaniac
05-04-2005, 08:11 PM
And dont smoke any crack.

If this was any other website you would be banned right now for that :thumbup:

How about contributing to the website with your post instead of spamming the place up.

with that said, after reading all this thread I have to ask : you are counting these calories right?

Shao-LiN
05-04-2005, 09:12 PM
Would a serving or spoonful or whatever of flax/olive oil be tasted in a big 24oz. shake with whey and milk?

Probably not, but then again a spoonful would quickly be out of your mouth in about 1 second.

dissipate
05-05-2005, 12:09 AM
getfit: a jar a day?!?!? a huge jar??? A DAY???

getfit
05-05-2005, 02:06 AM
getfit: a jar a day?!?!? a huge jar??? A DAY???
yep!half in the afternoon and the other half at night that was it for my bulk! i did this monday to friday so 5 jars a week the jars were average size!

Progress
05-05-2005, 11:57 AM
I'm allergic to all nuts but almonds. :(

Cra-Z
05-06-2005, 07:11 AM
A jar of peanut butter a day is pretty crazy... Just with a spoon? I'm going to be bulking this summer, you think I can bulk for 2 months and cut for 1? What's a standard bulk cycle?

Progress
05-06-2005, 07:46 AM
A jar of peanut butter a day is pretty crazy... Just with a spoon? I'm going to be bulking this summer, you think I can bulk for 2 months and cut for 1? What's a standard bulk cycle?

However long it takes for you to build your desired mass. The cleaner the diet, the slower, I'd imagine. Two month bulk is what I'm on and then I'm cutting in mid-june. Hopefully I"ll be 8-10 lbs heavier, but who knows...

dissipate
05-06-2005, 07:57 AM
yep!half in the afternoon and the other half at night that was it for my bulk! i did this monday to friday so 5 jars a week the jars were average size!

yumyum. i'd do that but 1 jar adams natty costs $7!

getfit
05-06-2005, 09:10 AM
yumyum. i'd do that but 1 jar adams natty costs $7!
oh my! that's expensive i get mine for about 3.50 canadian

Cra-Z
05-06-2005, 06:37 PM
However long it takes for you to build your desired mass. The cleaner the diet, the slower, I'd imagine. Two month bulk is what I'm on and then I'm cutting in mid-june. Hopefully I"ll be 8-10 lbs heavier, but who knows...
Awesome, somebody told me they didn't think it was long enough. I've just started eating a lot like in March and I've quickly gained 10-20 lbs and I don't feel fat really.

CarlP
05-06-2005, 06:50 PM
If you don't feel fat, keep going.

Cra-Z
05-07-2005, 06:44 AM
Haha, alright then, no doubt...

J.C.
05-08-2005, 02:45 PM
Get more calories per mouthful:

i.e. To every meal you eat, add something to it. Things like: pour olive oil onto anything remotely mediterranean. Add grated cheese to stuff. Put extra cheese onto pizza. Throw some seeds into anything they'll go with. Pour cream onto your desserts. Start using peanut butter over other spreads. Make any liquid you drink, milk. To any protein shake you make, add some PB, honey or ice cream. you get the idea...

For everything you eat, think "how can I get more from this?

Mad Max
05-09-2005, 10:10 AM
A jar of peanut butter, isn't that about 3000 calories, including 2000 from fats?

Griffin98
05-09-2005, 05:14 PM
natural peanut butter -roasted nuts, you'll see the oil on the top just mix it in

Here's a tip. Just store it upside down. It doesn't dry out that way.

BossHawg02
05-09-2005, 06:09 PM
honey works pretty well too if ur allergic to nuts....

METALASIAN
05-09-2005, 07:12 PM
1 jar of Peanut Butter a day shouldn't be that hard... the stuff's magic

hardgainer169
05-10-2005, 09:03 AM
honey? isnt that basically sugar? btw, thanks for all the great replies! very interesting.

