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i_man45
06-14-2005, 10:09 PM
Hi, ive been trying to cut, and i seem to have hit a never ending plateau. Im around 5'8 in height, and not really fat, but not really lean either. I began using slimfast for a few weeks, and also treadmilled in the morning. I went from 146 lbs to a consistent 138, but now i seem to have stopped. I ususally treadmill in the morning for about 20 mins and lose around 250-280 cals, and have an orange, or a slimfast drink, then go to school, and have another slimfast for lunch. At dinner i usually eat an average size dinner consisting of all the food groups, but for some reason my weight has remained the same for about 2 weeks or more. In the morning my weight is around 135, but by bedtime around 138. My goal weight is around 120-125, and i was just wondering, HOW DO I GET OFF THIS DAMNED PLATEAU!

Shao-LiN
06-14-2005, 10:23 PM
Slim fast diet sucks. Basically it tricks you into thinking that the slim fast stuff is doing something special...it's just a way of cutting calories, but, as far as slim fast diets are concerned, you are potentially over-cutting the calories.

My advice, find your maintenance caloric level, eat at that for 2 weeks, then start cutting calories down by 200 until you are losing weight at a comfortable level.

Next thing, you actually want to be 120-125? I imagine you are a stick. I remember when I was 5'8 140, and I was extremely skinny.

i_man45
06-14-2005, 10:50 PM
im 137-138, and i wanna be cut, right now i have a gut and that is holding me back from a 6-pack. I am trying to lose weight to decrease my body fat so that way i can continue working out, and see more results. I am tired of having a gut, and really want to lose it

abwowang
06-15-2005, 12:05 AM
its easier to build when u have some fat on ya..

spencerjrus
06-15-2005, 01:24 AM
im 137-138, and i wanna be cut, right now i have a gut and that is holding me back from a 6-pack. I am trying to lose weight to decrease my body fat so that way i can continue working out, and see more results. I am tired of having a gut, and really want to lose it


You've def got some room to build on your frame.

smalls
06-15-2005, 01:48 AM
Your on a bodybuilding site, eat some ****in protein bro. How much muscle do you wanna lose in order to get to 125? Basically you need to eat less and move more in order to continue losing weight. But if you wanna lose fat and not muscle you need to change your diet. There is info all over this board, search this section. All the answers are right here.

Drai's
06-15-2005, 09:09 AM
Being cut doesn't look good if it means being emaciated.

I agree with smalls. Eat more protein and do a search.

galileo
06-15-2005, 11:12 AM
its easier to build when u have some fat on ya..

That's not true.

drew
06-15-2005, 11:19 AM
Man, I'm down to 185 and I feel skinny as all hell.

Drai's
06-15-2005, 01:14 PM
That's not true.

Good point. Missed that one entirely. Fat doesn't help build muscle.

Drai's
06-15-2005, 01:15 PM
Man, I'm down to 185 and I feel skinny as all hell.

At 5'6 that's definitely not skinny bro. Now at 6', yes it's skinny.

galileo
06-15-2005, 02:04 PM
Good point. Missed that one entirely. Fat doesn't help build muscle.

Right. It's quite the opposite from what I've read. There are a few studies that show that people who are leaner gain muscle at a better ratio than those who are carrying excess fat (I believe <10% was the target). That could very well be skewed because leaner people often tend to partition better, but it certainly contradicts the original poster's premise. I think the reason people may feel like fat helps is because fatter people gain muscle easier because of slower metabolisms and the fat layer makes you look bigger in clothing.

Tony G
06-15-2005, 02:22 PM
My advice? You weigh 135-140 lbs. You're not going to have a six pack if you have little to no muscle to work with. I'm not saying you need to bulk, but eating ~maintenance would do you good and tweak your training. I can only assume that you do little to no strength training (I could be wrong, but call it intuition). Enough with the long, drawn out steady state cardio sessions. Lift big, eat to support your training, perform 1-2 HIIT sessions per week, repeat. Everything will fall into place.

Matter of fact, I recind my statement. You should bulk. There are ways to be a non-idiot about it and reduce fat gain. Besides, adding some weight/fat will definitely make it easier to diet down later on down the road.

Drai's
06-15-2005, 02:22 PM
There are a few studies that show that people who are leaner gain muscle at a better ratio than those who are carrying excess fat (I believe <10% was the target). That could very well be skewed because leaner people often tend to partition better, but it certainly contradicts the original poster's premise. I think the reason people may feel like fat helps is because fatter people gain muscle easier because of slower metabolisms and the fat layer makes you look bigger in clothing.

