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greentinted
06-09-2005, 12:21 PM
So I did some tough lifting today, and when I was done I ran a mile. After that I came home and ate a metric crapload of food. Does this mean that my body fed off my muscles during my run and my entire workout was for naught? I didnt eat a whole lot before the workout either, just a turkey sandwich.

Thanks.

drew
06-09-2005, 12:28 PM
No. Cardio after lifting is one of the preferred times to do it. Your muscles are already fatigued and you'll have less detrimental effects that way.

Junin
06-09-2005, 12:33 PM
I typically do 30 minutes of cardio BEFORE lifting. I'm pretty motivated in the gym, but my rationale is "If I don't feel like doing it before lifting, I SURE as hell won't feel like doing it after".

As to whether or not before lifting is the preferred time, I have no idea.

Progress
06-09-2005, 12:50 PM
No. Cardio after lifting is one of the preferred times to do it. Your muscles are already fatigued and you'll have less detrimental effects that way.

With the exception of relatively long sessions of cardio, right? You don't want to lift heavy and then spend 40 minutes on a cardio machine depriving your muscles of nutrients for that long.

drew
06-09-2005, 12:54 PM
Well, if you want to, lift, slam down your PWO shake, then do cardio.

darius19
06-09-2005, 12:56 PM
I would suggest doing cardio at a totaly different time in the first place. I do it after I wake up, and lift in the evenening when Im cutting.

Wannabelean
06-09-2005, 01:03 PM
Try to do it in the morning if possible. If I did cardio after a workout, it wouldn't be for longer than 20 minutes.

Built
06-09-2005, 01:19 PM
I typically do 30 minutes of cardio BEFORE lifting. I'm pretty motivated in the gym, but my rationale is "If I don't feel like doing it before lifting, I SURE as hell won't feel like doing it after".

As to whether or not before lifting is the preferred time, I have no idea.

If you do cardio before you train, you'll compromise your lifts and burn little but blood sugar (which is why you'll compromise your lifts)
The other way around helps stimulate more muscle growth and more fat loss.

Either way it's calories, but you're probably also interested in body composition.

jbarba
06-09-2005, 01:41 PM
Built,
I know that you are right on this but I also do my cardio before lifting because I sure as hell aint going to do it after. I figure cardio at not the optimal time is better than no cardio at all. Right?

twm
06-09-2005, 01:45 PM
If your goals consist of weight loss.. yes. If you are shooting for something else, probably not.

Drai's
06-09-2005, 01:46 PM
If you do cardio before you train, you'll compromise your lifts and burn little but blood sugar (which is why you'll compromise your lifts)
The other way around helps stimulate more muscle growth and more fat loss.

Either way it's calories, but you're probably also interested in body composition.

:withstupi

Drai's
06-09-2005, 01:46 PM
I know that you are right on this but I also do my cardio before lifting because I sure as hell aint going to do it after. I figure cardio at not the optimal time is better than no cardio at all. Right?

As long as you're not overly concerned with strength in your lifting sessions, it won't be that bad.

Built
06-09-2005, 01:54 PM
Actually, not so fast. There was a study published in the November 2003 (I think it was November) Men's Health that tested an athlete both ways. The result was more cals burned with cardio after, and more of those were fat cals.

Drai's
06-09-2005, 02:16 PM
Actually, not so fast. There was a study published in the November 2003 (I think it was November) Men's Health that tested an athlete both ways. The result was more cals burned with cardio after, and more of those were fat cals.

More cals from fat makes sense because less glyocogen will be available after the workout. More total cals makes no sense at all.

Unreal
06-09-2005, 02:19 PM
Maybe elevated heart rate/metabolism from lifting? I know I work up a sweat when lifting, then if I do cardio afterwards I get completely soaked/worn out.

Drai's
06-09-2005, 02:23 PM
Maybe elevated heart rate/metabolism from lifting? I know I work up a sweat when lifting, then if I do cardio afterwards I get completely soaked/worn out.

I suppose. But if you do cardio and then lift you're burning more cals during the lifting session. 6 of 1, half a dozen of the other.

Built
06-09-2005, 04:29 PM
Probably because he was able to lift more intensely.

jbarba
06-09-2005, 04:36 PM
would it be better to do no cardio at all than to do it before lifting? I am looking to cut about 8-10 lbs? Should I just do it on my off days?

Built
06-09-2005, 04:40 PM
Cutting is mostly diet, and on lower calories, it's even more important to save your energy for heavy lifting, so I'd say yes.

Drai's
06-09-2005, 06:15 PM
would it be better to do no cardio at all than to do it before lifting? I am looking to cut about 8-10 lbs? Should I just do it on my off days?

I can't understand why you won't do it after.

I'll say this though IMO:

separate sessions >>> after lifting > before lifting > no cardio at all (Sorry Built, gotta disagree with you. The calories are still burned if you do it before lifting, and that's the goal of cardio in the first place.)

Built
06-09-2005, 06:18 PM
Cardio doesn't burn that many calories, and if you do it before, you compromise your lifting, which means you compromise the anabolic response.

You can disagree all you like. I'm still right.

Built
06-09-2005, 06:32 PM
Found it!