Beholder
05-10-2005, 12:00 PM
Would a serving or spoonful or whatever of flax/olive oil be tasted in a big 24oz. shake with whey and milk?
I got some 3-6-9 Omega Extra oil with teh caloritic breakdown of
260cal per 2 TBSP serving:
29g Fat:
20g Polyunsaturates
5.5g Mono saturates
3g Saturates


and I must say this stuff tastes like ****. The only time I have a pepsi/coke is chasing the 2 tbsp's of this. I tried it in a shake once and I had to throw it out, it tasted SO gross.

So from now on I use a shotglass and measure 2 tbsp into that so I only have to taste it once.

Man why cant there be good tasting fats?

Drai's
05-10-2005, 02:33 PM
A jar of peanut butter, isn't that about 3000 calories, including 2000 from fats?

Yup. So?

Unholy
05-10-2005, 02:34 PM
Yup. So?

Useless post anyone?

Drai's
05-10-2005, 03:12 PM
It wasn't useless. I answered his question, then asked one of my own.

-=HaRdGAINA=-
05-10-2005, 09:19 PM
lol

Mad Max
05-11-2005, 08:12 AM
Yup. So?

Well say you're aiming for about 4000 calories, which many people do when bulking, wouldn't it be unwise to get half of those from fats?
Also wouldn't it be unwise to get 75% of your calories from peanuts?

Drai's
05-11-2005, 08:39 AM
Well say you're aiming for about 4000 calories, which many people do when bulking, wouldn't it be unwise to get half of those from fats?
Also wouldn't it be unwise to get 75% of your calories from peanuts?

Probably not the smartest or healthiest approach, but if it's going to allow you to get your calories in then it's an option. However, I would think the people that need to be "supplementing" their diet with a jar of pb every day are those in the 6000+ calorie/day range.

Mad Max
05-11-2005, 11:14 AM
Probably not the smartest or healthiest approach, but if it's going to allow you to get your calories in then it's an option. However, I would think the people that need to be "supplementing" their diet with a jar of pb every day are those in the 6000+ calorie/day range.

You'd have to be one huge SOB to be eating 6000+ calories a day. Even half that amount is enough for most people to gain weight, if a little slowly.
I just don't think it's worth eating more than 50g of peanut butter at the most, unless you really can't get any other food.
It should be seen as a source of good fats, and, along with cheese, a way of getting those last few grams of protein, but not as one of the main parts of someone's diet.

Drai's
05-11-2005, 11:29 AM
There's lots of people on this board who need to eat that much to gain. Provided you're a half decent size and/or don't have a slow metabolism it isn't out of the question at all.

Cra-Z
05-11-2005, 03:30 PM
I eat about that right now and I'm not even bulking. Check my stats.

vypergts
05-11-2005, 03:31 PM
I couldn't help think of this simpsons quote so I had to post it cause it made me laugh, please don't take it seriously :)

Nick: Now there are many options available for dangerously
underweighted individuals like yourself. I recommend a slow
steady gorging process combined with assal horizontology.
Homer: [pensive] Of course.
Nick: [points to a chart] You'll want to focus on the neglected
food groups such as the whipped group, the congealed group
and the chocotastic!
Homer: What can I do to speed the whole thing up, Doctor?
Nick: Well...be creative. Instead of making sandwiches with
bread, use poptarts. Instead of chewing gum, chew bacon,
heh...
Bart: You could brush your teeth with milkshakes!
Dr. Nick: Hey, did you go to Hollywood Upstairs Medical College too?
And remember, if you're not sure about something, rub it
against a piece of paper. If the paper turns clear, it's
your window to weight gain. Bye bye, everybody!

Drai's
05-11-2005, 03:43 PM
lol

smalls
05-11-2005, 04:04 PM
I just don't think it's worth eating more than 50g of peanut butter at the most, unless you really can't get any other food.
It should be seen as a source of good fats, and, along with cheese, a way of getting those last few grams of protein, but not as one of the main parts of someone's diet.


Why should it bee seen as a source of good fats, yet not used as a main part of someone's diet. Do you know something about how we all react to PB that we are unaware of. I personally dont like pb enough to eat that much, but I do need over 6000 cals to gain and I'm not a huge sob.
There is no magic one way that is healhty or one way that is unhealthy. You seem to be insinuating that getting too much of one thing (PB in this case is unhealthy) but you have to look at the person and their overal dietary needs.