I've also heard of those studies and agree with everything in your post.

Maybe one day I'll actually get to sub-10% and get to try for myself :(.

Drai's
06-15-2005, 02:25 PM
You're not going to have a six pack if you have little to no muscle to work with.

Everyone has abs. Whether they're visible or not is a different story.


Besides, adding some weight/fat will definitely make it easier to diet down later on down the road.

:confused:

Adding some fat will make him HAVE to diet down later on, it won't make it any easier though...

ZDrax
06-15-2005, 04:29 PM
Body composition can be altered just by eating clean. He's fat because of slim fast. His body isn't prioritizing muscle growth, and is having to cope with suboptimal calories. Slim Fast, in many ways, is dietary displacement - you're undernourished relative to your overall caloric intake. Read Massive Eating by Berardi (in the Articles section of this website), and eat at maintenance for two weeks. Evaluate your results and make adjustments. I'd wouldn't be surprised if, thanks to simply injecting some positive nutrient consumption into your daily diet, you start losing fat and putting on muscle at maintenance.

smalls
06-15-2005, 10:11 PM
Body composition can be altered just by eating clean. He's fat because of slim fast. His body isn't prioritizing muscle growth, and is having to cope with suboptimal calories. Slim Fast, in many ways, is dietary displacement - you're undernourished relative to your overall caloric intake. Read Massive Eating by Berardi (in the Articles section of this website), and eat at maintenance for two weeks. Evaluate your results and make adjustments. I'd wouldn't be surprised if, thanks to simply injecting some positive nutrient consumption into your daily diet, you start losing fat and putting on muscle at maintenance.

LOL, How long have you been in the iron game homie? "Body composition can be altered just by eating clean" By who? Everyone? I think not.
By how much? For how long?

Body composition can be altered drastically by putting on large amounts of muscle and/or losing lots of fat. Which takes lot of time and lots of calories, or lots of time and very few calories.

This guy is not fat due to slim fast, based on his progress thus far, that statement directly conflicts the basic laws of thermodynamics.

pinky8713
06-15-2005, 11:17 PM
I agree with most other people here. Hey, if you want to cut, that's your decision. I used to be 5'9 130 and i will never ever go anywhere near that again. I'm 5'9 155 now and i'm too skinny. You should really bulk man and get a decent ammount of muscle on ya and then cut, and you'll be a lot happier then. Not to mention, even though everybody has a six pack, i'm willing to bet your six pack isn't anything near special so what's the point? Suck it up ;)

Just my .02

ZDrax
06-16-2005, 12:42 AM
LOL, How long have you been in the iron game homie? "Body composition can be altered just by eating clean" By who? Everyone? I think not.
By how much? For how long?

Body composition can be altered drastically by putting on large amounts of muscle and/or losing lots of fat. Which takes lot of time and lots of calories, or lots of time and very few calories.

This guy is not fat due to slim fast, based on his progress thus far, that statement directly conflicts the basic laws of thermodynamics.

Let me rephrase. A lot of times people get too caught up in the calorie counting process. If you lift heavy, eat consistently, and eat "well" or "clean" (good body building foods), your body composition will be altered, reflecting the sort of fuel and stimulus you provide it.

No he's not fat from drinking Slim Fast, but I would argue it's actively hurting his goals. If someone is consuming 2500kcal of good bodybuilding foods a day, vs. someone consuming 1500kcal of Slim Fast or generic, store "diet" foods, I'd put all my money on the 2500kcal guy that he will be leaner and stronger than the Slim Fast guy.

Yes the laws of thermodynamics do play a part, but proper nutrient timing coupled with a good macronutrient balance shifts the thermodynamic balance significantly in your favor.

Check out this article for more info - http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=628588.

smalls
06-16-2005, 01:37 AM
Let me rephrase. A lot of times people get too caught up in the calorie counting process. If you lift heavy, eat consistently, and eat "well" or "clean" (good body building foods), your body composition will be altered, reflecting the sort of fuel and stimulus you provide it.


If we are talking about significant differences (noticable) I disagree 100%. If you are very overweight 25%BF+ and untrained then what you say holds true to a certain extent and only for a limited time period. If you can drastically change your physique by doing nothing but lifting clean and eating heavy then I want your genetics, cuz i've never seen anyone do it.



No he's not fat from drinking Slim Fast, but I would argue it's actively hurting his goals. If someone is consuming 2500kcal of good bodybuilding foods a day, vs. someone consuming 1500kcal of Slim Fast or generic, store "diet" foods, I'd put all my money on the 2500kcal guy that he will be leaner and stronger than the Slim Fast guy.