Hit the Gym before You Hit the Road (http://www.menshealth.com/cda/article.do?site=MensHealth&channel=fitness&category=muscle.building&topic=total.body&conitem=b10a99edbbbd201099edbbbd2010cfe793cd____&page=3)

...the question of whether you should do aerobic exercise before or after weight lifting. To find an answer, we hooked a fit guy to equipment that measures calorie expenditure and reveals how many of those calories come from fat. We had him do identical combinations of aerobics and strength training on 2 different days, once doing aerobics first, once hitting the weights first. The weight workout consisted of 15 sets; the aerobic workout was 20 minutes. Here are the results.



Weights, then aerobics

Total calories burned 371

Calories of fat burned 107



Aerobics, then weights

Total calories burned 346

Calories of fat burned 66

spanky33
06-10-2005, 07:39 AM
this is kind of off the topic and my story isn't meant to take any side.
one day i wanted to see how fit i am (or i was cracked outta my mind), so i lifted HEAVY. squats, DLs, SLDLs, bench (flat and inclined), then some machines. the whole work out took like an hour and a half. then i played soccer for like an hour. then i walked for about 10 miles. let's just say i had the worst DOMS you can ever imagine in my glutes, thighs, and calves for like 3 days.

anyway, i would have to say that cardio is probably best if done totally separately from lifting. morning cardio, p.m. lifting. Or you can just walk for a while after you lift, or jog at a light pace. if it's an upper-body day, then jogging should be fine after a lift. but i still think separate is better.

or what I THINK may be the best of all. Four days of lifting, one day off between lifting days 2 and 3. That leaves 2 days of no lifting. You can do cardio on those days.

What I plan on doing starting july is something like this:

Saturday: Lower body
Sunday: Upper body
Monday: off
Tuesday: Total Body
Wednesday: HIIT
Thursday: Soccer and cardio
Friday: Soccer and cardio

My thursdays and fridays will be hypocaloric to help burn off fat for two days.
Sat-Tuesday will be Hypercaloric for anabolism
Wednesday will be maintenance (plus a bit to keep some anabolism going).

Dont know how it will work out, we'll see

Built
06-10-2005, 10:28 AM
You have just pretty much described my training. It works great for me - can't see why it wouldn't for you. :)

Drai's
06-10-2005, 10:38 AM
Cardio doesn't burn that many calories, and if you do it before, you compromise your lifting, which means you compromise the anabolic response.

You can disagree all you like. I'm still right.

If the calorie counters on the machines are anywhere near accurate, my cardio burns quite a significant number of calories. Remember that an individual's bodyweight (along with a slew of other factors) contributes to how many calories are burned. I weigh about 100 lbs more than you :).

I still don't think it's intelligent to do cardio before lifting, given that cardio after lifting is better and the two take the exact same amount of time out of your day.

Built
06-10-2005, 10:42 AM
100 lbs! My WORD you're a big boy!

Pix? :)

Drai's
06-10-2005, 10:45 AM
Pix? :)

I don't even take pics, nevermind post them tuttut

Built
06-10-2005, 10:46 AM
Tease!

spanky33
06-10-2005, 11:58 AM
hey built, you say my routine is like yours. i'm still going through the little details to maximize anabolism and still have enough space for some fat burning. i'm not sure what to do for my wednesday in terms of diet. maintenance or below or above?

Built
06-10-2005, 12:15 PM
Spanky - I'll send you a PM.

AllUp
06-10-2005, 12:27 PM
would it be better to do no cardio at all than to do it before lifting?
Yes, you're better off utilizing calories via weight training opposed to cardio.
By doing cardio first, you're gimping your lifts. This seems a bit counter-productive IMHO. Lifting first, you end up burning calories for a longer duration as your body has to fix all it's s***(laymans terms), all while gaining strength and improving form, as well as lifting more per rep/set(than if you were to do cardio first).

Lifting before cardio FTW! :D

bigsethmeister
06-10-2005, 02:02 PM
My thursdays and fridays will be hypocaloric to help burn off fat for two days.
Sat-Tuesday will be Hypercaloric for anabolism
Wednesday will be maintenance (plus a bit to keep some anabolism going).

Dont know how it will work out, we'll see

Interesting. You know I actually do something similar to this - I don't lift on Sat and Sunday and I tend to eat a little less and get cardio (biking, kayaking, hiking etc), assuming that mebbe my body will use those days to burn a little bit of fat. On the other days I am concentrating on gaining.

I think it works.

Reinvented
06-10-2005, 02:46 PM
machines are waaaaaaaaaay off from what i understand about them..........

spanky33
06-11-2005, 06:48 AM
Interesting. You know I actually do something similar to this - I don't lift on Sat and Sunday and I tend to eat a little less and get cardio (biking, kayaking, hiking etc), assuming that mebbe my body will use those days to burn a little bit of fat. On the other days I am concentrating on gaining.

I think it works.

I'm glad to hear it works well. I plan on doing that in July. For now, I'm kind of actually doing the exact opposite. Hypocaloric for 5 days, and 2 days of maintenance or slightly higher, with lifting HEAVY.

Using this, I've lost 4 lbs fat and have actually gained 1.5 lbs LMB in 4 weeks. I'm happy with that.

My theory is that after 5 days of cutting, my maintenance level drops a bit (metabolic adjustment), so by eating at maintenance on saturday, i'm really by default eating a bit more than maintenance, giving room to grow.
anyway, just my two cents.
peace