Mad Max
05-12-2005, 08:32 AM
Fats are of course essential in any person's diet. PB is 50% fat. I you want to bulk/are having trouble bulking, then more carbs and protein is what you should be concerned with.
I really don't understand why one would want to eat more than 50-100g of the stuff, unless they were really having trouble getting fats. Fat makes you fat, it doesn't build muscle or provide a good source of enrgy, unless your hiking across the north pole.
I think PB is overrated and people shouldn't consume too much, but that's just my advice to the original poster.

Franco
05-12-2005, 08:47 AM
Fat isn't soley responsible for making an individual gain body fat

Broken Arrow
05-12-2005, 10:16 AM
Use common sense, if you want to bulk for a waist line, than eat a jar of PB a day. If you want to bulk for overall mass, than eat a reasonable amount of 1-2 tbsp a day.

That's just stupid.

Drai's
05-12-2005, 11:15 AM
Use common sense, if you want to bulk for a waist line, than eat a jar of PB a day. If you want to bulk for overall mass, than eat a reasonable amount of 1-2 tbsp a day.

That's just stupid.

No, your post, and overconfidence in your level of knowledge with regards to bodybuilding nutrition, is stupid.

Drai's
05-12-2005, 11:16 AM
Fat makes you fat

riiiiiiiight...

You too should do some more reading before spouting off nonsense.

Mad Max
05-12-2005, 11:32 AM
Fat makes you fat


You too should do some more reading before spouting off nonsense.

Thankyou I'll take that on board; no more spouting off nonsense, and more reading.

What I meant was that eating too much fat makes you fat, which nobody can argue with. Yes I know there are saturates, unsaturates and polyunsaturates, but eating too much of any of the three main types of fat will make you fat.
I just don't see why anyone would want to get more than 20% of their total calories from fat when bulking. If you're on atkins diet then fair enough.
Even for a 6000 cal bulker, I think a jar of peanut butter a day would be pushing it as it would push your fat intake to at least 30% (including the other fat you are likely to consume from other areas of your diet), unless there is something special in PB that I am unaware of.

PowerManDL
05-12-2005, 11:34 AM
Thankyou I'll take that on board; no more spouting off nonsense, and more reading.

What I meant was that eating too much fat makes you fat, which nobody can argue with. Yes I know there are saturates, unsaturates and polyunsaturates, but eating too much of any of the three main types of fat will make you fat.
I just don't see why anyone would want to get more than 20% of their total calories from fat when bulking. If you're on atkins diet then fair enough.
Even for a 6000 cal bulker, I think a jar of peanut butter a day would be pushing it as it would push your fat intake to at least 30% (including the other fat you are likely to consume from other areas of your diet), unless there is something special in PB that I am unaware of.

Calories make you fat. It's just easier to get more calories from fats.

Mad Max
05-12-2005, 11:51 AM
Calories make you fat. It's just easier to get more calories from fats.

Ok, but the three sources of calories have different functions in the body. As far as I know, a calorie is a unit of energy in the human diet. It's a measure of human energy resources, hence fibre has no caloric value, as it can not be converted into energy for the body.
The body prefers to use carbs as its energy resource, right? If you're gonna lift weights you wanna' make sure you've eaten carbs, not fats, right? If you wanna' make sure your muscles grow, you wanna' eat protein (carbs help with the process of anabolism yes, but do not themeselves form part of muscle tissue, right?)? I'm not sure what fats do, but people say they are important, so I'll take their word for it.
So having said that, cals from fat make you fatter quicker, than cals from any other source, because they are not a favourable energy source, and can not be synthesized into muscular tissue, right?
A bb can eat more carbs and protein than fat, for the simple reason that their body needs carbs and protein more than fat. Am I right?

Drai's
05-12-2005, 11:52 AM
Calories make you fat. It's just easier to get more calories from fats.

:withstupi In addition, fats have many benefits with regards to hormone levels AND some people seem to have a difficult time processing carbs, thus making a higher fat diet more optimal for them.