Yes the laws of thermodynamics do play a part, but proper nutrient timing coupled with a good macronutrient balance shifts the thermodynamic balance significantly in your favor.

Check out this article for more info - http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=628588.[/QUOTE]



Articles like this are one of the reasons 95% of the people in the gym look the same year after year. They think there is an easier way. As long as I get in lots of protein and eat clean my lifting will result in consistent increases in muscle and strength gains, dont we wish. But for the far majority of us that's not the way it work. We have to ****in gorge ourselves on 5000+ cals to put on any kind of muscle or we have to starve ourselves for long periods of time to see significant fat loss. The calorie is king, trying to get around that is a good way to fail in this game.

It sounds nice on paper but it just isnt that easy.

pinky8713
06-16-2005, 01:47 AM
It's freaking late, and i need sleep so i didn't even read all the stuff you guys wrote except for smalls' last paragraph. I agree, the calorie is king. One of my buddies has worked out for 1 1/2 years now and he's exactly the same as he was when he started. He chugs a bunch of whey protein drinks a day. He gets plenty of protein from that. He hasn't gotten anywhere in 1 1/2 years because he eats like a bird and doesn't get anywhere near enough calories.

pinky8713
06-16-2005, 01:50 AM
Let me rephrase. A lot of times people get too caught up in the calorie counting process. If you lift heavy, eat consistently, and eat "well" or "clean" (good body building foods), your body composition will be altered, reflecting the sort of fuel and stimulus you provide it.

But, for a lot of people that are like me...I HAVE to count calories. I'll eat nowhere near enough to gain if i don't count. If i just say screw counting calories and i just try to eat more than usual...i won't be anywhere near close. I think getting "too caught up in the whole calorie counting process" is a good thing and neccessary for a lot of people...

Tony G
06-16-2005, 08:31 AM
Everyone has abs. Whether they're visible or not is a different story.



:confused:

Adding some fat will make him HAVE to diet down later on, it won't make it any easier though...

Should have stated that differently. It's not that adding FAT will make it easier per se, but rather adding weight (which invariably will result in some added fat mass) will make it easier to diet down due to the increased metabolic rate

Drai's
06-16-2005, 08:48 AM
Articles like this are one of the reasons 95% of the people in the gym look the same year after year. They think there is an easier way. As long as I get in lots of protein and eat clean my lifting will result in consistent increases in muscle and strength gains, dont we wish. But for the far majority of us that's not the way it work. We have to ****in gorge ourselves on 5000+ cals to put on any kind of muscle or we have to starve ourselves for long periods of time to see significant fat loss. The calorie is king, trying to get around that is a good way to fail in this game.

It sounds nice on paper but it just isnt that easy.

Totally agree here. The only way to make DRASTIC changes in one's physique is to incorporate DRASTIC eating measures...that or spend 15 years trying to reach your goal.

Eating clean, combined with a regular gym regimen, is a healthy lifestyle so if that's what you're after by all means go for it. If you want to be big and muscular you absolutely have to pay close attention to your diet; it's the most important thing in bodybuilding by far.


Should have stated that differently. It's not that adding FAT will make it easier per se, but rather adding weight (which invariably will result in some added fat mass) will make it easier to diet down due to the increased metabolic rate

I'm pretty sure fat mass does not add to your basal metabolic rate, only lean body mass does.

Tony G
06-16-2005, 10:33 AM
Yes, you're right.....which is why I rephrased my previous statement to say that it wasn't fat, but increased weight that will aid in dieting down later on. It's pretty safe to assume that fat mass is going to be added in most (if not all) bulking cycles. He needs to learn to accept that he will more than likely get a little "fat".....know what I mean?

On an aside, I couldn't agree more with the whole premise of eating big to get big. If you're not providing the calories to grow, then you're going to be hard pressed to add on any weight.

Totally agree here. The only way to make DRASTIC changes in one's physique is to incorporate DRASTIC eating measures...that or spend 15 years trying to reach your goal.

Eating clean, combined with a regular gym regimen, is a healthy lifestyle so if that's what you're after by all means go for it. If you want to be big and muscular you absolutely have to pay close attention to your diet; it's the most important thing in bodybuilding by far.



I'm pretty sure fat mass does not add to your basal metabolic rate, only lean body mass does.

Drai's
06-16-2005, 10:43 AM
know what I mean?

Yup. Took longer than it should, but I hear ya now :).