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View Full Version : Q about excess cal's.. (Built chime in!)



Woodward
06-30-2005, 04:00 PM
In the last year, I dropped 60 lbs, by dialing in my diet, with no cardio, and just lifting. I am very happy with how far I've come. I have definately gained muscle mass, while dropping the weight. I'll get to the point though. I keep putting off a bulking diet. I keep thinking that if I eat way more calories, I will start to gain weight back, and lose definition I have gained. I can do a very clean bulking diet with no problem, but I'm still a bit paranoid. If I am eating in excess of my maint. calories, specifically much more from protein, does the weight I gain all go to lbm? (Roughly 60/20/20 p/f/c) I am now doing Mike Mentzer's H.I.T. and lifting 3 times a week with alot more weight, and less reps. I have always been told that extra calories are stored energy, and it turns to fat, but if it's extra protein cals, will any of that go to fat? Hope this makes some sense. Thanks guys and gals.

fixationdarknes
06-30-2005, 04:04 PM
To put it simply, excess calories will always turn into fat. You could do just a little bit over maintenance calories and put on a bit of fat, but at the same time you wouldn't gain as much mass.

And may I ask why your carbs and fat are particularly low compared to your protein? Carbs and fat are just as important!

spanky33
06-30-2005, 05:05 PM
the thing to realize is that if you eat excess calories, you will put on some fat. if you eat a high protein diet, the protein probably would not be stored as fat; HOWEVER, it will be used for energy, leaving the fat/carbs in your diet to be stored as fat. i hope that makes sense. i'll try to illustrate with an example:

lets say maintenance is 2500. Let's say you eat 3000. Let's say it's a high protein diet (and since you broke it down as 60/20/20, we'll use that). So 1800 cals are coming from protein. 600 from carbs. 600 from fat. Now, the body wont say 'oh, so since the extra cals are protein, i wont get fat.'
What your body will probably do is use the 1800 cals from protein, plus the 600 from carbs (=2400), plus 100 from fat to meet your daily 2500 cals. That leaves an extra 500 cals of fat, which are easily stored as fat. The reason why your body would leave fat for last is because it is so efficient at storing fat as fat (compared to carbs or protein as fat).

So now you're thinking: oh, so if i eat only carbs and protein and no fat, i wont store any fat. Seems like a good idea at first, but there are so many problems with this. 1) you need fat. 2) you can't avoid it altogether. 3) you'll increases LPL in your body, making it easy to store carbs as fat.

Anyway, in the end, it doesn't really matter what your macro breakdown is. if you eat too much, you'll store fat.
There are other issues such as the thermic effects of food, etc...but in the end, excess calories = fat.

But hey, that's what cutting is for.

Built
06-30-2005, 05:15 PM
Protein can be broken down into glucose (and other products), and unused glucose can be stored as fat.

Take in more calories than you expend, you'll gain weight.

Take in more calories than you convert into muscle, and you'll put on fat.

Woodward
07-01-2005, 11:37 AM
So if I was eating 40/30/30 p/f/c at or just below my maint. calories, like I did this past year, wouldn't that mean that I wouldn't have been able to gain weight in regards to lbm? Thanks for the replies.. It's starting to make sense.

Built
07-01-2005, 02:26 PM
The ratios mean EXACTLY nothing.

bigsethmeister
07-01-2005, 02:39 PM
In my experience when my calories are above maintenance and I'm bulking its almost inevitable that I'll regain some fat. It sucks but when you cut again it is all worth it.

Manveet
07-01-2005, 03:24 PM
If you want an example of to do a lean bulk, look up aka23's journal in the member's journal section. Take special note of how he increased is calories very slowly over time.

Woodward
07-01-2005, 04:00 PM
So Built, if the ratios mean nothing, do you aim for your grams of protein per day? (I know you've said you're aorund 200g a day). Manveet thanks I'll look it up.

fixationdarknes
07-01-2005, 04:05 PM
I know you asked Built, but I'll also try to throw in what I know. For protein, I just try to get at very minimum 1x my weight...but I'm usually at 1.5x. And I try to usually not have too much more fat % than my protein %...the rest goes to carbs.

shansen008
07-01-2005, 04:17 PM
protein = essential, fat = essential, carbs = non essential. Throw them in moderately, increase them on days you know your activity level will be high. That is my general rule. I dont have a problem with energy levels, and im dropping weight like crazy while retaining size and strength. Your mileage may vary of course.

Edit: p/f/c for me looks like this most of the time + or - a few points 40/30/30, fat is never below 30%. If i vary at all its usually between C and P...like 50/20/30.

A bran muffin every now and then doesnt hurt when youre on this type of diet FYI :zipit:

Built
07-01-2005, 04:27 PM
For protein, I do the same as fixation - about 1.something grams per pound bodyweight. Carbs targeted around my lifts, fats to make up the calories otherwise.

My "ratios" sometimes come out to something like 40-50% protein, 10-20% carb, the rest from fat (yes, sometimes fats are 50% of cals, especially during a cut). But those are MY ratios. And they're not something I aim for - it's just how it usually works out.

fierce
07-01-2005, 04:35 PM
try just eating 200 calories over your mantenance level on the days which you work out..

I have the same problem as you... When I was gaining a lot of strength and muscle, I was also gaining a bit of fat... The only way for me was really slow and steady. When I wanted to eat a lot to get bigger faster, I just starte to look worse and worse (fat covering muscles)

Built
07-01-2005, 04:44 PM
I have to bulk as slow as I cut - it's the only way I can avoid dropping too much muscle (cutting slow) and putting on too much fat (bulking slow).

Fierce, I like that suggestion. For me, those extra cals would be in the form of starchy carbohydrate, since it's the only time when I'm really going to use it.

galileo
07-01-2005, 07:21 PM
To put it simply, excess calories will always turn into fat.

Riiiight...

Spartan936
07-01-2005, 07:25 PM
[QUOTE=fixationdarknes]To put it simply, excess calories will always turn into fat. [QUOTE]

Or muscle or poo.

Carbs non-essential? Show me some proof. Granted, we don't need many, but none?

galileo
07-01-2005, 07:38 PM
Or muscle or poo.

Carbs non-essential? Show me some proof. Granted, we don't need many, but none?

Muscle, yes. Poo, no.

Carbs are non-essential. The body can make glucose from amino acids and in extreme cases certain fats can be converted. Some tissues such as your eyes, if I recall, require glucose to work, which is likely why your body can adapt in such a way. Essential by definition means that they can't be reproduced by your body.