Franco
05-12-2005, 12:50 PM
Learn how to manipulate your diet and you'll see just how you can accommodate a good and varied amount of fats to reach your goals

Also, your initial statement was very ambiguous. I do however see where you are trying to come from now

shansen008
05-12-2005, 01:13 PM
Ok, but the three sources of calories have different functions in the body. As far as I know, a calorie is a unit of energy in the human diet. It's a measure of human energy resources, hence fibre has no caloric value, as it can not be converted into energy for the body.
The body prefers to use carbs as its energy resource, right? If you're gonna lift weights you wanna' make sure you've eaten carbs, not fats, right? If you wanna' make sure your muscles grow, you wanna' eat protein (carbs help with the process of anabolism yes, but do not themeselves form part of muscle tissue, right?)? I'm not sure what fats do, but people say they are important, so I'll take their word for it.
So having said that, cals from fat make you fatter quicker, than cals from any other source, because they are not a favourable energy source, and can not be synthesized into muscular tissue, right?
A bb can eat more carbs and protein than fat, for the simple reason that their body needs carbs and protein more than fat. Am I right?


After i read this post, i went outside and i killed a kitten.
http://journals.jevon.org/img/user/jevon-1505-24064014698e.jpg
Please dont make me do it again...the voices...the voices.....

smalls
05-12-2005, 01:16 PM
Ok, but the three sources of calories have different functions in the body. As far as I know, a calorie is a unit of energy in the human diet. It's a measure of human energy resources, hence fibre has no caloric value, as it can not be converted into energy for the body.
The body prefers to use carbs as its energy resource, right? If you're gonna lift weights you wanna' make sure you've eaten carbs, not fats, right? If you wanna' make sure your muscles grow, you wanna' eat protein (carbs help with the process of anabolism yes, but do not themeselves form part of muscle tissue, right?)? I'm not sure what fats do, but people say they are important, so I'll take their word for it.
So having said that, cals from fat make you fatter quicker, than cals from any other source, because they are not a favourable energy source, and can not be synthesized into muscular tissue, right?
A bb can eat more carbs and protein than fat, for the simple reason that their body needs carbs and protein more than fat. Am I right?

No, your not. Many people (bodybuilders too) do not respond well to carbs, they prefer to have a higher percentage of cals coming from fat and do very well on such a diet provided their total cals are on target. You talk about carbs being anabolic, fats are anabolic too homie. Food is anabolic especially food that forms hormones, mmmm hormones. Also, how are fats not a favorable source of energy. They are not favorable in an anerobic environment, which most of the time we are NOT in.
Not everyone is the same the huge blanket statements shouldnt be made about what every bodybuilder should be doing or not doing etc.
Broken arrow, please back up your statment that eating a jar of pb is stupid and bulking should be attained with 1-2 tb of pb. Or you could always just spread your ignorance elsewhere.

Drai's
05-12-2005, 01:34 PM
The body prefers to use carbs as its energy resource, right?

Even if this statement was always true, there's a catch. The body PREFERS to use carbs as an energy source. However, the body MUST use protein to repair tissue and it MUST use fats for various hormonal purposes. So, if you want to argue about which macronutrient is the least important, I always go with carbs.

(Note: Yes, in reality they all have their place in one's diet. I just think the bad rap fat gets is unwarranted.)

TheGimp
05-12-2005, 01:46 PM
A bb can eat more carbs and protein than fat, for the simple reason that their body needs carbs and protein more than fat. Am I right?

On the contrary, as Drai's has intimated, carbs are a non-essential macronutrient. It is only relatively recently, when our ancestors made the transition from nomads to farmers that carbs have become a big part of our diet.

PowerManDL
05-12-2005, 02:03 PM
Ok, but the three sources of calories have different functions in the body. As far as I know, a calorie is a unit of energy in the human diet. It's a measure of human energy resources, hence fibre has no caloric value, as it can not be converted into energy for the body.
The body prefers to use carbs as its energy resource, right? If you're gonna lift weights you wanna' make sure you've eaten carbs, not fats, right? If you wanna' make sure your muscles grow, you wanna' eat protein (carbs help with the process of anabolism yes, but do not themeselves form part of muscle tissue, right?)? I'm not sure what fats do, but people say they are important, so I'll take their word for it.
So having said that, cals from fat make you fatter quicker, than cals from any other source, because they are not a favourable energy source, and can not be synthesized into muscular tissue, right?
A bb can eat more carbs and protein than fat, for the simple reason that their body needs carbs and protein more than fat. Am I right?

