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Geeper
06-28-2005, 09:05 AM
A lot of mention is given to pre and post workout meals.... What about pre and post cardio meals or snacks???

I've been thinkning about this one. Maybe high carb right before? But then wouldn't your body use that instead of your fat? Shake right after? Your body is working hard and a shake might keep it from going after your muscles for energy?

Hum.... Thoughts anyone??

Built
06-28-2005, 01:07 PM
Depends if it's intervals or steady state, and depends if it's for endurance, or for fat burning.

For endurance, carbs are good before.

For HIIT, feed it like lifting.

For fat burning, if you're doing steady state, do it empty or after you lift.

ddegroff
06-29-2005, 05:00 PM
I would need a little more info. Like are you trying to lose or gain weight?

Fat loss: Don't eat for atleast 2 hours before cardio and wait an hour after to eat.
Bulking: i would eat before and after because you have to make up for the used cals.

Manveet
06-29-2005, 09:20 PM
Depends on your goals, but here's a nice protocol laid out by Lyle on stubborn fat mobilization:


Getting rid of stubborn bodyfat - by Lyle McDonald

Without going into the brutally long and complicated mental computations that led me to this (and I'm still working on the overall scheme), here's my current thoughts on how to approach it.

First and foremost, this is one of the places where morning/pre-breakfast cardio is probably crucially important.

An hour or two before cardio, take 200 mg caffeine with 1-3 grams of L-tyrosine (NO ephedrine).

There are two segments to the cardio:

- The first segment is for mobilization, to get those stubborn fatty acids out of the fat cell.
- The second segment is the oxidation part, to burn them off in the muscle.

For the first segment of the cardio, use a machine that you don't normally use. So if you normally do the treadmill, do the first segment on the stairmaster or bike or something. Just make it different.

First segment:
warmup: 3-5 minutes
go hard: 5-10 minutes. I mean hard, as hard as you can stand for the entire time. This will NOT be fun on lowered blood glucose. I've considered putting intervals here but haven't found the data I need to make up my mind. If you do intervals, go something like 5X1' all out with a 1' break (10' total intervals)

Rest 5', just sit on your butt, drink water, try not to puke.

Go to your normal cardio machine. Do at least 30 minutes at moderate/high moderate intensity (below lactate threshold but decent intensity). I'd say 45' maximum here but I'm still making up my mind and looking at data.

Go home, and wait and hour before having a small protein meal (25-50 grams or so). No dietary fat. 2-3 hours later, go back to normal diet eating. Your daily calories shouldn't be any different than they were already, they are just distributed differently, you only have 100-200 immediately after cardio, and then the rest afterwards.

I'd do that maybe 3 days per week to start, and see what happens.

Why this works

To get stubborn fat mobilized, you have to overcome a fairly severe resistance in terms of both blood flow and lipolysis, this requires very high concentrations of catecholamines (adrenaline/noradrenaline). Sadly, jacking up levels of catecholamines (necessary for mobilization) limits burning in the muscle which is why you follow the high intensity with low intensity.

Basically, you jack up levels to get the fat mobilized, and then let them fall so that the fatty acid can be burned in the muscle.

I have a study showing that Ephedrine before intense activity lowers the catecholamine response, that's the reason for avoiding it. Studies also show a lower than normal catecholamine response as people adapt to a given type of cardio; doing a different machine will result in a higher catecholamine response than you'd other wise get.

The bigger problem with stubborn fat has to do with:

- Blood flow to the fat cells: which is typically very low, odds are your butt is cold to the touch compared to other areas of your body
- It's harder to mobilize: both because of impaired blood flow, and because of adrenoceptor issues.

Oral yohimbe (0.2 mg/kg) can be effective when used over the long term. Don't take it within 3-4 hours of taking ephedrine, and start with a half-dose to assess tolerance (some people get really freaky responses from it). IF you can find pharmaceutical yohimbine, it's far far better than the herbal version (and most of the herbal versions are crap, the only one I trust is Twinlab Yohimbe Fuel).

Taking the yohimbe with caffeine prior to morning cardio does seem to help with very stubborn fat.



I've been kicking around the idea of shortening the intervals. Instead of 30-60 seconds, 10-15 seconds with a longer rest (50-45 seconds) to avoid lactate accumulation. Singular guinea pig reported more tingling using shorter intervals.

Also, no need to wait an hour to eat afterwards.

ddegroff
06-29-2005, 10:01 PM
Sounds like he has done his research. I lost 30lbs doing 20 mins running, 2 mins warm up, then the rest 1 min intervals increasing each minute for 4 minutes then dropping down the intensity and starting over where you started 4 mins ago. the 18th min i go as hard as i can then the last minute i cool down. worked really well for me (key word for me).

Shao-LiN
06-29-2005, 10:40 PM
Sounds like he has done his research.

Yah, Lyle has been known to do that =P.