The others have already made the point, but-- we measure food in calories for a reason.

It denotes energy content.

Barring the baseline "structural" needs of the body, which are 1) adequate protein and 2) adequate essential fatty acids, it's all a matter of thermodynamics-- energy brought in the system vs. energy expended by the system.

Once you have your protein intake and your EFA intake, the rest is a matter of calorie balance.

BBar23
05-12-2005, 04:36 PM
i want to start bulking but everything goes to my stomach...i don't want to ahve this fat ass stomach in 2 months and look exactly the same everywhere else on my body...then I would have to spend the entire cutting phase working my stomach and looking exactly the way i do now(I think)any advice?

Mad Max
05-13-2005, 04:07 AM
Ok thanks for clearing that one up guys.
But why do most sources seem to recommend splitting your diet 40/40/20, with 20% coming from fats. Ultimately is it not still the case that with most people's metabolism, they simply dodn't need as much fat (essential as it is) as they do from the other macronutrients.


The others have already made the point, but-- we measure food in calories for a reason. It denotes energy content.

I hate to be pedantic, but I did say that.

Owen
05-13-2005, 05:03 AM
Im looking at a diet right now which prescribes a 40% fat-40% carbs-20% protien ratio, if you can believe that one. The creator of this diet claims that the higher fat content encourages testosterone production and quicker fat loss. Heavy and dedicated lifting absolutly required, of course, to see the benefits. After reading his book I kind of believe it, but nutrition is complicated to me...and Im no dummy...so. But Im gonna follow this diet for awhile (bulking clean), and see how it goes. Its a nine week thing and I hope to gain about a pound of muscle a week with out gaining to much 'fat'.

the one
05-13-2005, 08:52 AM
wow, are the people postin in this thread the same people that have been reading wbb for the past few years??? have you guys learned nothing about nutrition from this site (or any other source of info?)

TheGimp
05-13-2005, 10:12 AM
Im looking at a diet right now which prescribes a 40% fat-40% carbs-20% protien ratio, if you can believe that one.

Sound like some perfectly acceptable ratios to me :)

Owen
05-14-2005, 01:40 AM
Thanks Mr. Gimp :-). The menu isnt that bad when working with those ratios either, although Im not the type to care about 'taste' very much. Its a hassle really, eating that is. It be nice if there was a pill you could take six times a day instead of eating. Thats probably been said here a million times at least ha ha.

I really dont think Ill make a pound of muscle a week. As a matter of fact I read some where that you can only gain 23 pounds a year in muscle, or an ounce a day, and thats if everything is dialed in and you work all the time at it. :)

Owen
05-14-2005, 02:15 AM
Heres the link and the last paragraph:

http://www.dynamicconditioning.ca/art011a.shtml

When it comes to muscle gain there is no dramatic technique or quick fix that will allow you to pack on more muscle naturally. It’s better to stay focused and realistic by training hard, eating meticulously and spending time to recuperate properly; this will result in your achieving a more muscular physique. Keep in mind that it’s physiologically impossible to gain more than one pound of lean muscle per week. For most weight-gainers, .5 pounds per week would be an even more realistic goal as they reach their genetic limit. Remember that gaining muscle is a long-term project and not something that can be simply turned on. If you’re dedicated and diligent in your efforts, you’ll not be disappointed!

Broken Arrow
05-14-2005, 02:28 AM
No, your post, and overconfidence in your level of knowledge with regards to bodybuilding nutrition, is stupid.

Now, I want you to do a little mathematics with me. You have a small, 500 g jar of PB. For each 15 g, there is 7.5 g fat. So, 500 g / 15 g = 33 X 7.5 = 247.5 g of fat.

For every gram of fat, that equals 9 calories. Furthermore,

247.5 X 9 = 2227.5 calories from fat alone.

If you want to tell me 2227.5 calories of fat from PB alone is linked to bodybuilding nutrition, than you have to stop giving out advice.

I train with an IFBB pro, and I stand at 6'1", 244LB's, so please tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Hence, the pro I train with even says you don't know what you're talking about.

smalls
05-14-2005, 11:52 AM
First off, throwing around your stats like that is related to your knowledge is foolish. Also appealing to authority in order to gain credibility is also an extremely poor way of discussing your opinion.

You still have yet to explain how 2227.5 calories from the fat in peanut butter is a poor idea for someone who is bulking and takes in 5-7000 calories a day (which many people here do or have done, also using olive oil as a subsitute, is this a bad idea too?). How is this detrimental, my huge and all knowing friend?

This time use some type of science or at least basic common sense to discuss your idea's. There are plenty of people here much bigger than you. When your wrong, your wrong, being 244lbs doesnt change that.

Drai's
05-14-2005, 02:41 PM
Thanks smalls, I really have nothing to add to that.

d'Anconia
05-18-2005, 02:16 AM
I guess what some of the people in here are trying to say is that according to popular belief, eating fat makes someone fat. Eating protein doesn't make someone fat and carbs I suppose don't make someone as fat as eating fat does. I'm not saying this is true but it seems that most regular people (not scientists by any means, just regular Joe Schmoe on the street) believe this to be true.

So I suppose we either need this ideology completely discredited or explain how, when bulking, you can still eat a lot of fat without gaining too much body fat.

I could be wrong, and I'm a bit hesitant about trying to post on such a hostile thread, but I'm just trying to help out.

Owen
05-18-2005, 04:04 AM
Well heres some stuff, this is not my direct knowledge talking: I am also not 'selling this'; I want you smarties to tell me if its right or not lol, this diet sh** is hard IMO.

'building muscle is a two part process. the first part is adding protein to muscle, and the second is pre-venting preexisting muscle protein from being used for energy during and after weight lifting. Fat seems to play a role in the latter, preventive stage. ' the author goes on'........ researchers believed that muscle protein was being spared by the higher-fat diet because fatty acids, instead of carbs, were being used for energy ........... up until that time it was assumend -and research seemed to prove- that carbs had a bigger role in preventing protein breakdown.

In 2001 the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition tried to determine what happens when you cut fat calories without cutting total-calories. The results indicated that merely cutting the fat in you diet does not, in and of itself, produce loss of body fat. Also levels of triglycerides (a factor linked to heart-disease) in the subjects blood increased in the lower fat diet.

What do you guys think? Are those ideas supported by your experience?

MasterOfPuppets
05-18-2005, 05:53 AM
Posted by Dante (Doggcrapp) of bodybuilding.com

If i never hear these words again in my life it will be too soon. I cringe everytime i hear someone (straight from bb.com) say "im coming off a bulker and now im doing a cutter"..What the hell is that?..that is the most idiotic concept ever! So what your doing is taking 2 steps forward for 4 months and then 1.5 steps backward for 4 months and repeating over and over? Talk about a waste of valuable time! Half your freaking year is gone to hell because your cutting for half of it and gaining no muscle. How bout a novel concept for you? How bout getting dramatically larger over time with huge food (protein) intake and super heavy training but adhering to carb cuttoffs and doing cardio (for increasing hunger and keeping bodyfat at bay reasons) so that you stay lean!!!!!!!!!! Gee whiz, might that be a better way?!

Bulker: An Excuse to become a fat **** for the sake of beleiving your putting on muscle mass to others and yourself (and you probably are but at a 50/50 ratio of muscle to fat--wow thats awesome!)

Cutter: 3-5 months of wasted muscle building time (trust me youll be building very little muscle mass during this) in the quest of turning yourself back from a fat slob you turned yourself into to someone presentable.

THINK ABOUT IT!!!! Your 200lbs, eat like a 250lb guy to get freakshow bigger, and train like a rhino with heavy weights to get larger but also do everything in your power (green tea, cardio, carb cuttoffs) to keep at a bodyfat percentage that your proud of or can live with. This is all about turning your body into a muscle building fat burning blast furnace!
If you do bulking and cutting for the next 2 years and with all those "cutting cycles" adding up to a years time, guess what you just gave up a year of lifting--one year of nonexistant muscle mass accumalation. Thats like lifting for the next 6 years and you only get 3 years of productivity out of it. See the problem is, alot of people try to stay lean year round while also tryng their hardest to put on muscle mass and they do it all wrong. They eat like a 190lber trying to get to 250lbs and think that--by some miracle that will get them there. This is all about becomeing a food processing machine here. Take in a surplus (protein/food), create a demand to put on muscle (seriously heavy lifting/DC training) and then taking care of excesses and burning them off (carb cuttoffs/cardio/thermogenisis)----eating and training like a 300lbs offseason behemoth but doing everything else in your power to be that guy walking around at 7-14% bodyfat (whatever floats your boat)....See its not that hard, just think it out....but most of all dont waste your freaking time taking 2 steps forward and 1.5 steps backward....this is about constant forward progress. If I hear anyone say "cutter" or "bulker" again on this board, you get the official title of "bodybuilding.com guy", like a scarlet letter. This is constant bulking and cutting at the same time and you dont forsake one for the other unless your competing for a show.
You turn yourself into a machine and you keep that machine evolving. Does anyone in this forum actually beleive that if you are 200lbs and doing cardio 3-4x a week at 30-45 minutes a pop but eating 400-500 grams of protein and a ****load of food to get bigger that - YOUR ACTUALLY NOT GOING TO GET BIGGER BECAUSE OF THAT CARDIO? If your not getting bigger then your either not eating enough or your a young guy whose metabolism is so fast that your one of the lucky ones who doesnt have to do cardio. Thats another story I have to write about one of these days--Cardio. Every time I hear a guy tell me...."I just cant eat enough"....I ask him "are you doing cardio?", and he gives me that puzzled look and thinks "why should I do cardio? I have trouble gaining weight and eating enough".....BINGO!!!!! What do you think cardio does? You get up in the morning and start your day with some cardio I guarentee youll be starving the rest of the day and be eating like a damn horse. IT HAPPENS EVERY SINGLE TIME. Cardio is a two way street--increases hunger and keeps you lean. You have trouble getting bigger? Add cardio first thing in the morning after 30 grams of protein in water and some bcaa's and watch yourself eat the rest of the day! You wont be missing meals, youll be starving. Which leads me to getting off this computer because im starving.I wrote this very fast because im late--so sorry bout that.

Again: This is NOT MY ARTICLE!!! it was posted by Dante (Doggcrapp) of bodybuilding.com.

-MOP :D :cool:

Drai's
05-18-2005, 08:37 AM
Decent read as usual from DC, but I have to say cardio KILLS my appetite and I thought that was the same for most people.

MasterOfPuppets
05-18-2005, 03:11 PM
I do get much hungrier, but not until hours after.

-MOP :D :cool:

thajeepster
05-18-2005, 04:03 PM
cardio would give me an excuse to eat more, which would be beneficial for me, well maybe not an excuse, but will make me at least feel better about it. Youve just turned my life around MOP :D

BTW, How much cardio is good? everyday, or off days? or even just every other day? HIIT or slow and steady? Great article btw, thanks for digging it up.

Drai's
05-18-2005, 04:18 PM
BTW, How much cardio is good? everyday, or off days? or even just every other day? HIIT or slow and steady? Great article btw, thanks for digging it up.

Everyone is different, you'll have to figure it out for yourself. Just remember that HIIT takes more out of you in terms of recovery. You might be able to handle low-moderate intensity cardio 7 days/week, but treat HIIT basically like a workout.

MasterOfPuppets
05-18-2005, 07:57 PM
Everyone is different, you'll have to figure it out for yourself. Just remember that HIIT takes more out of you in terms of recovery. You might be able to handle low-moderate intensity cardio 7 days/week, but treat HIIT basically like a workout.
yes. I havetried HIIT, and disliked it because I could not do weights onthat same day. I walk home from school a mile each day, both ways, so I limit cardio to 1-2 times a week.

Cra-Z
05-19-2005, 04:39 AM
Awesome article man. I like that. I think I'm going to start doing a bit more cardio. At least when school track's over. Thanks.